Ultimate College Softball
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DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #61 
Thanks USC---

This is a new focus of mine, having watched players perform perfectly when they know the ball is coming to them in a drill in practice, then spaz out when a ball comes to them in a game.

Yesterday I ordered The Mental Game of Baseball by this same guy.
Today I ordered the book you linked to.

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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Gee, BD, I tried to follow that link and it said it was no longer valid, maybe I should contact the administrator.

That's odd isn't it ?


Tom, poof it disappeared.....It was just  a matter of time.....

The administrator posted this.....
Quote:
I am encouraging everyone to please lets just move on.

And this...
Quote:
To all:
I took the thread down today............ I do not plan on discussing this

Tom, makes you wonder, move on from what?...


 

bluedog

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Reply with quote  #63 

Quote:
BTW: The ULL Coach invited Englishbey out to help his team a few years back with very good results...

Rocklifter, you were there?


Quote:
My daughter and I had an unofficial at ULL and so I know exactly what Coach L is all about when it comes to hitting and their expectations and approach to hitting....

I bet you don't.....

Quote:
The split grip Coach Lotief has started using has a little more than intrigued me. ..................I would like to know the thought behind its use.....
Anyone have any ideas on this?

See above.......

Quote:
I have looked at Yeagers Material and I choose not to use it for one of many reasons.....Biomechanically it doesnt make sense.....

Since you have dismissed Yeager's material as being unsound, you should know Yeager uses the split grip in his teaching.....And, you should know why he does.....

Tom was nice enough to have given you the answer............
Quote:
The split grip enhances the torquing of the handle.




rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
BTW: The ULL Coach invited Englishbey out to help his team a few years back with very good results...

Rocklifter, you were there?
No I wasnt. However, my daughters hitting instructor stayed with Coach Lotief at their home and discussed hitting the whole time he was in town. Our hitting instructor also is friends and has spent quite a bit of time with Englishbey and has learned much about the mechanics of hitting from him.
BTW: This was the time frame right before quite a good bunch of hitters came through ULL. Gomez, Bertucci, and Evans to name a few.


Quote:
My daughter and I had an unofficial at ULL and so I know exactly what Coach L is all about when it comes to hitting and their expectations and approach to hitting....

I bet you don't.....
Sir I wont engage you in some personal contest of whos better or whos not. We spent quite a bit of time discussing his philosophy, watching my daughters skills videos, etc......So yes I feel fairly certain I know a pretty good bit of his thoughts on hitting.
He showed us the equipment that included 55 gallon drums of softballs. He told my daughter his expectations of video and how much each lady will work on swinging while at ULL. So again yes I feel very certain I have a good grasp on his ideas....


Quote:
The split grip Coach Lotief has started using has a little more than intrigued me. ..................I would like to know the thought behind its use.....
Anyone have any ideas on this?

See above.......
Coach Lotief never discussed the split grip with us during our visit and quite frankly it didnt interest me at the time. To be honest it doesnt really seem that interesting now except for the fact that I am an academically intrigued person with a need to learn as much as I can.....
Even if its far fetched to me...

Quote:
I have looked at Yeagers Material and I choose not to use it for one of many reasons.....Biomechanically it doesnt make sense.....

Then, you should know Yeager uses the split grip in his teaching.....
Doesnt mean anything to me.....I did notice Coach Lotief used it with some of his ladies, but I didnt see all of them use it.....

 

Dog Im not here to pick a fight with you and if thats what your trying to do then we will stop here....Im trying to prove and state my points...
I hear your somewhat associated with ULL.....When did this happen?




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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
I hear your somewhat associated with ULL.....When did this happen?
 

Rocklifter, you heard wrong......I'm in no way associated with ULL in any capacity whatsoever..........I have no right to speak for anyone associated with ULL and I don't believe I have.....

Quote:
Rocklifter, you were there?
No I wasnt.  

Then, in all due respect, you shouldn't give someone else credit for Michael and Stephanie Lotief's success...........

Quote:
To be honest it doesnt really seem that interesting now except for the fact that I am an academically intrigued person with a need to learn as much as I can.....  

Well, you made mention you were intrigued by the split grip hitting technique.....I will suggest you might not want to dismiss Dr. Yeager's material as unsound when it's obvious you don't have a grasp of what his material is all about.....That's all I'm saying......If you know his material and wish to declare it as unsound, O.K. fine......

Quote:
Dog Im not here to pick a fight with you and if thats what your trying to do then we will stop here....Im trying to prove and state my points...

Sorry, if I came off that way....You should know that's not my intent....You were wrong on some things and I just wanted you to know you were.....


rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
I hear your somewhat associated with ULL.....When did this happen?
 


Rocklifter, you heard wrong......I'm in no way associated with ULL in any capacity whatsoever..........I have no right to speak for anyone associated with ULL and I don't believe I have.....

Quote:
Rocklifter, you were there?
No I wasnt.  

Then, in all due respect, you shouldn't give someone else credit for Michael and Stephanie Lotief's success...........
I give all of them credit. Coach Lotief and Steve Englishbey were friends and fellow lovers of hitting. They got together and decided to try and make things better for their teams hitting. I am in no way diminishing Coach L's accomplishments. I merely stated Steve came in to help with somethings and ideas....Hardly talk of a coach relying on one person to do everything......
Plus lets not take one of my sentences out of context either my friend.....I wasnt there but a few of my friends I value with telling the truth were.  They are always on the phone or emailing each other about hitting. Hardly people I would  say are less than accurate on whats happening..


Quote:
To be honest it doesnt really seem that interesting now except for the fact that I am an academically intrigued person with a need to learn as much as I can.....  

Well, you made mention you were intrigued by the split grip hitting technique.....I will suggest you might not want to dismiss Dr. Yeager's material as unsound when it's obvious you don't have a grasp of what his material is all about.....That's all I'm saying......If you know his material and wish to declare it as unsound, O.K. fine......
I dimissed the material I have read because it didnt have the biomechanical relevance for my own taste and sense of whats correct as far as how the body should move. Plus being intrigued by a split grip technique by no means says you accept it or will state it was being good....


Quote:
Dog Im not here to pick a fight with you and if thats what your trying to do then we will stop here....Im trying to prove and state my points...

Sorry, if I came off that way....You should know that's not my intent....You were wrong on some things and I just wanted you to know you were.....
#1: How am I wrong? Because I stated that someone came in and helped present some new ideas for the ULL program as far as hitting?
#2: You came to me as if since I wasnt there I couldnt discuss or speak of what actually happened. Coach L himself told us that Steve had been over there a few times working on things. Did this mean Steph and Him gave Englishbey all the credit? Dont think so.....They shouldnt give him all the credit because Coach L is in the trenches with them ladies everyday working on their hitting......As far as he and Steve go....
The last time we spoke he asked me when the last time I saw Steve and if  my daughter was still seeing our instructor he knew in Atlanta....

Back to Dr Yeager...He does carry some merit with his credentials. But like my PhD it means nothing if the person doesnt or cant carry his learning to the field or to their students. Unfortunately for Dr. Yeager his references to movements during the swing arent correct in a scientific or biomechanical sense. One hopes that his students will actually feel they are learning something instead of losing their money...
 

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tomg

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Reply with quote  #67 
rock-

I think Yeager's info is excellent. What part of it do you have trouble with ?

The way I look at it, based on the best golf info which is from Jim Hardy, while all high level golf and hitting swings are based on the same mechanical model, there are 2 very different techniques or patterns for how the body sequences positions to implement the basic mechanical model.

In one pattern, the shoulders turn actively/shoulders/hips/torso are one thing doing one thing as the PCR blueprint describes it.

In the other pattern which is similar to a high level overhand throw, the upper and lower body move somewhat separately but in synch controlled by the upper body. The upper limbs swing the bat in one plane while the body turns in another to create a quick adjustable stretch and fire of the torso. A different/more upright posture, a different way of connecting and a different type of stretch and fire rotation from the PCR blueprint. This is described traditionally as swinging down or hips and hands for example, very different from bending over and swinging around with shoulder dominance. Both work in golf, but the more you mix patterns, the more room for error. Only the second 2 plane type pattern works in MLB.

Yeager has measured the ground forces (centers of pressure of feet) in the second/MLB type pattern in which there is a certain sequence of negative/positive move/weight shift and he has described accompanying upper body actions that result in barrell loading and how the elbows and hands work,etc.

You can't get the type of ground force readings he describes unless you are using the MLB type pattern.

What keeps things confusing is when these two patterns are not accounted for. Best described in golf, Hardy, PLANE TRUTH FOR GOLFERS.
Mark

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Reply with quote  #68 

I trust the experienced members of this board recognize sophistry when they see it, and goodness knows this thread has it's share, but, point of order, be aware TomG is an armchair theorist and be aware Hardy, when describing the one and two plane swing, says the one plane swing is the dominant pattern in baseball though you would think the opposite from Tom's usual MLB pattern drivel. Carry on.

tomg

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Reply with quote  #69 
Mark-

Welcome to the discussion.

Was there a question or informational point regarding hitting or Hardy you want to address specifically ?

I think a critical reading of Hardy's info would suggest that there are 2 "natural" high level patterns of swinging which depend on how the scaps work. That would be the most important aspect of "scap function" with regard to teaching a swing.

Now, I would certainly agree you see way more swings in general that are swinging around/flying open as opposed to hips and hands swinging down, keeping shoulders closed.hitting against a firm front side,etc, BUT you do not see this swing around type of swing thrive in MLB. You here the other descriptions instead

So I think it is important to teaching to realize that the body will be attracted to one pattern or the other and the one you see in MLB is not the most common one at other levels of play.

The MLB pattern also has the advantage of being most similar to the high level overhand throw as described by Dixon, for example.

Maybe you would like to discuss his work as well ? Critically.

IF you think you want to emulate MLB then you should understand how this pattern works.
Mark

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Reply with quote  #70 
Again, congratulations on ASU's season and the result when they finally pitched to your DD!

I guess TomG popped up here to get his preening posting fix since he just got tossed from Baseball Fever. Same old same old.
jofus

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Reply with quote  #71 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomg
Gee, BD, I tried to follow that link and it said it was no longer valid, maybe I should contact the administrator.

That's odd isn't it ?


It was removed because it had went downhill and was basically just personal attacks against various individuals....just like almost every thread about swinging a bat ends up, on any board :|
tomg

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Reply with quote  #72 
I agree the point should be to try to present and critique actual information in this type forum. In person is a very different venue.

Videoanalysis is also very good for this type forum and to some degree motionanalysis is becoming possible.

Maybe we can stick to info if people are interetsed.
Mark

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jofus

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomg
Gee, BD, I tried to follow that link and it said it was no longer valid, maybe I should contact the administrator.

That's odd isn't it ?


It was removed because it had went downhill and was basically just personal attacks against various individuals....just like almost every thread about swinging a bat ends up, on any board :|


Indeed. Follow the bread crumbs back years you would have to to find the well spring of the animosity in most of them.
gonein2point85

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Reply with quote  #74 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
Again, congratulations on ASU's season and the result when they finally pitched to your DD!

I guess TomG popped up here to get his preening posting fix since he just got tossed from Baseball Fever. Same old same old.

I didn't realize TomG was on this site. Is JoeBad here too?

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Mark

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Reply with quote  #75 

You would think.

rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudDad

I don't know about Mark and a question but I now know what sophistry means!



HA HA HA HA.....Im glad you knew what it meant. I had to google the darn word......Mark uses more big words than Websters......
Kidding my friend......

I have now written that word down and the definition for use later.....
 

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DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #77 

Well, watch out for TomG, I guarantee you he knows what that word means, its origin, synonyms, and derivatives.


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gonein2point85

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Reply with quote  #78 

Yeah I agree. Watch out.


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indyrun

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Reply with quote  #79 
Just a "major fan" of College Softball (with a definate "bent" toward the Arizona Wildcats), and know little about the actual DETAIL on hitting technique of softball, carried throughout this thread.  HOWEVER, I have enjoyed it throughly! 

The obvious expertise of so many of you shows, and I have been viewing, as a "complete novice" that is interested - from fan's perspective - in learning what I can.  Whether that goal has been met, is questionable, but sure has been interesting - THANKS!
tomg

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Reply with quote  #80 
Indy -

If you like AZ, here is a video by Candrea primarily based on the info of Don Slaught/Rightview that emphasizes the similarity between high level throwing and hitting.

http://www.sportskool.com/videos/hitting
indyrun

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Reply with quote  #81 
What a great site!  Multiple vides on all game aspects.  Hitting one is only one I've viewed (and "hope" it helps me in our senior baseball game tomorrow Mike put these out, it appears, either before or right after the '04 Olympics - free to all, and have to assume there were some coaches that have taken advantage.

Thanks SO much - liked the aircraft carrier entro too.

And, am a UA FANATIC fan - softball, volleyball, basketball (taking a year off in protest), football (not looking good for this season?), and swimming (should have several in Olympics).  Again, thanks.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #82 
Quote:
How am I wrong? Because I stated that someone came in and helped present some new ideas for the ULL program as far as hitting?

Rocklifter, presenting ideas and having them be accepted and put to use is two entirely different things.....

You represented that those ideas were implemented in the hitters and you are way wrong indeed on that.........
rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #83 
Bluedog I really feel sorry for you. Not only can I say with absolutely no doubt in my mind about the implementation of those techniques....I can offer one other person on here that can validate the same thing.

Im going to try and use my friends word of the day here.......

What you are doing is sophistry.........

You have no basis for your argument...I have people and biomechanical reference to back up my statements.

I will not however get these people involved here unless they want to......


Additionally your proving to be quite nescient.

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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
You have no basis for your argument...I have people and biomechanical reference to back up my statements. 

You have nothing but air........
rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #85 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Quote:
You have no basis for your argument...I have people and biomechanical reference to back up my statements. 

You have nothing but air........

Wow, I rest my case....

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tomg

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Reply with quote  #86 
anyone with some hitting info related posts ?
indyrun

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Reply with quote  #87 

Fellas! you are losing touch (and so am I).

rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #88 

Well actually I would love to know if anyone has any video clips of Ted Williams.......I know there has been quite a bit of printed material but I would love to see his swing in motion.......

PD....anything at all?


Forget it....I found a clip on YouTube......
Tried before and couldnt find anything...


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gonein2point85

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Reply with quote  #89 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Quote:
You have no basis for your argument...I have people and biomechanical reference to back up my statements. 

You have nothing but air........


You wouldn't be "Joby" would you?

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ssarge

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Reply with quote  #90 
gonein2.whatever (she beat out a one-hopper to the pitcher in Gold Regionals yesterday):

Bluedog is Joby. 
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