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CatFan

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Reply with quote  #91 

Arizona needs improvement on the mound

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #92 

Nelson carries stellar arm and a smile

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #93 
Mr. Hays opens with..."When each new day brings grimmer news and harsher realities on fronts both foreign and domestic, it becomes abundantly clear that fun is in ever shorter supply."
 
Cheers to that!
Fpitch9

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Reply with quote  #94 
The smile is what I'll always remember long after her playing days are done. Sure, she's breaking records left and right at UF and is a nightmare for opponents in the circle, but that smile is infectious and as a fan of the game, I just love seeing kids out there having fun. And no one has more fun than Stacey.
volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #95 


Hmm... I wasn't aware that Bama lost to ASU in the national championship series. I thought all this time that was Texas A&M.

Seriously. Graham Hays isn't very good. But then again, his employer is ESPN where mediocrity is the rule rather than the exception.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #96 

On June 1, 2008, ASU defeated Alabama, 3-1, in the WCWS, sometimes known as the series to determine the national championship.

volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #97 
First of all, that link doesn't work for me.

Secondly, the article says: lost to Arizona State in the Women's College World Series national championship series, which refers to the three-game series between the eventual champs and runners-up -- which was ASU and Texas A&M last year -- after the other six teams have been eliminated.

He needs to drop the national championship series  part. I mean, I don't consider it that big of a deal, but I would think that someone who supposedly knows so much about the sport would remember who played for the NC last year (ASU and Texas A&M).

He made a mistake, which isn't a shocker considering it's Graham Hays. Contrary to some in this thread, he doesn't walk on water and he isn't the end-all, be-all. In fact, I personally don't hold his opinion in high regard at all. I mean, he's okay at times, but he's rather biased in his articles at times, and I'm not just talking about softball as he commonly writes for another sport that I closely follow in women's basketball. Again, he works for ESPN so the fact that he shows blatant bias in his work isn't surprising at all.

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcrazy89

Contrary to some in this thread, he doesn't walk on water...

I mean, he's okay at times, but he's rather biased in his articles at times, and I'm not just talking about softball as he commonly writes for another sport that I closely follow in women's basketball.


He'd be a hit over at swimming.   That said, I'd wager Mr. Hays knows who played in the Championship games of the WCWS.  But you are more than entitled to your opinion.


volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
He'd be a hit over at swimming.  That said, I'd wager Mr. Hays knows who played in the Championship games of the WCWS.  But you are more than entitled to your opinion.


Maybe he just needs to better proof his work.
GR_Eagle

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Reply with quote  #100 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcrazy89

Contrary to some in this thread, he doesn't walk on water...

I mean, he's okay at times, but he's rather biased in his articles at times, and I'm not just talking about softball as he commonly writes for another sport that I closely follow in women's basketball.


He'd be a hit over at swimming.   That said, I'd wager Mr. Hays knows who played in the Championship games of the WCWS.  But you are more than entitled to your opinion.




He could have written what you say "he knows" then.  Just saying.....
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #101 

Stanford's Hansen holds true to hype

wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #102 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcrazy89


Hmm... I wasn't aware that Bama lost to ASU in the national championship series. I thought all this time that was Texas A&M.

Seriously. Graham Hays isn't very good. But then again, his employer is ESPN where mediocrity is the rule rather than the exception.
Good grief.  If you judge the man based on that one mistake, I'd shudder to think what your judgment of me would be.
volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #103 
Good grief is right. I've already said that mistakes like this are common with him. I'm not judging him on "one mistake". His work is riddled with mistakes (such as this, which should be a pretty easy one to not make and/or catch if he has proofed his work correctly) -- it's not as if mistakes rare with him -- not to mention they tend to be dripping with bias.

I frequently leave his articles -- regardless of the sport for which he's writing -- rolling my eyes and asking "WTH?"

Again, considering his employer I'm not surprised at the mistakes or the bias.

You related to him or something?



wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #104 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcrazy89
Good grief is right. I've already said that mistakes like this are common with him. I'm not judging him on "one mistake". His work is riddled with mistakes (such as this, which should be a pretty easy one to not make and/or catch if he has proofed his work correctly) -- it's not as if mistakes rare with him -- not to mention they tend to be dripping with bias.

I frequently leave his articles -- regardless of the sport for which he's writing -- rolling my eyes and asking "WTH?"

Again, considering his employer I'm not surprised at the mistakes or the bias.

You related to him or something?



No, I'm not.  (By the way, veiled shots like that do nothing to help your argument.)  However, I'm willing to bet you've never been in his shoes as a journalist... I have.

Are you going to offer some examples of bias, or just keep throwing it out there to see if it will stick?  So far you've suggested he's full of bias and makes many errors, yet I've seen one example of a small error, and nothing else.
volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #105 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvuasports
No, I'm not.  (By the way, veiled shots like that do nothing to help your argument.)


I'm just wondering why you're so quick to defend someone who does marginal work at best. You act like you know him personally, or something.

Quote:
However, I'm willing to bet you've never been in his shoes as a journalist... I have.


So IOW, you're quick to jump to his defense because you've been a journalist, too?

I'm not going to bow down and kiss his feet simply because I've never done his work. There are plenty of people who didn't/don't do my work, yet I don't expect that to exempt me from their criticism.

Quote:
Are you going to offer some examples of bias, or just keep throwing it out there to see if it will stick.


For one, -- speaking of "veiled shots" -- he's went out of his way to slight two of the best women's athletes in the history of UT: Monica Abbott and Candace Parker (mainly the latter, but then again, who hasn't slighted her?)

Hays is basically known as a joke on all of the message boards I frequent (which would all be basketball sans this one). Nobody takes him seriously, and his articles, in addition to little mistakes like this and said bias, quite often make it look like he hasn't done his homework; they're uninformed, so this "knowledge" argument regarding him doesn't totally hold up. Let's keep in mind that he doesn't just write about softball, shall we?

Honestly, I'm not going to go find any specific articles of his for you. 1.) I don't feel like it, 2.) Arguing with you won't change that, 3.) Mr. Hays isn't worth the time it takes to find them, 4.) Many of his articles are quite old therefore finding some of the ones I'm thinking of would take quite a while if they're even still archived, 5.) I know what I've read from him, and I honestly don't care if you agree or not.


wvuasports

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Reply with quote  #106 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcrazy89


I'm just wondering why you're so quick to defend someone who does marginal work at best. You act like you know him personally, or something.
I do know him personally, but that's beside the point.  You trying to make that part of the argument is dishonest at best.

Quote:

So IOW, you're quick to jump to his defense because you've been a journalist, too?

I'm not going to bow down and kiss his feet simply because I've never done his work. There are plenty of people who didn't/don't do my work, yet I don't expect that to exempt me from their criticism.
Not what I meant.  What I mean to say is I find it common that people who haven't worked as a journalist don't know how easy it is to make a simple mistake. (Like saying Championship Series instead of just WCWS.)

Quote:


For one, -- speaking of "veiled shots" -- he's went out of his way to slight two of the best women's athletes in the history of UT: Monica Abbott and Candace Parker (mainly the latter, but then again, who hasn't slighted her?)
Link?

Quote:
Hays is basically known as a joke on all of the message boards I frequent (which would all be basketball sans this one). Nobody takes him seriously, and his articles, in addition to little mistakes like this and said bias, quite often make it look like he hasn't done his homework; they're uninformed, so this "knowledge" argument regarding him doesn't totally hold up. Let's keep in mind that he doesn't just write about softball, shall we?
Appeal to popularity doesn't work.  Do you know how shallow an argument you just formulated there?  "Nobody takes him seriously!!! So you shouldn't!"  Comeon.

Quote:
Honestly, I'm not going to go find any specific articles of his for you. 1.) I don't feel like it, 2.) Arguing with you won't change that, 3.) Mr. Hays isn't worth the time it takes to find them, 4.) Many of his articles are quite old therefore finding some of the ones I'm thinking of would take quite a while if they're even still archived,
So, in other words, you're just going to trash him without specifically showing us the problems you have with him.  Sounds fair.

 
Quote:
5.) I know what I've read from him, and I honestly don't care if you agree or not.
If you don't care what I think, you wouldn't be responding.


indyrun

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Reply with quote  #107 
volcrazy89 - just a causal observer of this particular thread, but do have one comment. 

If this guy is so distasteful to you, WHY do you continue to read his stuff.  If I had such a lack of respect for any writer, I would certainly avoid reading "them" (personal example: one particular political writer had same impact on me, and I no longer pay any attention to anything she writes, or says).

Just an observation... 
TideKid

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Reply with quote  #108 
indyrun---valid point! i heard on the radio the other day, they were doing a call in from people who "have decided to stop listening...for what reasons and why did they come back".....they then went to point out that the lines lit up meant that people actually came back to listen to their program.....but it wasn't all of them....which clearly means that some people kept to their resolve and let bygones be bygones.

you must keep frequenting espn.com, volcrazy, if he keeps getting under your skin.

i go there everyday because do i know what's going on in the Big West, Big 10, etc in terms of the softball world? not so much, and thankfully someone in the media cares enough to make it his occupation.


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we LOVE free bases
noone

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Reply with quote  #109 
I just wonder why some of you feel so threatened when someone criticizes this guy?  I happen to agree with Volcrazy and apparently so do some others.  So what?  Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, even those of us that disagree with you self-appointed posting police (you all know who you are). 

No matter the thread or subject, some of you don't just have a difference of opinion, but think you have the right to tell the rest of us what we can and can not discuss.  You insist that we delete our posts or accuse us of being improper and inappropriate in our criticism and suggest we stop all such "attacks" as you would refer to them. And, when you don't get your way voluntarily, you whine to the moderator to take the whole thread down. 

So, I suggest the same to you that you suggested to Volcrazy, if you don't like the criticisms, don't read them.

This is still (for a short while longer) a free country where we all are entitled to speak our mind.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #110 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
That said, I'd wager Mr. Hays knows who played in the Championship games of the WCWS.  But you are more than entitled to your opinion.

I suspect noone's post may be aimed at me so I re posted my previous comment above.  More importantly, if you think someone posted a controversial and subjective criticism, (see post 107 by volcrazy89 that says, "Seriously. Graham Hays isn't very good. But then again, his employer is ESPN where mediocrity is the rule rather than the exception"), without expecting both considerable and contrary opinions, I'd call that naive.  And I don't feel threatened at all.

volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #111 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiseBall07
Translation:
  I have no substantiation of my claims but I am not going to admit to it.   


No, the correction translation would be: I don't need someone's approval for my opinion to have validation.

People can agree with what I say or not. It's that simple. Either way, I won't be losing or gaining any sleep.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can handle it if someone disagrees with me. It's no biggie. To some, it may not be, however. This was started because the Hays worshippers didn't like it that someone had the audacity to dare criticize him. If some like him, that's fine. If some think he's the most knowledgable person in the world and the best thing since sliced bread, well hell, that's fine, too. Just don't attack me because I don't share your opinion.

And Dewey, FWIW I thought your post was fine and had no problem with it.
noone

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Reply with quote  #112 
PD

You absolutely have the right to post your opinion whether it agrees with mine or not.  What you don't have the right to do is to surreptitiously have posts or threads that you don't agree with removed.  That's censorship and thats what you and some of your deputy's have done.

The Oklahoma thread is a case in point.  You didn't like what was said about a player you knew.  What gives you the right to have that thread taken down?  Just because you and your kool-ade drinking followers didn't like it doesn't mean it is not worthy of discussion.  What if I didn't like any thread that talked about the accomplishments of your daughter.  Do I have the right to have that taken down just because I don't like it?  You all don't have the right to judge and censor any discussion.  If you don't like it, don't read it or don't respond to it, but you can not censor it!
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #113 

noone - We've gone round and round and round on this subject in the past.  If I started a thread that said I heard Coach X had sex with Player Z, it's both anonymous and unsubstantiated.  The thread will come down and should come down.  That's not censorship, that's responsibility.  Try getting whatever you want written into your local newspaper.  Without meeting certain standards, it will not happen.

 

noone

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Reply with quote  #114 
Talk about picking a fight.  I never said I didn't like the accomplishments of your daughter, I said "What if...", as in using that as an extreme example.  Way to twist things!

We'll never agree on this because you have a standard which is whatever you believe is appropriate, is appropriate and what you believe is not, is not.  That leaves no room for others point-of-view. 

As far a gossip being hurtful, well if you keep your nose clean, as they say, I guess you won't have to worry about being the subject of gossip or news or whatever you want to call it.  If you play with fire, you're going to get burnt, so be it.  These same issues are discussed in college football and basketball all the time on forums, in the newspapers and on tv.  I guess you believe because they are girls, softball players, teams and coaches need to be protected from the big bad world.

Oh, and I guess we also now have to worry about hurting the feelings of the media, ie Graham Hays.

I say again, you're entitled to your opinion, but so am I.  Stop trying to stifle those you disagree with.


volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #115 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvuasports
I do know him personally, but that's beside the point.  You trying to make that part of the argument is dishonest at best.


I don't understand HTH it's "dishonest" especially if it's true ...

What's more is that I don't understand why you're so bent out of shape because somebody doesn't share your precious view of him.

I'm sure he's a great guy. That doesn't make him a great journalist. I like Phillip Fulmer very much as a person. Very nice and very generous. But not a great coach, and I wanted him gone.

Quote:
Link?


I'm not taking the time to look up a link and find an article through the sea that is ESPN.com. I remember some articles re softball from the 2007 season that I didn't found less-than-professional. If you think I'm going back two years in archives to find them, then you have way too high of an opinion of yourself.

If you want it, you can find it yourself. I'm sure that if I find one you'll just make a up an excuse as to why he wrote what he wrote, anyway.

Don't believe me? Yeah, I don't particularly care. You can take it or leave it.

Quote:
Appeal to popularity doesn't work.  Do you know how shallow an argument you just formulated there?  "Nobody takes him seriously!!! So you shouldn't!"  Comeon.


That wasn't what I was trying to say. You can nominate him for the next POTUS for all I care. By all means, continue to love him; I'm not trying to change your opinion of him. The point is that I'm not the only one who shares the opinion that he's simply not that great.

Quote:
So, in other words, you're just going to trash him without specifically showing us the problems you have with him.  Sounds fair.


Again, you can take it or leave it. I'm not going to bend over backwards to try to get my opinion approved by you.


noone

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Reply with quote  #116 
Volcrazy

Just give up.  You'll never win.  They'll never back down.  They are King.  They are never wrong.
volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #117 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyrun
If this guy is so distasteful to you, WHY do you continue to read his stuff.  If I had such a lack of respect for any writer, I would certainly avoid reading "them" (personal example: one particular political writer had same impact on me, and I no longer pay any attention to anything she writes, or says).


I don't mean to sound like I absolutely hate the guy -- I don't -- and everything he writes is entirely rubbish -- it isn't. As I said before, he's okay at times. However, it's not like he's some guy with impeccable knowledge who's the best writer in the whole, wide world like some people are acting.

And anything I've read of his, the stuff is brought to my attention (i.e. this thread). I don't go looking for a particular writer's articles on ESPN.com. 

Some of the stuff has been pretty good knowledge, which is why I read his stuff when it's brought to my attention. Some of the stuff is okay/average. Some of the stuff isn't very good and can make him look like he's a beginner as a writer -- like much of the write-ups of the teams that are filled with mistakes and irrelevent topics (like certain teams' write-ups almost exclusively being about other  teams).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TideKid
you must keep frequenting espn.com, volcrazy, if he keeps getting under your skin.


I never once said he "got under my skin." FWIW, one thing that gets under my skin is someone telling me telling me how I feel, or people trying to disparge my opinion with their arrogance because they don't agree with what I've said. Both scenarios have taken place in this thread.

I mean, Heaven forbid someone say they don't think Graham Hays is a very good writer. I suppose if softball were a more popular sport there would be someone to which a comparison could be made. Instead, he's basically the only person who cares enough to write about the sport, so I guess some people want to worship him for that.
Fastpitch101

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Reply with quote  #118 
Quote:
I say again, you're entitled to your opinion, but so am I.  Stop trying to stifle those you disagree with. Stop trying to force your negative views on the rest of us. Stop using multiple sign ons to find support for your views.


Multiple Sign Ons?????
noone

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Reply with quote  #119 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudDad
Quote:
Originally Posted by noone
Talk about picking a fight.  I never said I didn't like the accomplishments of your daughter, I said "What if...", as in using that as an extreme example.  Way to twist things! Oh but that was your subtle way of bringing my daughter into it now wasn't it? No, That was not my intention.  It was just the first most absurd example of excessive censorship I could come up with.  But since you know all........

We'll never agree on this because you have a standard which is whatever you believe is appropriate, is appropriate and what you believe is not, is not.  That leaves no room for others point-of-view.  I have always been open to others points of view. I have had opinions changed on numerous occasions because of a well thought out rebuttle. On the subject of hurting young adults and that in turn hurting their parents I will not waiver. I choose not to. I'm not trying to change your opinion.  I'm trying to get you and your minions to allow me mine.

As far a gossip being hurtful, well if you keep your nose clean, as they say, I guess you won't have to worry about being the subject of gossip or news or whatever you want to call it.  If you play with fire, you're going to get burnt, so be it. Then name yourself and take it like you dish it out. Irrevelant These same issues are discussed in college football and basketball all the time on forums, in the newspapers and on tv. So your argument is if others do it we should to? No, my argument is that these discussions are a normal part of sports.  You want softball to be big time but you don't want all that comes with it.  What bank heist are we pulling tommorrow Dillinger? I guess you believe because they are girls, softball players, teams and coaches need to be protected from the big bad world. You talk of twisting words. Brother. Do you really enjoy talking about something that could hurt other people? Are you that miserable?  No, I want to be able to discuss everything, good, bad and othewise that pertaines to softball, just like you would if you were discussing college football.

Oh, and I guess we also now have to worry about hurting the feelings of the media, ie Graham Hays. No. I don't worry about that because I actually like him. I don't and I have the right to say so without being chastised and accused of being responsible if he never writes about softball again because his feelings are hurt.

I say again, you're entitled to your opinion, but so am I.  Stop trying to stifle those you disagree with. Stop trying to force your negative views on the rest of us. Stop using multiple sign ons to find support for your views.   Stop trying to force your pollyana views on me.  I don't need support for my views, I'm entitled to them.


volcrazy89

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Reply with quote  #120 
Okay, people. To your freakin' corners.
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