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UAFan06

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAFan06
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Wanabe,

Recently, you suggested my posts were akin to "torture".  If a little humorous criticizing is personalizing it, then I guess we are both guilty.

I applaud UMassFan for linking Mr. Hays columns as I too have done on several occasions.  I especially applaud WhatdoIknow for "pinning" a thread dedicated entirely to these columns.  I understand and appreciate the increased awareness this writer is bringing to the sport in general and, in a roundabout way, bringing to this forum too.  How can it be anything but a good thing?  Hopefully, the vast majority of softball fans feel equally excited about an ESPN writer dedicated to writing about our beloved sport.

No, I'm not trying to quash your right to criticize.  But in these two articles, in my opinion, the reach appeared extreme to find something to criticize.  If comments like yours succeeded, in any way, to silence Mr. Hays coverage, or the linking of such coverage in this forum, we'd be the poorer for it.  For that reason alone, I'll continue to champion Graham's articles on softball and reserve my right to counter the criticisms of others when necessary.  My apologies if what little humor I can conjure up these days came off as offensive.

Dear God, let the season begin.    

   

Dewey:

You talk of the increased awareness brought to the sport by Mr. Hay's articles.  Other than when linked here on UCS, I defy you to tell me how one would even know about Mr. Hay's articles.  If you go to ESPN.com, one could not ever find him or anything pertaining to softball.  If you happen to know the "backdoor" to his writings you can keep track of him, but for a casual fan going to the ESPN website, they'll never find him.  So, the exposure he brings is almost non-existent other than to those avid UCS fans.



Actually if you go to ESPNU.com then you will see Mr. Hay's articles right there on the front page.  Most fans of all college sports frequent ESPNU.com seeing it is the ESPN site and web address for coverage of all college sports.  So while it might not be front page of ESPN.com, it still is easily found for most people.

Nowhere on his "blog" is the site ESPNU.com referred to.  He has also in the past indicated that he writes for ESPN.com.  A casual fan would never find this.  That is the point. 


Then we will clearly have to agree to disagree. I think that a casual fan can easily find it on the ESPNU.com or ESPN college sports page. Like I said, they are clearly visible on those pages...if you don't believe, try it out for yourself.

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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #62 
In a report that will fly lower than the esteemed Mr. Hays offerings...

Chico St. def. Academy of the Arts 2-1 @ Stanislaus St. Turlock, CA

Cox game winning hit in the bottom of the seventh for the Wildcats.

Host Stanislaus St. leads Chico St. 4-0 after three innings.

Link: http://www.csuswarriors.com/livestats/sb/

PS I've had people unconnected to softball remark to me knowing my own about having "read something" about the sport. Everything from actual ballgames, human interest pieces to the exploits of the horseymen...and it could be led back to...yup, that damn cracker.

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wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudDad
I have not had any trouble finding articles written by Hays without using the link on UCS. I followed his articles pertaining to softball long before that link was posted on UCS.

I enjoy his writing style and the content of his articles very much. I believe you're being too harsh in your evaluation of him and the comparisons he's making of the players on these teams. While you see him commenting to much on Donnenwirth of ASU in the Stanford article, I saw it as a clever segue introducing Stanford's super frosh Hansen. In the Northwestern article he wrote far more than he did in other articles. While writing an opening paragraph about Northwestern he transitioned into discussing their new volunteer coach. A coach who was on the most recent Olympic team and who had attended Stanford. It ties these articles together for me and I found it a very interesting read.

I am puzzled at the need to be critical and to defend that criticism so strongly with greater criticism of one of the finest and most admired posters on this forum. Yes he said something in frustration about you. Certainly it is your right to be critical. I just find your criticism in this case excessive and unjustified. It strikes me as nit picking and unnecessary. This is only my opinion and one you are free to ignore or dispute. I am critical of selected posters at times myself. Typically it is because of a slight perceived by me toward someone or something I am connected to or in support of. I would ask you to reflect on the positive attention Mr. Hays brings to softball and support this endeavor rather than be critical of his style or content. Should you feel the need to share your opinions openly of his work in the future please consider doing it with an email to him or a private message with those you feel comfortable with.

To Graham Hays. Thank you and please continue. I look froward to your next article.
Fantastic post.
WanabeHorsey

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Reply with quote  #64 
PD,
The man is a columnist.  Because he writes about a sport that we love doesn't mean he is untouchable.  I find it offensive that some of us are attacked simply because we are critical of a sportswriter, and then attacked further for defending our points after we are criticized for expressing our opinion on an open forum.

Just because as you suggest a particular poster is nice and respected doesn't give him any more right to be critical of our posts than we can be of his.  He did something in "frustration", yet in our case it is excessive and unjustified.  For crying out loud, we are critical of a sportswriter and have a disagreement with a poster, and it is the most horrible offense imaginable.  Your suggestion to write mister Hayes obviates the interaction of a forum.  By the way, I have emailed him in the past and did not receive a response.  My email was polite.  I can't imagine that he would stop writing about softball simply because of criticism on a public forum.
GR_Eagle

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Reply with quote  #65 
He is a decent writer and has even took the time to respond to an e-mail or two in the past which was something he didn't have to do. 

Maybe it's a stretch to do previews for twenty or so teams when the content isn't that good?  I preferred his season previews in past years which touched on a lot of different teams without having to "stretch" for material. 

Just no Tebow in the Florida preview

WanabeHorsey

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Reply with quote  #66 
PD said: "Your posts and the responses of others made me think about what was written and why. That in itself is not a bad thing. As someone before me wrote we agree to disagree on Mr Hays and his writings about softball. "

Exactly, and when I did so, rather than in addition to expressing disagreement with my specifics, some suggested for a variety of reasons, mostly because softball is loved by this community (as do I), the writer shouldn't be criticized.  Many disagreed with and often times criticized Jim Murray.  That's what takes place on forums, in sports bars and the like.  Even though on a personal level I agree with the same advice I received from my Mother, this would would a very be bland and boring forum if it only contained posts that were nice; about coaches, programs, organizations, columnists, etc.  I did not call Hayes names, nor did I impugn his integrity, and I certainly didn't suggest censoring him..  I was simply critical of his content and writing

And now, as many great posters that have come before me have said, "this is my last post on this matter".
UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #67 
4. Washington
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3878606&name=college_sports

Hays did mention reader comments at the beginning of this piece. I would recommend reading them.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #68 

newbie1

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Reply with quote  #69 
Dewey:

I think the above article has proven my point.  Apparently criticism has improved Mr. Hay's writing even by his own admission albeit defensively.  The fear by those of you that criticism would drive him from our beloved softball was incorrect and has had just the opposite effect.  Notice the detail contained in the Washington report.

I wonder which little birdie whispered in his ear, Dewey?

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Jim Kabacoff
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #70 
Newbie1...you exaggerate. 

a)  Actually, we were told that this criticism had no motive... but we both know there is no such thing.

b)  Again, no one is squelching criticism.  Critical comment #34 was left alone.  The need to be critical once again in #45 was inviting a response, (probably the primary motive).

c)  The only fear I have is that the "downer" attitude that appears to be surfacing more often these days is driving members from this site.  And my responding to, or debating, this trend is probably just making things worse.


wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1
I'm only guessing, but I don't think Wanabe objects to Mr. Hay's writing style as much as maybe Mr. Hay's ignorance as to the content.  I too find Mr. Hay's knowledge of the sport lacking for a purported expert.
I can vouch from personal correspondence with Mr. Hays that this is simply false.  100%, false.
newbie1

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Newbie1...you exaggerate.  What am I exaggerating?  If you're referring to my statement that apparently our criticism changed his writing, well it did, even by his own admission.

a)  Actually, we were told that this criticism had no motive... but we both know there is no such thing.  I had no motive, other than to spur discussion, which I believe is what this forum is all about. I did that.

b)  Again, no one is squelching criticism.  Yes, that is exactly what you're trying to do.  You just want us all to revel in Mr. Hay's reporting just so he doesn't pick up his marbles and go home.  That's just ridiculous.  His opinions are open to criticism just as yours or mine and if you posted an opinion just as empty of facts as his, I'd criticize you too.  Critical comment #34 was left alone.  The need to be critical once again in #45 was inviting a response, (probably the primary motive).  They appear to be posted to provoke discussion.

c)  The only fear I have is that the "downer" attitude that appears to be surfacing more often these days is driving members from this site.  And my responding to, or debating, this trend is probably just making things worse.  What you and others of your ilk would like is a forum where everyone is in agreement with each other, everyone only discusses the good and everything is all peaches and cream.  Well, if your looking to drive members away from this site, that's whats going to do it, not legitimate discussion and debate. 



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Jim Kabacoff
newbie1

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Reply with quote  #73 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvuasports
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1
I'm only guessing, but I don't think Wanabe objects to Mr. Hay's writing style as much as maybe Mr. Hay's ignorance as to the content.  I too find Mr. Hay's knowledge of the sport lacking for a purported expert.
I can vouch from personal correspondence with Mr. Hays that this is simply false.  100%, false.

It is my opinion that Mr. Hay's knowledge is lacking.  If you have a differing opinion, that's fine.  But, otherwise, who appointed you as the authority?


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Jim Kabacoff
wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1

It is my opinion that Mr. Hay's knowledge is lacking.  If you are a differing opinion, that's fine.  But, otherwise, who appointed you as the authority?

Nobody did.  But if you're going to opine about how he is "lacking in knowledge," I will let you know that I think you're dead wrong based on my personal discussions with him.
sftblgod

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Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvuasports
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1

It is my opinion that Mr. Hay's knowledge is lacking.  If you are a differing opinion, that's fine.  But, otherwise, who appointed you as the authority?

Nobody did.  But if you're going to opine about how he is "lacking in knowledge," I will let you know that I think you're dead wrong.

I did as the forum Deity.

wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sftblgod
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvuasports
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie1

It is my opinion that Mr. Hay's knowledge is lacking.  If you are a differing opinion, that's fine.  But, otherwise, who appointed you as the authority?

Nobody did.  But if you're going to opine about how he is "lacking in knowledge," I will let you know that I think you're dead wrong.

I did as the forum Deity.


Dewey

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Reply with quote  #77 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Dear God, let the season begin.    

Sftblgod,

And what about me?

sftblgod

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Dear God, let the season begin.    

Sftblgod,

And what about me?

In your patience possess you your souls.
rrtiger

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Posts: 159
Reply with quote  #79 
Gee, Mr. Hay's ears must be ringing:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3878606&searchName=college_sports&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3878606%26searchName%3dcollege_sports
UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #80 
3. UCLA
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3881599&name=college_sports

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UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #81 
2. Alabama
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3884429&name=college_sports

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UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #82 
1. Florida
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3886417&name=college_sports

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UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #83 
A Look at the Emerging SEC
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3884649

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UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #84 
5 Burning Questions
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3884600

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UMassFan

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Reply with quote  #85 
ESPN's 2009 Preseason All Americans
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3884682

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TideKid

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Reply with quote  #86 
Graham,

Hope ESPN is paying you well.....look forward to the rest of this season's articles!




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wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #87 
Some terrific articles there by Graham.  Good article on the SEC, and his All-American picks are pretty much spot on.

Oh, and how refreshing it is to see a columnist embrace sabermetric statistics like OPS. 

Graham lacks knowledge?  Hardly.

Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #88 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3893608&name=college_sports


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Wolfpackfan

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Reply with quote  #89 
Same to you...if we can pry LMSS out of her Belair Estate maybe she will buy us a couple(of dozen) cold ones in Palm Springs!!!
And just so everyone knows I AM MUCH BETTER LOOKING THEN PD!!!!!

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Chapple

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Reply with quote  #90 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudDad
Nice article Wolfpackfan. Great to finally meet you on Saturday. That was some game your pitcher through the night before while striking out 17 batters! Your team looks solid and I liked your coaches as well! Best of luck this season!

p.s. no way Dean is better looking than Jerry! He's Jealous 






I especially enjoyed the part of the article below.  Too bad weather kept KU and Nevada from playing Sunday.  I think it would have been a really good game. 

A good weekend for the Big 12 extended beyond Baylor upsetting No. 1 Florida in Gainesville behind freshman pitcher Whitney Canion. Kansas left Tempe with a 2-2 record, but that included upset wins against Arizona and Northwestern. Oklahoma State finished on a down note in the desert, dropping an 8-5 decision against Central Florida, but Anna Whiddon's three-hit shutout propelled the Cowgirls to a 1-0 win against Stanford on Friday and a 3-1 record overall.

PD hope to meet you in a couple of weeks.  Schedules for KU and ASU this last weekend were almost identical so couldn't come up to Farrington to meet you. 
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