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Midwest

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Reply with quote  #1 
What a great podcast! Say the truth.

Does the committee watch softball?

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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #2 
First, Vic should not have been on this week. That was BRUTAL production value.

Eric always executes solid interviews, but this time of year is not the best for him. Their mid-major bunker mentality sort of overwhelms things.

The good news is that we are now past the picks, they can get back to normal
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #3 
That said, even with the fact they only played 11 T50 games, FGCU was 12 spots in RPI better than Wisconsin.

RPI already does its accounting of WP, OWP and OOWP and it is the template the committee uses for almost the entirety of the field.

So, the idea that an eye test on Wisconsin (even with an OOC 59 vs. FGCU's 129) made up THAT sort of gap defies reality. A few spots, sure. A dozen? No.

They took a shot at Oregon State for making it. The Beavers won a game against Oregon and a game against Arizona State, supers host seeds, in six shots. Does anyone reasonably think that FGCU could have gotten those wins? I don't think so.

Finally, maybe BOTH USF and FGCU should have made it.

But, if only one made it, it should have been Deiros. Going 2-0 against USF and being 5 RPI slots ahead. That is a slam dunk to me.
Midwest

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Reply with quote  #4 
Not trying to start a fight.. just curious.

I do not claim to have the knowledge of most on this forum. But I do appreciate the sport. I personally agree with some of their points. Can I ask what you think they are off base about?

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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #5 
Missouri won three games against regional hosts.

I DO think it is incumbent on an FGCU to get at least one of those high-end P5 games won if you can't win your conference tournament if THOSE are the teams that you are ripping
Midwest

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Reply with quote  #6 
Like I said not claiming all knowing:

I still have a hard time understanding even the best conference getting all their teams in.

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Nextyear

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest
Not trying to start a fight.. just curious.

I do not claim to have the knowledge of most on this forum. But I do appreciate the sport. I personally agree with some of their points. Can I ask what you think they are off base about?


I tend to be a “power 5” guy but for the second year in a row agree with just about every criticism Eric make about the committee.

1. How does the 7th best RPI conference get 5 teams in while the 5th gets 2 and the 6th gets one.

2. The Missouri buy out needs to be addressed in the future. The committee just justified the practice of ducking out in your committed schedule to get in.

3. This choosing host sights by convenience to bus is garbage. Seed the tournament correctly and if schools don’t have the budget to get there don’t accept the bid. The players play all year to get in the tournament and earn the right to host and it’s determined by geography? No men’s college sport would accept this logic so neither should the women.

If you are going to aspire to be a major sport that draws good TV ratings you need to act like one.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #8 
I agree with them that the top 16, once selected, should be shimmied to avoid intraconference supers.

It would make the tournament SO much better
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nextyear


I tend to be a “power 5” guy but for the second year in a row agree with just about every criticism Eric make about the committee.

1. How does the 7th best RPI conference get 5 teams in while the 5th gets 2 and the 6th gets one.

2. The Missouri buy out needs to be addressed in the future. The committee just justified the practice of ducking out in your committed schedule to get in.

3. This choosing host sights by convenience to bus is garbage. Seed the tournament correctly and if schools don’t have the budget to get there don’t accept the bid. The players play all year to get in the tournament and earn the right to host and it’s determined by geography? No men’s college sport would accept this logic so neither should the women.

If you are going to aspire to be a major sport that draws good TV ratings you need to act like one.


You picked the aspects that I agree with word for word

PH2

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Reply with quote  #10 
I don't know the specifics of #1, but an easy answer is teams get bids, not conferences, and you could have several teams that individually deserve to be in (or at least on the bubble/considered) but the bottom half of the conference drags them down collectively.  I don't know if the facts support it in this case, but that's clearly a possible answer to the question.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #11 

The last three BigTen NCAA tournament teams had an average OOC RPI SoS ranking of 54.0

The three best RPI ACC teams that didn't make it had an average OOC RPI SoS ranking of 68.3.


3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #12 
And, re: the episode post-selection (without Deiros interview)

It absolutely feels like the 64 was determined and locked before the final weekend
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #13 

I think the lack of replay makes softball much more minor league than a couple bubble-selection arguments

His Kentucky take is whacky.... Kentucky's resume was superior to Baylor's

Eric picking Baylor to host.... really? And this Justin fella, too, apparently.

And, THIS isn't even a 2016-17 Baylor screwjob.... they didn't belong within a zip code of a host gig this year

Kentucky was 10-1 in RPI bonus games OOC (RPI1-75); Baylor was 11-7; Kentucky had eight wins against regional hosts. Baylor had one. Kentucky had zero 100+RPI losses, Baylor had one.

Please, Eric or anyone, explain how on earth you had Baylor hosting

Now, Auburn not being 16....now we can talk

3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #14 
Also, Eric acting like he was alone in the wilderness with UF as the No. 2... side-eye
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #15 
Meanwhile, Mizzou and Oregon State make the regional finals
ucferic

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Reply with quote  #16 
Yeah " Make regional finals" ok then like that is justifying them being in. Neither was even remotely a threat. By the time they got to play elimination games. Regional had been decided. Missouri was awful and lucky to even get passed by Boston U.

Oregon State beat Wisconsin team who many felt should not have been in the field as well.  So really Alabama got a cakewalk regional as did Oklahoma which has made this regional very bad so far. 
ucferic

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Reply with quote  #17 
I actually was not big fan of Baylor hosting as much as I thought if they were going to pick a team to host that was "Travel Friendly" they go with Baylor instead of Kentucky but I was not surprised they went with Kentucky.  
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #18 
What hosts DIDN'T have a 'cakewalk'? South Carolina, losing to Liberty? UCLA, losing to Fullerton? LSU, losing to ULL?

ncaasoftballfan

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Reply with quote  #19 
Not sure your ..... Softball is the only sport that awards teams for being just above .5000 rant is based in the most logic. There are a couple of issues with that, first it is inaccurate, other sports do have at-large teams that make the field with mediocre records. Just look at Women's Volleyball had a 17-15 Washington State team make the NCAA Tournament this past year and their SOS was only 10. One of the reason that you see so many teams in softball that have higher RPIs in that have lower winning percentages is the top RPI teams play each other more often in Softball than in many other sports. Those games have a mathematical effect that pushes their SOS and RPIs high.

Second of all if you really believed in your argument you would believe that all of the following teams are better than a Oregon State (.519 win % at selection), a Missouri (.509 win % at selection):
Texas Southern 261 RPI .538 win %
Morgan State 224 RPI .622 win %
Manhattan 220 RPI .528 win %
Sacred Heart 193 RPI .554 win %
Villanova 189 RPI .528 win %
Columbia 185 RPI .525 win %
Dayton 177 RPI .528 win %

And these are just the examples of teams that with this argument are in the same sentence as Oregon State and Missouri.

It is a pretty slippery slope when for your convenience you want to hold Oregon State and Missouri's poor winning record against them without regard to their elite strength of schedule.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaasoftballfan
Not sure your ..... Softball is the only sport that awards teams for being just above .5000 rant is based in the most logic. There are a couple of issues with that, first it is inaccurate, other sports do have at-large teams that make the field with mediocre records. Just look at Women's Volleyball had a 17-15 Washington State team make the NCAA Tournament this past year and their SOS was only 10. One of the reason that you see so many teams in softball that have higher RPIs in that have lower winning percentages is the top RPI teams play each other more often in Softball than in many other sports. Those games have a mathematical effect that pushes their SOS and RPIs high.

Second of all if you really believed in your argument you would believe that all of the following teams are better than a Oregon State (.519 win % at selection), a Missouri (.509 win % at selection):
Texas Southern 261 RPI .538 win %
Morgan State 224 RPI .622 win %
Manhattan 220 RPI .528 win %
Sacred Heart 193 RPI .554 win %
Villanova 189 RPI .528 win %
Columbia 185 RPI .525 win %
Dayton 177 RPI .528 win %

And these are just the examples of teams that with this argument are in the same sentence as Oregon State and Missouri.

It is a pretty slippery slope when for your convenience you want to hold Oregon State and Missouri's poor winning record against them without regard to their elite strength of schedule.
Jeez Louise.... word-for-freaking-word
ucferic

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Reply with quote  #21 
Look no one agrees with you. Having 500 teams that are mediocre is not good. You do not see  Men's Tournament Basketball have that.  If you do not care about sport growing and having no credibility and just have mediocre teams in field that is fine.  But that will not bring new fans to the sport period!

BTW Liberty and Fullerton played well and made regional actually interesting in those regionals. Imagine if you have more of them the opportunties instead of a team that bought themselves into field
ncaasoftballfan

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucferic
Look no one agrees with you. Having 500 teams that are mediocre is not good. You do not see  Men's Tournament Basketball have that.  If you do not care about sport growing and having no credibility and just have mediocre teams in field that is fine.  But that will not bring new fans to the sport period!

BTW Liberty and Fullerton played well and made regional actually interesting in those regionals. Imagine if you have more of them the opportunties instead of a team that bought themselves into field


I hear you, I know that we are the only two on this forum that think SOS is a good thing. I understand that you have the rest of the people on this board supporting your record is everything and SOS mean nothing, but I sleep well at night believing that taking into account strength of schedule is a necessity when evaluating the quality of teams.
ucferic

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Reply with quote  #23 
I Never said SOS meant nothin but it is also not the end all. You still win games lol  not split 50/50 otherwise why does Men's Hoops tournament team not put 500 teams as an at large?  The onlyb reason Missouri was even at 500 is cause they paid off Wichita State to add Arkansas Pine Bluff cause they knew they were not good enough to beat Wichita State or Florida.  Now if you are one of best teams according to RPI 24th best team. You cannot win a game vs Wichita State. They basically told you they were not good team by what they did. 

Why was Nebraska and its 34th toughest schedule not make NCAA  if its all about SOS?


ncaasoftballfan

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucferic
I Never said SOS meant nothin but it is also not the end all. You still win games lol  not split 50/50 otherwise why does Men's Hoops tournament team not put 500 teams as an at large?  The onlyb reason Missouri was even at 500 is cause they paid off Wichita State to add Arkansas Pine Bluff cause they knew they were not good enough to beat Wichita State or Florida.  Now if you are one of best teams according to RPI 24th best team. You cannot win a game vs Wichita State. They basically told you they were not good team by what they did. 

Why was Nebraska and its 34th toughest schedule not make NCAA  if its all about SOS?




Show me an example of a high RPI team in MBB that finished just above .500 that did not get an at-large berth in the past 5 years.

Alabama was 19-15 this last year and made it in. Also, Oklahoma at 18-13 and 53 in RPI having lost 8 of their final 10 games was not the least controversial selection in this years MBB selection. Those are just two examples from this past year.

For the record I have an appreciation for RPI because of SOS. I don't have a beef with high RPI teams that have just above .500 records because I know that in order to have that RPI they will have to have played a Top 10 (elite) SOS. I have a problem with you acting like RPI and SOS only matter when you have some record better than .500, maybe .600, I'm not sure where your cutoff is.

I also take offense to your rant that: 1) Every other sports selection committee does such a better job than softball's does and 2) That the problems with our sports validity is due to our Division 1 selection committee.

As a fan of RPI, I am very bothered by the committees omission of #38 FGCU. I at the same time can take a step back and logically say that #26 Oregon State and #24 Missouri did not steal FGCU bid. Feeling that Missouri did through their scheduling change is one thing, but using the .500 logic counts against #26 OSU just as much. I have a bigger beef with a #50 Wisconsin or a #42 Notre Dame getting in over FGCU.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #25 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucferic
I Never said SOS meant nothin but it is also not the end all. You still win games lol  not split 50/50 otherwise why does Men's Hoops tournament team not put 500 teams as an at large?  The onlyb reason Missouri was even at 500 is cause they paid off Wichita State to add Arkansas Pine Bluff cause they knew they were not good enough to beat Wichita State or Florida.  Now if you are one of best teams according to RPI 24th best team. You cannot win a game vs Wichita State. They basically told you they were not good team by what they did. 

Why was Nebraska and its 34th toughest schedule not make NCAA  if its all about SOS?


If Mizzou had USF's schedule, they would have won 40 games.

Strength of schedule should be weighted....heavily

Do what you espouse and you get that horsecr*p Auburn does every year, getting a 150th-ranked OOC schedule to insulate them from a) possibly ever being challenged except for 25 games a year b) build up a fluffy record and c) never hear from the whiners about teams at .500

What Mizzou did ... as an SEC team that KNEW it would get a meat-grinder in the conference sked ... in scheduling their OOC to be just as severe ... should be lauded.

The Auburns of the world deserve this sturm und drang

Bizarro world

3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucferic
I Never said SOS meant nothin but it is also not the end all. You still win games lol  not split 50/50 otherwise why does Men's Hoops tournament team not put 500 teams as an at large?  The onlyb reason Missouri was even at 500 is cause they paid off Wichita State to add Arkansas Pine Bluff cause they knew they were not good enough to beat Wichita State or Florida.  Now if you are one of best teams according to RPI 24th best team. You cannot win a game vs Wichita State. They basically told you they were not good team by what they did. 

Why was Nebraska and its 34th toughest schedule not make NCAA  if its all about SOS?


Your own win percentage is 25 percent of the grade

Don't know about everyone else, but that makes sense to me to have WP have a significant chunk of the weighting
ucferic

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Reply with quote  #27 
Oklahoma 18-13 is not 500 it is not 1 over 500.   I think there is a balance of SOS and win actual games. Let me know how many 500 at large teams college baseball will put in next week?
ucferic

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Reply with quote  #28 
Missouri powerhouse non conference schedule include loss to Marshall, twice to Illinois, SEMO. Not like every loss was to good team or every win was good. Look there no debating that this was a joke and its sad that some in this board endorses Missouri. Sad commentary on fan base for sport. 
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucferic
Missouri powerhouse non conference schedule include loss to Marshall, twice to Illinois, SEMO. Not like every loss was to good team or every win was good. Look there no debating that this was a joke and its sad that some in this board endorses Missouri. Sad commentary on fan base for sport. 
It's not about ANY of that.

And you are just being patently disingenuous at this point.

If they had scheduled seven more games against 150+ RPI opponents to match Auburn's 15 and got rid of their games against Oregon, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma State and Drake, they would have had 35 wins and there wouldn't be a peep from you or anyone else.

Just the way Auburn likes it.
ncaasoftballfan

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucferic
Oklahoma 18-13 is not 500 it is not 1 over 500.   I think there is a balance of SOS and win actual games. Let me know how many 500 at large teams college baseball will put in next week?


I will let you know all of the .519 and .509 college baseball teams they put in next week that are 24th and 26th on RPI. Problem with your logic is you can't find a MBB team, a WBB team, a volleyball team, a soccer team that is right around .500 that is in the Top 30 in RPI that got passed on selection day.

Actually I'll do you a favor their won't be any .500 at large teams selected for at large selections next Sunday. But contrary to the logic you try to purvey it won't be because their selection committee values being .500 or one game above it more than the softball committee. It will rather be because their RPI and thus resume won't be good enough to get in. The highest RPI team within 2 games above .500 right now is 27-25 West Virginia who before the weekend was 46 in RPI but this past weekend lost 2 of 3 at home (which losing at home is worse than on the road in baseball RPI calculations), so they are likely to drop a few spots and likely out of the Top 50. If they were to lose their Big 12 tournament game moving them to 27-26 (a perfect record to match OSU and Missouri) they would likely drop a few more spots likely to 54-56 range. As a 54-56 RPI team their team sheet is likely to look like a 55 level RPI's team sheet looks, which is much different than a 24-26 RPI team sheet looks like. It is for this reason, not that they are 27-26 that their bubble will burst. Comparing a 27-26 team that is 25 in RPI with a 27-26 team that is 55 in RPI is apples and oranges.

Actually, after looking at West Virginia's team sheet they have a better team sheet than anyone from 41-45 in front of them and many of the teams behind them. Here is to hoping they get selected because I'd hate for you to not be able to see how leaving out a 50+ RPI team is different than leaving out a 25 RPI team.

Also, in regards to your beef that the Softball Committee is the ONLY committee that selects .500 level at large teams. The example of Washington State Volleyball from 2017 at 17-15 pretty much proved that wrong (unless 2 games over 500 is enough for you).
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