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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #61 
Dewey - Of course there is much mud being slung.  It is the nature of contemporary USA politics unfortunately (demonize the other guy).  Just remember that in order for mud to be slung there must be at least a hint of impropriety or failure to perform.  Clinton gave the political right fodder for mud slinging with his zipper (and in the White House too) after they had tried to find something in his past to vilify him with. Europeans thought it was hilarious. The Christian right wing was angry. My conservative neighbor was red faced and sputtered "And he desecrated the White House!".  I thought I did that just by walking through the Oval Office and saluting the President.  So it goes.   
Benghazi and the IRS gave the Obama (Democrat in 2016) opposition ammunition to crow with and to mud sling with.  It's all politics in our nation.  I do not understand why people pay the personal and family price to be involved in the system.  It takes a thick skin and then some to earn that retirement.   Frank


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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #62 
If the commander of a military unit had as much insubordination and law breaking in his ranks as Obama does he would be relieved of his command forthwith. It doesnt matter how the offenders were assigned to the unit, only the conduct of the unit under the commanders watch. It would be even worse if they were lying at their court martial.

Eventually it will occur to someone, if it hasn't already, that the IRS law-breaking has direct bearing on this past election. Tea Party and other non-liberal groups faced numerous obstacles, while liberal groups were free to operate throughout the campaign. Fees were waived for some groups, but not for others.

And the lie about two rogue employees in Cincinatti? Well that was a lie. The lie to Orrin Hatch when he asked if this exact type of activity was taking place? Well that was a lie too. All the crowing from the left when certain groups complained about treatment from the IRS. Well, you're about to eat tht crow. Enjoy it.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #63 
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/14/Obama-campaign-co-chair-attacked-Romney-conservative-group-in-2012-with-leaked-IRS-scandal-documents

Obama campaign co-chair attacked Romney during the election with info from tax documents obtained illegally from the IRS.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey


  More ammo for the talk radio hosts to run wild with despite Obama having nothing to do with any of this.

  The truth is President Obama has done nothing wrong .......




dewey doesn't even know it but he just spelled out the Limbaugh theorem.  perfectly executed

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #65 
Reports are that the acting head of the IRS, the guy that Obama said "resigned" yesterday, will be leaving office when his "interim" contract expires next month.

So what was the press conference really for?

A sound bite to play on the news, something the low info crowd can point to and say "Look, Obama is getting on top of this."

A sound bite for the sheep.
Lovemesomesoftball

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Reply with quote  #66 
Rights violated for one are rights violated for all. No excuse for what the IRS did. In this country people are not suppose to be persecuted for their beliefs that would be religious, political, sexual etc. What is in on the table now is a rotten meal. Talking about the rotten meal last week, last month, a decade ago is not where the focus should be. The attention should be on what is sitting in front of us. Whoever goes down because of this made a choice to be a part of it or not step up.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Tea Party and other non-liberal groups faced numerous obstacles, while liberal groups were free to operate throughout the campaign. Fees were waived for some groups, but not for others.


For the record, this is not entirely true.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #68 
What FIB said is definitely the truth....Conservative groups were targeted.....
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #69 
If truth means no liberal groups faced questions regarding their application, I think Bloomberg says otherwise.  If truth suggests IRS was charging fees of one group and not another, I haven't been able to find proof of such.  We'll let FIB set the record straight if he can.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #70 
When they say that only 25% of those that got the additional scrutiny were actually tea party or conservative that means the other 75% that got additional scrutiny were either democrat, independent, or an actual legitimate social welfare group that is not just a political group trying to become tax exempt. Actual names of groups that were denied, groups that had fees waived, etc. is needed.
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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #71 
Additional scrutiny is not persecution....that would be the IRS restricting or preventing them from gaining tax exempt status only because they were tea party. How many were turned down? I have heard of none.
Jews were persecuted. Groups with tea party or patriot in their name just had additional paperwork. They were not persecuted. Discriminating is to judge someone based on politics, religion, or race. etc. instead of their own merits.
Latino drivers and day laborers get additional scrutiny....are they being persecuted? If they are arrested it is because they were illegal-the very reason for the additional scrutiny.
Wisconsin doubles the job search requirements for unemployed to collect benefits. Democrats voted against it and said it was to force several people off unemployment (persecuting the unemployed). Republicans said they were just actively trying to motivate people to look for work and make sure those on it were qualified. Basically additional hoops for unemployed people to jump thru from one view and making the gravy train harder from the other. I think all gravy trains should be harder for everyone.

Are groups with islam, muslim or similar words being persecuted? The good ones receive a second look (additional scrutiny)around america in everyday life due to the activities of the extremists. I give additional scrutiny to those who claim to be Islamic too. No memo or letter--an unwritten rule.
How did the additional scrutiny on the brothers turn out? They still were able to do the boston bombing.
Our keystone cops government cannot make anything stick. Like trying to bail water out of a sinking ship with a pasta strainer.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #72 
I don't normally copy entire articles to here, but this is almost unbelievable:

The Internal Revenue Service is now facing a class action lawsuit over allegations that it improperly accessed and stole the health records of some 10 million Americans, including medical records of all California state judges.

According to a report by Courthousenews.com, an unnamed HIPAA-covered entity in California is suing the IRS, alleging that some 60 million medical records from 10 million patients were stolen by 15 IRS agents. The personal health information seized on March 11, 2011, included psychological counseling, gynecological counseling, sexual/drug treatment and other medical treatment data.  
 
"This is an action involving the corruption and abuse of power by several Internal Revenue Service agents," the complaint reads. "No search warrant authorized the seizure of these records; no subpoena authorized the seizure of these records; none of the 10,000,000 Americans were under any kind of known criminal or civil investigation and their medical records had no relevance whatsoever to the IRS search. IT personnel at the scene, a HIPPA facility warning on the building and the IT portion of the searched premises, and the company executives each warned the IRS agents of these privileged records," it continued.
 
According to the case, the IRS agents had a search warrant for financial data pertaining to a former employee of the John Doe company, however, "it did not authorize any seizure of any healthcare or medical record of any persons, least of all third parties completely unrelated to the matter," the complaint read. 
 
The class action lawsuit against the IRS seeks $25,000 in compensatory damages "per violation per individual" in addition to punitive damages for constitutional violations.  Thus, compensatory damages could start at a minimum of $250 billion. 
 
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #73 
Here is the original from the Courtnouse news site----



Class Calls IRS Rude, Crude and Abusive
 


     SAN DIEGO (CN) - A lurid but vague class action accuses corrupt and abusive IRS agents of stealing 10 million people's medical records without a warrant - including "intimate medical records of every state judge in California."
     John Doe Company sued 15 John Doe IRS agents in Superior Court.
     "This is an action involving the corruption and abuse of power by several Internal Revenue Service ('IRS') agents (collectively referred to as 'defendants' herein) during a raid of John Doe Company, in the Southern District of California, on March 11, 2011," the complaint states. "In a case involving solely a tax matter involving a former employee of the company, these agents stole more than 60,000,000 medical records of more than 10,000,000 Americans, including at least 1,000,000 Californians.
     "No search warrant authorized the seizure of these records; no subpoena authorized the seizure of these records; none of the 10,000,000 Americans were under any kind of known criminal or civil investigation and their medical records had no relevance whatsoever to the IRS search. IT personnel at the scene, a HIPPA [sic: recte HIPAA] facility warning on the building and the IT portion of the searched premises, and the company executives each warned the IRS agents of these privileged records. The IRS agents ignored and discarded each of these warnings, ignored their own published and public-reliant rules and governing ethical requirements, and ignored the limitations of the court's search warrant authorization, seizing the records under threat of destroying company property."
     Plaintiff's attorney Robert E. Barnes declined to elaborate on the complaint's allegations, saying he will have more information "in a few months."
     "I had to file to protect against the statute of limitations being an issue, but am still investigating all facts," Barnes told Courthouse News in an email.
     The putative class claims the IRS agents' seizure of medical records violated the 4th Amendment.
     "These medical records contained intimate and private information of more than 10,000,000 Americans, information that by its nature includes information about treatment for any kind of medical concern, including psychological counseling, gynecological counseling, sexual or drug treatment, and a wide range of medical matters covering the most intimate and private of concerns," the complaint states.
     "Despite knowing that these medical records were not within the scope of the warrant, defendants threatened to 'rip' the servers containing the medical data out of the building if IT personnel would not voluntarily hand them over. Moreover, even though defendants knew that the records they were seizing were not included within the scope of the search warrant, the defendants nonetheless searched and seized the records without making any attempt to segregate the files from those that could possibly be related to the search warrant. In fact, no effort was made at all to even try maintaining the illusion of legitimacy and legality.
     "After being put on notice of the illicit seizure, the IRS agents refused to return the records, continued to keep the records for the prying eyes of IRS peeping toms, and keep the records to this very day. The records may concern the intimate medical records of every state judge in California, every state court employee in California, leading and politically controversial members of the Screen Actors Guild and the Directors Guild, and prominent citizens in the world of entertainment, business and government, from all walks of life."
     To top it off, the IRS agents were rude, childish and arrogant, the complaint states:
     "Adding insult to injury, after unlawfully seizing the records and searching their intimate parts, defendants decided to use John Doe Company's media system to watch basketball, ordering pizza and Coca-Cola, to take in part of the NCAA tournament, illustrating their complete disregard of the court's order and the Plaintiffs' Fourth Amendment rights.
     "This complaint seeks justice for each and all of those individuals subjected to the invasive and unlawful search and seizure conducted on March 11, 2011."
     The complaint adds: "The search warrant authorized the seizure of financial records related principally to a former employee of the company; it did not authorize any seizure of any health care or medical record of any persons, least of all third parties completely unrelated to the matter.
     "While executing the warrant, the defendants seized personal mobile phones, including all the data and information on those phones, without any employing the proper and procedurally correct screening methods to protect private and privileged information, all of which was completely unapproved by the search warrant."
     The IRS' data theft was so enormous it affects "roughly one out of every twenty-five adult American citizens," the complaint states.
     It claims that one of the IRS agents involved has a "history of misconduct, ethical breaches, and criminal activity," including lying to grand juries, lying to witnesses about their rights during investigations, and "abusing search warrants and subpoenas for privileged information."
     It claims the IRS refuses to reveal which agents participated in the raid, who saw the medical records, and which agents have the records today.
     The class seeks $25,000 in compensatory damages "per violation per individual" and punitive damages for constitutional violations.
     It also seeks declaratory judgment "to protect the proprietary and privileged information of the medical records seized," an injunction preventing the IRS from sharing the information, and an order "compelling the return of all such records and the purging of government databases of all such records, in whatever form kept or accessible."
     The class is represented by Robert E. Barnes of Malibu.  


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
The IRS now says that its latest program of flagging conservative groups for additional scrutiny was inappropriate, but not partisan.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/14/new-irs-scandal-echoes-agency-problems-past/#ixzz2TUGx2nAx


Smokescreen.....Conservative groups were targeted....This is Obama's IRS...
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #75 
When it rains it pours.
Some will be legit and some will not. This one does not look legit.
Either way there will be more and more IRS issues coming forth in the next weeks.
If Hillary Clinton is indeed running in 2016 then her people need to get out there and start sending in IRS complaints too..anything to keep the focus and spotlight on IRS and not her.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #76 
What if the head of the IRS, an appointee of President Bush, along with these IRS workers, were setting up President Obama for a big fall by installing these unfair guidelines, supposedly to satisfy those who wanted something done about political organizations gaining non-profit status?  That could never happen in politics, could it?
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #77 
Lois Lerner (I  think thats the lady at IRS who heads the division) donated to Obama as well as her hubby who is a lawyer out of Atlanta that was appointed by Obama as ambassador to Singapore and his legal firm did voter registration drives etc... 

Dewey your revered leader is a chicago thug Alinskyite who has used every dept in the cabinet to screw the other side like no other and the media has let them get away with it like no other.  It will be interesting to see what starts coming out of the cracks now that a few things have opened up.

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Susan
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #78 
peopleacceptthefact that all  IRS employees can be bought out very easily thus don't be surprised that things like that happens.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812


Dewey your revered leader...


sbmom1812 - I'll agree to one thing with regards to President Obama and this case and that would be to say he must find a way to know about a wrongdoing like this and head it off at the pass.  Not always easy but he can't have underlings bringing this type of unacceptable activity into the Presidency.  He must do more to catch these mistakes or misdeeds.  Regardless of his unawareness, as Reagan learned, the guy at the top is expected to know and must eventually take responsibility.

Speaking of President Reagan, here is your revered leader caught up in some trouble of his own.

In fact, your revered leader had Iran Contra, Department of Housing and Urban Development Grant Rigging with sixteen convictions, the Deaver and Nofziger lobbying convictions, debategate, and several EPA scandals to name a few.  Despite this record, he is held in very high regard by the GOP.  No, as serious as this IRS situation is, it's a far cry from some of our more serious scandals that Presidents have experienced.  For the GOP and its supporters to throw around the impeachment word is absolutely ridiculous.


bluedog

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Reply with quote  #80 
How 'bout an independent who despises both parties throwing around the impeachment word?...Time to start the impeachment proceedings....

Dewey, trying to deflect Obama's agenda is futile....It's time to convict him and sentence him to time served....You are right, Obama needs to find a way - back to Kenya....
mikec

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Reply with quote  #81 
There won't be any impeachment proceedings unless something really bad blows up, nor should there be. There is zero chance of removal from office with a democratic senate.

The better plan is to win back the senate, then focus on the presidency.

For now, we deserve to know what happened in all of these situations. But, impeachment is a non-starter.

bluedog

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Reply with quote  #82 
Don't count your chickens before they hatch....Lots of scandals, lots of hearings....The liberal press is getting involved....The outrage is growing....The rats might not wanna go down with Obama....
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #83 
If you at all care, press secretary Jay Carney clearly explains all these issues on the "The Last Word" in a manner that's very easy to understand.  It's interesting to hear that all emails were given to members of Congress back in February and then some of those members chose to leak some of the emails in an incomplete fashion and for political reasons.  The White House then made the decision to release all emails to the public, something Administrations rarely do, in order to offset the piece meal and out of context leaks that members of Congress were putting forth.  He explains it all here.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #84 
how awesome dewey, Carney gets to sit and get tossed softballs by the MSNBC crew, because he got so mercilessly hammered by the white house press corps.  Trying to save face, I don't blame him, nor you for trying to put a better foot out there. 

Carney will be gone before Christmas, you heard it here first.

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #85 
Dewey Carney has been caught in so many lies at this point he has absolutely no credibility.  Interesting that you use him to deflect from the truth.
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Susan
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #86 
Why would Jay Carney lie? The Obama administration is the cleanest, most transparent, honest and law-abiding group of swell folks that ever took a crap in Washington.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #87 
Now it's being reported not only did GOP release emails in a piece meal fashion, they altered the text of the leaks as well in order to make the President look worse.  Geez, does the GOP know what they are doing?

When sbmom referred to the President as "your revered leader", I took it upon myself to be reminded of what her "revered leader", President Reagan, faced in his two terms, (see a few posts back from yesterday).  I was overwhelmed to read about all the officials convicted, indicted, fined, or whatever, along with all the scandals President Reagan's Administration had to deal with.  I had completely forgotten much of this activity and, no doubt, many of you are too young to have followed too closely.  In comparison, I'm not sure this President has experienced even one questionable incident of any merit, prior to this unfortunate IRS incident, other than complaints over using some political muscle.  When I compare his first term to past years, I'm even more proud of both the integrity of this Administration and the overall job done to date.  I know there will be more hurdles to come in this second term but, if the standards of the Reagan era can be so easily washed aside when grading a Presidency, one can easily expect the extent to which President Obama will be revered, once he is finished, is totally unlimited.  Take a read of Reagan addressing the American people over Iran-Contra and imagine the bashing if Obama had to make a similar address today as a result of a similar and significant scandal.  Read all the links and you'll ask yourself how the GOP has the wherewithall to so easily throw the term "lie" around.  It's obvious to me, the history of GOP troubles clearly explains why they remain so desperate to condemn any Democrat President, particularly this one, in hopes of significantly diminishing their standing.  They're still on the search for that one big scandal and I don't expect they'll let up anytime soon.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #88 
Shorter Dewey : it was somebody else's fault. Lol
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #89 
The IRS has come clean (to some extent, to be determined) about their illegal targeting of certain groups. While some blame others for the IRS self-confessed criminal activity, still others are beginning to question why this wasn't exposed immediately. Some are wondering if the lid was kept on this scandal until after the elections. And who came up with that particular idea.

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-irs-deliberately-chose-not-fess-scandal-election_724711.html

ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #90 
IRS chief "can't remember" anything under Congressional oath. This is the guy Obama let continue running the IRS, basically telling Congress to eat sh!t.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/348637/irs-head-cant-remember-who-was-responsible-targeting-andrew-johnson
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