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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #2971 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Exactly.  How did all that illegal immigration turn out for those native Indians?  Get what we are trying to avoid?


GLP says he should answer the question but he mad

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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #2972 
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Phil would have given just about anything to have been carrying during this slaughter.




[I-g1XOMp_normal]
Phil Davis@PhilDavis_CG
 
 

There is nothing more terrifying than hearing multiple people get shot while you're under your desk and then hear the gunman reload


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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #2973 
Great point, guns don't kill people.  People kill people that don't have guns
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woody

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Reply with quote  #2974 
I had heard that during the shooting that one of the newspaper employees retrieved 2 pistols from his desk and was armed.
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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2975 
badass cop taking care of business.  All happens in 4:20.  Calls the pursuit very accurately given the speed/action and incoming fire rates. 

Effectively hitting the suspect vehicle while driving your car.    Mis-racks his mag buy figures it out and corrects in great time, there was a whole left hand to right hand thing that messed him up a bit.



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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #2976 
I think I forgot to breathe at the end. I expected him to fire left handed out the side window. Not through his own windshield
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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #2977 
http://freebeacon.com/politics/dem-campaign-manager-leaves-race-wake-free-beacon-expose/




The campaign manager for Democrat Tedra Cobb, who is running to unseat Rep. Elise Stefanik (R., N.Y.), left the campaign on Tuesday in the wake of a video where Cobb says she won't publicly state what she actually believes about banning certain guns.

Mike Szustak, who has been running Cobb's campaign since April, told the Watertown Daily Times that he was no longer working on the campaign. It is not clear if he quit or if he was fired.

The move comes in the aftermath of a Washington Free Beacon report on a video showing Cobb telling a group of teen supporters that she could not publicly state her desire for a ban on certain rifles for fear that her view is unpopular and could cost her the election.


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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #2978 
In an amazing turn the 9th circus court has stayed the implementation of banning magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.un CA.
Hopefully it gets appealed to SCOTUS after Kavanaugh is confirmed
#SUCKITGAVIN

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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #2979 
Gun control issue is DOA. Court just ruled in favor of the 3-D Printer gun-making proponents. Make your own in the comfort of your own home.


https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/14/its-now-legal-to-distribute-schematics-for-3d-printed-guns-in-the-u-s-what-happens-next/


[image]

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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #2980 
https://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Appeals-court-says-2nd-Amendment-allows-open-13101024.php



LOS ANGELES (AP) — A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that the Second Amendment protects the right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 2-1 that Hawaii officials had violated George Young's rights when he was denied a permit to openly carry a loaded gun in public to protect himself.

The decision reversed a lower court ruling that sided with officials who said the amendment only applied to guns kept in homes.

"We do not take lightly the problem of gun violence, which the State of Hawaii 'has understandably sought to fight,'" Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain wrote. "But, for better or for worse, the Second Amendment does protect a right to carry a firearm in public for self-defense."


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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2981 
open carry everywhere.

Was at a rally.  A few guys showed up and were open carry.  Cops were there. I have to admit it was a bit more tense than I would like.  After 15 minutes and the open carry guys remained super calm, the cops tended to ignore them.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #2982 
Any antiFa?
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kazoo

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Reply with quote  #2983 

The pro-gun crowd is insane. The perpetuate this notion that they are "responsible" gun owners--and law-abiding citizens. Really? They are paranoid, for starters, and lots of them are unstable. This country is TEEMING with unstable people, which is precisely why promoting gun ownership is grotesquely stupid and imperils public safety--as we see every day. Conservatives are simply off the ranch.

Did you hear about the gun-owner in Clearwater, FLA who shot and killed a guy for no good reason and so far is not going to be prosecuted under the state's absurd "stand your ground" law--which was passed by GOP legislatures at the urging of the NRA. Florida Republicans, like most Republicans, have been deep in the pocket of the extremist NRA for many years--the same NRA that has been cozy with Putin's Russia and no doubt illegally took millions from Russia to spend to promote Trump's candidacy.

In any case, a couple in Clearwater park in a handicapped space and the driver goes in the store. Some guy--gun owner--starts haranguing the guy for parking in the wrong spot, then yells at the girlfriend/wife while the driver is inside the store. The store owner said that the guy had confronted others in the same way multiple times before, so he was obviously trying to play parking-lot sheriff--and I'm sure he felt securing instigating confrontations with people because he had a gun under his shirt. The driver comes out of the store and, tired of listening to this idiot berate him for parking in the wrong spot, pushes the instigator. The instigator falls to the ground while the driver stands and looks at him. The instigator pulls out a gun and shoots the driver, killing him.

To not prosecute the shooter is the biggest BS and miscarriage of justice I've ever heard. Here you have some dope with a gun who thinks he can confront people because they park in a handicapped spot--which of course a ton of people do. Had he minded his own business, the driver (and father) would still be alive. The stand your ground argument is that you are entitled to kill someone if you consider yourself under threat--and the rednecks want to contend that the driver "assaulted" the instigator. Pushing somebody is not assault--and further, the driver did nothing after pushing the instigator. He was standing there when he got shot. To say that there was no reason to shoot the man would be an understatement. The shooter should be prosecuted--and the book thrown at him. Stand your ground is an absolutely stupid, outrageous law that must be repealed. Florida Republicans and the NRA are responsible for this man's death--but then Republicans and the NRA are responsible for the the deaths of thousands of innocent people, including hundreds of students, because they push and promote gun ownership in a country full of paranoid idiots and unstable clowns like this shooter. It is absolute insanity. 

Guys have been getting into fights for 100 years in this country--you brawl, it ends, both people walk away. Now, though, it's suddenly OK for somebody involved in a fight to shoot the the other guy. It's a freakin' scandal. And this /wasn't/ even a fight--one man pushes another man who was running his mouth. The shooter should be prosecuted--period--and this outrageous NRA law repealed. 








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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2984 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Any antiFa?

That particular rally was about 8 years ago.  It was way out in the suburbs.  i think it was just the very very beginning of the Occupy Wall Street stuff, I do not think it was even called OWS yet. 

It was a rally for open carry.  I am quite certain if that happened today everything would play out very differently.  

I had heard someone say that several open carry guys showed up at a rally that antifa had showed up.  I had heard that the cops went up to the guys asked them to step over here for a few questions, and led them pretty far away.  Rumors were the cops more or less told them that if they went back to the rally, they would be considered to be a threat to public safety and would have to be dealt with, so they left. 

I personally would not bring a weapon to an environment like that, unless I felt there was a direct threat to democracy that had an organized resistance.


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woody

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Reply with quote  #2985 

The pro-gun crowd is insane. The perpetuate this notion that they are "responsible" gun owners--and law-abiding citizens. Really? They are paranoid, for starters, and lots of them are unstable. This country is TEEMING with unstable people, which is precisely why promoting gun ownership is grotesquely stupid and imperils public safety--as we see every day. Conservatives are simply off the ranch.

Did you hear about the gun-owner in Clearwater, FLA who shot and killed a guy for no good reason and so far is not going to be prosecuted under the state's absurd "stand your ground" law--which was passed by GOP legislatures at the urging of the NRA. Florida Republicans, like most Republicans, have been deep in the pocket of the extremist NRA for many years--the same NRA that has been cozy with Putin's Russia and no doubt illegally took millions from Russia to spend to promote Trump's candidacy.

In any case, a couple in Clearwater park in a handicapped space and the driver goes in the store. Some guy--gun owner--starts haranguing the guy for parking in the wrong spot, then yells at the girlfriend/wife while the driver is inside the store. The store owner said that the guy had confronted others in the same way multiple times before, so he was obviously trying to play parking-lot sheriff--and I'm sure he felt securing instigating confrontations with people because he had a gun under his shirt. The driver comes out of the store and, tired of listening to this idiot berate him for parking in the wrong spot, pushes the instigator. The instigator falls to the ground while the driver stands and looks at him. The instigator pulls out a gun and shoots the driver, killing him.

To not prosecute the shooter is the biggest BS and miscarriage of justice I've ever heard. Here you have some dope with a gun who thinks he can confront people because they park in a handicapped spot--which of course a ton of people do. Had he minded his own business, the driver (and father) would still be alive. The stand your ground argument is that you are entitled to kill someone if you consider yourself under threat--and the rednecks want to contend that the driver "assaulted" the instigator. Pushing somebody is not assault--and further, the driver did nothing after pushing the instigator. He was standing there when he got shot. To say that there was no reason to shoot the man would be an understatement. The shooter should be prosecuted--and the book thrown at him. Stand your ground is an absolutely stupid, outrageous law that must be repealed. Florida Republicans and the NRA are responsible for this man's death--but then Republicans and the NRA are responsible for the the deaths of thousands of innocent people, including hundreds of students, because they push and promote gun ownership in a country full of paranoid idiots and unstable clowns like this shooter. It is absolute insanity. 

Guys have been getting into fights for 100 years in this country--you brawl, it ends, both people walk away. Now, though, it's suddenly OK for somebody involved in a fight to shoot the the other guy. It's a freakin' scandal. And this /wasn't/ even a fight--one man pushes another man who was running his mouth. The shooter should be prosecuted--period--and this outrageous NRA law repealed. 







[/QUOTE

You put your hands on another person in a violent manner and attack them, then you are liable to be killed. In a learning moment, maybe you shouldn’t physically attack a person you are having a disagreement with. People are messed up and have disputes daily. People pissed off about driving or a parking spot, someone dating a former girlfriend, workplace disagreements. Bottom line, never assault another person and somehow expect that since you are aggressive or bigger, that you can have your way. Samuel Colt ensured that every man was equal. This is a hard learned lesson for some people. I drive hundreds of miles and see all sorts of messed up stuff, but in my state, if you mess with anybody be it a bubba, or a grandma, just be assured that probably 30% or more are packing and aren’t going to put up with being physically assaulted. Nor should they.

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #2986 
Pushing someone is not assault
Well we now know you ain’t a lawyer.
FL is a stand your ground state. He was well within his rights. Maybe he should have laid there like a pussy until the other guy shot or stabbed or just beat the carp out of him. Unlike pussified CA that is a retreat state. That’s correct, you have a lawful duty to run away in this liberal hell hole. I’m sure that is Kazoo”s preference anyway

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mikec

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Reply with quote  #2987 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
open carry everywhere.

Was at a rally.  A few guys showed up and were open carry.  Cops were there. I have to admit it was a bit more tense than I would like.  After 15 minutes and the open carry guys remained super calm, the cops tended to ignore them.


there is no "concealed" carry in GA.  You get a permit, and you can carry however you want.  Some places may ask you to leave, or leave your weapon in your car if open carry, but I see people all the time at the grocery store, Walmart, some fast food types places.  Nobody gives it much thought.

Of course, that's out here in Hickville.  Down in the City, they freak out.

GA gun owners group basically asks you to conceal, just because public opinion is fragile, and there is a fear that tons of open carriers might create backlash.

I conceal because, if SHTF, I'd rather have surprise on my side.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #2988 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Pushing someone is not assault
Well we now know you ain’t a lawyer.
FL is a stand your ground state. He was well within his rights. Maybe he should have laid there like a pussy until the other guy shot or stabbed or just beat the carp out of him. Unlike pussified CA that is a retreat state. That’s correct, you have a lawful duty to run away in this liberal hell hole. I’m sure that is Kazoo”s preference anyway


went to Ohio recently, and read up on their laws.  they have reciprocity with FL, but the law is different.  They are a retreat state too.  FL used to be, but people were getting killed.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #2989 
First, you're not a Floridian.  You wouldn't know what the FL law is if it bit you in the rear.  And, you have no idea how it came about.  I happen to know, because I was involved peripherally in it back then.

Second, there are something like 300 million guns in this country.  If gun owners aren't responsible, you would know it.

I don't know the details of this case, but being pushed is not grounds to shoot someone under the FL law.  There has to be more going on than that to not be prosecuted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo

The pro-gun crowd is insane. The perpetuate this notion that they are "responsible" gun owners--and law-abiding citizens. Really? They are paranoid, for starters, and lots of them are unstable. This country is TEEMING with unstable people, which is precisely why promoting gun ownership is grotesquely stupid and imperils public safety--as we see every day. Conservatives are simply off the ranch.

Did you hear about the gun-owner in Clearwater, FLA who shot and killed a guy for no good reason and so far is not going to be prosecuted under the state's absurd "stand your ground" law--which was passed by GOP legislatures at the urging of the NRA. Florida Republicans, like most Republicans, have been deep in the pocket of the extremist NRA for many years--the same NRA that has been cozy with Putin's Russia and no doubt illegally took millions from Russia to spend to promote Trump's candidacy.


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2990 
It was assault.  Decide for yourself.  

The shooter still should not have shot him, as the assaulter was retreating/moving away.  The shooter took too long drawing his arm, and that gave the assaulter time to disengage.  Drawing the weapon appeared to be enough escalation to stop the immediate threat.  Of course, I was not there, and easy to second guess based on video, etc.

I do not think the shooter should have escalated with the woman for parking in a handicap spot.  Might have been fine to mention to them, but you better ready to get told to F' off, at which point your only real course of action is to call the police, realizing they will likely be out of that spot. 

If you think you are going to violently shove people around, you may want to rethink your strategy.  Shooter should not have shot based on what I could see in the video, assaulter had disengaged and even moved back from the shooter before the shot was fired.




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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #2991 
It really is pretty simple - don't put your hands on people............You could get shot...........
kazoo

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Reply with quote  #2992 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Pushing someone is not assault
Well we now know you ain’t a lawyer.
FL is a stand your ground state. He was well within his rights. Maybe he should have laid there like a pussy until the other guy shot or stabbed or just beat the carp out of him. Unlike pussified CA that is a retreat state. That’s correct, you have a lawful duty to run away in this liberal hell hole. I’m sure that is Kazoo”s preference anyway


Don't be an idiot. The victim pushed the shooter. Who instigated the incident? The shooter did. He started it; he harassed the couple. Had he been minding his own business, there would have been no incident. He's obviously a crackpot who hangs out at the shopping center acting like a parking-lot cop because he has a gun. He deserved to be pushed. After pushing him, the victim did nothing--he stood there--so your notion that he was going to shoot or stab the shooter is nonsense. There was no reason to shoot the man--that is obvious--and the shooter should be prosecuted. Stand your ground is just another example of the extremist, absurd nonsense being pushed by GOP legislators, who are making it easy for crackpots with guns to kill innocent people. They and the NRA have blood on their hands. The shooter is a grossly irresponsible gun owner--period. Let's dispense with this idiotic idea that gun owners are, ipso facto, "responsible." They are the opposite. Only paranoid crazies who've bought into this NRA BS about the need for "self-defense" buy guns. Fake suburban cowboys. 

How many people over, let's say the last 100 years, have gotten into an argument or scuffle or fight with another person and there was pushing as a result? Let's says tens of thousands. And how many people have been shot and killed because they pushed somebody? Almost none--because they didn't have guns and didn't need a gun. Two men scuffled, or fought, and then they walked away. Fight over.

Only recently has the insane, extremist NRA sold corrupt GOP legislators and rednecks on this crazy idea that everybody needs a gun and it's ok to shoot somebody if you get pushed. Good lord-- It's insanity--primitive and corrupt--and America has become a much more dangerous place because of this insanity from the NRA and corrupt Republican legislators. Thousands of innocent people have been killed because crazy, paranoid idiots like this guy own guns. Conservatives are off the ranch--completely.  

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kazoo

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Reply with quote  #2993 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Pushing someone is not assault
Well we now know you ain’t a lawyer.
FL is a stand your ground state. He was well within his rights. Maybe he should have laid there like a pussy until the other guy shot or stabbed or just beat the carp out of him. Unlike pussified CA that is a retreat state. That’s correct, you have a lawful duty to run away in this liberal hell hole. I’m sure that is Kazoo”s preference anyway


Don't be an idiot. The victim pushed the shooter. Who instigated the incident? The shooter did. He started it; he harassed the couple. Had he been minding his own business, there would have been no incident. He's obviously a crackpot who hangs out at the shopping center acting like a parking-lot cop because he has a gun. He deserved to be pushed. After pushing him, the victim did nothing--he stood there--so your notion that he was going to shoot or stab the shooter is nonsense. There was no reason to shoot the man--that is obvious--and the shooter should be prosecuted. Stand your ground is just another example of the extremist, absurd nonsense being pushed by GOP legislators, who are making it easy for crackpots with guns to kill innocent people. They and the NRA have blood on their hands. The shooter is a grossly irresponsible gun owner--period. Let's dispense with this idiotic idea that gun owners are, ipso facto, "responsible." They are the opposite. Only paranoid crazies who've bought into this NRA BS about the need for "self-defense" buy guns. Fake suburban cowboys. 

How many people over, let's say the last 100 years, have gotten into an argument or scuffle or fight with another person and there was pushing as a result? Let's says tens of thousands. And how many people have been shot and killed because they pushed somebody? Almost none--because they didn't have guns and didn't need a gun. Two men scuffled, or fought, and then they walked away. Fight over.

Only recently has the insane, extremist NRA sold corrupt GOP legislators and rednecks on this crazy idea that everybody needs a gun and it's ok to shoot somebody if you get pushed. Good lord-- It's insanity--primitive and corrupt--and America has become a much more dangerous place because of this insanity from the NRA and corrupt Republican legislators. Thousands of innocent people have been killed because crazy, paranoid idiots like this guy own guns. Conservatives are off the ranch--completely. And the shooter instigated this tragedy, not the victim. He should be prosecuted and put in prison for killing an innocent man. 

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2994 
Somebody asking you not to park in handicap unless you are handicap is not harassment.  It does not give a right to the that man to assault the guy.  You could not be anymore wrong.

Shooter still should not have shot, as assault had ended and was already deescalating before the weapon was out.  It deescalated even more quickly once the weapon was out.  No need to shoot.  I was not there, high stress situation, easy to judge second hand video, yada yada yada.  

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2995 
Iceland loves guns, no gun violence.   Makes you think.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1022156785090801664?s=19

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mikec

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Reply with quote  #2996 
Zoo - your ramblings notwithstanding, the standard is would a reasonable person under similar circumstances have fear for their life?

In this case, I say no. I am surprised he's not charged.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #2997 
BTW - in case it matters - the case has been referred to the DA for a charging decision, as it should be.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #2998 
Wrong all around but shooting the guy was an escalation that didn't seem warranted.

My questions.  1. Did he shoot him because he was black?  2. Would he have shot him in the exact same circumstance if the guy was white instead of black?  Or 3. Did he shoot him simply because he over-reacted irrespective of race?

I would say it's definitely 3 but could be 2.

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #2999 
Hey Kazoo. You want to know what’s really idiotic. How easy it is to trigger you into an emotional diatribe by typing a few words on a screen. Do you have to change your manpon after every post or just wipe the spittle off your screen.

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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #3000 
https://nypost.com/2018/07/24/no-the-stand-your-ground-law-doesnt-protect-florida-killer/




Markeis McGlockton and Michael Drejka both overreacted during their brief, fatal encounter in the parking lot of a Florida convenience store last week. McGlockton overreacted by pushing Drejka to the ground, and Drejka overreacted by drawing a pistol and shooting McGlockton in the chest.

Although it is hard to see how Drejka’s use of lethal force could have been justified, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri declined to arrest him, claiming his hands were tied by Florida’s Stand Your Ground law. But that is not true, and Gualtieri’s misrepresentation of the law has renewed misguided criticism of Florida’s approach to self-defense, which contrary to popular misconception does not give a free pass to armed hotheads who claim to have fired out of fear.


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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


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