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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #91 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Some are wondering if the lid was kept on this scandal until after the elections. 


If this were partisan, some are wondering why they went after some Progressive applications as well?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #92 
In this case it wasn't just the IRS that came after a woman applying for non profit status, the FBI, BATF, OSHA, and an EPA affiliate all showed up!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/13/IRS-Scandal-Facts-Suggest-Other-Gov-Agencies-Involved

This is tyranny. This is how it happens.

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mikec

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Reply with quote  #93 
I felt badly today for that guy testifying to Congress. It was just painful.

Back to the IRS, though, this is completely despicable. Honestly, I think the IRS has too much power. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent, if you can afford to, with the IRS. The power they have is breathtaking. That should be reformed. I hope something comes from it. If nothing else, may e this will wake people up to that.
woody

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Reply with quote  #94 
I don't remember. I don't recall. I will have to look back on my notes. "So you have notes?" I don't remember.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
I don't remember. I don't recall. I will have to look back on my notes. "So you have notes?" I don't remember.


at this point what difference does it make, that was a long time ago [yeah like less than a couple of years]

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #96 
mikec - Yes, he should have known more than he did.  What I see is an overworked IRS with thousands of more non-profit applications being submitted thanks to the Citizens United ruling.  They are under heavy pressure to avoid giving non-profit status to those involved in politics so they turned to profiling.  Totally unacceptable and somebody should have figured out what was going on and stopped it.  I figure these people determined if they pulled out those who included something political in their title, they could quickly reduce the backlog. 

But was it partisan?  They put Progressive organizations on hold too.  What would that mean to anyone on the outside?  It reminds me of some of our umpires who have chosen not to call IP's.  Does this mean they are biased towards BYU and USF or are they simply taking the wrong approach to make the game go more smoothly?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #97 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
I felt badly today for that guy testifying to Congress. It was just painful. Back to the IRS, though, this is completely despicable. Honestly, I think the IRS has too much power. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent, if you can afford to, with the IRS. The power they have is breathtaking. That should be reformed. I hope something comes from it. If nothing else, may e this will wake people up to that.


You felt bad for Miller? How can you feel bad for a guy like that?

Apparently key figures in the administration knew this was happening last summer, but they kept it quite due to the coming election. Pretty much a running theme these days, it was all about the election. Staying in power took precedence over everything. This administration is rotten to its core.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue


Apparently key figures in the administration knew this was happening last summer, but they kept it quite due to the coming election.


FIB - Did you make this up or do you have something I can read?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #99 
Obama:

"others may get distracted by every Fleeting issue that by, but the middle class will always be my number one priority. Period. Your jobs, your families, and your communities."

Because the IRS, the AP, and Benghazi are "fleeting issues."

This is the kind of talk that endears Obama to low info voters, who he is trying to keep in line as scandal after scandal comes to light. Speed bumps.

#fail

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #100 
Yeah because every administration has Ambassadors killed on their watch and then lie about it.  Every administration oversees an IRS that targets their opponents.  Every administration sics the FBI on news sources and on potential leaks from their office.  Yeah, these are fleeting issues, of no concern to us as free citizens.  Worst president ever, no it doesn't smack of politics or hidden agendas.

wish dewey had more help from the low info crowd on UCS.  Diet Coke, POV and dinger have even given up the fight.  Poor JG just shrugs and talks about the good old days, wish he would get more specific

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #101 
I saw last night that, in 2011, 27 groups with progressive in their name were approved, and zero with tea party were.

This is much worse than overworked staff.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #102 
it was just a few overworked rogue employees. Nothing to see here.


IRS lawyer Sarah Hall Ingram received four bonuses totaling $103,390 between 2009 and 2012 while managing the tax agency's division that harassed conservative Tea Party groups seeking tax exempt non-profit status. She was then promoted to manage the IRS role in implementing Obamacare. Big bonuses like those awarded Ingram typically require presidential approval.
Sarah Hall Ingram, the IRS executive in charge of the tax exempt division in 2010 when it began targeting conservative Tea Party, evangelical and pro-Israel groups for harassment, got more than $100,000 in bonuses between 2009 and 2012.

More recently, Ingram was promoted to serve as director of the tax agency's Obamacare program office, a position that put her in charge of the vast expansion of the IRS' regulatory power and staffing in connection with federal health care, ABC reported earlier today.

Ingram received a $7,000 bonus in 2009, according to data obtained by The Washington Examiner from the IRS, then a $34,440 bonus in 2010, $35,400 in 2011 and $26,550 last year, for a total of $103,390. Her annual salary went from $172,500 to $177,000 during the same period.

The 2010, 2011 and 2012 bonuses were awarded during the period when IRS harassment of the conservative groups was most intense. The newspaper obtained the data via a Freedom of Information Act request.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., described the Ingram awards as "stunning, just stunning."

Bonuses as large as those awarded to Ingram typically require presidential approval, according to federal personnel regulations.

High-ranking career federal civil servants like Ingram are eligible for recognition through citations known as Distinguished and Merit Service awards that can carry with them cash bonuses of anywhere from five to 35 percent of their base salary.

The largest of such awards, however, require presidential approval, according to the Office of Personnel Management, which oversees the federal civil service workforce.

“If the recommended award is over $25,000, the Director of OPM reviews the nomination and forwards his/her recommendation to the President for approval,” according to the OPM guidance.


Mark Tapscott is executive editor of The Washington Examiner.


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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #103 
Curious if such high bonises are typical for govt employees in similar positions. Because it looks like she was getting some extraordinary compensation for overseeing some extraordinarily nefarious IRS activities. And Obama saw fit to reward her.

There isn't a chance in hell that this woman will oversee the IRS implementation of the health tax system.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #104 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
...she was getting some extraordinary compensation for overseeing some extraordinarily nefarious IRS activities. And Obama saw fit to reward her. 


FIB - Her largest bonus came during the Bush Administration.  I think Presidents simply sign off on these bonuses, if even that much.  You should at least rephrase some of your comments with an admission that you are speculating in most cases in an attempt to make Obama look bad.  Writing that last sentence as absolute fact can easily be considered a deliberate lie by many readers, particularly when you preface it with wrongdoing earned her the reward.  I'm not saying you have to write "imo" in all cases but it appears here you want people to believe you know exactly how bonuses are authorized.  I doubt you do.

PS:  To answer spazsdad comment that followed this post, I admitted Presidents may sign off on bonuses but I'm uncertain if her bonus was high enough to require approval.  I never said they didn't need approval.  I wouldn't know if $44,000 rises to the approval level.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #105 
Here it is again since you want to dispute FIB claims.
"The largest of such awards, however, require presidential approval, according to the Office of Personnel Management, which oversees the federal civil service workforce"
Your take that they do not require approval could be construed as more of a lie than saying they do. And of ourse you had to throw another Bush reference into your argument. What a surprise.

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#SCOTUS x two


Dewey

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Reply with quote  #106 
The truth as I see it...

The truth is these IRS agents were overwhelmed with tax exempt applications due to the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling.  The truth is they were under pressure to keep out those organizations that were primarily political and to be excluded, as the law requires, from being labeled non profit organizations.  The truth is they used keywords to try and determine which organizations were political.  The truth is many saying "Party" in their name were scrutinized as being possibly political.  The truth is all those saying "Tea Party" were scrutinized as being possibly political organizations.  The truth is using key words to scrutinize was totally inappropriate and did hit Conservative organizations much harder.  The truth is this "key word targeting" was ultimately more unfair to the Conservative applications.  The truth is these agents were searching out political organizations not deserving of tax exempt status but they were not being partisan.  The truth is Emerge America, Progress Texas, and Clean Elections Texas are three known Liberal organizations to be picked out and scrutinized by the IRS.  The truth is many on the Right are saying this was a partisan witch-hunt.  The truth is many on the Right are suggesting the President had something to do with the IRS tactics.  The truth is if you believe the IRS acted inappropriately, for any reason other than a partisan decision to target Conservative groups, this scandal will not help the anti-Obama crowd.  The truth is the Right needs a scandal to attack Obama whenever possible.  The truth is the IRS did wrong but there is no evidence that they were out to get one side only.  It's impossible to know for certain what the intentions of another are so I suppose each of us will determine on our own if these IRS agents, (with no whistle-blowers as of yet), were deliberately after Conservatives and, secondly, if the Right in this Country is deliberately after President Obama using this IRS scandal.

PS:  To those two posts that followed, I think it's safe to say you both would say such even if there were no evidence whatsoever to support your claim.  Same as the likelihood that despite all the convictions during the Reagan years, you would still deny there was much corruption during his two terms.  And you two claim I'm set in my ways.  Wow!  (spazsdad, did you see I wrote "as I see it"?)
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #107 
Here's the way I see it

The Obama administration is corrupt to its core.

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There are problems in these times, but, oh, none of them are mine.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #108 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Here's the way I see it The Obama administration is corrupt to its core.


'Nuff said

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #109 
Sure are a lot of your opinions mixed in with your "truths"
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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #110 
Who told the IRS to target conservative groups?

Obama. And he did it publicly.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324767004578487332636180800.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

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There are problems in these times, but, oh, none of them are mine.
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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #111 
I believe Obama objected to political groups of all kinds raising money under false pretenses for the purpose of injecting it into our political process.  Using the tax exempt status to raise money for political purposes is as illegal as immigrants coming into this Country without proper paperwork.  As my side is capable of on occasion, it's one of those law violations Conservatives aren't too concerned about.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #112 

Since January 1st, the Internal Revenue Service has read our website 2,615 times, including 36 visits on February 6 and 34 visits on May 10. 

After Watchdog.org broke news that the IRS had viewed their page 456 times since 2009, the Spectator searched for any site visitors with “.gov” in their IP address through Google Analytics.

In terms of visits, the agency is actually sixth out of ten different federal agencies to read the site since January; the Department of Homeland Security stands in first place with over 6,000 visits, while the Department of Justice comes in fourth with over 3,000.

Yesterday, President Obama asked for IRS Acting Commissioner Stephen T. Miller’s resignation after the agency selectively scrutinized Tea Party groups in their applications for tax-exempt status.

The three agencies displayed a heightened interest in certain days, such as Thursday, March 7.

On that day, we blogged multiple times about Senator Rand Paul’s filibuster against CIA Director John Brennan, including publishing Attorney General Holder’s letter to the senator. Simultaneously, we received 103 visits from the Department of Homeland Security, 68 visits from the Department of Justice, and 26 visits from the Internal Revenue Service. 

Congress and the FBI are investigating President Obama’s administration for several different scandals this week, including the Department of Justice’s seizure of AP phone records, the IRS’s inappropriate targeting of conservative organizations, and the terrorist attack in Benghazi.

The American Spectator Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit, publishes The American Spectator, which may justify some visits from our national tax collector. Other visits may simply be IRS employees who were bored at work. But still, conservative organizations should analyze government visits on their websites.

As these scandals reveal themselves further, we realize that any and every organization is a potential victim of a runaway federal government.


__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Posts: 10,365
Reply with quote  #113 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Who told the IRS to target conservative groups?

Obama. And he did it publicly.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324767004578487332636180800.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Excerpt:

President Obama and Co. are in full deniability mode, noting that the IRS is an "independent" agency and that they knew nothing about its abuse. The media and Congress are sleuthing for some hint that Mr. Obama picked up the phone and sicced the tax dogs on his enemies.

But that's not how things work in post-Watergate Washington. Mr. Obama didn't need to pick up the phone. All he needed to do was exactly what he did do, in full view, for three years: Publicly suggest that conservative political groups were engaged in nefarious deeds; publicly call out by name political opponents whom he'd like to see harassed; and publicly have his party pressure the IRS to take action.
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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #114 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
All he needed to do was exactly what he did do, in full view, for three years: Publicly suggest that conservative political groups were engaged in nefarious deeds; publicly call out by name political opponents whom he'd like to see harassed; and publicly have his party pressure the IRS to take action.


ForeverInBlue - Let me help out a little.  Notice they didn't say "publicly said"?  It's a play on words to try and convince people the intentions of another.  Sorry, but it's a biased opinion.  Secondly, if you have have any proof he asked for somebody to be harassed, please post it here.  Methinks you don't.  As for blaming this President for what others do, that goes on every day and it's akin to crying "wolf". 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #115 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Who told the IRS to target conservative groups?

Obama. And he did it publicly.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324767004578487332636180800.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Here is more from the story, looking like a full court press put on by Obama *and* Congressional Democrats.

In case the IRS missed his point, he raised the threat of illegality: "All around this country there are groups with harmless-sounding names like Americans for Prosperity, who are running millions of dollars of ads against Democratic candidates . . . And they don't have to say who exactly the Americans for Prosperity are. You don't know if it's a foreign-controlled corporation."

Short of directly asking federal agencies to investigate these groups, this is as close as it gets. Especially as top congressional Democrats were putting in their own versions of phone calls, sending letters to the IRS that accused it of having "failed to address" the "problem" of groups that were "improperly engaged" in campaigns. Because guess who controls that "independent" agency's budget?
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There are problems in these times, but, oh, none of them are mine.
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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #116 
Speaking of the Spectator, which the IRS seems so interested in, here is their report on NTEU, a union that represents... Yup, IRS employees; and which leans.... Yup, very heavily liberal.

Marching orders from the boss man, anyone?

http://mobile.spectator.org/theamericanspectator/#!/entry/the-liberal-union-behind-the-irs,5195a4b0da27f5d9d0c6cb0e

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #117 
ForeverInBlue - I think I noted in my first post the IRS has been under pressure ever since the Supreme Court opened up the flood gates.  That said, if one can't object to organizations circumventing the law without being blamed for all the good and bad that follows, I'm wondering if you'll feel responsible for any law enforcement officials harmed in the line of duty tackling those who fear and lash out at this tyrannical and dangerous Administration?  You use those words often.

It's been fun but trying every twist possible to pin this IRS misdeed on the President is proof enough for most as to the weakness of this accusation.  You should have some kind of signature line noting you'll find something on this man if it's the last thing you do.  First, he's too weak to pass gun legislation and then he's so powerful as to influence every IRS agent on the job to either go along or to keep quiet.  I'll let you take it from here.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #118 
Here is Rand Paul writing in the the Washington Times on Obama's "Staggering Abuse of Power"

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/16/a-staggering-abuse-of-power/

Here is a taste:

The filibuster was about the limits of power. It was about how much authority the president imagined he had. Lincoln wrote that nearly any man can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man, give him power.

I think Mr. Obama has failed that test of power. From the cover-up in Benghazi to letting the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) target the Tea Party to First and Fourth Amendment violations in obtaining records from the press, Mr. Obama has shown disregard for the Bill of Rights and his responsibilities as commander in chief.





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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #119 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
First, he's too weak to pass gun legislation and then he's so powerful as to influence every IRS agent on the job to either go along or to keep quiet.  I'll let you take it from here.


Thanks, and you seem to have hit the nail on the head without even realizing it.

Obama is plenty influential with the sychophants he panders to, who will do anything to please him, including, apparently, break the law, which the head of the IRS has already openly admitted, but you keep defending. LMAO!

Specifically union types, like the heavily liberal NTEU, as descibed above in The Spectator, which represents IRS employees, the same ones that targeted conservative groups. Like the SEIU, etc etc.

He's not so powerful outside the liberal lemming community, even so weak he couldnt get gun control through the Senate, controlled by his own party.

And even weaker when it comes building bipartisan consensus, witness he had to send Biden to negotiate the sequester tax hikes in January because he's so loathed on the hill.

And almost powerless in the international arena, where he's only welcome with check in hand, (or actual cash, and helicopters, in the case of Afghanistan) and outright abused by the likes of Putin.

Such are the limits of his influence, but that hasn't stopped him from overstepping his boundaries, because he feels he has no boundaries. He's awash in the mirage of his own power, propagated by those he surrounds himself with. They will carry on in the weeds of he-said she-said semantics as the forest of discontent grows around them. And growing it is.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #120 
I am so glad dewey let you take the thread FIB.  You just hit it out of the park against the other team's 4th string pitcher
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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