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PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
If you're on the fence...

Please know that raising the debt ceiling is an issue that is generally not held hostage for the purpose of gaining favorable legislation, like is happening today.  Metaphorically speaking, I liken it to Democrats and the President being "waterboarded" by the Republicans...

  "Say it!  Zero revenues, zero revenues.  Say it!"   grgle...grgle...grgle...
 

The annual fiscal budget is fair game to fight over, tooth and nail.  Do what you have to do to obtain the budget you see fit.  Shut the Government down if you must.  However, to hold the overall financial picture of this Country, and her citizens, hostage by ignoring all our indebtedness previously negotiated, debated, and legislated by past sessions of Congress, is terribly unfair.  I certainly hope the vast majority of this Country can see exactly what's going on and will hold those responsible for the hostage taking accountable. 


Imagine if your employer withheld your pay until you agreed to sign the soon to be next contract for your services at lower compensation.  I suppose you'd say, "sir/maam, I earned that money.  Feel free to negotiate as hard as you wish on our next contract but that money you're holding was promised to me for service completed."  If your employer could get away with it, he'd have a lot of leverage holding your money.  That's what Republicans are doing today.  Not letting us pay our bills until we agree on how much to spend during the next cycle.

Most opinions throughout the centuries have agreed that giving into hostage taking simply invites more hostage taking down the road.  It's true, it's a hard line to take, but it must be held.  Not giving in will be extremely painful today, as it always is, but it's necessary to save many more heartaches, for everyone, in the future.  We talk about our concern for our children but I have to believe allowing political hostage taking to be successful may be one of the worst consequences we could ever allow to be passed down.

I say if Republicans want to rule the day, get out there, campaign, win two houses of Government, and run with it.  Allowing 230 some folks to stop everything in it's tracks is both dangerous and unfair.    

As opposed to letting 3 folks (Obama, Pelosi & Reid) stop everything in it's tracks is not only dangerous, unfair, but absolutely insane.


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woody

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Reply with quote  #32 
Dewey, you continue to carry bucket loads of shall we say water for this administration. I certainly had serious issues with President bush, why can you not have one objective thought about the lack of leadership shown by the Obama administration? I can only assume your check from the WH press secretary is still arriving on a timely basis each month.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
slideby7

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Reply with quote  #33 
Mr. Bolton, That was how I took this:"slideby 7 - OK, here are the "courtesy" answers as best I can."  Since you say it was not meant sarcastically I will take you at your word.  This is a problem with the written word vs the spoken word.  My apology.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
If you're on the fence...

Please know that raising the debt ceiling is an issue that is generally not held hostage for the purpose of gaining favorable legislation, like is happening today. 

Why then did every single Democrat currently in office that was in office under Bush vote against raising the debt ceiling then? Did they have a more noble reason than today's Republicans?

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#SCOTUS

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #35 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
If you're on the fence...

Please know that raising the debt ceiling is an issue that is generally not held hostage for the purpose of gaining favorable legislation, like is happening today. 

Why then did every single Democrat currently in office that was in office under Bush vote against raising the debt ceiling then? Did they have a more noble reason than today's Republicans?


spazsdad - As did all Republican Senators in Jan 2010, I believe these votes were political protests with the understanding they'd have no chance of actually preventing a raising of the debt ceiling.  I suppose we could consider ourselves fortunate that Republicans are not holding the end of welfare as we know it or making abortions illegal as part of their demands in exchange for raising this ceiling.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #36 

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Dewey, you continue to carry bucket loads of shall we say water for this administration.  I can only assume your check from the WH press secretary is still arriving on a timely basis each month.


woody - This is a tiresome argument that is totally irrelevant.  For the sake of this forum, let's assume you are right and we'll each continue to make our political cases as strongly as we can.  Paid or not, my beliefs, support, and passion for capital "D" leadership in this Country will not waver.  Can't fully understand why you want it to. 
woody

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Reply with quote  #37 
I don't object to your support of the Dem party, I simply question your blind loyalty. As I said before, I had serious problems with some of the Bush administration policies. You seem to follow blindly supporting any and everything this administration does. This is of concern when someone of your intellect follows so blindly and faithfully the party line without question. Defend at all cost, but dare not question what you defend.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #38 
slideby 7 - Accepted.  I totally agree with the problems created by the written word when no facial expressions are present.  I would have been smiling which is why I was astounded. In my mind, I simply replied with the courtesy that you mentioned.
 

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #39 

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
I don't object to your support of the Dem party, I simply question your blind loyalty. As I said before, I had serious problems with some of the Bush administration policies. You seem to follow blindly supporting any and everything this administration does.

woody - I've heard you say that before.  Unfortunately, you never shared any of your concerns with us while Bush was in office.  Come see me in 2016.   

woody

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Reply with quote  #40 
I disagree with you Dewey. I strongly disagreed with Bush on immigration. I also strongly opposed TARP, and I opposed the Patriot Act, and also Bush's deficit spending. These are things you can find if you search my post using your way back machine. Unfortunately, I am not willing to let you blow this off and see me in 2016. Please tell me one thing you have ever been critical of that this administration has done. I have given you my examples, but you continue to carry the bucket you were handed, and follow blindly. Why can you not be objective? 
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #41 

He can't be objective because he's been giving fellatio to this Administration, Harry Reid & Nancy Pelosi since Day 1.


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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #42 
PELOSI SAID SOMETHING THAT i HAVE TO AGREE WITH it will take a single day drop of 4-500 pts. in the stock market & main street 401Ks taking a hit for the congress & senate to get serious.
I think she is right on & if some type of plan for the debt crisis is not sorted out by Sunday[in general terms] that both sides say they could support[tea party included],I think you will see a BIG hit Monday in the market. IMO, S&P & Moody or one will downgrade prior to the Aug 3 deadline & you will than see another Big decline...Aug 3 comes & gos,maybe a 3rd hit.
JMO,but I see a hit of -10+ % by time this ends & interest rates will increase by months end.
Both sides are trying to make political hey out of this crisis,attempting to persuade us that they are working to solve a problem[s] that THEY in fact caused.
I listen to some of these idiots from both sides talk & it makes me realize how really out of touch most of them are...I have seen no less than 5-6 of the top leaders in business say that the 2 parties need to put this thing to rest & reach a compromise,still most of the politicians who have been nothing all their lives but politicians act & talk like they know better.
Personally, I wouldn't vote for most of these people for dog catcher.

And if the president is going to get on tv & do nothing but make accusations & turn around in the next breath and say we need to work with each other,he may as well head out to the links.....give me Reagan or Clinton,at least the 2 of them could work with the speaker of the house.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #43 

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
I disagree with you Dewey. I strongly disagreed with Bush on immigration.  

woody - I've searched this site numerous times and there were no political posts while Bush was in office.  Criticizing particular aspects of ones Administration after they leave office is easy.  Again, see me in 2016 and I'll reflect on some of Obama's mistakes, if any.

DaddyO

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Reply with quote  #44 
Scout - they are so used to playing the same selfish game that they can't see the forest for the trees.

I for one hope the August 2nd deadline comes and goes.  Then we get the reality check that we all need, and it won't be what the 'experts' tell us will happen.

The bottom line is:  if we don't show a 4 trillion dollar cut, we're gonna get downgraded.  Interest rates WILL go up, which will cause an increase in how much interest we pay back to the deficit.  Banks and states will dump T-bills because they will no longer be AAA-rated.  Clueless Bernake will probably order another trillion dollars of money to be printed, and inflation takes off.

Then, all hell breaks loose. 

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #45 
old scout - That working with the Speaker cuts both ways.  I have a feeling that there is too much Mitch McConnellism going on, "I will not do anything to help Obama get reelected".  Too much PARTY and too little nation.  Such an unworkable system that has worsened through the years !!   "The Washington Way" - YUK !!!    
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #46 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyO
Scout - they are so used to playing the same selfish game that they can't see the forest for the trees.

I for one hope the August 2nd deadline comes and goes.  Then we get the reality check that we all need, and it won't be what the 'experts' tell us will happen.

The bottom line is:  if we don't show a 4 trillion dollar cut, we're gonna get downgraded.  Interest rates WILL go up, which will cause an increase in how much interest we pay back to the deficit.  Banks and states will dump T-bills because they will no longer be AAA-rated.  Clueless Bernake will probably order another trillion dollars of money to be printed, and inflation takes off.

Then, all hell breaks loose. 
I agree with you on the must of a 4 trillion dollar in cuts & if it doesn't happen,you will probably see the downgrade even if debt limit is raised by a compromise with not at least $4T in cuts.

I would assume the value of my bonds will dive & INTEREST will go up on everything. Stocks will eventually come back.....inflation will indeed take off & we could see another time like 1980 when I first moved to Texas & took out a mortgage in the teens.
I see a lot of people not getting re-elected or at least I hope so.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #47 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - That working with the Speaker cuts both ways.  I have a feeling that there is too much Mitch McConnellism going on, "I will not do anything to help Obama get reelected".  Too much PARTY and too little nation.  Such an unworkable system that has worsened through the years !!   "The Washington Way" - YUK !!!    
The only difference is that Obama is the PRESIDENT & he will be remembered for the default,not congress/senate.

Think about it Reagan is remembered for tax cuts,not congress.
Bush is noted for starting the war with Iraq,not congress.
Clinton is noted for balancing our budget,not congress.
Obama is noted for passing HC[ even call it Obamacare],not congress
There are many of these examples on many of the presidents.
This[ FIRST DEFAULT EVER]  will be Obama's legacy & with him being the narcissist he is that will not make him happy.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

 The only difference is that Obama is the PRESIDENT & he will be remembered for the default,not congress/senate.

oldscout - Long term I suspect you're correct.  2012?  Uh uh.  These Republicans will pay the price.

PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #49 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - That working with the Speaker cuts both ways.  I have a feeling that there is too much Mitch McConnellism going on, "I will not do anything to help Obama get reelected".  Too much PARTY and too little nation.  Such an unworkable system that has worsened through the years !!   "The Washington Way" - YUK !!!    

Cuts both ways JG.  Too much "Party" when they shoved Obamacare down our throats.  But it's was ok because in November 2010 we shoved it up their ass at the polls just like it will be done again in 2012.  23 democratic senators up for re-election and 1 stubborn, rigid, narcisstic prick of a president.  We take 13 seats out of those 23 and we send the socialist prick back to the South Side of Chicago with his Klingon.  By my math that makes it 60 in the Senate.  Maybe we'll get lucky and Harry Reid drops dead of a heart attack and he swallows his tongue before they can call an ambulance.  A run off election in Nevada would be great.  Oh I forgot if Harry does drop dead then we end up with the WHINER Chucky Cheese Schumer (D-NY) as the head of the Dems in the Senate.  I swear to God this f*cking guy never met a camera or a microphone he didn't like.


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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #50 
This just goes to show you the stupidity of Obama Supporters.











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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

 The only difference is that Obama is the PRESIDENT & he will be remembered for the default,not congress/senate.

oldscout - Long term I suspect you're correct.  2012?  Uh uh.  These Republicans will pay the price.

If he gets re-elected it will not be for his record,but because the Republicans don't have anyone better than what they have at this time.

Did hear something on radio when out & about here in Texas that Ron Paul was within 4 pts.of Obama on a new poll by someone,I'll have to see if I can find anything on that.....now that would be a great debate,Paul/Obama


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #52 
old scout - You are so rational.   Yes, that's about it.   
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
woody

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Reply with quote  #53 
Oldscout, I can't imagine that Obama will be allowed to debate at all. Why would his handlers allow it? He has a large percentage of His base locked in, and they will vote for him no matter what, and I mean NO MATTER WHAT. Why would the campaign risk losing fence sitters by opening one's mouth? He will try to rekindle the rock star deal he had going, but most fence sitters wont be buying a ticket to that show, better come up with something else I suppose.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
POV

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Reply with quote  #54 
Seems the Repubs refuse to compromise on the Debt talks due to the fear of being "primaried".  Is it really any surprise that a politician will make choices that benefit themselves before they do what's necessary to benefit the Americans that he/she is sworn to represent
  
Gotta love that "party of NO"......thank God for those values, that morality and without question.....the selflessness.

Fears of Republican primary wars block path to reaching debt ceiling accord | syracuse.com


......on another note.After years on this board I can't remember when one poster declared that another poster was committing a sexual act on an elected official (or anyone else for that matter) just because they disagreed.........  truly a commemorative moment. 


Kudos to the Conservative Right.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #55 
PGP - Or the stupidity of the person who made those you tube presentations!  I have already gone on record as saying that our voting public in general doesn't have a clue, but one can't link that to one PARTY or the other.  It is a general condition, like corruption in the "Washington Way" and has no particular PARTY base.  
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #56 
(POV) if I remember correctly, dinger and several of the libs on here were calling us "Teabaggers" and that is a sexual act as well.
Kudos to the libs!

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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #57 
JD - I added to my vocabulary because I didn't know what teabagging was, and I pride myself on being a "street urchin" with "street smarts".  Maybe it's a generation thing?  I thought it was an English thing that happened at 3 in the afternoon.    
PS - By the way, my take on the debt debacle is that the Republicans care more about defeating Obama than they do about the needs of our nation. If I continue to believe that, I will vote against them in the next election, not for any candidate.   

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #58 
Joisey, I can see how you might think that, however many of us believe that raising taxes will hurt what little economic growth we might have and that cutting spending to reduce the debt is the only way. I don't mind if they raise the debt ceiling one time but only if we get significant deep cuts in spending. I believe that is what's best for America.
Obama thought he was cute with his slight of hand in the last budget deals. The Republicans trusted him and got burned. Now he is going to pay the price because they won't get snookered again.
PS Watch the movie Step Brothers and see what Teabagging is. Will Ferrell teabags John C Reilly's drum set. 

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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
DaddyO

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Reply with quote  #59 
Dear JD,

     You weren't supposed to remember that 'teabagger' reference that my allies used against the Tea Party folk.

Signed,
The Marxist Elements of This Board

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Scratch a reactionary leftist, find the fascist writhing underneath.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #60 
JD - I disagree with your first premise and agree with your second.  I don't think that raising taxes on the absurdly wealthy will affect economic growth at all.  They will still invest and reap.  I too believe that deep cuts in corrupt and wasteful spending accompanied by effective oversight of federal spending is what is best for our nation.  I know nothing of the "slight of hand" or the retribution.  I see PARTY politics in action in a crucial national situation today. 
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
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