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Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
I had kinda settled on a Ruger SR9c, but I'll check out the Sig - thanks.

Better decide quick, though, while extended magazines are still available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpackfan
SIG 1911 Ultra Compact 45 Auto, Small, Accurate with a nice punch
A well known fact Ruger makes a terrible Semi Auto they look great but are inaccurate and tend to jam. Ruger does make a very nice revolver though!

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GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #32 
BIDEN 2008: 'Barack Obama ain't taking my shotguns'...

HARRY REID 2010: "I Carried a Gun Every Place I Went"...

Obama taps Biden to lead gun grab...

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyFan
fhoenix, your numbers still don't come close to adding up. This confirms my skepticism of the majority of your previous posts on several other topics.
Next time you pull numbers out of your arse to bolster your point, be sure to clean them up a bit so it isn't so obvious where they came from.


This post confirms my skepticism of you.
My numbers came from the FBI site just as the numbers for drunk driver deaths did.
You took the 30,000+ drunk driver deaths as fact because it supports your argument but simular deaths by gun "don't add up". You concentrate on MURDERS but ignore homicides, suicides, accidents. You also did not add in the drunk driver deaths but do not question that total? Are you skeptical of that too?

How do the numbers not add up? They are not my numbers they are FBI numbers.
Not add up to what?
What is the total number they do not add up to?
What is that total comprised of? Does it include deaths or just murders?

You are not saying anything except you refuse to believe the number and have no clue what the total is?

You obviously have a total number of all the USA deaths in 2011? What is it?
From center for disease and control prevention--over 2.3 million deaths in USA in 2011
American cancer society says 135,000 people die from lung cancer caused by cigarette smoking.

Did you comment on the over 30,000 drunk driver deaths? Did you add those in? Those aren't murders. Neither are the 39,000 gun related deaths.

Centers for disease control and prevention (gov site) has total deaths per year. It even breaks them down by age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, cause, location, education of person killed, etc.
Today yahoo posted an article for cdc that showed 39,595 gun deaths in 1993 and then down in 1998 to 30,708 and rollercoastering up and down in 2000s.
In 2004, there were 29,569 gun-related deaths in the United States (over half were suicides which many times they fail to mention in articles when they post gun related deaths but I am posting here)approximately 650 unintentional deaths. Over 77,000 gun related injuries.

Criminals will always have guns. Sex, drugs and firearms will always be available illegally.
You cannot ban crime. And guns will always be part of the USA (good and bad)...it is embedded in our culture.


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ice_67

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Reply with quote  #34 

Anyone see any stats on Carry Concealed Weapon(CCW) and its impact on crime?

 

I’ve heard stories(haven’t verified them yet) about the Portland shooter being approached by a CCW individual and then deciding to take his life before he shot any more victims. And the movie theater in Colorado was the only one in that area that had a ban against CCW.

 

We can restrict who enters an airport, search them, and have armed security to make sure no one gets near a plane, plain clothes officers on the planes, reinforced cockpit doors. Why can’t we do something similar with our schools?

My fear is these insane and evil individuals will just find a different location to attack. But maybe it will make it harder for them because they are not attacking defenseless teachers and children.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #35 
See post #5. I honestly thought all schools had cops, because that's the way it is here.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #36 
Republicans and independents need to stand their ground...No gun control and no raising taxes....
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #37 
No one, child or adult, should be able to get into or out of an elementary school without security noticing.
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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #38 
I agree.....No way it should be allowed to happen!
mikec

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Reply with quote  #39 
WPFan - I think your sig might be a bit rich for my blood.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ice_67

Anyone see any stats on Carry Concealed Weapon(CCW) and its impact on crime?

 

I’ve heard stories(haven’t verified them yet) about the Portland shooter being approached by a CCW individual and then deciding to take his life before he shot any more victims. And the movie theater in Colorado was the only one in that area that had a ban against CCW.

 

We can restrict who enters an airport, search them, and have armed security to make sure no one gets near a plane, plain clothes officers on the planes, reinforced cockpit doors. Why can’t we do something similar with our schools?

My fear is these insane and evil individuals will just find a different location to attack. But maybe it will make it harder for them because they are not attacking defenseless teachers and children.


Your version of the Portland shooter is correct. There are many cases where potential mass killings never became mass killings because someone else was armed and stopped the shooter.

JG, you mentioned the Power Principle earlier, assuming you were referring the the strength of the military vs armed civilians, I'd invite you to look at Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, where US had far superior firepower and can't really claim a successful outcome in any of the three. Add to that the number of civilians compared to military, national gaurd, and police, subtracting out the many in uniform who wouldn't shoot fellow Americans on behalf of a tyrannical president, and you're looking at yet another protracted military engagement that probably doesn't end well for the tyrant. Worth noting bt his is precisely why the Second Amendment exists. It has nothing to do with hunting, everything to do with preserving freedom.

Besides, doesn't the president swear to uphold the constitution at his inauguration? Trying to overturn 2A amounts to treason, if that oath carries any meaning.


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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #41 
Besides, this is a mental health issue.
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GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #42 
Fhoenix I figured out where you got the number 30,000. It is the number of words you use per post.

And no, I didn't even look at the number you had for drunk drivers. After seeing that your number for gun related deaths was bogus, I didn't bother reading any further.

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #43 
Well said, Coach.  Well said.

"I didn't vote for President Obama. But he's my president now, he's my leader. I need him to step up. Mr. Boehner, the Speaker of the House, he's a Xavier guy, he's a Cincinnati guy. He needs to step up. Parents, teachers, rabbis, priests, coaches, everybody needs to step up."



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woody

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpackfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
I had kinda settled on a Ruger SR9c, but I'll check out the Sig - thanks.

Better decide quick, though, while extended magazines are still available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpackfan
SIG 1911 Ultra Compact 45 Auto, Small, Accurate with a nice punch
A well known fact Ruger makes a terrible Semi Auto they look great but are inaccurate and tend to jam. Ruger does make a very nice revolver though!


I always liked the Bull Barreled Ruger 22 semi auto. Lightly duct tape a 16oz Coke bottle over the end of the pipe, and silence is achieved for dispatching problematic neighborhood cats. For concealed carry many of the Springfield Armory, Glock, and S&W 45 semis are way bulky, even compact models. You may consider a compromise, and look at a compact .40 cal. As for me, I carry a 2" snub nosed 38 special revolver. No jams, and no bulk on an inside the pants clip on holster. Just leave the shirt tail out, and you are good to go.

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masare

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Reply with quote  #45 
Gun control, very much needed and coming your way very soon!
woody

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Reply with quote  #46 
masare, gun control means using both hands while aiming around here.  
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #47 
gun control is very instrumental in this day and age, but if we think it will happen then we are dreamers.
Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
masare, gun control means using both hands while aiming around here.  
WELL SAID!!! Glad to hear you carry the snub revolver , at first I was thinking the Bull Nose 22 with the 16oz bottle taped on the end would be kinda bulky!!!!

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Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
Gun control, very much needed and coming your way very soon!
They agree with you

 
 
 
 

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GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #50 
From my cold dead hand MassAir
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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
.......make everyone who has the semi-auto guns hand them in.


.....It will never happen!
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #52 

Anyone doubting numbers and sources presented need to do more than say "your numbers are bogus" because you don't want to believe them. Show your numbers and sources that prove it wrong if it is wrong.

When only one person rambles on that numbers are incorrect after 2 different sources have been listed for them it is not an issue of the numbers---it is them.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and FBI site have these numbers.  Same site where 8,000 plus murders came from. Murders not deaths causes by.
I am sure anyone still arguing validity of the numbers already found the numbers to be correct and just choose to be ignorant of seeing them. It is more fun to just be insulting than to admit someone else's info you doubted over and over was correct.


In 2011, 9,878 people died in drunk driving crashes - one every 53 minutes
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration FARS data, 2012.


Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

All injury deaths

  • Number of deaths: 177,154
  • Deaths per 100,000 population: 57.7

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

  • Number of deaths: 34,485
  • Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All poisoning deaths

  • Number of deaths: 41,592
  • Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.5

All firearm deaths

  • Number of deaths: 31,347
  • Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

These are from 2009 where all the data is complete as a chart to post.
The 2010 and 2011 data is available as a 65 page pdf on the site. The overall deaths stats are there to read and type here but not in chart form for those years.
From 1976 to 2009 are.


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mikec

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Reply with quote  #53 
You can't ban every semi-auto. Geez, the rifle I used for deer was semi-auto.

And, how big of a magazine is too big?

Not gonna happen.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #54 
Wow, what all counts as poisoning?

Curious what the gun relatd deaths would look like broken down between concealed carry permit holders and non-CCP. Because any new laws won't mean anything to criminals, they will only impact legal gun owners. And I know there is a difference between CCP and owning a gun, but most legal gun owners aren't committing these mass killings.

Anything they ban will still be in the hands of criminals, making society at large more vulnerable, and if they can't stop the flow of illegal,aliens and tons of drugs into the country, they won't be able to stop the illegal import of banned guns either. It's a complicated problem we are looking at, and goes well beyond guns.

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Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Wow, what all counts as poisoning? Curious what the gun relatd deaths would look like broken down between concealed carry permit holders and non-CCP. Because any new laws won't mean anything to criminals, they will only impact legal gun owners. And I know there is a difference between CCP and owning a gun, but most legal gun owners aren't committing these mass killings. Anything they ban will still be in the hands of criminals, making society at large more vulnerable, and if they can't stop the flow of illegal,aliens and tons of drugs into the country, they won't be able to stop the illegal import of banned guns either. It's a complicated problem we are looking at, and goes well beyond guns.
Everything you say makes perfect sense and for the life of me I cannot grasp why there is a large portion of the population that cannot understand the real problem. The Anti gun groups want to ban the tool instead of facing that it is a mental health issue. It is the desensitizing of are young people with violent video games , violent movies  the Internet with so much garbage available to these kids. There are a lot of people with real problems unfortunatly there are a lot of people who know about these problems but ignore them or hope they just go away.

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #56 
No president in our lifetime will ever have troops go door to door to get currently or newly banned weapons from citizens. They would buy them back (like australia did) and get a small portion of them off the street and any person caught with the illegal firearms (in public, in their car during a traffic stop or while at a ballgame, in their home because police were there due to domestic dispute, break in, etc) would have the illegal weapons confiscated by authorities and the person fined. Same as now with people that have illegal weapons. Don't get caught with them. As long as you keep them at home for security and protection it's all good.

The black market has always existed since the 1700s. Always a source to provide firearms, sex, drugs, and alcohol even if it is illegal in that town, city, state, etc.
This means anyone wanting to do kill, rob, car jack or commit other crimes will get the best available weapon they can afford or steal.
Even during the wild west and other times the best a town, city state, or government could do was disarm you in public (anywhere but your home).

Guns are a part of the this country from the founding til now. We cannot compare other countries...they were around long long before america was born. They fought ancient wars and battles before usa became a colony of england. Gunpowder existed before america became a colony and before it was a country. The NRA museum has a copy of a gun used by John Alden when the mayflower set anchor in cape cod and the pilgrims landed at plymoth rock in 1620. Guns were brought to the new world. We never knew swords, armor, crossbows, knights, roman empire, gauls, hannibal, mongols, age of the samurai, ming dynasty, egyptian chariots and pharohs, etc...we started with gunpowder and will keep it until technology makes it obsolete for protection/wars/attacking and only for sport/hunting (like bows, spears). The compact size of most handguns means you will still have people conceal and carry to commit crimes even with better tech since ballistic weapons would still kill and newer tech would not be affordable for most people. I told my friends this and they doubted. I told them to look at sci fi movies and tv like star wars and star trek and put a Russian Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23 in the hands of one side instead of blasters or phasers. This weapon fires around 10,000 rounds per minute. Armor in the future is designed to stop energy and light (refrac). Ballistic weapons go right thru. The issue with ballistic is gravity is an issue thus you cannot go ship to ship fighting in 0 G with them. Look at the movie aleins. When all else fails with tech use you gun. It won't penetrate a nuclear reactor while still cutting down your enemies.
Guns are here to stay long after any of us. There is no solution to prevent crimes with guns......and no solution to prevent criminal minds from getting them....the best we can do is be prepared when it happens (security, armed guards, cameras, alarms on windows that are broken, armed citizens to discourage wanna be criminals).

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Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
You can't ban every semi-auto. Geez, the rifle I used for deer was semi-auto. And, how big of a magazine is too big? Not gonna happen.
Don't be to sure!! The Anti gun groups are going to parade those poor grieving parents from Newtown in front of the cameras and the media is going to exploit it to the max.

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #58 
Dewey - I just read your post 16 reply to my question about abortion.  As usual, when confronted with your own hypocrisy, you resort to condescension and insults.  I readily offered up that I was serious about my change in views on gun control.  But the left wants everything their own way.  I used to believe in the death penalty until I realized that it hypocritical to believe in the death penalty and be pro life.  Similarly, you and your ilk on the left are hypocritical in your selective outrage.  You blame the gun instead of the gun owner and you want to outlaw guns while the number of abortions dwarfs all other types of murder.  Your president believes you can still murder a baby even after it's been born.  The more I read your posts and how you never will admit your hypocritical positions, the more I realize that this country's days as the best on Earth will have vanished during the Obama regime.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Anything they ban will still be in the hands of criminals, making society at large more vulnerable, and if they can't stop the flow of illegal,aliens and tons of drugs into the country, they won't be able to stop the illegal import of banned guns either. It's a complicated problem we are looking at, and goes well beyond guns.


Bullseye!

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #60 
pabar - You proposed, in your earlier post, an impossible negotiation and then told us you were only interested in answers of yes or no as if we should not provide a more lengthy explanation.  A post made in this manner should be ignored, like everyone but me did, but I took the time to provide one.  I apologize if you find me saying "you are way too smart for such a proposal" as something other than admiration for your ability to think deeply in your many posts, but I truly didn't know if you were testing us to see which principles we are serious about and which ones we are able to negotiate away.  I cannot, and will not, negotiate my support for women's rights in exchange for someone else willing to offer up some sacrifice with regards to gun rights.  With more respect than I offered up in my first reply, (I'm truly sorry as I don't show up here to offend people and it's obvious now that you were offended), I find it hard to accept that you thought such a negotiation could work.

As for me being a hypocrite, I ask you as I ask everyone else who goes down this road to substantiate this accusation with a couple of my posts pointing out why you feel this way so I can apologize or correct the misunderstood conclusion.  It seems the burden of proof should be on the accuser but few take the time to make their case.  I hope you won't do the same.

Just to make my positions clear, I am against abortion in most cases just as I'm against a law denying a woman the right to choose.  Secondly, I am for the right to bear arms just as I'm against the right to bear particular guns, chemical weapons, hand grenades, and many other weapons I won't list now.

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