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DTitanFan

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Reply with quote  #61 
Agreed AustinSoftball, the League, is much better for it and having followed the league for a long time, I'm thrilled to see it. It has been a long time coming, in my opinion, and it certainly makes it exciting for fans like you and me. I hope the League continues to grow and improve and enjoy increased visibility and respect. There certainly is talent that is worthy of it. Maybe someday, as teams in the League continue to up the difficulty of their non-conference schedules (as many in the League have done and continue to do), an at-large bid to the tournament will come into play. (I know that is still a long way off... but I for one would love to see it happen.) It is great to see teams go out and put up some competitive efforts with top tier programs. Enjoy the next few weeks of Ivy play. (p.s how great is it to now have all the games on the ILDN?)

Daddylawman

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Reply with quote  #62 
Not disagreeing with any of you, but as long as the narrative is "no scholarships" the Ivy League will struggle.  Of course we know the irony is that most girls are not getting a lot of money at any D1 school.  Further, given the Ivy endowments and the (wonderfully) lenient definition of "need based" I think it's surprising how little out of pocket difference there would be for many folks.  I personally know a girl at an SEC school paying only $1,000 less per year than had she taken the Ivy aid package she was offered.
Let's face it, we all get caught up in the game, but these girls are set up for what comes after.

Yes, it's fun seeing them be competitive.  Don't forget we will have a team in the NIT this year too, so 25% of the league will play postseason.
Hookedonsball

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Reply with quote  #63 
Wait what NIT? In softball?
sftbll4ever

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookedonsball
Wait what NIT? In softball?


Triple Crown has decided to run the newly introduced NIT post season tournament for softball.

This was approved years ago, but there was no sanctioning body that wanted to move forward with it.  It was announced by Triple Crown this year that they would be starting it this post season.

https://cwsplacesoftball.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/nit-like-softball-tournament/

http://www.womensnisc.com/
AustinSoftball

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Reply with quote  #65 
Ivys need to do a better job of educating athletes that need based money is generous and that it does not depend upon the student playing the sport all 4 years.  So many of our friends had players who went to the power conference teams and had their scholarships reduced or cut, or received little money at all.  Ivy coaches need to develop relationships with the power select coaches and let them know if they have a smart player with strong scores, they need to consider the stronger academic schools.  The benefits are plentiful and there are many smart young females out there who can receive a great financial package.
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #66 
Yeah I have to agree with Austin post 60 and 65. The level of Ivy commitment to the sport has changed greatly in the last ten years. Dartmouth used to play in the corner of a city park with little to no bleachers. You wouldn't believe where Brown played. Now they have new stadiums. Before the last decade I did not see nearly the level of effort in terms of recruiting and scouting I see now. Now they are all busting it. We saw each of them multiple times last year in Colorado. Except for one unnamed school. Not sure why because she was there. (Pitched our 33 ACT kid to her in a bar one night [smile], now that same kid is going to hurt her four games per year [wink]) Sure Harvard was a quality exception but how hard should it be to recruit kids or coaches to Harvard? Having said that, Allard does a great job. Coach Blood was also great. Still, at some of the Ivy schools it was a job you could coast and do ok. Not so much anymore. I think pretty much all the schools have coaches with a fire in their belly now. Look at the resumes of the current Dartmouth coaches and you get some idea of the commitment that school makes to women's sports.
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drivemyjeep

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Reply with quote  #67 
Pitching a player in a bar? No wonder the coach didn't bite! [thumb]
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #68 
She thought it was funny. I was sitting with people she knew. When I was introduced, instead of "nice to meet you", it was "We have a 33". She laughed and we traded cards.
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Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddylawman
Not disagreeing with any of you, but as long as the narrative is "no scholarships" the Ivy League will struggle.

Agreed. At least as big an issue though is, the Ivy coaches can only recruit from a small subset of the players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddylawman
 Of course we know the irony is that most girls are not getting a lot of money at any D1 school.  Further, given the Ivy endowments and the (wonderfully) lenient definition of "need based" I think it's surprising how little out of pocket difference there would be for many folks.  I personally know a girl at an SEC school paying only $1,000 less per year than had she taken the Ivy aid package she was offered.
Exactly true for many. I've preached for fifteen years "Your kid may go to (name your expensive private school) cheaper than she goes to State U depending on your finances, her athletic ability and her academics. You don't know till you hear back from financial aid. Unless your kid is getting that true full athletic ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddylawman
Let's face it, we all get caught up in the game, but these girls are set up for what comes after.


Yep

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Mark H
drivemyjeep

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H
She thought it was funny. I was sitting with people she knew. When I was introduced, instead of "nice to meet you", it was "We have a 33". She laughed and we traded cards.



I'm sure it was a funny moment... I wonder if that's a common opening line to an Ivy coach! [smile]
DDG

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Reply with quote  #71 

I can attest to the lack of information about financial opportunities provided during the recruiting process, at least 5 years ago. 

At no time did we get anything other than “… has a generous financial aid program...”. We had no clue how that would translate into real world costs.  I know everything is “needs based”. But coaches should have a way to communicate how that actually impacts a player’s finances.  There are also other resources available, like low cost parent loans (less than 1.5% for the past 5 years).  We had to discover all of this on our own. Fortunately, it was in time to realize us common folk could actually afford an Ivy education for our kid.

My kid graduated in June (STEM degree), is working in her field making OK first year money (mid $70k range).  Zero debt.  She will tell you, it was the best experience of her life – education and athletics. She would not have traded it for any other opportunity.  And it may not have happened, if we didn't dig into the options on our own.

DTitanFan

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinSoftball
Ivys need to do a better job of educating athletes that need based money is generous and that it does not depend upon the student playing the sport all 4 years.  So many of our friends had players who went to the power conference teams and had their scholarships reduced or cut, or received little money at all.  Ivy coaches need to develop relationships with the power select coaches and let them know if they have a smart player with strong scores, they need to consider the stronger academic schools.  The benefits are plentiful and there are many smart young females out there who can receive a great financial package.


The enormous pressure to "commit" early and focus on "getting a scholarship" more often than not take athletes out of the pool before the Ivies even have a chance to discuss the financial packages and opportunities they have to offer. (Point of fact, if an Ivy coach were to recruit SAs from below the SES  defined by, say Princeton or Harvard to qualify for tuition-free status, in effect that coach could have a team full of athletes on what effectively would be "full-rides" - well over the 12 scholarships that the NCAA currently allows. What an advantage that could be... )

The Ivy coaches in softball (and other sports) ARE out there speaking with "power select" coaches about the benefits of an Ivy education AND the financial packages they have to offer (do you really think they aren't?). I would like to see the travel ball coaches - particularly the "power select" coaches that have talented players with strong grades  - do a better job of listening to what the Ivy coaches are (and have been) telling them regarding the opportunities that they have to offer.  

The real issue has been, and continues to be, the state of the recruiting environment - the pressure to get a scholarship and commit early - in addition to the tendency of the "power select" program's need to market how many of their players are committed, highlighting the scholarship programs they are attending, in order to attract and retain talent. This isn't just an issue in softball - you see similar situations in soccer, lacrosse, basketball.  

Parents and "power select" coaches alike just hear "no athletic scholarships," see the price tag of tuition (not to mention the delayed recruiting timeline due to coaches having to get junior year grades, scores, working with admissions) ... and they simply dismiss it, no matter what an Ivy coach or the Ivy League puts out there. 

AustinSoftball

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Reply with quote  #73 
I agree that many of the top coaches on select teams do not do a good job in listening to the Ivy benefits.  For some reason they think they get more credit for placing a player in a program closer to home.  Many of them could not name more than 4-5 Ivy school names.  Parents have to be proactive in considering the strength of school as well as the program.  We got most of our information from one summer camp after sophomore year.  The Harvard camp impressed upon our DD the opportunities that these schools provide their student athletes and provided a roadmap on how to get the interest from these programs.  

The timing will always be an issue, but given the high bar on admission standards most people can understand why these schools cannot offer freshman and sophomores.
Unregistered
Reply with quote  #74 
very big weekend coming up as the teams enter divisional play.

Penn/ Princeton:  battle of the top 2 teams in the south.. can Penn get some help for Sargent in game 2?  Can Princeton continue to tear the cover off the ball?  Should be a great series.

Cornell/ Columbia:  can Columbia recover after a tough weekend last week?  Again, can they get something from #2 pitcher?

Brown/ Dartmouth:  is this the year Brown can get past Dartmouth?  Brown has improved, Dartmouth is not the team it once was.  Brown has balanced pitching, Dartmouth has a clear 1, with question marks after that.

Harvard/ Yale:  Can Harvard recover the magic of their early season success that made them my favorite to win the league?

Realistically, I would not be surprised if all series go 2-2.  I'd be VERY surprised if ANY team sweeps.  Should be good weather all weekend.
      
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #75 
Sounds about right. Harvard could break out at any time. Dartmouth has definitely been on the upswing. It's almost anyone's chance this year. This weekend should clear up the picture a bit.
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Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDG

I can attest to the lack of information about financial opportunities provided during the recruiting process, at least 5 years ago. 

At no time did we get anything other than “… has a generous financial aid program...”. We had no clue how that would translate into real world costs.  I know everything is “needs based”. But coaches should have a way to communicate how that actually impacts a player’s finances. 



Google "financial aid calculator" for each of the Ivy schools you are interested in. I know Dartmouth has one and I'm sure the others do as well. I have it on good authority the number you get will be pretty accurate when you go through the process for real. You can do it anonymously. Just plug in your numbers when prompted.

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DTitanFan

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sftbll4ever


Triple Crown has decided to run the newly introduced NIT post season tournament for softball.

This was approved years ago, but there was no sanctioning body that wanted to move forward with it.  It was announced by Triple Crown this year that they would be starting it this post season.

https://cwsplacesoftball.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/nit-like-softball-tournament/

http://www.womensnisc.com/


Any word on whether the League/schools have committed to sending a team this year? I think this is great and am all for expanding post-season opportunities. However, I wouldn't assume that it is a given that an Ivy will be represented this year. 
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sftbll4ever


Triple Crown has decided to run the newly introduced NIT post season tournament for softball.

This was approved years ago, but there was no sanctioning body that wanted to move forward with it.  It was announced by Triple Crown this year that they would be starting it this post season.

https://cwsplacesoftball.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/nit-like-softball-tournament/

http://www.womensnisc.com/



It's funny that both pages say "the RETURN of the NIT"...when was it ever in place before?
DTitanFan

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H
Yeah I have to agree with Austin post 60 and 65. The level of Ivy commitment to the sport has changed greatly in the last ten years. Dartmouth used to play in the corner of a city park with little to no bleachers. You wouldn't believe where Brown played. Now they have new stadiums. Before the last decade I did not see nearly the level of effort in terms of recruiting and scouting I see now. Now they are all busting it. We saw each of them multiple times last year in Colorado. Except for one unnamed school. Not sure why because she was there. (Pitched our 33 ACT kid to her in a bar one night [smile], now that same kid is going to hurt her four games per year [wink]) Sure Harvard was a quality exception but how hard should it be to recruit kids or coaches to Harvard? Having said that, Allard does a great job. Coach Blood was also great. Still, at some of the Ivy schools it was a job you could coast and do ok. Not so much anymore. I think pretty much all the schools have coaches with a fire in their belly now. Look at the resumes of the current Dartmouth coaches and you get some idea of the commitment that school makes to women's sports.


Agreed - the facilities at Dartmouth and Brown were abysmal - however, they didn't stop Brown from winning a title, or Dartmouth from rising to battle Harvard for the North title year in and year out. Frankly, most of the facilities in the league 10 years ago were sub-par. Until recently Princeton's field looked the same as when the team went to the WCWS in '96! (yes, an Ivy team did play in the WCWS).

We all know that recruiting, like new facilities, costs money. In my opinion, to equate a lack of visibility on the road with a lack of effort isn't a fair judgment. I certainly wouldn't imply that coaches in the League back then didn't have a fire in their belly. A decade ago, I bet if you were to look at budgets around the league, there were only a couple schools with healthy enough recruiting budgets to support the type of travel and tournament coverage that you see by the coaching staffs in the league today. Now, seemingly all program's have the ability to send 2, in some cases 3, coaches on the road - that makes a huge difference. It's another sign that the League is growing in the right direction. 
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinSoftball
I agree that many of the top coaches on select teams do not do a good job in listening to the Ivy benefits.  For some reason they think they get more credit for placing a player in a program closer to home.  Many of them could not name more than 4-5 Ivy school names.  Parents have to be proactive in considering the strength of school as well as the program.  We got most of our information from one summer camp after sophomore year.  The Harvard camp impressed upon our DD the opportunities that these schools provide their student athletes and provided a roadmap on how to get the interest from these programs.  

The timing will always be an issue, but given the high bar on admission standards most people can understand why these schools cannot offer freshman and sophomores.



Not true as much anymore. Few programs have stepped over the line, so to speak, and are starting to verbal some of the younger kids. I know of one local freshman who scored 26 on her ACT and has offer on table from an Ivy. I'm also aware of couple others with similar circumstances. So looks like at least some of the Ivy schools aren't content to just wait for leftovers. That said, they aren't recruiting the same kids as most Power 5 programs. 

In the ACC, UVA, Duke have admission standards equal to any Ivy. However, at UVA, scholarship kids have relaxed requirements, say 25-26 ACT vs a guaranteed roster spot athlete who must qualify on their own must get 30-31 ACT scores. Duke is looking for minumum 25-26 for any potential softball recruit plus, high GPAs and multiple advanced placement classes. Duke Admissions "let go" 3 of their original 2017 verbals last Fall prior to signing day because of academic issues. One of those kids had a 31 on her ACT to, ironically she will be attending UVA this September. Kid is a solid corner with a great bat who wanted an academic East Coast school. UVA has the luxury of an established program so allowances were made I guess. Duke Softball answers to Admissions first currently. My understanding is any potential recruit is not even allowed on campus until Transcripts are run through Admissions Office(like the Ivys). Also, any potential transfer must submit their High School transcripts first, Duke is looking to see if that kid would have qualified as an incoming Freshman.

While the Ivy League offers a tremendous degree & path for life after softball, one thing is overlooked. Crazy but, alot of kids just don't want to go where it's cold. Shortsighted maybe but, these are 17-18 yr old kids. Understandable.
AustinSoftball

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Reply with quote  #81 
I am following Duke with a keen eye because I have always thought strong academic schools like Rice, SMU, TCU could attract many strong female athletes if they had softball.  Many Southern students would love to stay close to home.  Ga. Tech. has some really strong students, some of them going on to med school.  Duke should do well and might expand the pool of strong students for all similar programs.  Taking the ACT or SAT early is so important because a strong score opens all of those campuses to you.  Plus, coaches come to watch the players with ACTS in the 30s and SATs over 2000.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #82 
Clemson adding Softball for 2020 is great for ACC & beyond. The 1 dumpster fire of Ga Tech boggles the mind. Not sure what happened & when but that program is pathetic. Not for lack of talent as much as coaching. I haven't heard any Ga Tech fans who think Head Coach will last past this year. Rightfully so IMO. Great degree & solid softball history. It can't get back to relevance soon enough. UVA is the other program which needs help. Harden has got them to almost as many wins currently than all of last year. After what Blake Miller did to that program, the NCAA should put that clown on a lifetime ban for even thinking about Softball. Hopefully, Harden is given a longer leash so she can get some of her kids in school. That said, the AD needs to take a more serious interest in investing in the program. Major facility upgrades are due. The field is relegated to some backwater North 40 adjacent to the Intramural fields. 

As far as Duke...it will be interesting to see how they respond next Spring. Brand new stadium to. I've seen the preliminary schedule. With a lineup of mostly true Freshman & maybe couple transfers, they won't get any favors as far as opponents. Although, they don't play Fla State in regular season. But if they can win a few ball games, generate some positive buzz, be good sign for Clemson down the road & the ACC. With Coach Young, Chidester & Kantor, Duke is prepared on that front.

Ivy League, Duke, Ga Tech, Uva etc...life after softball. 
AustinSoftball

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Reply with quote  #83 
We followed Ga Tech since a local player joined the team and became an All-American.  With so many strong Ga select teams and the North Florida programs, it is hard to know how they could fall so far.  The COC coaches have had a hard time adjusting to the conference.  The team will be back.  One of their issues is the inability to take a student interested in liberal arts.  We knew a player who got an offer but  could not go once she decided to major in English.
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTitanFan


Agreed - the facilities at Dartmouth and Brown were abysmal - however, they didn't stop Brown from winning a title, or Dartmouth from rising to battle Harvard for the North title year in and year out. Frankly, most of the facilities in the league 10 years ago were sub-par. Until recently Princeton's field looked the same as when the team went to the WCWS in '96! (yes, an Ivy team did play in the WCWS).

We all know that recruiting, like new facilities, costs money. In my opinion, to equate a lack of visibility on the road with a lack of effort isn't a fair judgment. I certainly wouldn't imply that coaches in the League back then didn't have a fire in their belly. A decade ago, I bet if you were to look at budgets around the league, there were only a couple schools with healthy enough recruiting budgets to support the type of travel and tournament coverage that you see by the coaching staffs in the league today. Now, seemingly all program's have the ability to send 2, in some cases 3, coaches on the road - that makes a huge difference. It's another sign that the League is growing in the right direction. 


You may be right. Thanks for the perspective.

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Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinSoftball
  Taking the ACT or SAT early is so important because a strong score opens all of those campuses to you. .
Exactly. High school counselors will tell you not to take it early but they don't understand the issues young athletes face. Take them early and often till you get the scores you need.

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Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofzone

As far as Duke...it will be interesting to see how they respond next Spring. Brand new stadium to. I've seen the preliminary schedule. With a lineup of mostly true Freshman & maybe couple transfers, they won't get any favors as far as opponents. . 


There's the thing. High academic schools take longer to build or turn around because they are very limited in terms of bringing in transfers. With recruiting out three to four years in terms of commitments...

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AustinSoftball

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Reply with quote  #87 
In the South, Princeton dominated traditional powerhouse Penn to take 4 games. Columbia split with Cornell, a team that showed some serious offense.  Columbia is probably the only team that now can overtake Princeton but it will take a sweep and possibly some help from Cornell.  Columbia and Princeton meet next week so this race might be pretty clear seven days from now. Princeton looks strong right now.

In the North, as last year, Dartmouth won 4 games from Brown.  Harvard was so inconsistent on Saturday with some pretty weak defensive play. Run rules in Ivy play, one for Harvard and one for Yale? But in the end, Harvard won 3 games, something that was necessary given the Dartmouth wins.   Next weekend, Dartmouth faces Yale at Yale, a team that dominated them last year.  No doubt that last year Yale played with so much intensity.  Of course, Dartmouth will look to keep its 3 game lead on Harvard and Harvard will look to regain some of this ground as they did last year by sweeping Brown. The annual showdown at Boston and Hanover for the title looks like it is shaping up again this year.
AustinSoftball

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Reply with quote  #88 
Nice article about Princeton's team.

http://herosports.com/news/d1-softball-wrap-unc-cmu-princeton-st-josephs-make-big-moves-blbl

Princeton has 18 Ivy Championships with dominance in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s.  I did not follow Ivy softball back then, but it looks as if they had some great teams.
MadDogsDad

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Reply with quote  #89 
didn't Duke bring in scholarship players from the 2016 class? I though I read somewhere that they did. Not that it matters much, but having 2 classes of players and potential transfers may allow them to be more competitive that first year.

Sorry to hijack the Ivy thread.

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lurker123

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Reply with quote  #90 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDogsDad
didn't Duke bring in scholarship players from the 2016 class? I though I read somewhere that they did. Not that it matters much, but having 2 classes of players and potential transfers may allow them to be more competitive that first year. Sorry to hijack the Ivy thread.


They have scholarship restrictions that they are having to work within unless something has changed. They won't be fully-funded scholarship-wise until the fourth season.
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