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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #151 
I answered that once and many didn't like my answer.  I said I didn't want folks to have hand grenades, machine guns, assault style weapons, or rocket launchers, to name a few.  I also admitted I can't say with any certainty that keeping any of these weapons out of the hands of the public will save even one life.  This admission did nothing to change my mind.  That said, regardless where all this comes down, I believe you are right and we will continue to have mass shootings.  Hopefully, with some legislation, there will be fewer but we could never begin to prove that to be the case. 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #152 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Yesterday, I was told somebody's mother should never own a weapon.


You are so easily confused when you talk about guns, you are like a woman.

I said
Quote:

We don't want every law abiding citizen to carry.  Many law abiding citizens have no business carrying.  I don't want my 75+ year old mother carrying, I wouldn't mind if my aunt that is a hairdresser is carrying legally.


Now if we are talking about law abiding citizens OWNING guns, that's a horse of a different color.  My Mom does indeed possess and own guns in her home for self defense.  She says she will know what to do when/if the time comes.  Would you?

Your Barney Fife gun mentality needs to make it clear what you are talking about.  Do you understand the difference yet in carrying, carrying concealed, carrying unconcealed in your vehicle and owning guns?  like woody tried to tutor you in an earlier post

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #153 
kiir - The point I was making is someone can be law abiding and capable today and can be something entirely different weeks, months, or years from now.  Age, illness, stress, etc., all have various effects on people.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #154 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
keepintreal - We are talking hypothetically.  I doubt you live somewhere where everyone is carrying concealed weapons.  The question remains, if we arm every law abiding citizen in a State, or a Country, will shootings go up or down from where they stand today, based on whatever number of citizens are currently carrying weapons?  This is the poll question.


Again, YOU are responsible for bringing in "law abiding citizen" into the conversation.  Just like always you alone are responsible for muddying the waters in this conversation.  I see today you have done a 180

Quote:
Law abiding had nothing to do with it.  Can never know when someone might lose the ability to act in a responsible manner.
from dewey today





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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
anothersoftballdad

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Reply with quote  #155 
While every loss of life is tragic... homicides attributed to rifles (which assault weapons are considered rifles) totaled about 360 deaths out of the 8,000 plus homicides attributed to guns.

75 to 80% of the homicides with a gun are attributed to gang violence, using a hand gun and are committed by (mostly) young black and hispanic youths between 14 and 24, living in a large metropolitan area with populations of 250K or more.

Look at the common thread with a lot of the mass shootings and you'll see bullying and mental health issues which had developed in High School and never addressed within the home and or school districts.

I believe more should be done at HS level wih programs to address bullying and domestic violence.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #156 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anothersoftballdad
While every loss of life is tragic... homicides attributed to rifles (which assault weapons are considered rifles) totaled about 360 deaths out of the 8,000 plus homicides attributed to guns.

75 to 80% of the homicides with a gun are attributed to gang violence, using a hand gun and are committed by (mostly) young black and hispanic youths between 14 and 24, living in a large metropolitan area with populations of 250K or more.

Look at the common thread with a lot of the mass shootings and you'll see bullying and mental health issues which had developed in High School and never addressed within the home and or school districts.

I believe more should be done at HS level wih programs to address bullying and domestic violence.


Excellent post, along with requiring background checks for all gun buyers. [close the gun show loophole]  I think guns may be getting in the wrong hands there.  My uncle is a dealer is how I know

The good guys will still get their guns and keep them from the gang bangers and drug cartels that make it hard on the rest of us.  The left still cannot adequately answer wolfpackfan's question of why he should not be able to own an AR-15.



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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #157 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


Again, YOU are responsible for bringing in "law abiding citizen" into the conversation.  Just like always you alone are responsible for muddying the waters in this conversation.  I see today you have done a 180

Quote:
Law abiding had nothing to do with it.  Can never know when someone might lose the ability to act in a responsible manner.
from dewey today


keepinitreal - Once again, in this thread, I have no idea what you are talking about.  I simply explained to Wolfpackfan that being a law abiding citizen, which is what he asked me, had no significance in my position that certain weapons should not be available for sale.  Law abiding citizens can grow old or grow ill.  Law abiding citizens can make mistakes as it appears the mother of the recent shooter may have done.  Law abiding citizens can be coerced or threatened to give up their weapons to those who should not have them.  Law abiding citizens die leaving their weapons behind.  In other words, law abiding is good but no guarantee. I have no idea what you think I did a 180 on but I hope my point was clear enough for Wolfpackfan.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #158 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
The left still cannot adequately answer wolfpackfan's question of why he should not be able to own an AR-15.



So much for it not being a left/right issue.  You're not asking the right question.  The question should be, why does a significant segment of our population want certain weapons to be banned from sale?
anothersoftballdad

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Reply with quote  #159 
The question should be, why does a significant segment of our population want certain weapons to be banned from sale...

Exactly... why would they want weapons banned when the US Supreme Court has stated time and time again that the Second Ammendment is as sacred as your right to free speech...  It's in the Bill of Rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our gun rights first...... your right to free speech next!!!

If the liberals are so worried about the deaths of 20 children to gun violence then why don't they try and protect millions of unborn children that are destroyed through abortion?

fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #160 
This isn't a right and left issue. Do only republicans own guns?  No...Do all republicans own guns? No...What about the 20% of people who are not aligned with a party? Political party is not documented when someone purchases a gun. This is a gun issue not political one...and the results last for years (like the federal assault weapon ban of 1994 that expired in 2004 and the bill has not been picked up for renew--and that was 9 years ago)

Law abiding citizens have no issue with background checks since your background would have to show you being a law breaking citizen, or one with mental issues to be denied a gun permit.
Law breakers don't care because most of the people in america with illegal guns are teens in gangs. They don't make the guns but they find many many sources to buy them from who get them legally, file off serial numbers, and profit from arms sales. 20% of the guns gang members get are stolen. Gun stores are a big target as are trucks and freight delivering guns (this was on 20/20 with gang members talking about how they get guns). Armed gang members shooting armed gang members. And when they do target citizens they strike in packs, when you are putting groceries in car, mowing lawn, at a cafe having coffee or watching the game, etc. Gang members attack armed targets daily. They don't care if citizens are armed--rival gang members already are. The people who want all guns gone think if america gets rid of all guns we can live in xanadu holding hands singing puff the magic dragon and we are the world while watching olivia newton john skate with gene Awtry. And those wanting to ban assault weapons (again) are in the grey zone. The bans won't stop mass shootings since those people will find a way to get illegal firearms. Same as people will find a way to screw over welfare or government assistance so you can't punish law abiding ones to punish those who abuse the system.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #161 
anothersoftballdad - The last ban on assault weapons was not challenged as to its constitutionality.  Surely this time, if passed, things will be different.  Time will tell but many Americans, including me, are willing to pass it just the same.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #162 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

The question should be, why does a significant segment of our population want certain weapons to be banned from sale?


Define significant and define what certain weapons they want banned.
The talking heads don't even understand the terms they use themselves to discuss the supposed problem. They interchange automatic with semi-automatic with "assault".
How can they support an argument that they cannot even define.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #163 
Quote:
I believe more should be done at HS level wih programs to address bullying and domestic violence.


This is the real area to look at....And, even in the middle schools......Gun control is nothing but a smokescreen which ignores the real issues..... 

Quote:
If the liberals are so worried about the deaths of 20 children to gun violence then why don't they try and protect millions of unborn children that are destroyed through abortion?


Another area that has been kicked aside.....There is a terrible price to pay for being on the wrong side of what is really happening.....Gun control is a very dangerous slight of hand which hides the real issues that need to be dealt with.....
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #164 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
masare, you are talking about an issue that is not clear cut down party lines.  All democrats are not pacifists and afraid of guns like you and dewey.  There are some democrats that are some pretty big gun toters themselves.  So it is gun owners you have a problem with on this subject, not the republican party


fhoenix, I appreciate your extreme desire to referee in these matters but I said the same thing in this post on page 3.

Now back to my point, I was assuming those on this thread knew I was referring to those on the left on this thread that would not answer the AR-15 question.  wolfpackfan asked the question and it was avoided.

We can clear that up now.  dewey or masare are you gun owners?  What is your argument against a person owning an AR-15?  Are you for or against seizures of semi-automatic rifles or to have those weapons confiscated if they are banned in the future?  Are you for or against future seizures of guns, caches of ammo or high capacity magazines that are now presently owned that are legal today?   Hope that cleared up the left/right confusion.

The question I like is anothersoftball dad's question that will never get answered.  NEVER.  Why the crying, wailing and teeth gnashing by those on the left for the 20 school children recently killed but perfectly alright with millions of children dying under the guise of  women's rights, abortion on demand?  Now that is a left/right issue because conservatives are equally appalled at both losses.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 19,092
Reply with quote  #165 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad

The talking heads don't even understand the terms they use themselves to discuss the supposed problem. They interchange automatic with semi-automatic with "assault".
How can they support an argument that they cannot even define.


To prove your point I saw a poll on CNN earlier this evening that gave numbers of those that want semi-automatic weapons banned.  There were other polls mentioned but I fell over when I saw semis singled out. Now they are getting into the hunters world.  All hell will break loose.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,391
Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


We can clear that up now.  dewey or masare are you gun owners?  What is your argument against a person owning an AR-15?  Are you for or against seizures of semi-automatic rifles or to have those weapons confiscated if they are banned in the future?  Are you for or against future seizures of guns, caches of ammo or high capacity magazines that are now presently owned that are legal today?   Hope that cleared up the left/right confusion.



keepinitreal - I said it would serve no purpose for me to try and explain why I think some weapons are unnecessary just as it does me no good to hear why you think some weapons are necessary.  But I'll answer since asked.  My argument against AR-15 is the same as it would be for hand grenades, machine guns, rocket launchers, etc.  These are all too dangerous and unnecessary in order to protect your family, imo.   If you're worried about a tyrannical Government, then you need all of the above and it still wouldn't do you any good.  My position at this time is to stop the manufacture and sale of these type weapons.  I would not be in favor of going into homes to remove newly banned weapons.  With all the friends I've made in this misc forum, I will not answer if I'm a gun owner.

Now I have an appointment with ARGO.

PS:  spazsdad - I think whatever weapons Biden and Feinstein come up with will be satisfactory for me.

PS II:  Wolfpackfan, if I have avoided your question, please clarify and ask me again.  I'll review it tonight.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #167 
A ban on semi-auto guns will not ever happen in America....Everyone I know who has one would not allow their gun to be confiscated....And, most likely everyone I know has at least one, probably more than one....In many instances, every member of their family has at least one....
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #168 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Are you willing to take into consideration that the gun owning folks, like the Giffords of Arizona, and non-gun owners like me simply want some of these "excessive" weapons off the streets?  


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
With all the friends I've made in this misc forum, I will not answer if I'm a gun owner.


Sorry, dewey. You already answered that one .  It's not those on this thread you need to worry about.

Biden and Feinstein,  OMG

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 19,092
Reply with quote  #169 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Define significant and define what certain weapons they want banned.
The talking heads don't even understand the terms they use themselves to discuss the supposed problem. They interchange automatic with semi-automatic with "assault".
How can they support an argument that they cannot even define.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
A ban on semi-auto guns will not ever happen in America....Everyone I know who has one would not allow their gun to be confiscated....And, most likely everyone I know has at least one, probably more than one....In many instances, every member of their family has at least one....


I know, but some want to leave it up to Biden and Feinstein

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
fhoenix

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Posts: 4,932
Reply with quote  #170 
1. whenever they ban they do not go door to door and confiscate. During previous bans of weapons they prevented new ownership of said weapons but old ones stayed grandfathered in.

2. 1st amendment already takes a beating 24 hours a day every day. Press and Speech are regulated nomatter where you are or go and they continue to be regulated. Censorship continues too.
This forum is full of posts of people complaining about different media yet the media is free to report what, when, where, and how they want--it is their right. Lean left or right if they want. Their right.
And just like 2nd amendment your employer or a business has rights and can kick you our or not let you in because of bad language, dress code, no guns, etc.
All your freedoms are regulated once you leave your home (physically, via internet, via phone, via tv, via radio) when your freedoms and those of others are in the same sandbox.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #171 
General McChrystal is making the rounds questioning certain arms in the hands of our citizens.  Do his views carry any weight or deserve some consideration?
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #172 
Sales of armored backpacks, bulletproof briefcases, children's body armor, kevlar vests, and other body armor have skyrocketed. One maker had a clip of him shooting an employee wearing one of the backpacks in the stomach and she didn't flinch or move.
America is a dangerous place. Citizens and their children leaving their homes armed and wearing armor. It is what it is. Either be prepared or be a victim.



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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
masare

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Reply with quote  #173 
So what I am reading here is...no regulation of guns is needed because "we have the right to carry"? In this case I am supposed to trust the good ole boys who are packing to be safe with their weapons and not get mad at mommy and shoot her? Hmm I want regulation ...NOW!
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #174 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
So what I am reading here is...no regulation of guns is needed because "we have the right to carry"? In this case I am supposed to trust the good ole boys who are packing to be safe with their weapons and not get mad at mommy and shoot her? Hmm I want regulation ...NOW!

Unless by your statement you are advocating taking away all guns please explain what law would prevent your scenario?
woody

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Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
So what I am reading here is...no regulation of guns is needed because "we have the right to carry"? In this case I am supposed to trust the good ole boys who are packing to be safe with their weapons and not get mad at mommy and shoot her? Hmm I want regulation ...NOW!


Regulate yourself, and your Liberal friends, you Socialist, Marxist. As for me, I prefer living as a free man, as opposed to a regulated serf, and subject.

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You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #176 

What will the affect be of banning from Law Abiding citizens Assault weapons and high capacity magazines have on mass shootings??

Dewey: As you already know that was a baited question with only 1 correct answer.

Spent some time considering what I as a Gun Owner would concede.
1. Close the Gun Show loop hole,( even though I am not sure what that means).But I assume is not allowing private sales without a background check.
2.Making Gun Owners liable for stolen weapons used in a crime. Now before anyone freaks what I mean is Gun owners when not in possession must have their guns secured re: safe, lock box etc.If a gun owner has made a reasonable attempt to keep their firearms from being stolen then they cannot be held responsible.
Which is what any responsible gun owner should do anyway


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Go Pack!!!!!!!!!!!
rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #177 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
So what I am reading here is...no regulation of guns is needed because "we have the right to carry"? In this case I am supposed to trust the good ole boys who are packing to be safe with their weapons and not get mad at mommy and shoot her? Hmm I want regulation ...NOW!


Not gonna happen. I will never give up my weapons. Your knee jerk, whiny response is whats wrong with this country.

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I'd Challenge You to A Battle of Wits but I see your Unarmed!!!
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #178 
Expect Obama to soon issue approx 19 imperial decrees re gun control, none of which will stop the next Adam Lanza from killing a room full of kids. The sole impact of these fiats will be to assuage his whiny ill-informed liberal base, and to continue deflecting attention from failed mental health policies and rampant Big Pharma distribution of dangerous SSRI drugs. Typical of the knee-jerk Liberal onanists to ignore root causes and instead focus on ineffectual remedies.
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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #179 

Many have asked so, as a barometer for this debate, let me ask one in return.  What proof will you accept to show mass shootings have been reduced?  If some legislation is passed, I want to be prepared to understand how we will judge the results.  You do know a ban on the sale and manufacture of certain weapons will still require years before we see a significant reduction of these arms in society. 

mikec

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Reply with quote  #180 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Expect Obama to soon issue approx 19 imperial decrees re gun control, none of which will stop the next Adam Lanza from killing a room full of kids. The sole impact of these fiats will be to assuage his whiny ill-informed liberal base, and to continue deflecting attention from failed mental health policies and rampant Big Pharma distribution of dangerous SSRI drugs. Typical of the knee-jerk Liberal onanists to ignore root causes and instead focus on ineffectual remedies.


What are you - a Scientologist?

This Big Pharma SSRI thing is a common refrain in your posts.  Maybe this stuff is prescribed too often, I don't know.   But, I do know, that some kids do need some of these medications at times.

Blaming rampant violence in our society on SSRI prescriptions is a reach.
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