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Softballfanatic

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Reply with quote  #91 
If you're on the fence, watch this video. Its not just the deficit that is the problem people, it is the debt! We need to get past the deficit to a surplus and pay down the debt. As long as we have a deficit, the debt continues to grow!



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Jerry Wallace "For The Love Of The Game"
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #92 
Don't raise the debt ceiling.....





oldscout

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Reply with quote  #93 

Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
Old scout et al be honest...you would take anything he said in that speech as divisive and not good for the country! " we all hear what we want hear and disregard the rest". I have been reading some of these posts for weeks now and nothing any of you say is new. It's interesting that president Reagan's handling of economic struggles was brought up in president Obama's speech.
In truth, I don't know how either party can navigate in the toxic environment they have created (reading the misc. forum is a good sample of toxic).
I think Obama has the best chance of working something out and despite the whining by the Speaker of the House...he has impressed me somewhat lately and I think he is putting good effort!
Dewey you are the superman of political discussions!!!
On reading the posts & seeing nothing new. Let me ask you,did the president say anything new last night? The first 5-6 sentences on Bush,wars,economy, etc.I have heard those lines a 1000 times,he doesn't need the tele for those has them pretty much memorized by now.

I guess what bothers me is the fact that he got up in prime time & lied to the senior citizens about they might not be able to send out SS checks. That is a BOLD FACED LIE. If you don't know how it works,I will be happy to explain it to you....but I see it as sad if you don't understand it & condone his doing that.
Stretching the truth or facts a little on an interview on FNC,CNN/ABC,etc.is one thing. But stepping up on national TV to speak about a matter as serious as this & not telling the truth is stooping to a NEW LOW.

From your posts I know you are a teacher & I think probably a very good one. I doubt you would get up in front of your classroom & tell the students something you know is not true.
One thing I did not consider is if Obama really believes that & doesn't understand himself ,why the checks would go out even in case of default...now that would be very sad indeed.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #94 
If I don't like someone, it is very difficult  for me to give him a fair judgment about anything, try as I might.  The reverse is also true.  I battle myself on this, and do better than most I think, but never really reach absolute objectivity.  Usually it is tone that directs my dislike bias, but not always.  You can imagine how difficult a fair judgment is for people who are cemented into their beliefs and perspectives and run into someone who does not share their beliefs and perspectives.  Yikes !!!    
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #95 

JG- I'll ask you[think I already did to no avail]just the same...doesn't it bother you just a little that a president would go on national TV & not only not have a plan,but go on for the sole purpose of trying to scare the bejebbers out of millions with an untruth?


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #96 
" It is the responsibility of citizens to support their Government,It is not the responsibility of the Government to support the citizens".
By no other President Cleveland[ Think this guy was a democrat]

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #97 

" Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy,
 its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".
      - Winston Churchill-
WOW....

Maybe thats what the president was talking about all of us sharing?


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
bobstevens

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Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

" Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".
- Winston Churchill-
WOW....

Maybe thats what the president was talking about all of us sharing?



It doesn't appear that there has been much sharing going on the past few years.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/26/news/economy/wealth_gap_white_black_hispanic/
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstevens
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

" Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".
- Winston Churchill-
WOW....

Maybe thats what the president was talking about all of us sharing?



It doesn't appear that there has been much sharing going on the past few years.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/26/news/economy/wealth_gap_white_black_hispanic/
I know what you mean...dang those rich people. If we could only get their money & spread it out.

I for one don't consider myself rich,but I do take responsibility for myself & my family. we live within our means & I have worked for every dime I have.

I truly believe that we as citizens have to take much of the blame for the pickle we are in.While we all like to blame the other guy,the fact of the matter is it is all a reflection of our own actions.Far too many have decided it is easier to have the government provide for them[us] & give us " things '.The problem is most have no real understanding of the true cost to have them do just that...jmo.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
bobstevens

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Reply with quote  #100 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstevens
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

" Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".
- Winston Churchill-
WOW....

Maybe thats what the president was talking about all of us sharing?



It doesn't appear that there has been much sharing going on the past few years.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/26/news/economy/wealth_gap_white_black_hispanic/
I know what you mean...dang those rich people. If we could only get their money & spread it out.




I didn't say the solution was to spread the money out.  I just think it's ridiculous to say that our govt has been stealing from the rich and giving it to the poor, and we are becoming a nation of socialists.  I also think you can admit the fact that people who are born into families of great wealth have an advantage over people born into poverty.  Whether or not you like that fact, or dislike that fact, it's the truth.  It also is factual that white families are generally richer than blacks or Hispanics. 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #101 
old scout - I expect politicians to lie, and cheat, and steal, and do whatever is necessary to get elected. It's the "Washington Way".  I expected Bush Jr. to lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq too.  Besides, I didn't hear or read the speech, so I don't know exactly what he said.  Am I embarrassed when my President lies outright to the American people - absolutely yes, but I'm not surprised when one does.  "The Big Lie" is actually a political tactic.  I continue to walk the beach holding my lantern, in search of an honest man as did Diogenes the Cynic.    
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #102 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstevens
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstevens
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

" Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".
- Winston Churchill-
WOW....

Maybe thats what the president was talking about all of us sharing?



It doesn't appear that there has been much sharing going on the past few years.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/26/news/economy/wealth_gap_white_black_hispanic/
I know what you mean...dang those rich people. If we could only get their money & spread it out.




I didn't say the solution was to spread the money out.  I just think it's ridiculous to say that our govt has been stealing from the rich and giving it to the poor, and we are becoming a nation of socialists.  I also think you can admit the fact that people who are born into families of great wealth have an advantage over people born into poverty.  Whether or not you like that fact, or dislike that fact, it's the truth.  It also is factual that white families are generally richer than blacks or Hispanics. 

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #103 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstevens
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstevens
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

" Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery".
- Winston Churchill-
WOW....

Maybe thats what the president was talking about all of us sharing?



It doesn't appear that there has been much sharing going on the past few years.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/26/news/economy/wealth_gap_white_black_hispanic/
I know what you mean...dang those rich people. If we could only get their money & spread it out.




I didn't say the solution was to spread the money out.  I just think it's ridiculous to say that our govt has been stealing from the rich and giving it to the poor, and we are becoming a nation of socialists.  I also think you can admit the fact that people who are born into families of great wealth have an advantage over people born into poverty.  Whether or not you like that fact, or dislike that fact, it's the truth.  It also is factual that white families are generally richer than blacks or Hispanics. 
Can't disagree with much you say.

I do think it might help politicians & this country get a little more done if they would spend as much time trying to get along as they do spouting off about class warfare.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #104 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - I expect politicians to lie, and cheat, and steal, and do whatever is necessary to get elected. It's the "Washington Way".  I expected Bush Jr. to lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq too.  Besides, I didn't hear or read the speech, so I don't know exactly what he said.  Am I embarrassed when my President lies outright to the American people - absolutely yes, but I'm not surprised when one does.  "The Big Lie" is actually a political tactic.  I continue to walk the beach holding my lantern, in search of an honest man as did Diogenes the Cynic.    
that is sad.

Might be true what you say,but me,I expect more & I will at least let them know my feelings. Hasn't done much for me,except in a couple of times. Mostly,just makes me feel better to let them know how I feel about what they did or didn't do....that is my small contribution to my great country.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #105 
http://wcfcourier.com/news/opinion/clayson/debt-limit-talks-show-two-visions-of-america/article_805c9642-b5a3-11e0-a242-001cc4c03286.html
Another opine from my Iowa buddy...short read,kind of hits on a few points.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
slideby7

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Reply with quote  #106 
Mr.  Bolton, I would be very interested in hearing why you expected  President Bush to lie about WMD's, particularly in light of the fact that at 16 intelligence agencies from around the world were convinced Iraq had them.

I am also curious about something else.  I will preface by stating that Dewey makes no bones about being a liberal Democrat.  You on the other hand maintain you are independent and yet almost every single issue discussed in these political threads finds your position left of center to varying degrees.  Please help me understand how you square this.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #107 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - I expect politicians to lie, and cheat, and steal, and do whatever is necessary to get elected. It's the "Washington Way".  I expected Bush Jr. to lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq too.  Besides, I didn't hear or read the speech, so I don't know exactly what he said.  Am I embarrassed when my President lies outright to the American people - absolutely yes, but I'm not surprised when one does.  "The Big Lie" is actually a political tactic.  I continue to walk the beach holding my lantern, in search of an honest man as did Diogenes the Cynic.    
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576468771171844358.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop jg-said you didn't hear the speech.here is a short recap[ of course it is from WSJ so beware]

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
masare

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Reply with quote  #108 
Slideby, why does he have to square anything? Posting here is so frustrating because some posters are not happy unless everyone's position is locked in a steel vault of labels! I guess the labels help some folks feel safe but it doesn't help much with a discussion where an open mind is required. Jmho
DaddyO

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Reply with quote  #109 
Quote:
Slideby, why does he have to square anything? Posting here is so frustrating because some posters are not happy unless everyone's position is locked in a steel vault of labels! I guess the labels help some folks feel safe but it doesn't help much with a discussion where an open mind is required. Jmho
 


I don't mind labels because I don't care who knows what I think and how I think.  I have no desire to 'sneak around'; to appear to be one thing while I am in fact something else.  I enjoy the sunshine! 

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Scratch a reactionary leftist, find the fascist writhing underneath.
POV

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Reply with quote  #110 
Quote:
I don't mind labels because I don't care who knows what I think and how I think.  I have no desire to 'sneak around'; to appear to be one thing while I am in fact something else.  I enjoy the sunshine!



Wanabe.......words to comtemplate. 

slideby7

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Posts: 818
Reply with quote  #111 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
Slideby, why does he have to square anything? Posting here is so frustrating because some posters are not happy unless everyone's position is locked in a steel vault of labels! I guess the labels help some folks feel safe but it doesn't help much with a discussion where an open mind is required. Jmho


Ms./Mr. Masare,  He doesn't have to square anything.  It was simply a question regarding his posts.  It is thus far clearly evident that he chooses not to respond unless he has not seen my post.  Since you find posting here so frustration, you might want to consider not doing so.  As far as the labels you refer to, I didn't label him, he labeled himself.  I think even you would agree that having an open mind might include the ability to respond to a reasonable question asking for on to clarify his or her position on an issue.  Have a nice day.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #112 
http://www.lakenewsonline.com/opinions/x1217536136/Chris-Britt-cartoon-on-Democrats-and-Republicans-working-together
Take a look at this...what is sad is it is true & funny

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #113 
If you are on the fence...

Please know there will likely be dozens of votes, in the years to come, to increase the debt ceiling before this Country gets through this economic crisis and eventually reaches a balanced budget.  The financial collapse was enormous and full recovery will take time.  Now take a moment to decide if you'd find it wise to attach conditions such as a balance budget amendment, scrapping the Health Care Act, abolishing the Dept of Education, raising or lowering the top income tax rates, restricting abortion, or some other favorite issue of the day before we agreed to vote for avoiding default by raising the debt ceiling.  I certainly think it's unwise but I believe we have now set a precedent where these methods will be repeated over and over again until an actual default finally brings us to our senses and we put an end to this new-found and extremely unethical practice.  That is unless we elect folks who are disgusted by this political maneuver, one Senator McConnell says should continue to be exercised each and every time this vote comes up.  Then again, maybe you have a different perspective over this debacle we just experienced and are prepared to periodically push the financial well being of our Country to the brink of disaster or beyond.      
DaddyO

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Reply with quote  #114 
"Please know there will likely be dozens of votes, in the years to come, to increase the debt ceiling before this Country gets through this economic crisis and eventually reaches a balanced budget."

If that's the case, we won't ever balance the budget.  Why bother when you can just keep borrowing?  Where's the incentive to balance?
 
"The financial collapse was enormous and full recovery will take time. Now take a moment to decide if you'd find it wise to attach conditions such as:
 
a balance budget amendment
 
Of course.  This will save us money and hopefully lead to no more stupid debt ceiling votes, eliminating your worry about alleged 'unethical' practices. 
 
scrapping the Health Care Act
 
HELL YES!  This will save us a LOT of money over the next ten years.
 
abolishing the Dept of Education
 
What do they do?  Yes, please.  Let the states run their own education systems.
  
raising or lowering the top income tax rates
 
It's been shown over and over again that lowering the rates across the board stimulates economic activity which in turn brings more revenue into the treasury.  I can't believe we're still having this argument.  Anyone who argues to the contrary is afflicted by greed, envy or both.
 
restricting abortion
 
That's a social issue, not an economic one.
 
or some other favorite issue of the day
 
like climate change?  How much money did we want to throw down the Kyoto Protocol rathole?
 
before we agreed to vote for avoiding default by raising the debt ceiling. I certainly think it's unwise but I believe we have now set a precedent where these methods will be repeated over and over again until an actual default finally brings us to our senses and we put an end to this new-found and extremely unethical practice.
 
So you would be happy with a default just so Republicans 'play nice'?  Why am I not surprised?
 
That is unless we elect folks who are disgusted by this political maneuver, one Senator McConnell says should continue to be exercised each and every time this vote comes up. Then again, maybe you have a different perspective over this debacle we just experienced and are prepared to periodically push the financial well being of our Country to the brink of disaster or beyond.

Thanks for this 16-inch softball.  It is the runaway SPENDING that brought us to the brink of disaster, not a small group of House Republicans who see that we have to make major changes to the way we spend The People's Money.  If we keep having debt ceiling votes, default won't be far away.  We may not have to have another one.
 
In the meantime, let's define a government 'cut' as a reduction of current spending, not a reduction of the increase of future spending.


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Scratch a reactionary leftist, find the fascist writhing underneath.
woody

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Reply with quote  #115 
When looking at our Congress work, we are often in a glass bubble. I read other news sources from outside the USA. The Economist a UK based magazine usually gives a different perspective, albeit a Left leaning one on many social issues. Spiegel has a pretty good article combining observations from several different newspapers, and prefaces each article with the political leaning of each paper before each excerpt. Link is here: 

I pasted the article from there.

After weeks of acrimony, the US Senate votes Tuesday on a compromise measure to raise the country's debt ceiling. The bill has drawn criticism from members of both parties, but it will likely pass just in time to save the US from default. German commentators on Tuesday express their frustration over the brinksmanship.

Info

A last-minute deal to raise the US debt ceiling will probably pass on Tuesday, saving the country from defaulting on its debt but leaving both Democrats and Republicans dissatisfied.

The bill would lift the current $14.3 trillion debt ceiling until 2013, after the November 2012 federal elections. It calls for $2.1 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years, and it would create a special bipartisan congressional committee charged with drafting a deficit-reduction package by November.

Republican leaders in the House faced the press Monday, saying they would support the deal. Speaker of the House John Boehner, who had to table an earlier proposal because of opposition from the Republicans' "Tea Party" wing, was able to rally more than two-thirds of his Republican colleagues behind the latest bill.

The House of Representatives passed the measure Monday by a vote of 269 to 161. Democrats, many of whom were angry at the absence of any tax increases, split their votes evenly. Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords from Arizona made her first appearance on Capitol Hill since being shot in the head outside a Tucson grocery store in January; she voted in favor of the proposal.

The Senate plans to vote on the measure at noon EST. Passage is considered likely since it has the support of both Republican and Democratic leaders in the Senate, and Obama has not threatened to veto. But the state of the US economy continued to weigh heavily on financial markets and on public opinion: Global markets fell Tuesday morning after weak manufacturing data out of the United States furthered concerns that the country might be headed for another recession.

A new study by the Pew Research Center in Washington found that 72 percent of American characterized the recent budget negotiations as "ridiculous, disgusting, stupid, and frustrating." In Germany, where the Tea Party has become a household name, commentators also expressed their frustration with Washington.

The center-left Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:

"No one can forget the Civil War atmosphere in which this debt fight has taken place. It weighs on America's international reputation. From the point of view of financial markets, the dysfunctional nature of Washington is a risk factor that must be calculated for in the future."

"But America is not Greece ... The capital market is fruitful, and behind everything is an efficient and productive national economy. Nevertheless, the American and European debt crises are connected. Never before in times of peace have the budgets of industrialized countries been so debt-ridden. That translates into a major weakening of the parts of the world that are still called the 'West.'"

"The countries that until recently had controlled the destiny of the world, now largely find themselves on an unsustainable financial path. The grotesque behavior in Washington over the past weeks have made that abundantly clear. But the fact that the European debt crisis has noticeably not been solved yet (also) costs Europe influence in the world."

The left-leaning Die Tageszeitung writes:

"What is happening in Washington is nothing less than a culture war. On President Obama's side are supporters of a national concept, like one known in Europe, namely that the state should take care of a certain amount of social equalizing, and if necessary, intervene with regulations. For his opposition, even Obama's idea of expanding health insurance coverage equals the birth of communist totalitarianism."

"Anyone who raises taxes or increases the debt ceiling, and therefore unleashes the Leviathan of 'big government,' is, according to their logic, threatening the highest ideal that the American revolutionaries fought for: freedom. Those who do it will be pursued by these self-named patriots with virtually pathological hatred, even when the infrastructure or social benefits would profit from their undertakings. Illogical? Patriotism is possibly the only thing that many uncertain American citizens have left. The crisis has not only cost them their jobs; it has also threatened their country's hegemony. And a solution for none of these problems seems apparent."

The center-right Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes:

"Even though many liberal Democrats and their base perceive it to be true, the charge that President Obama capitulated to the right wing of the Republican party is silly. It is this war-like rhetoric that has so poisoned American politics. What should the president, who also has to think of his own re-election, and the Democratic leaders in Congress, do when the Republicans collectively turn a deaf ear to the issue of tax increases and are resolute in their opposition?"

"Should they accept partial insolvency of the United States and risk great damages to their own and the world's economies? That would have been irresponsible and would have been equal to the stubborn refusal to compromise exhibited by part of the Republican Party -- for whom the agreed-upon cuts don't go far enough, and who therefore broke with the leadership of their own party. It speaks volumes that among them is a Republican presidential hopeful."

The Financial Times Deutschland writes:

"The world can calm down -- with this savings package, the American economy won't go under. Export nations like Germany don't need to fear that one of their biggest markets will collapse."

"The Americans could have made things easier for themselves and the rest of the world. It was extremely dangerous to turn the issue of the debt ceiling -- raised seven times under Obama's predecessor, George W. Bush -- into a fight over the role of government."

"Still, the Americans are taking on their debt problems and trying to find a long-term solution. The debt burden per person is, in the end, almost as high as in Greece. Ideally they could have agreed on more than just the deficit reduction. The Democrats have long lobbied for higher taxes on the most wealthy. It is a shame that they couldn't push that through."

The business daily Handelsblatt writes:

"In the eyes of his voters, Obama abandoned important positions to get a compromise. There will be considerable cuts in health care for the elderly and needy, but no tax increase for the rich to speak of."

"Many liberal Democrats, independents, minorities and socially disadvantaged in 2012 will think about whether they want to go to the polls. If the ratings agencies were to downgrade the country's credit rating, Obama's chances at re-election would sink further, and this national disgrace would be forever associated with his presidency."

"Obama .... will have a much harder time than in prior elections because he'd convinced his supporters that he would end the divide in America. But he's failed to prove that he can really achieve that. 'No, he can't' should be the conclusion of disappointed voters."

-- Mary Beth Warner




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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #116 
woody - Thank you for posting these perspectives from abroad.  What I notice is that neither left nor right abroad has a very positive picture of contemporary politics in the USA.  
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
woody

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Reply with quote  #117 
JG, not many nations like us to begin with, so I take everything I read with that jagged pill administered beforehand. I know most don't like us for some sort of military or economic power projection at present or in some point in time in history. But I think the fact that we are a free (for now) and fiercely independent nation that irks other nations the most. You see, for the time being we don't have to play nice with others and compromise with UN member states when it contradicts our own interest, and threatens our security and independence. This is something many EU member states and lessor nations cannot do. 
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #118 
woody - Don't you think that our owing several nations huge amounts of money compromises what we used to be?  Don't misunderstand me - we are still a power broker internationally, regarded as a Capitalist Imperialist state by some, but our debt might just reduce our negotiating power abroad.  Also, is the amount of money donated to foreign powers (comes out of our tax dollars) by the USA worth what we get in return?  
 

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #119 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Also, is the amount of money donated to foreign powers (comes out of our tax dollars) by the USA worth what we get in return?

JG - I'm a bit surprised that you would expect something in return from the "less fortunate" countries of the world.  It doesn't seem to mesh with your stance on taxing the rich in this country. 

The 3 countries receiving the most foreign add are Afghanistan ($2.6 billion), Pakistan (1.5 billion), and Egypt (1.3 billion).  Based on this, my answer is absolutely not.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #120 
bhblue - Clever use of words, but absolutely irrelevant.  Apples and Oranges.  I would support aid to Somalia if we could get it through, but not Pakistan or Syria.  
I do support humanitarian endeavors, but not political or military financial machinations.  As for the wealthy in our nation, I insist that they be left with enough money to maintain their lavish lifestyle after taxes are taken from their gross.  See, I'm even a white collar humanitarian.    

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