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woody

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Reply with quote  #121 
JG, no doubt that increasing debt is a major threat to our nations sovereignty. However, many have dumped their EU holdings and have turned to the US. Regardless, being beholden to financial influence is a bad thing. As far as foreign aid, Israel is our only true ally in the ME. Japan, S Korea, Germany, and other NATO nations suck our military budget dry, and we have bases we built to show for it, with that comes a projection of power and the ability to deter aggressive actions from other nations that threaten our security, mainly oil for the NATO countries that hate us but like our protection. Throwing money at third world nations in an attempt to help their citizens is mostly a losing game. The hoods that run the countries take our cash and laugh at us. The ME countries like Egypt, Jordan, and the Saudi Royal family, and others are dysfunctional, and in the Arab Summer have proven to be less than good conduits for our taxpayer money and military support. The Iraqis and Afghans will be swallowed by Iran within 5 years of our military departure so why the waste of our young soldiers lives and our taxpayer money? I am strongly reaching the conclusion that the people in the Mid East are subservient lemmings that are being ruled by bad people, and have no self respect nor fortitude to change their situation. They are clans of tribes worse than in any T.E. Lawrence novel. They fight amongst themselves, butcher each other, use their women and children as chattel. I wish there were some way to intellectually get around the lengths of their barbaric nature, and lack of caring about human life, but the bare truth is that in places like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other ME nations they are proving themselves not only less than decent human beings, they are becoming less than humans. I wish I could say we are all just people and want good for our families, but the ME you tube feeds prove me wrong.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #122 

JG - Should the humanitarian expect anything in return for his contributions?  Should the wealthy if their taxes are raised? The biggest difference in the two is that one contribution is voluntary, while the other is mandated by those elected largely by the recipients of their contribution.  Maybe the humanitarians and the wealthy should get a larger say in how their contributions are used.

bhblue

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
As for the wealthy in our nation, I insist that they be left with enough money to maintain their lavish lifestyle after taxes are taken from their gross. 

That's very gracious of you to allow them a lifestyle that fits your definition of "lavish". 

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #124 
bhblue - You're welcome.  It is equally gracious of you to determine, or ignore,  the lifestyles of the poor and the very poor.    
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #125 

JG - I may or may not ignore their lifestyles, but certainly do not and should not determine them.  Self-reliance, resourcefulness, and accountability (or a lack thereof) have determined mine and will determine theirs.  Place the blame where it is most deserved.

woody

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Reply with quote  #126 
Ah I see JG, Leninism. So the deep thinkers should rule over the downtrodden whom look to them for sustenance?? And those that are the producers should defer wealth under risk of ruin to the deep thinkers to allocate?
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
swifty

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Posts: 941
Reply with quote  #127 
JG

After you "tax the crap out of the wealthy", what will be their incentive to continue working very hard to earn those extra dollars beyond what you have determined is a proper lavish lifestyle?  If it were me, I might just say screw it, if I'm only allowed to net $1 million, why work harder to make $2 million just to hand it over to the government.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #128 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty
JG

After you "tax the crap out of the wealthy", what will be their incentive to continue working very hard to earn those extra dollars beyond what you have determined is a proper lavish lifestyle?  
 
I think Matt Damon put that incentive argument to rest.  I think people work for other reasons than just take home pay.
swifty

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Reply with quote  #129 
Oh, well if Matt Damon says it, that's all I need to know.  Matt Damon, now there's an authority.  I feel so much better now.

Dewey, seriously?  Matt Damon?  Are you trying to be funny? Or are you that naive?

I don't know the man, but I will GUARANTEE you that Matt Damon will not be making his next movie for free or for a modest salary of say $100,000, just because he "loves" acting.  He's full of sh*t!
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #130 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue

  Self-reliance, resourcefulness, and accountability (or a lack thereof) have determined mine and will determine theirs.  Place the blame where it is most deserved.


Yes, you're pretty self reliant when you place your life savings into the stock market only to see them plummet by the shenanigans of insiders in an unregulated Wall Street.  You're pretty self reliant to suffer a tragedy only to see your unregulated insurance company unable to cover your losses while going belly up.  You're pretty self reliant when your child becomes seriously ill and your insurance runs out.

Maybe it's all about self reliance and nothing more.  I doubt it's that simple.  As I said long ago, (not directed at you bhblue), those who sexually experimented in their youth and fortunately avoided parenthood as teenagers, those who didn't have to change their life and care for that family member who was hit and injured by a drunk uninsured driver, or those who had the resources or connections for an extended education might be thought of by some as a little more lucky than self reliant.  Maybe that's a little unfair too.   

swifty

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Posts: 941
Reply with quote  #131 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty
JG

After you "tax the crap out of the wealthy", what will be their incentive to continue working very hard to earn those extra dollars beyond what you have determined is a proper lavish lifestyle?  If it were me, I might just say screw it, if I'm only allowed to net $1 million, why work harder to make $2 million just to hand it over to the government.

JG

Still waiting for an answer from you to the question I posed above.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #132 
Swifty - Good old American pride in achievement mixed with greed and a high priced tax lawyer.  Answered !
Wait no more.   

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
woody

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Posts: 9,034
Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue

  Self-reliance, resourcefulness, and accountability (or a lack thereof) have determined mine and will determine theirs.  Place the blame where it is most deserved.


Yes, you're pretty self reliant when you place your life savings into the stock market only to see them plummet by the shenanigans of insiders in an unregulated Wall Street.  You're pretty self reliant to suffer a tragedy only to see your unregulated insurance company unable to cover your losses while going belly up.  You're pretty self reliant when your child becomes seriously ill and your insurance runs out.

Maybe it's all about self reliance and nothing more.  I doubt it's that simple.  As I said long ago, (not directed at you bhblue), those who sexually experimented in their youth and fortunately avoided parenthood as teenagers, those who didn't have to change their life and care for that family member who was hit and injured by a drunk uninsured driver, or those who had the resources or connections for an extended education might be thought of by some as a little more lucky than self reliant.  Maybe that's a little unfair too.   

Dewey, nobody other than yourself and your greed for profit made you invest in the stock market. If you don't like Stock Market, then sit on a CD earning less than the inflation rate and hope for a strong US dollar. It is your choice for now until your Master says otherwise. Funny how being a Liberal conflicts with being a self sufficient responsible individual trying to turn an investment of your own labor into a profit for your own benefit isn't it. 

__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #134 
Oh woody.  I'm a self sufficient individual who also carries a business title of President, for whatever that's worth.  As for me, I find it funny when those who do find success often tend to find something wrong with those who don't.  I'm not a religious man but I think the following phrase remains worthy...

      "There but for the grace of God, go I."
woody

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Posts: 9,034
Reply with quote  #135 
Hey Dewey, I have the unfortunate title of President of two corporations, but who in their right minds gives a rats patutity? I built both companies, my name is on record as is yours as President, but yet I feel no guilt. I have no formal education compared to you and others on this board. I had no hand up, or bootstrap of a government handout. I had no program to hold my hand in forming my ideals to form a corporation, no government taxpayer subsidized paper pusher to tell me how to do it. I had parents with no more than a high school education or less. I did it on my own, without help from anyone, and I feel no obligation, let alone any responsibility, nor for that matter any damn guilt to inspire me to give what I have worked for to any Democratic beholding Liberal porch sitter. Sorry if this offends you, but I do the digging in the ditches, and I do the government forms, paperwork, licensing, permits and tax returns, yet I feel no guilt for having worked my ass off in the Texas Sun. Why do you feel guilty for doing what you were put on earth to do?
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #136 

woody - I don't feel guilt, I feel fortunate.  I applaud all your accomplishments and think maybe your best career could have been as a painter.  With the brush you carry, you could paint the side of a barn with one swipe.  If you get my drift, that's where you and I are miles apart. 

woody

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Posts: 9,034
Reply with quote  #137 
The only difference Sir is that you carry a half bucket of paint, and expect me to cover the rest of your side of the barn with my time, paint and and hard effort for you and your Liberal party's ideological benefit.   
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #138 
If you're on the fence...

You've probably heard several members here repeatedly say that when emergency Government funds are used to keep teachers, cops, and firemen on the job during difficult economic times, these folks are actually little more than conduits used to pass on funds to unions who then pass the money on to politicians in order to get them re-elected, (how much are these union dues anyway)?  However, these same folks seem to suggest if we pass on billions in the form of tax cuts to "job producers", the money is simply used to hire more people and not to fund political campaigns or hire lobbyists.  Nahhhh, not even one percent or whatever the level union dues might be. 

If you are on the fence, please don't buy the premise that unions buy politicians and Corporations only buy jobs.  You're smarter than that.       
swifty

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Reply with quote  #139 
If you're on the fence....

Jump, as quickly as you can to the "right" side of the fence before you fall into the pile of dung that the liberals have piled up on the "left" side.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #140 

If you're on the fence...


Please look at these US Government receipts with each percentage based on five year growth:

1985     $ .734 Trillion
1990     $1.032 Trillion   Up 40.6% over five years
1995     $1.351 Trillion   Up 30.9%
2000     $2.025 Trillion   Up 49.9% 
2005     $2.153 Trillion   Up 6.32%  (Recession and Bush tax cuts)
2010     $2.163 Trillion   Up  .5%    (Financial collapse, tax cuts continue)
2015     $3.237 Trillion   Up 49.7%  (Number comes from Ryan budget est, 
                                               OMB says 3.487 Trillion, economy
                                               in recovery mode)


If anyone tries to tell you we have no revenue problem, pull out these numbers.  Admittedly, lower receipts requires us to restrict spending growth too.  However, now is not the time to overdo this and take too much money out of the economy.  The consumer is not spending and it's up to the Government, imo, to invest in this economy and get it back to full speed.  SS is taking in about the same as is going out and need not be addressed at this particular moment.  Long term, yes.  No one is suggesting we overly grow Government Department spending but investment in education, infrastructure, and technologies of the future will improve the immediate and long term receipts picture.  Receipt numbers hereRyan budget here, page 62.  There can be no denying that between 2000 and 2010 the growth of our receipts dropped dramatically and it will take time to recover that lost revenue.  At least consider these numbers before you buy into the argument that we have spent ourselves into oblivion.


PS:  By the way, the FY2012 budget projects receipts at $2.627 Trillion.  

    


woody

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Posts: 9,034
Reply with quote  #141 
as always, spend more money, print more money, and tax more. repeat as necessary until utopia has been reached, or country collapses.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #142 

woody - Try to stay on point for once.  This post was about receipts, not spending.  Many here say receipts have little to do with our deficit problems and I tried to make a solid case to the contrary.  Can you address anything in my post directly?   

woody

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Posts: 9,034
Reply with quote  #143 
I believe that you could increase revenue 100% and the Liberal Democrats, Rhino Republicans, and career bureaucrats would spend it all before it reached the treasury. Our Big Government entitlement recipients, and unionized civil servants, our farmers and big oil, as well as green energy companies that suddenly popped up, and the airlines, and auto manufacturers demand it. Keep spending, keep spending. Then print some more money and devalue the dollar and throw it into a cesspool stimulus program, but at all cost keep spending and buy those votes.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #144 

I guess that's a no.

woody

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Posts: 9,034
Reply with quote  #145 
Pretty heads up guess on your part Dewey, you amaze me with your never ending loyalty and effort as head water boy. 
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #146 
woody - Don't you have Friday night happy hour in your State?  Geez. 

I'm loyal to a Progressive agenda and my heart's in it.  How about the candidates who all raised their hand last night?  Was that some kind of blind loyalty or were their hearts truly in it?  Gotta wonder.
swifty

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Posts: 941
Reply with quote  #147 
Dewey

Is it that hard to believe that if you don't believe our financial problems are due to a lack of revenue and that the government spends too much as is, that you would not agree to any tax increases under any circumstances?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #148 

swifty - I'm not sure what to believe.  The Conservative American Spectator I linked didn't appear to buy their unanimous vote.  It's equivalent to being offered the end of every Dept in the Government, except Defense, and the end of Medicaid spending if you'll end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, and still saying no.  That's probably about $900 Billion vs $90 Billion.

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #149 

If you're on the fence...

Be wary of spin like we heard from Margaret Hoover on the Bill Maher show.  She claimed the unemployment rate when Obama took office was 7.5%.  She is accurate in her claim but, here is the spin:

May, June, July, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, and Dec of 2008 saw the unemployment rate rise each and every month under President Bush.  Obama jumped in during Jan 2009 as this rate continued to rise for another nine months until it hit 10.2%.  This is when Obama finally halted this unfortunate growth and has managed to bring it down a bit to where it is today, 9.1%.  To pick a spot in the middle of this tragic loss of jobs as Obama's starting point is grossly unfair.  It's like a new pilot replacing another in order to rescue a doomed airplane only to be held accountable for the failure of the the final 12,000 feet.

Edit:  For comparison purposes, the last Republican Administration had a 4% unemployment rate when they took office and ended with a 7.6% rate, an increase of 90%.

bluedog

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Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #150 
Obama was gonna help the poor, the unemployed and the homeowners....He printed gobs of money and spent it.... Well, the poor are still waiting, the unemployed are still jobless and the homeowners are losing their homes....America's credit rating has been lowered....The stock market is hanging over a cliff.....And, we're being told we need to send more of our money to Washington.....

Sounds like a western where the Lone Ranger and Tonto rides in for the rescue with guns a-blazing....They better hurry!
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