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oldscout

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Reply with quote  #1 
Not being a pro on the computer ,I do not know how to post a link to an article onto UCS misc.
Would it be possible for one of you to go to ;accuracy in media.com& there are 2 articles  under the guest writer's section on the 2010 census that should be a MUST read for all our posters.It is very scary.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Monument

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Reply with quote  #2 
Here you go:
part 1
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3656/pub_detail.asp

part 2
http://www.aim.org/guest-column/the-big-fix-obamas-rigged-census-part-two/

oldscout

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you Monument.
Is it just me that this census thing bothers,it is suppose to be for population info,not personal info?Doesn't this appear to be another scheme to payoff those who voted for you&keep them in your corner?



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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #4 
old scout - What is scary is the very far right anti Obama slant of the articles and the organization that printed them under the guise of "information". It's pure propaganda. I don't find it strange that on the same page they advertise a choice of a number of "conservative" books. John Birch anyone??
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #5 
I recall all the uproar about the questions on the "long form" census report 10 years ago.  The article keeps referring to the "Obama census".  I'm sure the 2010 census was in the works long before Obama took office. 

According to the US Census Bureau site, the 2010 census will be a "short form" only:

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/about_2010_census/007622.html


The information previously requested in the "long form" is now in an on-going ACS survey that is mailed out to a sample of the population:

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/SQuest09.pdf

And it DOES ask if you're a citizen.

Here's the long form 2000 census questionnaire, so you can see that it's very similar to the ACS survey:

http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d02p.pdf

This one also asked if you were a citizen.


The referenced articles are so full of misinformation, it's pitiful.

 
Puleeze....

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #6 
The far right is grasping for any material which they might twist into an anti Obama statement of propaganda. I do not mind the criticism that thinking people have written about the Obama administration to date, but this type of publication serves only one purpose, its own. The spin and misinformation are not meant for anyone with some degree of objectivity.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
POV

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
The spin and misinformation are not meant for anyone with some degree of objectivity.

 
...and that, Frank is what is scary!
rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #8 
I believe that we will not participate in this census...

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I voted for Trump. 
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #9 

Quote:
Originally Posted by POV
Quote:
The spin and misinformation are not meant for anyone with some degree of objectivity.

 
...and that, Frank is what is scary!
I think I am very objective&see a lot about this that I Question.

Personally,i take JG post as an insult to my intelligence.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #10 
old scout - Don't. It's not meant that way. If you insist on taking it that way, I apologize for that. I regard you as a very intelligent person.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - What is scary is the very far right anti Obama slant of the articles and the organization that printed them under the guise of "information". It's pure propaganda. I don't find it strange that on the same page they advertise a choice of a number of "conservative" books. John Birch anyone??
If you are lucky maybe you will be one that gets the ACS survey or the long form of the census.I'm sure you will be more than happy to provide them with all the info they want.While you are at it,give them your cc info& they can take out a monthly contribution to Acorn or Jesse's Rainbow coalition.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #12 
old scout - Is that an objective post? Even very intelligent people can lose objectivity when emotions run rampant. Because of my bias, what immediately popped into my head was the excessive wiretapping and government access into my personal life that liberals and the ACLU railed about during the recent administration (personally I felt no endangerment, just that perhaps they had overstepped Constitutional boundaries). I am aware that two wrongs don't make a right, just two wrongs, but much of what this administration lives with was hatched by the previous administration. If someone says, "This exists, and it's wrong" then I might agree with that, but if they say, "This exists and it's wrong, and it's Obama's fault", then we part thinking ways because that statement is no longer an analysis of wrong, but rather an attack, perhaps unwarranted, against the Obama administration and becomes a political ploy.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #13 
Don't get me wrong,I sure do not want to be critical of President Obama.
I know he inherited this mess&it's all the fault of President Bush& his right wing loons.
It's going to take the current adm.a long time to straighten out this mess&I hope that the average American doesn't get to upset,too soon.It will take at least 2 terms to fix all that is wrong.
Personally,I care about what the Russians,French,even Chavez/Castro,etc. think of me & my country.I lay awake nights thinking about this& what I can do to make things better.Do I need to contribute more of my money to the poor& downtrodden?Maybe I need to work 200 days at the food shelter vs 100.My 11 grand kids are all getting by,they have jobs or their parents do,so I should maybe give to others in greater need.These are the things racing through my mind.
I know it's important that we dump this current health system we have&get one run by the Gov.,they do such a wonderful job of running everything else.
We are thinking about trading in both our SUV&my pickup for a mini-cooper or something like that.I guess when I go visit my son & 3 small Grand kids,we will have to drive 2 cars to the restaurant instead of all piling in the SUV.
Do you think I should put a windmill in my yard?I have room& why give my money to that polluting utility Company.
I know some will say this post is not objective or shows little intelligence on part of the writer,so I will admit straight out that I didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale,but only a small private college[sorry it was affliated with a church]in the Midwest.
I vow to do my part to support our president,save our planet,make our nation more friendly&pay my taxes with a smile.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #14 
old scout - You've made your point, or should I say points?
PS - I think there is something in the middle of far left and far right perspectives that recognizes specific problems and attempts to correct them.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
WanabeHorsey

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Reply with quote  #15 
Ah, oldscout, now you finally get it.  I knew deep down inside of you there was hidden intellect.  You are finally using it.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #16 
This one is cute;
A man dies& went to heaven.As he stood in front of St.Peter at the gates,he saw a wall of clocks behind him.
He asked St.Peter"what's with all the clocks?"
St.Peter informed him,"those are lie-clocks.Everyone on earth has/had a lie-clock."
"Everytime you lie the hands on the clock move".
"Oh",said the man,"whose clock is that one?"
"That is Mother Teresa's.The hands have never moved,because she never lied".
"Incredible",said the man."And whose clock is that?"
St.Peter said,"That's Abe Lincoln's clock.The hands have only moved twice,telling us that Abe only told 2 lies his entire life."
"Where is President Obama's clock "asked the man.
"His clock is in Jesus' office.Jesus uses it for a ceiling fan."

Sorry,I know I said I wasn't going to talk bad about the President,but it is important to get the facts out there as reported.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #17 
old scout - Cute but very old story. I've heard every President's name since Harry Truman attached to the ceiling fan line. And rightfully so !!!

PS - Here are a couple of statements for you to write about. I think that to date -

1. President Obama's foreign relations trip has been outstanding. He is an outstanding speechifier, is likeable, and represents my nation well abroad. In that regard, Michelle Obama is an excellent first lady.

2. President Obama's macro economics look fair to bad; at least the balance of trade deficit is down (more because of international recession than anything the administration has done though).

3. President Obama's fiscal plan for micro economics at this point looks like a failure. For a change, Joe Biden made sense when he said they misread the problem. They tried to bring down an elephant with a 22 rifle. Only time will tell if either an economic cycle or a stimulus plan (or both) will redirect the economy of the US and stimulate hiring as well as consumerism and thus investment and productivity. I guarantee that it won't happen in a year. The White House has announced that there will not be an additional stimulus bill. During that year there will be plenty to complain about in terms of the administration's handling of the micro economy. As some poster said well, "People pay attention when they get hit in the wallet".

PPS - These three areas were my personal test of the administration going in. Would things be better in each as the result of the administration's policies? I'm still hopeful, but dubious in the area of micro economics. It might take generations to right that ship. Applying this test to the previous administration, I would suggest that that administration failed my nation in all three areas.

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #18 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - Cute but very old story. I've heard every President's name since Harry Truman attached to the ceiling fan line. And rightfully so !!!
PS - Here are a couple of statements for you to write about. I think that to date -
1. President Obama's foreign relations trip has been outstanding. He is an outstanding speechifier, is likeable, and represents my nation well abroad.
2. President Obama's macro economics look fair to bad; at least the balance of trade deficit is down (more because of international recession than anything the administration has done though).
3. President Obama's fiscal plan for micro economics at this point is a failure. For a change, Joe Biden made sense when he said they misread the problem. They tried to bring down an elephant with a 22 rifle. Only time will tell if either an economic cycle or a stimulus plan (or both) will redirect the economy of the US and stimulate hiring as well as consumerism and thus investment and productivity. I guarantee that it won't happen in a year. During that time there will be plenty to complain about in terms of the administration's handling of the micro economy. As some poster said well, "People pay attention when they get hit in the wallet".
PPS - These three areas were my test of the administration going in. Would things be better in each as the result of the administration's policies? I'm still hopeful, but dubious in the area of micro economics. It might take generations to right that ship.

JG - some comments.

1) The Foreign Relations tours have not been outstanding. He is still apologizing for America's role in the World the past 60 years. Talk about not having a fundamental love or respect for your country and its citizens by bashing it everytime he gets.

2) Where Obama is screwing up is that he is making bad decisions. Obama is being stupid to create huge deficits that will cause dollar inflation and future economic problems. Obama is being moronic to create huge deficits for unproductive reasons----the trillion dollar deficits would be acceptable to the citizens if the spending was on electric high speed rail and a couple of dozen nuclear power plant to replace every coal-fired power plant so the US could get off coal and oil. Instead, Obama is wasting trillions on ACORN, dog runs, mob museums, and subsidies for environmentally harmful ethanol plants.

3) Obama seems to live in some kind of bizarre alternate reality. He thinks he can spend the US trillions into deficit and get away with simultaneously pretending that he really really opposes deficit spending.

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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #19 
PGP-I love your #2,I agree totally.If you are going to spend those kind of $,do it on something that will create jobs now&benefit our future generations.
I think high speed rail& nuclear would be awesome,but I bet you see neither under the current adm.Oh,except for the one to Vegas that Sen. Harry got through.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
masare

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Reply with quote  #20 

Quote:
PGP says,

Obama is being stupid to create huge deficits that will cause dollar inflation and future economic problems.


As if the deficits weren't already there?  Jeeze you guys really enjoy rewrites!

Oldscout, what really scares me about most of the comments you have made is that you need to quote sources to present an arguement.  Reading what you think at times gives me something to think about.  However, the minute you use some of these sites to make a statement I tune out.  The conservative right wing is in major fight mode--emotions are running high on those sites so can you really trust what they say?  I am a conservative democrat so it takes me some time to process what I read or hear about this current administration.  I am trying to give them the chance to improve things for us.  It has only been 6 months since we had a "peaceful" change of power--that statement alone may be considered a miracle in some countries. 

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #21 
I loved George Will's (conservative columnist) column this morning on taxes. Aside from what he calls the "Bush-Obama" economy, he just flat out makes sense without the Party finger pointing. Yes, we are in for higher taxes of many kinds and reduction of services from every level of government, and yes, because of unemployment, the upper middle class and the upper class will be taxed more heavily by a graduated income tax, but they reaped the benefits of our previous "credit card" economy and "tax cutting", especially for the very wealthy. Many "hidden" per capita taxes will fall equally on the rich and the poor regardless of income. There will be, of necessity, an increase of taxes, however, to pay for past mismanagement (simply stated, that's when you spend much more than your income). A healthy economy creates more taxes, but first we must create a healthy economy that benefits all our citizens, and that requires some belt tightening and paying off our credit cards first.

In another section of my newspaper, these were listed. I'll not comment here about macro economics. You draw your own conclusions: here are the top foreign holders of US Treasury Securities -

$763.5 billion - Mainland China (not including $80.9 by Hong Kong)

$685.9 billion - Japan

$204.7 billion - Caribbean - institutions in the Bahamas. Bermuda, Cayman Islands, etc.

$189.5 billion - OPEC - Big Oil, Big money - includes Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc.

$152.8 billion - United Kingdom - Britain

How did this happen ????? Those are BILLIONS, folks. Who do you think holds the power hand in international economic summits today?

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare

Quote:
PGP says,

Obama is being stupid to create huge deficits that will cause dollar inflation and future economic problems.


As if the deficits weren't already there?  Jeeze you guys really enjoy rewrites!

Oldscout, what really scares me about most of the comments you have made is that you need to quote sources to present an argument.  Reading what you think at times gives me something to think about.  However, the minute you use some of these sites to make a statement I tune out.  The conservative right wing is in major fight mode--emotions are running high on those sites so can you really trust what they say?  I am a conservative democrat so it takes me some time to process what I read or hear about this current administration.  I am trying to give them the chance to improve things for us.  It has only been 6 months since we had a "peaceful" change of power--that statement alone may be considered a miracle in some countries. 

I looked back through this thread& the "Dam is starting to leak " thread,other than the posting of the articles to start this thread,I don't see any one I quoted to support my many comments.I do refer to what others said,"we misread the economy" to start some posts,but don't see your point.Unlike some people.i do try & give credit to articles ,etc.I have read¬ pretend it is my idea.

I don't just watch FNC if that's what you think& in fact can't take much of O'Riely or Rush,they have egos almost as large as President OBAMA.I read WSJ,USA Today,St.Louis or KC paper,Des Moines Register& watch Greta& Neil Cuvuto,Huckabee on fox& Lou Dobbs.
I did Quote St.Peter in my joke about the ceiling fan,I bet that's what has you upset.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #23 
old scout - Of all the posters here on line, you are the one I most want to have a beer with and just "chew the fat" about all sorts of stuff. I might disagree with your perspective, but Diogenes held up his lamp and sought an "honest man" and I think you are one.
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #24 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - Of all the posters here on line, you are the one I most want to have a beer with and just "chew the fat" about all sorts of stuff. I might disagree with your perspective, but Diogenes held up his lamp and sought an "honest man" and I think you are one.
Back at you JG.If things work out we hope to be in Florida Jan-Feb in Sarasota area& on to Orlando for March.I'll send you info by PM later in year. We will make it happen.I'll buy

Bet you would have guessed,but I use to catch when I played FP.Wanted to pitch ,but couldn't get the ball over the plate.Finally got to pitch for number of years in slow pitch,wasn't as hard,but you did have to have pretty quick reflexes for some of those big boys.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #25 
old scout - There are several early season tournaments at the U. South Florida field in February. When I receive a schedule I'll let you know. Only the Underarmour Tournaments in Clearwater in March are on UMass Fan's tournament list thus far.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #26 
I'm disappointed that no one has addressed the US Treasury Securities and who owns them (Post #21). What does this mean to our nation's negotiating power abroad, and once again, how and why did we get into such a financial mess???
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #27 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
I'm disappointed that no one has addressed the US Treasury Securities and who owns them (Post #21). What does this mean to our nation's negotiating power abroad, and once again, how and why did we get into such a financial mess???

Ask Chris Dodd from CT and Barney Frank from MA. They got us into the Housing Crisis.







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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #28 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
I'm disappointed that no one has addressed the US Treasury Securities and who owns them (Post #21). What does this mean to our nation's negotiating power abroad, and once again, how and why did we get into such a financial mess???
I don't know about the UK,but all  these other countries have money[savings],while we have been spending ourselves into  the year 2050.

It is China's goal to be the number 1 world power.They are buying our debt,buying our property&buying all the gold they can get their hands on.

We are selling debt left& right&who is going to buy it?Those with the bucks$$$& that is not  US investors.
A guy told me recently that the numbers you listed are probably low.I don't think they include purchases on the London Exchange or something like that,I didn't really understand.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #29 
The mismanagement of Fannie and Freddie doesn't explain all that international debt. It certainly helps to explain the crash of the micro economy when ridiculous mortgages were called, and something should have been done to address the problem after 2001 when it was recognized. Both Congress and the White House saw the problem, but it was glossed over because entrepreneurs were making money, just as they were on 80% margin before the 1928 crash. Our then Vice President responded by saying "Debt is good". It is to entrepreneurs when government spending is boosting corporate profits in an unholy alliance sometimes tied to the military (government contracts), but sooner or later "we the people"have to pay the bills incurred by "credit card spending". True fiscal conservatives from both parties have been preaching smaller government and less government spending for many years, and they have been ignored by both parties. Maybe now folks will give their ideas a second look.

International debt was incurred as a result of government spending beyond taxes garnered. In other words, by government spending that went way beyond government income, thus demanding borrowing. We had to borrow to keep up with spending. What were we purchasing beyond dedicated monies budgeted for services and "normal" government purchases contained in the budget and needed to run the business of government? For example, how much did the Iraq war cost us in dollars (and is costing us) during a time of tax cuts especially aimed at the wealthiest members of our society? It's like reducing income and purchasing more and more by using a credit card and paying the minimum each month. The upper echelon of our society made lots of money by leaving government debt for future generations. I love the line from "The Great Gatsby" when the narrator says, "They were careless people Tom and Daisy. They ruined other people's lives, and then they retreated back into their vast wealth or whatever it is that keeps then going". Our ability to pay is stymied by a sagging economy. Thus far, the Obama administration has not addressed the problem of debt (much too busy with the micro economy), and in fact has added to gross debt with government spending to theoretically boost a sagging economy at home. I think we'll have to wait out another economic cycle to find out if it's working at all, or even slowing the negative trend.

We are in one helluva financial mess, and there is plenty of blame to go around. Now, how to find a way out of a downward cycle in both micro and macro economics is our government's huge problem. I do know that they will need more income, and that means higher taxes for you and me, and hopefully the closing of some tax loopholes for those who speak of taxes as "tax efficiencies" and who utter phrases like "Only the little people pay taxes".
PS - Those figures that I took out of the paper are three months old, so they could be more by now.

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #30 
PGP - Your generation and beyond will be saddled with taxes that will be used to pay interest and hopefully principal on old federal debts. I don't blame you for being angry, and just think, the baby boomers will be on social security soon. Just crunch the numbers and it cannot sustain itself.
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
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