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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #91 
Yeah, but I still want hand grenades, machine guns, and some of that whatever banned.  How about you?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #92 
I support the Giffords who are both gun owners who believe strongly in the 2nd amendment.  Where am I going wrong?
masare

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Reply with quote  #93 
Mike I am happy to have police officers with guns...they are right ones to carry. I am absolutely against security guards in schools. I am not convinced that guns make settings more secure...in fact I think they increase the possibility of violence. Not to mention the mentality of most security professionals...if violence is the only alternative we have,
hope is truly lost for our young people.
GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #94 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
mikec - You are absolutely right.  The question is, if everyone is packing, will more fisticuffs result in shootings?  GrizzlyFan said everyone packing will put and end to fisticuffs.  If I would have said this, you guys would have ridiculed me to no end.  I think if everyone is packing, there will be significantly more shootings and America would not be a safer place.

PS:  I answered your question in another thread.  If schools want cops to patrol their campus, it's OK with me.


Dewey, my contention was that if everyone was packing, you would not have people so willing to be aggressive for fear of meeting the end of a 9MM. Hence much less confrontations, road rage, and fist fights. You imply that the only thing keeping normal people from being murderers is access to a gun.
Mass Air, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is by posting a sign in your yard saying you are anti-gun and that there are no guns on your premises? How long before your house becomes a revolving door for burglars and robbers?
Like I said before, one of the things keeping those people from victimizing you and your household is the fear that some gun packing hayseed like me lives there. Again... your welcome.
PS, yes violence IS the only alternative to evil. It is what defeats the evil people who we are confronted with. I am sure that people in the theater tried to beg and reason with the shooter, but you can't ration with someone irrational. You have to take them out. Terminate with extreme prejudice!

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
....if violence is the only alternative we have,
hope is truly lost for our young people.


We better get to the business of raisng our young people, instead of abandoning them....
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #96 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
Not to mention the mentality of most security professionals..

Well isn't that a nice stereotype from a liberal that professes that we should not stereotype people. Care to share any data to back up your claim?
Some could make the same claim about many teachers.....

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#SCOTUS
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #97 
GrizzlyFan - I'm not sure I get it.  If everyone is packing, you say people will be less likely to be confrontational.  Regarding the cases where folks can't emotionally refrain from a confrontation, do you think there will be an increase in shootings?  In other words, do you believe there will be more or less shootings if every American is armed?  Hey CoachB, this question is for you too.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #98 
Anyone that wants sex, alcohol, tobacco, porn, guns, or drugs can get them. Since the pilgrims landed there has been crime and people that profit from illegal activities.
Bans on guns, drugs, escorts/prostitution, porn, and drugs will never ever stop those who can profit from it illegally.  

Athletes still get caught using banned substances. Look at Lance Armstrong and some of the top olympic athletes. Look at pro sports and number of men and women each year caught doping.
Look at the celebs that overdoes every year on drugs. Some of the most popular actors, actresses and musicians had drug problems. Look at all the rehab centers. Rich an poor get hooked on drugs and get drugs illegally. Weed, crake and coke are everywhere in all walks of life. From mississippi to california. Celebs, athletes and regular people even post pics of themselves atparties with drugs.

Prostitution still occurs. Top athletes get caught. Politicians get caught. Millionaire actors get caught. And joe citizen gets caught. It is the oldest profession in world and has existed thru every time period, every era, and in every civilization. Prositution existed before founding and after. Go downtown in any city in any place in world and you will bump into prostitutes. When I was in winnipeg and toronto I saw more prostitutes while downtown than parked cars. In vegas they advertise them like the dolalr menu at mcdonalds. I know i am not the only person here to have been to vegas on the strip and had a zillion of those guys trying to hand you the cards for "massage" (and on tv, and in paper, and craigslist). There are even sites that advertise on tv for sex hookups that are nothing more than prostitution fronts. It is big money. Pimpin is easy and regulations and bans make the people doing it rich. A sellers market.

Prohibition didn't work. Took 2 amendments to get back to square 1 with alcohol. Underage still drink. Slipping into bars underage with or without a fake id was a rite of passage for teenagers. For attractive girls under 21 they usually got let in. So much for alcohol laws. Same with tobacco. That is an industry that has been kicked in the hoohoo over and over again. Porn used to be "keep Hustler out of newstandfs and store shelves' now it is beyond control. we are next to porn 24/7 on internet. On cable or satellite porn is next to cartoon network and weather channel. Porn regulationsare nothing more than a scratch on the buttcheeks of porn industry.

Guns have been here since day 1 and will always be here. Taking away all guns so there is no shootings would be like cutting off all male genitals so there can be no rapes.
9 shots instead of 12 matters 0% for shootings and crime rates. All that matters is background checks, sales and importing.
With more regulations it won't matter. People are going to be shot. Armed people get shot. Police get shot. Soldiers get shot. People get shot without ever getting their concealed weapon out. They get shot while shooting at someone. They get shot by accident or shoot someone else by accident. They shoot themselves on purpose and by accident. They get shot by gang violence. More or less guns won't change any of this nor will regulations on types of guns. Citizens with illegal guns don't carry them in public...criminals with illegal guns do. Gun restrictions do not effect criminals (same as stuff above I listed). Crazy people wear body armor, make bombs, and go out to kill as many as possible. You stop them by keeping them from their target NOT by banning guns. Keep them from getting in schools, theatres, etc. loaded with weapons.
There are always going to be people that break the rules and commit crimes. With welfare, drugs, guns, etc. The problems is the people doing it. There are no gun regulations or rules outside of better background checks that will matter and that is the only gun control change I support.

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #99 
Having a gun won't make most people safer (you don't see it coming or can't get gun out in time) but it will give you another option in situations when you see it coming or it is going on around you. It also gives you the option to help. Gun regulations on ammo and guntype are like giving someone eye drops for a sore throat.
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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #100 
Dewey I believe there will not only be less shootings, I believe there will be less crime overall. If you know someone has the ability to kill you right there, you are much less likely to get in his face over a parking spot.

Fhoenix, FYI, nobody here reads your lengthy cut and paste posts. You are wasting time and space.

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #101 
Griz - I read every word of every post that Fhoenix writes and find them mostly insightful and full of interpretations that are way beyond surface level and worthy of thinking about and discussing.  To me he comes across as a thinking, knowledgable, and educated individual, a reader with nature given intelligence who has experience and who thinks about especially societal  perspectives and the human condition.  I look forward to his posts more than most.     Frank 
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
woody

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Reply with quote  #102 
Bad day for an armed robber.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Robbery-victim-wants-to-thank-Good-Samaritans-who-came-to-his-rescue--186572461.html

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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Reply with quote  #103 
Towns People in Mexico have had enough. 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_MEXICO_ARMED_CIVILIANS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-12-18-48-21

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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #104 
For those that don't have a clue what they want done with gun laws in this country but they "just want something done", insert leftist naivety here, tune in to this morning's Meet the Press.  The (D) mayor of Newark, NJ Cory Booker even had some good ideas.
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #105 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyFan
Dewey I believe there will not only be less shootings, I believe there will be less crime overall. If you know someone has the ability to kill you right there, you are much less likely to get in his face over a parking spot.



While there is some truth to what you say, let me explain the difference.  In a Country our size, I'll make a wild guess and say we may have one billion heated verbal confrontations annually.  Since the vast majority aren't packing, I'll say maybe 1000 shootings happen.  If everyone were packing, heated confrontations may drop in half or more to say 500 million but, since everyone is armed, I think shootings skyrocket.

For example, if everyone in an NFL stadium were packing, would there be more shootings annually than today?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #106 
I'm all for everyone in a NFL stadium packing.  With a very severe stipulation, if you are packing and blow a .04 or over with a CHL, then you lose your CHL for minimum 5 years.  Blow a .08, you lose it forever.  Too many drunks at NFL stadiums, that's why they don't allow weapons in bars.  duh



*I am really not for NFL stadiums to allow fire arms, sometimes you need to indulge in dewey's little 'what-if' games.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #107 
keepinitreal - I'm not really asking folks to take a position on concealed weapons.  I'm questioning the comments I'm hearing daily that if everyone were packing, this would be a safer America with less shootings.  I have a difficult time buying that most people truly believe this.  The right to carry is a different subject.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #108 
Your last statement leads me to believe that you don't know the difference in 'packing' and right to carry.  To me, they are the same thing.

I think you got confused with the cheese diversion.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #109 
keepinitreal - OK, you don't like my slang term "packing" so I'll rephrase my stance.  I believe those who continue to say, "if everyone were carrying concealed weapons, there would be less shootings and we would have a safer America", are completely and totally wrong.  Now if you wish, you can tell me if you believe as I do or as they do.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #110 
I don't care if you use the term packing.  You just need to know what you are talking about.  Packing to me is licensed or unlicensed, to carry.  Which way are you intending the word to be used?  I am talking about your unusual statement in post #116 where you say
Quote:
The right to carry is a different subject.
 

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #111 
All my discussions with you and Grizzly implied "legally packing".  To be precise, we were talking about a supposed safer America if every law abiding citizen would legally carry a weapon.  I'm suggesting there would be a significant increase in shootings if such were the case and this would not be a safer place.  I used the incident in Florida as an example of how many confrontations might end.  Without coming to a conclusion on that particular incident, I'm thinking fistfights, where one starts to lose, may turn into a self defense shooting.  For the life of me, I can't see a decrease in overall shootings in an America where all those with the right are carrying concealed weapons.  What say you?
woody

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Reply with quote  #112 
Dewey, an armed society, is a polite society. I think shootings would decrease, and crime would decrease. Thugs may have a slight increase in shootings, as they kill each other off, and are killed by armed citizens. 
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #113 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
For the life of me, I can't see a decrease in overall shootings in an America where all those with the right are carrying concealed weapons.  What say you?


Happens in Texas everyday, right now.  Illinois= no carry.  Do some research on your own and compare Illinois with Texas gun violence.

Also, look at the number of robbers who have recently been stopped by armed home owners in Texas.  Numbers are definitely trending up.  The evening news is actually fun to watch now.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #114 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Dewey, an armed society, is a polite society.


Very much so.  But....since he has never lived it, he will never believe it.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #115 
woody - Thanks for the direct answer.  Not sure why keepinitreal refuses to answer similarly.  I can't help but disagree.  If every law abiding citizen in this Country were armed, the number of shootings would increase dramatically.  I think it's a mathematical certainty.  I certainly don't know why shootings would go down.  Maybe a good shooting would offset the bad shooting but overall shootings wouldn't decrease in number.  I was simply curious who agreed and who disagreed.  Thanks for your answer.  I wish we could take a poll.

PS:  I reread kiir and I guess he is also saying shootings will decrease.  I think he is.  In any event, I apologize if this is the case.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #116 
Why is this so hard dewey.  I did not say shootings WILL decrease,  I am saying they HAVE decreased.   Since Killeen, we started 'packing'.  

Maybe your accusations about me not answering a question directly has more to say about you comprehending my words.  I have little trouble with others on this site understanding my meaning.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,989
Reply with quote  #117 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
  If every law abiding citizen in this Country were armed, the number of shootings would increase dramatically.


We don't want every law abiding citizen to carry.  Many law abiding citizens have no business carrying.  I don't want my 75+ year old mother carrying, I wouldn't mind if my aunt that is a hairdresser is carrying legally.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #118 
keepintreal - We are talking hypothetically.  I doubt you live somewhere where everyone is carrying concealed weapons.  The question remains, if we arm every law abiding citizen in a State, or a Country, will shootings go up or down from where they stand today, based on whatever number of citizens are currently carrying weapons?  This is the poll question.  Now can you answer up or down?  I say if we arm everyone, (law abiding), as opposed to remaining at the number who are armed today, shootings will go up.  That's how I vote.

PS:  I'm not trying to suggest what you want to do or suggest what should be.  This was a simply a response to those who say if everyone is armed, this is a safer Country with less shootings.

PS II - I'll amend my original hypotheses to not include "everyone".  Instead I'll say if we increase the number of qualified people carrying concealed weapons in 2013 ten fold, the number of shootings in 2013 will increase.  How's that?  Now what say you?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #119 
I am not playing your hypothetical game.  I have repeated that many, many times.

You lose me when you insist on arming all law abiding citizens that are not already armed.  I don't want ALL law abiding citizens armed!!  No one else has claimed that either in this forum.

  In Texas, all law abiding citizens that WANT to be armed, are armed.  No hypothetical here in Texas.  We have sufficient numbers of armed citizens.  We are more interested in the rest of you, not trying to change our culture because you are out of control.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #120 
kiir - Maybe you should have stayed out of the conversation between Grizzly and I because you weren't following very closely.  Sorry for the confusion.  Grizzly says the more we arm the fewer the shootings and the safer our Country.  They say this on TV all the time too.  I was trying to take issue with this premise.
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