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DaddyO

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Reply with quote  #31 
Frank - I am currently in a small town.  While I do know some of the folks here from my time in youth baseball, I do see a disturbing trend among the younger folks moving in, and that is of a self-imposed seclusion.

And why not?  We are preoccupied with entertainment of self, so we don't have to go any farther than our TV.  We can order in food, we can use video games to simulate a round of golf, we can pop in a DVD for exercise if we want to. 

It has never been easier for the individual to cut himself off from the rest of the population.  Doesn't matter where you live, I guess, but I thought it wouldn't happen here precisely for the reasons you brought up - the new folks getting a housewarming gift for moving in, folks cooking for each other when someone is ill, etc.  I doubt anyone would know if anyone else were seriously ill except for an ambulance arrival at someone's house.

We are no longer required to look after each other - government has taken that away from us.  We now look inward. 

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Scratch a reactionary leftist, find the fascist writhing underneath.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

DaddyO - I didn't think you were taking credit but, instead, unfairly selling yourself short and taking away some valuable personal credit from what you would likely continue to do, and that is help whenever and wherever you can.  I was hoping you wouldn't assume the rest of the American people would do any differently. 


HUH?


Yes, that was a poorly written sentence.  In any event, my point was that DaddyO will surely continue to do all he can, when he can, despite how much Government support people receive.  He's wise enough and caring enough to understand when people are in need and he's not going to ignore them based simply on what Uncle Sam is spending.  He wasn't taking any credit but I was trying to give him some, and I wanted to urge him to believe the American people will respond similarly.      
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #33 
Daddy O - Because I was rigid in my philosophy throughout much of my life and actually believed in social justice, it took me 52 years to really accept that sometimes the bad guys win.       
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #34 
Daddy O et al -  I think you have brilliantly described our social situation in a technological age, but I cannot go along with your blame of government.  I am 79 years old, not at all bitter as I have lived a very fortunate life in every way, but what I have learned from all of my reading and my education, and my many, many experiences on many levels, and my thinking with my nature given intelligence is that nation states and individuals generally (not specifically) operate on a Pragmatic rather than on any other type of philosophy.  

We talk and brag about our ideals and give mouth honor to our beliefs, but how easily we sell out for a buck or a power principle.  That is exactly what has happened to our federal government, and it isn't any different from all nation states in our world.  Most people in our world are working to put bread on their table and could care less about the world of ideas.  Only our freedoms make us different.

We are born into a particular time and space, we live, we die, and in between Pragmatism is the road we almost always choose as we merrily deny that we do in order to "save face".  That is the most important thing I've learned.  It keeps me understanding others and keeps me smiling and keeps me shaking my head, and wondering about mankind's institutions.    Frank

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
sbmom1812

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Posts: 3,002
Reply with quote  #35 

JG - I do believe people originally were very pragmatic but since the flower child era I think this has dissipated and people are becoming more amoral, narcissistic, and greedy.  I still believe in good people and think America continues to have a majority of good people but unfortunately I think this is getting less every day and I do think the govt, the leadership, the move to try to irradicate christianity from everything. and yes even the era of technology does affect this.  Our Govt is rewarding not so good behavior and lifestyle and punishing good behavior.  That never works.


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Susan
swifty

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Posts: 941
Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Daddy O - Because I was rigid in my philosophy throughout much of my life and actually believed in social justice, it took me 52 years to really accept that sometimes the bad guys win.       

Am I to understand by this statement that you are no longer rigid in your philosophy and that you no longer believe in social justice.  If so, you could'a fooled me.
GoYard

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Posts: 1,289
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812

you are absolutely correct DaddyO.  There are also alot of people that eat alot better on food stamps than alot of people paying for those food stamps.  I think there is something wrong with that picture.



Do some abuse the food stamp program?  Certainly.  Does the majority?  While I don't have any statistics, I really think not.  I believe that most people using food stamps truly need them to survive.  We hear about the fraud; we never hear about those complying with the rules.

But since some do abuse the system, should we scrap it?  If so, then Medicare has to go because there are HUGE frauds in the Medicare system.  I guess Social Security has to end, too, because dead people are still getting checks & some getting disability payments are really able to work.

What we need is massive REFORM to most of these programs.  But would someone suggesting this ever get elected?  Maybe.  But a lot of people think these programs, along with government pensions, are untouchable.  Like JG said, "greed is good" - this approach seems to apply to many these days.  Where have all the honest, ethical people gone??? 
GoYard

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Posts: 1,289
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812

you are absolutely correct DaddyO.  There are also alot of people that eat alot better on food stamps than alot of people paying for those food stamps.  I think there is something wrong with that picture.



Do some abuse the food stamp program?  Certainly.  Does the majority?  While I don't have any statistics, I really think not.  I believe that most people using food stamps truly need them to survive.  We hear about the fraud; we never hear about those complying with the rules.

But since some do abuse the system, should we scrap it?  If so, then Medicare has to go because there are HUGE frauds in the Medicare system.  I guess Social Security has to end, too, because dead people are still getting checks & some getting disability payments are really able to work.

What we need is massive REFORM to most of these programs.  But would someone suggesting this ever get elected?  Maybe.  But a lot of people think these programs, along with government pensions, are untouchable.  Like JG said, "greed is good" - this approach seems to apply to many these days.  Where have all the honest, ethical people gone??? 

Another challenge we face is that we are not the same country we were in the first half of the 20th century.  We have over 300 million people now - in 1920, we had just over 100 million residents.  Families were more likely to live close together - now children often live across the country from their parents & grandparents & cannot care for them.  Things that worked then just don't work now & the need for more social programs has become more critical for many.
bluedog

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Posts: 12,087
Reply with quote  #39 
GoYard, there are many families who pass down to the younger family members how to live off government paychecks....The older generation teaches the younger generation how the system works and how to manipulate the system......Kids grow up knowing they will never have to work......Contrary to what some people believe, this is an epidemic.....Our government has allowed a rather large block of our population to do this by very lax oversight in the government giveaway departments....Government employees are quite comfortable in the job security this provides....

Now, if our dishonest government who wastes a large portion of our money we send to 'em would make an attempt to curtail this problem, alot of us just may not feel the way we do about these giveaway programs....Just simply stop stealing our money and letting so many freeloaders steal it.....I don't see that as such a difficult request!   
GoYard

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Posts: 1,289
Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
GoYard, there are many families who pass down to the younger family members how to live off government paychecks....The older generation teaches the younger generation how the system works and how to manipulate the system......Kids grow up knowing they will never have to work......


That's quite a skeptical view of American families.  I'm sure there are some that do this, but I really don't think it's an epidemic.  And I really don't believe that most people receiving welfare PREFER to live that way.  I'm sure there are many kids raised in poor conditions that vow to break free from that & make something of themselves.  I'm sure they'd rather be living a middle-class (or above) lifestyle rather than below the poverty line.

I really don't think that living on welfare is something anyone sets their goals for.  Are some content with it & find it easier than working?  Sure.  But I doubt they are truly happy with their condition.  And there are many that get such assistance for brief periods of time during their lives, based on temporary hardships.  Heck, my own brother got food stamps & government-assisted housing for a brief time when he was 20.  He found himself married with a baby while in college & working part-time & just couldn't make ends meet.  He's now a medical professional with a $1 million house & looks back at those days sadly.  He sure didn't want to live that way the rest of his life.
GoYard

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Posts: 1,289
Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
GoYard, there are many families who pass down to the younger family members how to live off government paychecks....The older generation teaches the younger generation how the system works and how to manipulate the system......Kids grow up knowing they will never have to work......


That's quite a skeptical view of American families.  I'm sure there are some that do this, but I really don't think it's an epidemic.  And I really don't believe that most people receiving welfare PREFER to live that way.  I'm sure there are many kids raised in poor conditions that vow to break free from that & make something of themselves.  I'm sure they'd rather be living a middle-class (or above) lifestyle rather than below the poverty line.

I really don't think that living on welfare is something anyone sets their goals for.  Are some content with it & find it easier than working?  Sure.  But I doubt they are truly happy with their condition.  And there are many that get such assistance for brief periods of time during their lives, based on temporary hardships.  Heck, my own brother got food stamps & government-assisted housing for a brief time when he was 20.  He found himself married with a baby while in college & working part-time & just couldn't make ends meet.  Neither set of parents were in a financial position to help them out, as they were just getting by themselves.  He's now a medical professional with a $1 million house & looks back at those days sadly.  He sure didn't want to live that way the rest of his life.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,419
Reply with quote  #42 
slideby - I'll move my reply over here into the proper thread. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by slideby7
Mr. Dewey, Just because you post you "thought" and "it seemed", I don't know what you find in my post that didn't clarify my position.  What I posted is my position.

I agree that it is easy to condemn without considering consequences no differently than passing legislation without considering the consequences.



slideby - I'm not questioning your position, I simply have no idea what it is anymore.  That said, you're not required to tell me anything.  Just curious, if we had it all to do over again, was it a right or wrong thing to add SS and Medicare programs?  If you're saying right, then we have nothing to debate.  If you're saying wrong, then I'd be interested in how you would have handled my two examples.  If you choose not to decide, that's OK too. 

slideby7

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Posts: 818
Reply with quote  #43 
Mr. Dewey, And I have no ides what your questions are.  Every time you ask one and someone answers it, you come back and ask some other hypothetical.  I don't know what it is you don't get.  Read my post and apply it to your hypothetical question.  That's it.  Done, fini, terminado
bluedog

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Posts: 12,087
Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
I really don't think that living on welfare is something anyone sets their goals for.


There was a day when I'd agree with you.....But, not anymore!

We have raised a generation, or two, who have been taught this is their destiny...And, they are quite complacent with it!
keepinitreal

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Posts: 33,935
Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812

JG - I do believe people originally were very pragmatic but since the flower child era I think this has dissipated and people are becoming more amoral, narcissistic, and greedy.  I still believe in good people and think America continues to have a majority of good people but unfortunately I think this is getting less every day and I do think the govt, the leadership, the move to try to irradicate christianity from everything. and yes even the era of technology does affect this.  Our Govt is rewarding not so good behavior and lifestyle and punishing good behavior.  That never works.



woody and I were discussing this very thing, I loved that woman.

Image may contain: 1 person

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #46 
You're largely paying for insurance in the event you are disabled or die.  That way, you or your family will have an income.
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Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

keepinitreal

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Posts: 33,935
Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
That' my SOCIALIST side coming out !!!      Frank



janiedough,  you were asking if Joisey was a Socialist.  He admitted it a few times

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
uwApoligist

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Posts: 18,485
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


woody and I were discussing this very thing, I loved that woman.

Image may contain: 1 person

You are largely paying for losers that were to stupid to save their own money.  Instead of you and your kids enjoying the fruit of your labors that slobbering and sh1tting in the street drug addict that vibrates in traffic every morning is getting that money.  Turns out he will do as good as you, in retirement.  Smart system.

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

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