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bhblue

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Posts: 1,963
Reply with quote  #151 
Dewey - A mistake was made when the Cuba's recently freed criminals arrived when they weren't immediately returned to Cuba.  We seem to be prepared to repeat that mistake.

All I know about this year-old bill is that according to you it "increases resources and includes employer enforcement".  Throwing tax payer money at problems is a favorite answer for Government, particularly your side of the aisle.  Employer enforcement?  You mean like what's already out there?  More money?  No thanks.  If the bill were all you make it out to be. the House would have voted on it.

We now have a freed up military, many of whom have battlefield experience.  Post them along our borders and have them patrol our waters.  Neither fence nor wall would have the deterrent value of the risk of being shot on sight while sneaking into this country.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #152 
They should vote when Mr. Reid unlocks all of the bills the House has sent over, like modifications to the taxes for Obamacare, that would pass the Senate.

As for Florida, you must be dreaming if you think hundreds of thousands of immigrants are coming to FL by boat if the southern border is closed.

The Coast Guard does a pretty good job at interdiction.  It's not very possible to sneak that volume of people in.  I suppose if you wanted to do it one or two at a time, you could.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
mikec - I didn't hear you answer if you think the House should vote on the Senate bill.  I'm told it would probably pass.  Is this why you're against a vote?

bhblue - Next they'll come by boat like the Cubans have.  Do you think we should have put up a fence all around Florida and along our coastlines in the Gulf?  How about you...do you think the House should vote for the Senate bill?
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #153 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
pabar - Of course building a fence makes getting from one side to the other much more difficult and yes, I'm for reducing illegal immigration.  I'm also for more legal immigration.  As for success of a fence, the Berlin Wall proved it's a significant deterrent.  Now along the river where they jet ski from one side to the other, what should we do?  I just don't know if a fence is appropriate everywhere.  Others must decide that.  Not sure what more you want me to say.


I'll put you down as favoring a fence to reduce illegal immigration.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #154 
mikec - I think we're in agreement with regards to Congressional voting.  The two branches of Congress have the right to bring legislation as they see fit.  The biggest difference between me and your side on this matter is you guys complain about it all the time.  I simply wanted to note your side agrees with not bringing bills to vote too.  Some here might be fooled into thinking otherwise.  I like to make this transparent whenever possible but I suppose you knew that already.  Thanks for answering.  Pabar left me high and dry again.

bhblue - I don't really know but I'm guessing we have a fence wherever it makes sense to put one.  Do you have other information to the contrary?  Eventually the fence will be a "political" one when the lack of power on the Right, due to lack of votes, allows immigration reform to finally be finalized.  I don't know how long this will take.

Edit:  Wait a minute, there's pabar now with no answer.  He twisted my words as favoring something I don't know much about.  I don't think a 100% fence is possible so other remedies will be necessary.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #155 
Yet you didn't respond to your POTUS illegally deciding not to enforce the immigration law, which has lead us to the current crisis.
bhblue

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Posts: 1,963
Reply with quote  #156 
Dewey - I've seen news reports about fences running the length of a border town only to end an eighth of a mile from the city limits.  Not much of a deterrent IMO. 

Would you be against stationing our troops along our borders?  If so, would they be there as a deterrent or just to provide water to these criminals and direct them to the nearest "refugee" camp?
Dewey

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Posts: 24,409
Reply with quote  #157 
mikec - If you asked me if I still beat my wife, I would probably ignore it too.  Very leading question.  Prosecutorial discretion is an inherent power from what I read.  We have remedies if the majority believe a President has acted illegally.  I'm not sure you have the qualifications to determine the President has acted illegally.  Some States don't prosecute their sodomy laws.  You tell me why not.  Finally, who convinced you the President has acted illegally by not deporting children who have been here for years?  I'd like to read the source who made the case to your satisfaction.

bhblue - Again, you're asking me things that I'm unable to answer as I don't know if it makes financial sense, the costs versus the numbers caught, or what you're asking to be done to stop them?  Sen. Rubio was in on the Senate bill, along with several other Republicans so that gives me enough satisfaction to say let's run with it.  These guys know far more than I know.
steelman

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Posts: 351
Reply with quote  #158 
Put up a fence or a wall and they will tunnel under it. We need a double wall or fence where if they get by one they have another obsticle. That is a neutral zone. Even though they enter it they are on US territory. Warn them if they enter the neutral zone they will be apprehended and sent back.
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Of all the things ive lost, I miss my mind the most.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #159 
I've read nearly half of undocumented immigrants here simply overstayed their visas.  No illegal border crossing.  Add to those who are smuggled in via other transportation or abuse their border crossing card privileges, and I have to wonder how much good a fence can do if there are other ways to gain entry.  I think we're going to have to catch them where they work.

Edit:  pabar, you continue to pretend you'll answer my question if I answer yours and then you split on me.  Your call, I suppose, but then you'll turn around and try and convince others I'm dishonest.  Unusual tactic you have there, to say the least.
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #160 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
... or what you're asking to be done to stop them? 


"Neither fence nor wall would have the deterrent value of the risk of being shot on sight while sneaking into this country."

I don't think it would take very many to make the rest reconsider their trip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Sen. Rubio was in on the Senate bill, along with several other Republicans so that gives me enough satisfaction to say let's run with it.


You mean the pro-amnesty senator from Florida and others like him?  Unlike you with the Democrats, Dewey, I don't support ALL Republicans out there.  Full disclosure though - I have very little faith in any bill Harry Reid would allow to come to a vote.  In general, if he's for it, I'm probably against it and as we know, if he's not for it, he won't allow a vote on it.

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #161 
bhblue - I don't favor shooting those coming across the border.  Secondly, not sure what support all Republicans versus support all Democrats even means.  I likely wouldn't vote for a Rep. over a Dem and I'm guessing you wouldn't do the opposite.  Actually, I believe you to be a Libertarian so, more accurately, I doubt you'd ever vote a Dem over a Libertarian.  Lastly, I just wanted to make it known the Speaker won't let bills come forward, which he doesn't favor, either.  Both sides do it, one side complains a lot about it.
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #162 
Dewey - If one night you caught an unknown person breaking into your house, where your family sleeps, to take what he has no right to, what would you do?  What do you think the majority of US citizens would do?  I see no difference between the two scenarios.

The support comment was to let you know that showing that an issue or bill has Republican support doesn't necessarily make it any more attractive to me.  I may very well be a Libertarian, I don't often consider what I am.  However, I often disagree with some Libertarians like the Pauls and John Stossel if that changes your designation.

You're wrong about one thing.  Both sides complain a lot about it.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #163 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Does anyone think the Senate should vote on the 20+ House passed jobs bills that are still gathering dust on Harry Reid's desk?


Those are just the jobs bills.  Harry Reid is an obstructionist, there are a total of about 240 bills passed by the house that the limp dicked harry reid has not brought to a vote.  So No, No, No to any of harry reid's ideas.  He's the biggest reason congress has a 7% approval.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #164 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
Yet you didn't respond to your POTUS illegally deciding not to enforce the immigration law, which has lead us to the current crisis.


I hope you aren't surprised

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #165 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman
Put up a fence or a wall and they will tunnel under it. We need a double wall or fence where if they get by one they have another obsticle. That is a neutral zone. Even though they enter it they are on US territory. Warn them if they enter the neutral zone they will be apprehended and sent back.


I like that idea, we could put the EBT card recipients  to work on building it.  Do work son!

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
How many think we should enforce current laws and secure the border before taking up new immigration laws?


This reader says yes as the majority of Americans agree.  
Just on this forum, by obama worshipers will you read exactly opposite of what American citizens want.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #167 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Governor perry of Texas has invited barack to come visit the Texas border and see what's actually going on on our border. Do the readers think he will accept the invitation or will he go golfing instead?


bump

If obama doesn't go and see the toil it is taking on innocent people what could possibly be his reason.  The human suffering and drama is equal to that of Katrina victims who did not heed the warning to get out.  





How will obama explain his lack of compassion?  How will he explain the cost to OUR country?  He doesn't explain, he doesn't lead, he doesn't succeed.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,409
Reply with quote  #168 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue
Dewey -

You're wrong about one thing.  Both sides complain a lot about it.


bhblue - Not here and those are the only ones I can address personally.  It just seems to me if you favor the Speaker not bringing a bill to a vote then you lose the right to complain about Harry Reid doing it too.  Maybe I'm wrong but it seems a case of taking both sides of an issue.

As for your other point, we see it differently.  I see immigrants coming to pick the fruit, or other type jobs, thus keeping our prices down.  Let them through the legal door with a work permit and you'll see less demand to walk the border.
bhblue

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Posts: 1,963
Reply with quote  #169 
Ok Dewey, we agree. Now let's close the border, THEN send everyone here illegally back, and THEN start letting those fruit pickers apply to enter through your legal door. Anything but that, and no other, order is not acceptable.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,409
Reply with quote  #170 
bhblue - Deporting everyone back will never happen but I understand it's your position.  We'll have to wait this out like we waited out same sex marriage, health care reform, and like we're waiting out some gun legislation.  These things get straightened at the ballot box, not forums like ours.  Nonetheless, you're not afraid to share your position, in a mostly straightforward manner like woody does, and I do appreciate that.  I fully understand many people think differently than me. 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #171 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue
Dewey - If one night you caught an unknown person breaking into your house, where your family sleeps, to take what he has no right to, what would you do?  What do you think the majority of US citizens would do?  I see no difference between the two scenarios.

The support comment was to let you know that showing that an issue or bill has Republican support doesn't necessarily make it any more attractive to me.  I may very well be a Libertarian, I don't often consider what I am.  However, I often disagree with some Libertarians like the Pauls and John Stossel if that changes your designation.

You're wrong about one thing.  Both sides complain a lot about it.


I like how he skipped the majority of your post and then went right about demonizing the forum.  What happened to the unknowns in the house?  typical

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,409
Reply with quote  #172 
bhblue - Hopefully you understood my response.  I don't look at immigration as coming to take away but mostly coming to contribute.  Sorry for repeating this because I know you got it first time around.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #173 
You weren't too straight forward there mr. straightforward.  Unless you go back and edit, I don't see an answer at all.  These were your only 2 posts after his query.

Quote:

bhblue - Not here and those are the only ones I can address personally.  It just seems to me if you favor the Speaker not bringing a bill to a vote then you lose the right to complain about Harry Reid doing it too.  Maybe I'm wrong but it seems a case of taking both sides of an issue.

As for your other point, we see it differently.  I see immigrants coming to pick the fruit, or other type jobs, thus keeping our prices down.  Let them through the legal door with a work permit and you'll see less demand to walk the border.


Quote:
bhblue - Deporting everyone back will never happen but I understand it's your position.  We'll have to wait this out like we waited out same sex marriage, health care reform, and like we're waiting out some gun legislation.  These things get straightened at the ballot box, not forums like ours.  Nonetheless, you're not afraid to share your position, in a mostly straightforward manner like woody does, and I do appreciate that.  I fully understand many people think differently than me. 

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #174 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
bhblue - Hopefully you understood my response.  I don't look at immigration as coming to take away but mostly coming to contribute.  Sorry for repeating this because I know you got it first time around.


I missed your answer so I suspect more readers don't catch your answers. You really aren't that straightforward as you pretend to be.  woody and bhblue yes, I hope you aren't comparing yourself.

you really do not think these people are taking our resources?  unreal

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
 Let them through the legal door with a work permit and you'll see less demand to walk the border.


How can pregnant women and scabies infected 5 year olds obtain a work permit?  How?  They are leeches on our social structure!

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
bhblue

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Posts: 1,963
Reply with quote  #176 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
bhblue - Deporting everyone back will never happen but I understand it's your position.


That idea is one reason these people take the chance of getting here. That message is heard loud and clear and social and other media back in their crappy homelands spread the word.

You won't convince me that these people are here to contribute and don't end up taking. Even if it were so, they have absolutely no right to contribute to this country in any way as long as they are here illegally. These people are here because of the conditions in their homelands are for sh!t, IMO. Tough! The conditions in their country is not our problem. Sustaining, or rather recovering, good conditions in this country is our problem. Every dollar spent on these criminals is one not spent on those who do have a right to this country's resources.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,409
Reply with quote  #177 
bhblue - They are mostly here because the business community and American citizens invited the cheap labor.  We've allowed it for decades and we're not going to send them all back now.  If we make employment nearly impossible, for those who come illegally, most will stay home.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #178 
It costs a lot more to let them enter in the first place vs. let them enter, innoculate them, feed them and clothe them.  Even the left wing nutjobs should admit that.  If they don't then they are bankrupt of honesty.  Why let them here?   "because it's always been done that way", you wonder why you really aren't taken serious any longer
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
bhblue

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Posts: 1,963
Reply with quote  #179 
Dewey - Do you think non-citizens of this country have a right to be here, stay here, take here, or contribute here. If so, please cite where the constitution grants it.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 20,260
Reply with quote  #180 
why are the illegals on the border worth more, to those who support them, than the 100,000 that have been murdered in Syria and Iraq over the last 20-25 years?  Never a peep about the current day genocide

Why no threads and yack from the left that we find on this thread, about those murdered in Syria?  More blind faith as in "whatever, obama does is aok with me".  Why the selective salvation for some and others are left to die after a broken line in the sand.



__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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