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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #1 

I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise.

 
 
 
 
By Leah Libresco October 3, 2017
Leah Libresco is a statistician and former newswriter at FiveThirtyEight, a data journalism site. She is the author of “Arriving at Amen.”

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.
Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.

researched the strictly tightened gun laws in Britain and Australia and concluded that they didn’t prove much about what America’s policy should be. Neither nation experienced drops in mass shootings or other gun related-crime that could be attributed to their buybacks and bans. Mass shootings were too rare in Australia for their absence after the buyback program to be clear evidence of progress. And in both Australia and Britain, the gun restrictions had an ambiguous effect on other gun-related crimes or deaths.

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When I looked at the other oft-praised policies, I found out that no gunowner walks into the store to buy an “assault weapon.” It’s an invented classification that includes any semi-automatic that has two or more features, such as a bayonet mount, arocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount, a folding stock or a pistol grip. But guns are modular, and any hobbyist can easily add these features at home, just as if they were snapping together Legos.
 
As for silencers — they deserve that name only in movies, where they reduce gunfire to a soft puick puick. In real life, silencers limit hearing damage for shooters but don’t make gunfire dangerously quiet. An AR-15 with a silencer is about as loud as a jackhammer. Magazine limits were a little more promising, but a practiced shooter could still change magazines so fast as to make the limit meaningless.

As my co-workers and I kept looking at the data, it seemed less and less clear that one broad gun-control restriction could make a big difference. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the United Statesevery year are suicides. Almost no proposed restriction would make it meaningfully harder for people with guns on hand to use them. I couldn't even answer my most desperate question: If I had a friend who had guns in his home and a history of suicide attempts, was there anything I could do that would help?

However, the next-largest set of gun deaths — 1 in 5 — were young men aged 15 to 34, killed in homicides. These men were most likely to die at the hands of other young men, often related to gang loyalties or other street violence. And the last notable group of similar deaths was the 1,700 women murdered per year, usually as the result of domestic violence. Far more people were killed in these ways than in mass-shooting incidents, but few of the popularly floated policies were tailored to serve them.

By the time we published our project, I didn’t believe in many of the interventions I’d heard politicians tout. I was still anti-gun, at least from the point of view of most gun owners, and I don’t want a gun in my home, as I think the risk outweighs the benefits. But I can’t endorse policies whose only selling point is that gun owners hate them. Policies that often seem as if they were drafted by people who have encountered guns only as a figure in a briefing book or an image on the news.

Instead, I found the most hope in more narrowly tailored interventions. Potential suicide victims, women menaced by their abusive partners and kids swept up in street vendettas are all in danger from guns, but they each require different protections.

Older men, who make up the largest share of gun suicides, need better access to people who could care for them and get them help. Women endangered by specific men need to be prioritized by police, who can enforce restraining orders prohibiting these men from buying and owning guns. Younger men at risk of violence need to be identified before they take a life or lose theirs and to be connected to mentors who can help them de-escalate conflicts.

Even the most data-driven practices, such as New Orleans’plan to identify gang members for intervention based on previous arrests and weapons seizures, wind up more personal than most policies floated. The young men at risk can be identified by an algorithm, but they have to be disarmed one by one, personally — not en masse as though they were all interchangeable. A reduction in gun deaths is most likely to come from finding smaller chances for victories and expanding those solutions as much as possible. We save lives by focusing on a range of tactics to protect the different kinds of potential victims and reforming potential killers, not from sweeping bans focused on the guns themselves.

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #2 
Thanks to UDub
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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #3 
This is the thing.  The liberals on this forum have offered no specific and relevant proposals for dealing with gun deaths.  They rant and shout or propose measures that are extremely vague and clearly show their lack of education on the topic.

Nobody wants anyone to die as the result of gun violence.  But let's talk about measures that really work.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #4 
pabar the author described it thusly

Quote:
 But I can’t endorse policies whose only selling point is that gun owners hate them. 


Those like freshyturd and kazoo are only trolling here.  They have no real plans, freshyturd's plans are unworkable and I said as much from his first post on the subject.  I also said 6 days before the latest shootings that the gun grabbers were strangely silent on the gun threads.  if they cared so much they should bang the drum weekly if not daily about their gun grabbing desires.  They are trolling

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #5 
Image result for gun ownership by year
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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #6 
I'm thinking Kazoo and Freshy are the Russians..........
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
I'm thinking Kazoo and Freshy are the Russians..........


They're certainly not fans of this country.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #8 
Both of you probably make better decisions when you don't think. Cognitive skills are lacking. Just saying sh1t doesn't make it true. You have the peanut gallery here echoing much twisted, conspiratorial bullsh1t. Try looking for truth. It'll set you free. Literally less than 10% of the crap you guys spout here is the truth. 
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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #9 
Got you beat by almost 10% then.
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#SCOTUS x two


bluedog

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Reply with quote  #10 
Fresh, are you the Russians?
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #11 
You couldn't tell the difference as long as I said something you agree with. 
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #12 
He's asking because you are dividing us.  Duaine said the russians are dividing us and since you arrived the division here has quadrupled.  You are a divider freshy. don't be that guy
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Looks like we already have laws to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable. The Gun Control Act of 1968 - was enacted for the purpose of “keeping firearms out of the hands of those not legally entitled to possess them because of age, criminal background, or incompetence.” The Act regulates imported guns, expands the gun-dealer licensing and record keeping requirements, and places specific limitations on the sale of handguns. The list of persons banned from buying guns is expanded to include persons convicted of any non-business related felony, persons found to be mentally incompetent, and users of illegal drugs.

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #14 
Funny that crazy people cannot be committed to a mental institution by their families. Why is that? Please Democrats, tell me why a psychopath is not allowed by law to be committed without their consent? Take a blind stab at it in the darkness that the shadow of your ideology casts.
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Ignorance is forgivable, and correctable with proper study. Stupidity is a way of life.


Fresh

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Reply with quote  #15 
That is something you blame on dems? Really? I think it's the law. Change it.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
That is something you blame on dems? Really? I think it's the law. Change it.


It'll be changed before the gun laws are changed


__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
That is something you blame on dems? Really? I think it's the law. Change it.

Dems pushed for this approach.  

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Just say no to dullards    
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Dems pushed for this approach.  


We pushed for crazy people not to be committed by their family. You are insane.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


We pushed for crazy people not to be committed by their family. You are insane.


Then they say "who me?"

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #20 
No Jane, that occurred during the Reagan presidency, and it was Dems that demanded we release crazies into the population. Please read up, you would seem a bit more informed instead of ignorant. This is becoming really trying attempting to debate your ignorant ass.
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Ignorance is forgivable, and correctable with proper study. Stupidity is a way of life.


woody

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Reply with quote  #21 
Jane, you said you were how old? 68? Really?
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Ignorance is forgivable, and correctable with proper study. Stupidity is a way of life.


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Jane, you said you were how old? 68? Really?


A SLOW 68

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #23 
Primarily because you make sh1t up. You guys have a unique way of interpreting history. Always a bit off kilter. Keep trying, oowwaa believes you.
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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #24 
I posted links already on this.  They were to wikipedia, so you probably did not read them.  

enjoy your snopes tonight.

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Just say no to dullards    
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #25 
ah what the he11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation

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Just say no to dullards    
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #26 
Your stubbornness is only overshadowed by your ignorance.
Hate to break it to you but it is true. The Dems pushed the laws that ended the aforementioned practices regarding people with mental issues and also has led to the explosion of homelessness since the crazies can’t be locked up.
Get a clue if you want to spew

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#SCOTUS x two


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
ah what the he11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disability_rights_movement

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #28 
It'll take him all weekend to absorb all that

EX:

Consequences[edit]

With the closing of these state mental institutions it has become increasingly difficult for people who suffer from severe mental illness to receive treatment in a facility. Many mentally ill individuals were left homeless after deinstitutionalization, making up one-third of the homeless population (D.E. Torrey). Today the most prominent treatment for the severely mentally ill is incarceration in a correctional facility, where mentally ill individuals are not receiving adequate care for their disorder.[28]


__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #29 
Come on Jane, it's Friday night, let your hair down and tell us what you really think darlin.
__________________
Ignorance is forgivable, and correctable with proper study. Stupidity is a way of life.


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #30 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=209&v=0ewFnoXM_6c
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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