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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #91 

fhoenix-

Understand your plea for protecting school children. As I read your and others suggestions, I think to...

As a basketball official, pre-dated the step to three officials. When expansion beyond a mere lead and trail officiating and adding a third, many questioned...

"If we add a third person to the crew, won't these additional officials be garnered from the leftovers?"

If some of the reported decision making by TSA agents is considered, then you can see my trepidation. Put some battle hardened vets from our armed forces who have learned some comparable skills while serving in the Middle East in these positions, I might think tax dollars well spent.

But in all honesty, I'd rather build open campus facilities, invite an air of trust and freedom and suffer the consequences of the actions of a few. Just how much do we want to sacrafice in freedom in the name of safe society.

Consider this,

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Please note that "domestic Tranquility" and "general Welfare" are wrapped around the passage concerning "provide for a common defence". I would promote a path of high expectation of our fellow man. Lest live in society more in common to that experienced by my literary relative, Winston Smith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four


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GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #92 
Can one of the liberals answer this question:
Does Obama send his kids to a "gun free zone" school?
Well I know you won't answer.
So I will give you the answer.
NO!!!
The school where Obama's daughters go has 11 yes ELEVEN!!! Armed security guards!!

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
ice_67

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Reply with quote  #93 
Any bets on whether the police will enforce this gun law violation?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57560861/d.c-police-investigating-meet-the-press-over-gun-prop/

woody

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Reply with quote  #94 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
I'll stick my toe into this conversation simply to get clarification on some of these various positions.  A hand grenade, like assault or semi-assault weapons, would be a particularly good weapon for repel purposes so I ask, should hand grenades be included among the arms we have a right to bear?


Dewey, a hand grenade is not a very good repel weapon in a home, or business. That said, an explosive device such as a hand grenade would be hard to qualify as a defensive weapon for a citizen, unless we are under attack by foreign countries. Stick to trying to call all semi automatic weapons "assault" weapons. This is what your hero Feinstein will attempt in January. Any guesses as to how a vote on the bill she will sponsor in the Senate will go? I have a prediction, and that is nowhere. Good luck with using a tragedy in CT to implement the gutting of the constitution. This is your party, they want to do a lot of little tweaking, in order to make that Constitution thingy acceptable to them, and the more equal animals.

By the way, isn't it rather contradictory, that Feinstein and family, as well as many other Democratic lawmakers, are provided security details, that are using fully automatic assault weapons, and pistols with high capacity magazines, for their protection behind gated walls? Why should these elected "voices of the people" be afforded any more rights in the defense of themselves, their families, and their property, than you or me?

  http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody


Dewey, a hand grenade is not a very good repel weapon in a home, or business. That said, an explosive device such as a hand grenade would be hard to qualify as a defensive weapon for a citizen, unless we are under attack by foreign countries.


So if our Federal Government run amok comes after our community, hand grenades would be of no help?  I'll take it you want to ban the right to bear hand grenades so I'll think up another "arm" to use as an analogy.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #96 
Dewey, you didn't answer the Feinstein question that Woody asked....
woody

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Reply with quote  #97 
Yes Dewey, please do not avoid the Feinstein question, it is the most central to our debate.

Dewey, rest assured, that those of the public that will defend your rights, while you "go along with change", can and do have the capabilities to make those devices, and repel any threat that might be offered by a central government, which by the way, will not have the support of it's armies, nor national guard, nor state national guard units, should they choose to attempt such "running amok".

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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #98 
woody and bluedog - If the question is what do I want Sen. Feinstein to do, I want her to submit as restrictive a Bill as she can gather enough votes for passage.  If all we can outlaw is hand grenades, then we'll have to pass that and then revisit this subject if and when we gain more votes.  Only she knows how far we can get.  Whatever the result, it's time to vote.  Same with tax rates.  We argue for months and months on issues everyone has already decided upon.  I'm for voting already and putting an end to this endless divisive debate.  Imagine a campaign with no election date.  Geez.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #99 

I'm for voting already and putting an end to this endless divisive debate.

Let me rhetorically ask,

"Didn't we vote in November? How is that working to end any perceived divide"

Regarding weapons. This is an ongoing debate that will never end. NRA vs. Pacifists

There are others: Sierra Club vs. Off-Road Vehicle Owners, Planned Parenthood vs. National Right to Life Committee, PETA vs. Fur Industry & the ACLU vs. Everybody.

Every time one or the other feels there is an advantage to be had, they jump to pound the publicity drum for their cause(s). Advocacy for a cause is fine. My way or highway isn't my idea of United States of America. More like...

yoU Scream out America...and they do.


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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #100 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
I'm for voting already and putting an end to this endless divisive debate.  Imagine a campaign with no election date.  Geez.

Interesting since the House has voted many times on many items over the last 4 years and every time Reid says that he won't even allow a vote in the Senate. What is he afraid of with his obstructionist policies? Is it perhaps that some items will actually pass the Senate and his aura of control and invincibility will be broken?

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#SCOTUS

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #101 
Bill - You're right.  I should have said temporarily halt the debate until the next time folks think those in the middle are ready to move one way or the other.  You and I could sit in a room and tell each other a million times why we want this or that and at some point we'd have to stop and vote, assuming a choice was available.  Otherwise, time to move on until the next time somebody figures an opportunity to vote becomes available.  Of course there will always be a line on every subject that divides us but at some time we have to choose a standard as a society and then put it aside for awhile.

spazsdad - The Speaker wouldn't allow the House to vote on the Senate bill either.  But don't fret, both sides are going to vote on the same bill regarding changes in our tax rates sooner than you realize.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #102 
Woody, don't look like Dewey is gonna answer the Feinstein question....Politicians, and their kids, will be guarded with guns....Others will have to make do...
woody

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Reply with quote  #103 
Note to Dewey, hand grenades are illegal for citizens to posses. AR-15's, or a Glock 9mm pistol, with a 14 round clip are not. For now. Rest assured, when your rights, along with mine are taken away, those that implement the assault on our constitutional rights, will be exempt from the measures they enact upon the serfs. Makes you proud to be a Socialist Democrat don't it? I feel more equal than others everyday. Is that a fault, or am I turning into an elitist Socialist Democrat, that knows better than the common animals, and therefore is entitled to ride herd on the more common animals?? I feel emboldened, don't you? After all, the Progressives, sequestered in news rooms, coffee houses, and "think tanks",  know what is best for us, and we shouldn't raise any objections to their "compassionate" care for us as a society. I will instead, insert finger in throat, and hurl in the general direction of your Socialist Deity, and all they represent, and those on either side of the aisle that do harm to our nation, "for the better good" of all the lower class animals...If all else fails, in the words of Monty Python, I will wave my privates, in the general direction of your Auntie, and in addition the West Coast, and the Liberal Loser Northeast, from whenst comes all legislation that would regulate, and encumber the free expression of individual liberty, and individual economic freedom. Take a hike Socialist. Just sayin'.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Reply with quote  #104 
Come on Dewey, answer the Feinstein question. It is the very most central part of the debate. Some are more equal than others right? Just say it.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #105 
bluedog - I have no idea if Senators get security details armed as woody suggests.  Many politicians are given security unavailable to the rest of us.  If you want to take automatic weapons away from these folks, draft a bill already.  In fact, I have to ask, regarding every subject folks on the Right throw out around here, be it too many on disability payments to these politicians getting security, why doesn't your GOP run House put these type bills up for passage?  It seems to me if the answers are so obvious to the American people, the Speaker should love to make the Dems and Senate look foolish by refusing to vote or allow a vote on a position clear to everyone else.  I think it's because the solutions are far more difficult than most of us can understand.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #106 
Dewey, in this one instance he makes this claim. My civics may be a little rusty but doesn't a bill from the House have to be voted on in he Senate before it is amended and sent back to the House for a new vote? But even so he continually refuses to allow bills hat have come from the House to be brought to the floor for a vote, then he claims that the Republicans are obstructionists and his media reports such as fact.

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#SCOTUS

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #107 
woody - With regards to arms we have a right to bear, you've named one that should be excluded and some that shouldn't be excluded.  You see, in a way, you and I aren't that much different.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #108 
spazsdad - I'm certain your civics is way better than mine but I doubt a bill even has to be amended.  If the Senate signs off on a bill sent from the House, then simply sent it to the President.  If it is altered then, from wherever it originates, I'm sure it's going back to the other side for approval.

I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of the bills passed in the House would not have passed in the Senate, (I can't think of one instance where this might be wrong).  However, my understanding is the Senate bill extending lower rates for everyone under $250,000 would have a chance in the House.  Big difference.  However, this one aside, most of these bills are passed with no expectation of being accepted but rather to win over constituents or to embarrass the opposition.  I think they call it posturing.
woody

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Reply with quote  #109 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
woody - With regards to arms we have a right to bear, you've named one that should be excluded and some that shouldn't be excluded.  You see, in a way, you and I aren't that much different.


Quite the contrary Dewey, you believe that weapons that are now legal, should be regulated and banned. How far apart could we be? How far will you go to support those that would diminish our Constitutional rights and freedoms guaranteed by the 2nd amendment? I just ask for a yes or no answer. Do you support the ban on currently legal firearms, and the degradation of our 2nd amendment rights as described in the Constitution? Yes or No would be a break from the vague responses you often present.

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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #110 
woody - I think everything was legal until it was illegal.  Not sure where that argument takes us.  I told you previously, I'm not smart enough to name off which weapons I would allow and which ones I would make illegal.  I'd have to see them individually or have it explained to me.  Rocket launchers, chemical weapons, guns that can shoot a whole lot of bullets without reloading, probably all fall in the "Dewey don't like" category but, like I said, I'll let my Senator figure this out, to the best of her ability, and support her.

PS:  Geez, I share my opinion as much as anyone here and to be accused of being vague is hard to understand.  Speak up if you're confused where I stand.  I agree, some issues I know little about, don't care to learn more about, or have no interest in debating, but I'll tell you that should you ask.
woody

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Reply with quote  #111 
So, I take your continued vague answer, as meaning that you will support the gutting of the 2nd ammendment and the other constitutional rights that the 2nd ammendment protects, by "your" Senator. Spoken like a true Socialist, that will not give a yes or no answer to a direct question. I notice the squirming in the chair you occupy, and it is not at all unlike your debate style.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #112 
woody - Still don't know what you are calling vague but I will repeat, I believe in the right to bear arms.  Like you, hand grenades shouldn't be one of them.  Admittedly, I have many more to include on that list than you would but not sure where that get us.  Just another one of those lines that we can only resolve through a vote.  Not sure what else to say.

Edit: I keep reading you saying I'm not answering you and I can't quite figure it out.  If you're asking if I'm willing to add more weapons to the "banned" list, or things like ending the gun show loopholes, isn't that clear?  What else would we be discussing here?  Yes and yes.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #113 

Admittedly, I have many more to include on that list...

Why? Dewey, you profess to know little about weapons. How could you in good conscience vote based on the latest headline?

Just AR-15s...this time?

What if the assailant had used a semi-automatic shot gun? That in lieu of the AR-15?

Same death toll could have been accomplished with a pair of Colt .45 six-shooters and a Winchester lever-action rifle. Ban those?

Sorry, old friend. My original post in this thread has come to fruit. Knee jerk decison making. Advantage gun control activists.


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mikec

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Reply with quote  #114 
I think this is, in fact, the only stimulus program that Obama has created that has created jobs.  I know lots of people who are buying high-capacity magazines, and some types of weapons, before a potential ban.

I don't know too many buying ammo, though there are stories of that too.  So, the gun industry, and its spinoffs, have been one of the few benefactors of the Obama administration's policies.

Nice work, Mr. POTUS.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #115 
Bill - As I said early on in this thread, I have no desire to explain, persuade, substantiate, or convince others as to why I think it would be wise to limit some of these weapons, just as I have no desire to explain or persuade others as to why I feel abortion should remain legal.  I don't see anything for me to gain in this debate and I'm comfortable knowing there are nine SC Justices who will stop me, or should I say our Representatives, from going too far.  I stuck my toe into the middle simply to show there are "arms" that even those opposing my view feel should be banned.  I thought it was a worthy note to mull over.

PS:  There has been no change in my position but it appears incidents like this do move some folks and attempts at legislation usually follows.

PS II:  I will tell you the six shooters would not be on my list but I won't try to justify why.  Again, I'm just asking our Representatives to kick it around between themselves and vote.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #116 
Dewey - I, not being as elequent nor well versed as you, resort to the old Pennsylvania Deutschman's question - "Vy is it dat ven der are zo vew orses, der ar zo many orzez azzes?      Frank   
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
woody

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Reply with quote  #117 
Well JG, for those of us not fluent in Dutch, you make as clear a statement as Dewey.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #118 

Dewey, I understand your attitude. You prefer certain weapons to be unavailable to the general populace. NRA wants more relaxed standards applied. Those of us in the middle must decide again.

What I don't like, is either side swaying the fence-riders with illogical rhetoric or blind faith. Seems like the Nov. election all over again.

Crazy.


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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #119 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith

What I don't like, is either side swaying the fence-riders with illogical rhetoric or blind faith. Seems like the Nov. election all over again.



Bill - You know how much I respect your well thought out opinions but, having said that, both those labels you just noted would have been applied to me by many of my UCS opponents inside here with regards to our recent election.  I'm not reading anything personal into your comments but, those who agree similarly would have used this same logic and considered me unqualified, or out of line, to speak up during our recent Presidential campaign.  I don't totally disagree but it's another fine line.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #120 
I hope my well-established fence straddling here at UCS would lead you to believe that I view both sides of the presidential debate to be polarized. And for the most part, those here in the Misc. Items threads to be less than crazy. At most, those more strident posters are just merely...annoying.

Finding a tenable position between all or nothing is a dilemma for a democracy. This issue is another reminder. And I don't like it.

And one more thing, I hold you to a higher standard than most.

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