Ultimate College Softball
Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 6      Prev   1   2   3   4   5   Next   »
GrizzlyFan

Registered:
Posts: 2,053
Reply with quote  #31 
Joisey, I get that taxes are necessary and that some government programs are necessary. The problem is that too many in government have figured out that by creating another government program for another group, they can secure the majority of votes from that particular group. Therefore there is no end to the amount of government programs that we can create. All at the expense of the taxpayer. Oh and by the way, in order to keep the majority of tax payers from revolting, they exempt half of the nation from paying federal income taxes. Now all the government has to do if they want more money to fund more programs to secure more votes, is simply tell the 50% that doesn't pay federal taxes that the other 50% are too rich and need to pay more. And guess what, the 50% that doesn't pay will usually agree to raise taxes.
Where does it end? When we reach a total Marxist state will you be happy?

__________________
If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 23,780
Reply with quote  #32 
 Dewey on another note, since you brought it up.  I do realize you have your plate full trying to get your president reelected.  He carried your state last time and will have to do it again to have any chance at winning in 2012.  You need to be out volunteering at the local Reelect the O Man campaign headquarters.  Doing your campaigning on the UCS will hardly be worthwhile or time well spent.  This is a crowd that is far from the "undecided" votes you will need to get your gimp reelected.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #33 
keepinitreal - There are some folks who think Government should run military and absolutely nothing else.  I have no desire to challenge those extreme views.  As for the right to give birth, that too can be debated with another Conservative here as I'm not interested.

In this thread, I came in to tell others why I'm so happy a Democrat is in office following the upholding of the Health Care Act.  It's been awhile since I started a thread, and the numerous "Obama or Democrats are bad" type threads called out for me to chime in once again with a more positive look on this President.  Sorry you can't handle alternative views without the frustration but my offering these different perspectives have nothing to do with my moderating privileges.  I started this practice years before when folks found a need to take down the Democrat perspective and this President in particular.

You sound like you're against what either Party has done through the years and think they're both way off the path.  Fine, sounds something like the Ron Paul crowd and I simply choose to allow those folks to go their own way.  I'm not going Duran on you, (have you missed how many Conservatives I exchange with daily), but I simply think some of these Libertarian views are adopted by so few that a response is a waste of my time.  Kind of like taking someone on who wants their State to secede.  I wouldn't bother.  If you want to support something Romney's going to do and Obama won't, and are interested in my opinion, then we can have an exchange.  

Finally, to answer two other statements you made..."I don't see this Country the way "you" want me to see it."  Big difference.  And secondly, imagine if I told you, "you just won't admit that things are pretty great for this Country as a whole".  Would you find it odd that I would tell you what you should admit?  That's precisely what you did to me.  Mighty presumptuous of you.

Anyway, I'll take some time off before I choose to start a new positive thread again.  This way, you can read all the bashing Obama threads and feel better again.  It seems it must be very difficult to hear from those who note things are way better than you want people to believe they are.   
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
 Dewey, doing your campaigning on the UCS will hardly be worthwhile or time well spent.  This is a crowd that is far from the "undecided" votes you will need to get your gimp reelected.


keepinitreal - Note at the bottom of the page we generally have eight times the visitors as members on site.  They read, they decide, and maybe they carry on the message.  But you're probably right the impact is surely extremely small.  However, it is cathartic for me.  What's your excuse for venting?  So you can say gimp? ;-)
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 23,780
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
What's your excuse for venting?  So you can say gimp? ;-)




I already explained that answer here

"My purpose here on this thread is to rebut your 1%er view"


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
You won't admit government is too big and therefore you want to try and play the "kook" card on me? 


You won't admit this Administration has achieved many great results.  So we're at an impasse and now you want to play the "Duran" card on me.  You don't like Obama, I do.  That's it, nothing to debate. 

keepinitreal says, "My purpose here on this thread is to rebut your 1%er view." 

Well, I simply can't allow the 99% Obama bashing threads to go unanswered.  I hope you understand.
JoiseyGuy

Registered:
Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #37 
Grizzly - Your question is extreme, and that is exactly why I rarely comment on this thread.  I hear demonizing, name calling, and questions like yours about Marxism.  Of course I don't want a Marxist state, and Marx never wrote about a state, only about economics.  I hear on here too many voices who are so far right and generalized  that they think that one inkling of what is moderate thinking is far left ("you libs think this or that"), and I guess from their frame of reference it is.  What is left of Sean Hannity is "far left"?    Hardly.  Marxist?  Hardly.  Interested in some ideas that Marx (and many others) proposed - absolutely.  McCarthyism is not dead by any means.  Ever read Arthur Miller's "The Crucible"?  Frank
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
GrizzlyFan

Registered:
Posts: 2,053
Reply with quote  #38 
Honestly Joisey when I grab a book and try to read, I am asleep in a matter of minutes. Not sure if that is a reflection of age or attention span.
My point about a Marxist state was meant to be extreme because that is as far as you can go to the left. My question was, how far do democrats want to go? If you have free market capitalism on one end and marxism on the other, where do you want to be? Democrats keep trying to move closer to Marxism and I want to know where they will be happy?

__________________
If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #39 
This Democrat is for free markets that reward those who take risks, fair markets, (yes that means some rules and regulations), progressive taxation or what some try to negatively describe as pooling money, and for all capable to contribute funds towards old age and healthcare so they don't become a burden on society when they get sick or retire.  For the unfortunate who cannot afford food or care, I'm for a safety net.  For me, it's not all that complex.

Now for those who still wish to paint a very negative picture of this Country, please tell me what is wrong with these results...

Citizens can no longer be denied or removed from insurance due to illness.

Citizens cannot have their insurance limited, and assets depleted, in the event they become seriously ill.

Stock market has made a significant recovery from four years ago.

Soldiers are gradually returning home and top al-Qaeda leaders have been eliminated.

President Obama has kept us safe for four years.

If you can find any middle class tax increases in the last 18 years, they're negligible and affect very few.


Why can't a Democrat look at each of these results and see a huge positive in each one without being mocked as having rose colored glasses?  Just tell me why.  Some of you will jump to another subject and point out our increased debt.  I've repeated numerous times that if Romney is elected, he will see a significant increase in debt during his first term and I know folks will say, Dewey, it takes time to grow your way out of a near depression.  You will not hold the Republican responsible and you will be right, just like Obama is experiencing the same long term revenue effects of a world wide economic crisis.
   
bluedog

Registered:
Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #40 
The stock market is teetering and will cave-in,  it's just a matter of when.......Europe and China's economies are falling.....Unemployment in Europe is unthinkable...In America, unemployment is real bad and getting worse....Any economic bright spots?....Nah!
GrizzlyFan

Registered:
Posts: 2,053
Reply with quote  #41 
Dewey, Obamacare is the largest tax increase in history and will be paid for by the middle class and the poor. When everyone is forced to purchase health insurance, who is it that is uninsured? Is it the rich? Nope! It is the middle class and the poor. According the the Supreme Court, this is a tax. Therefore you are wrong to say it is negligible and that it effects very few.
__________________
If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #42 
Grizzly - My understanding is very few will ever pay the tax.  This is why I used the term "few".  By the way, did you find any of my half dozen examples to be something I should be unhappy about as a Democrat?
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 23,780
Reply with quote  #43 
Dewey is your desire to see this president succeed so much that you completely ignore your states dire circumstances?  Are you truly that happy? 



Quote:
California’s weakness is the result of California’s choices. It has chosen to be anti-oil and anti-gas, and to unilaterally implement the nation’s most restrictive environmental regulations. California has elected to impose the nation’s most restrictive regulatory regime on all businesses and an onerous tax system. In short, California has chosen to be anti-opportunity and to have a weak economy. The denialists have chosen not to see California’s decline.


http://www.newgeography.com/content/002902-no-its-deniers-who-are-wrong

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 23,780
Reply with quote  #44 
Gallup says anyone happy with today's presidential approval, congressional approval or happy with the state of the economy is one of a very small minority for congress and still in the minority for your prez.  It is fine to see the glass half full as long as you are looking at the glass without the blinders or rose colored glasses.

16% approval for congress WOW to the WOW.

45% for your president's approval rating, 48% disapprove.

Numbers are from gallup.com July numbers

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 23,780
Reply with quote  #45 
It seems a little selfish or self gratifying to say things are so great and wonderful in this country when so many are suffering.  A staggering 32% of young Americans are underemployed but I bet many of these are used in the same numbers proudly proclaimed 800,000 (then adjusted downward to 675,000) gained jobs in the first quarter.

Quote:
Today's slow economic growth is a disaster for those unemployed and underemployed as they look for jobs when so few new jobs are being created. For younger Americans as a group, this is a particularly acute issue. Nearly one in three young adults in the workforce are not now able to gain full-time job experience. This not only hurts them temporarily, but deprives them of the experience they need to get a better job in the future. It also deprives U.S. companies of the skilled and experienced workers they will need for their businesses to prosper in the years ahead.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/154553/One-Three-Young-Underemployed.aspx

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
CoachB25

Registered:
Posts: 2,234
Reply with quote  #46 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Grizzly - My understanding is very few will ever pay the tax.  This is why I used the term "few".  By the way, did you find any of my half dozen examples to be something I should be unhappy about as a Democrat?


I was listening to Governors speak about setting up their systems for Medicaid.  It seems that the Federal Government is going to fund this for 3 years and then the states will be responsible for paying for medicaid.  I wonder how states are going to fund Medicaid as do most of the Governors who were interviewed.  That is why the SCOTUS said that this portion of the Affordable Health Care Bill is unconstitutional.  It places an undue burden on the states.  One Governor spoke in clarity.  He said governors would be stupid to turn down the federal dollars for those three years BUT that taxes will have to be raised in each state to pay for Medicaid. 

So, only a few people will ever have to pay a tax?  The irony of all of this is that those that passed Obamacare will all be able to say that they didn't raise this tax.  ...or is it a penalty?

Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #47 
keepinitreal - Are you encouraging me to say something supportive of this President so you can take another shot at me for not being negative enough, or for seemingly finding a never-ending need to come out here and say something positive about this Administration?  I'm surprised you, of all people, are the one inviting me out again.  Oh well, here goes.

I want to see this Country succeed and I do believe we have the right President to keep moving us in the right direction.  You have never heard me say that things are "so great".  Those are your words.  I'm happy that fewer citizens will suffer now from being uninsured and unable to afford preventive care.  I'm happy people can't be denied insurance and I'm happy a serious illness won't take all your assets due to insurance running out.  Is out alright to be happy about those things?

You know in 2008, we were losing jobs every month as Bush left office for a total of 2.6 million jobs lost in the last year.  The last month Bush was in office, it was up to 3/4 million jobs lost in one month which translates to 9 million jobs annually.  This new President jumped in the driver's seat, continued TARP, put some of his own policies into place, and reduced this monthly loss almost every month until he stopped it altogether and reversed direction into jobs gained almost every month since.  We did lose 3.5 million jobs in the ten months it took Obama to stop the crash but have since gained them all back, (not sure why folks want to hold Obama responsible for the first ten months the economy continued to crash while he added steps to halt the free-fall), and I'm very happy Obama showed up.  

I've reread my first post and nowhere did I say I'm happy with the state of the economy.  I repeat, you used the terms "so great", not me.  What you are trying to do, (similar to what LMUFan did earlier), is akin to someone saying they were happy with the job President Bush did while in office only to have someone ask, "were you also happy with all the soldiers who died in Iraq?"  Very unfair to conclude one sentiment from another.

Now please, I laid out several specific examples of what I'm happy about and asked which ones would Conservative members here think I shouldn't be happy about.  Like everyone else, you failed to select one to present to me.  I'm not surprised.  By the way, I think I'm in the majority when it comes to people who like President Obama.  You can try to convince me it's wrong to be happy should Obama get re-elected but the case you're making that if everything is not perfect, one can't be happy with the job a President is doing and the progress he is making, just doesn't make any sense to me.

CoachB25 - Actually, after three years States pay 5% of Medicaid cost and after six years, they pay 10%.  What's the Republican solution to insure a family of four earning $17,000 annually?  No insurance?  No preventive care because they are poor?
bluedog

Registered:
Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #48 
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #49 
The worst thing that could happen in this Country, imo, is to return anywhere close to the governing that took place during the eight years of the last Republican Administration.  I cannot blame bluedog and others for trying to persuade everyone to try and forget those years.  Wars, debt, job losses, water-boarding, Cheney, tax cuts, discarding immigration reform, and other policies did so much to move this Country backwards that, from my perspective, constant reminders are critical to avoid a repeat.  Conservatives ask you to learn from Greece and Marx, as if they have any relevancy to our Country at all, while begging you to ignore Bush years or Massachusetts health care, which are critical and historical models to help with our learning experience.  Go figure.
JoiseyGuy

Registered:
Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #50 
Bluedog - You are downright silly with the Reagan post. How can a bible thumper like yourself who purports to be a Christian hate so much?  Then again, if you absolutely know everything that is good and evil, I can see how you would want to point out the evil.  Must be great to be omniscient. Does it feel a lot like papal infallibility?  
Frank 

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
CoachB25

Registered:
Posts: 2,234
Reply with quote  #51 
Dewey, according to two Representatives I saw speak this morning, the states will be responsible for a minimum of 10% of the payment to medicaid after a ten year period.  That amounts to billions according to them and naturally, it depends upon the population of each state.  Having said that,  currently,  the" Federal Medical Assistance Percentages" and the number of "Medicaid Disproportionate Share Hospitals"  varies by state income and generally falls between 50% and 76% of Medicaid costs.  This payment is on a percentage that the government pays on actually cost and will be cutback.  In other words, they tell the doctor or hospital what they are going to get.  One Representative suggested that there is no evidence that the states won't be eligible to pay the difference here when doctors/hospitals refuse to accept those payments.  Also, keep in mind that "10%" is going to vastly increase because state are going to be restricted is screening who gets in to the program.  By the way, the projection is that 40% of the nation's doctors will refuse to accept any of these patients.  That number is to be considered "conservative" from what I have read. 

Dewey, your point was that few would have to pay and so now I've outlined that all of us will have to pay because our states will be responsible for payments up to 10% of a figure that no one can accurately estimate.  I've also pointed out that this can only be accomplished through taxes.  You want to now change the point and ask about the poor family.  On point your point about paying was inaccurate.

Edited to add:

Dewey, I just read that the states are responsible for paying 100% for some individuals that sign up.  In fact, your state will be responsible for $1 billion.  Other states that will see the $1 bilion 100% responsibility California as state, Florida and North Dakota to name three.  By 2023, Texas will be responsible for paying 27 Billion dollars!!!
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #52 
CoachB25 - You made an end-around to change my comment that few will be charged a tax directly collected because of the new HCA to say at some point, folks will pay for the additional citizens that become eligible for Medicaid in the years when States will be asked to pay for a share.  I respectfully suggest you weaved my reply to Grizzly into what you believe is a projection of what we may all be asked to pay as a result of these new changes.  Quite a prediction but let's further analyze your scenario.

In three to six years, States will be asked to pay a little something towards Medicaid to cover the extra 17 million who sign up.  True.  That said, I ask you what these 17 million will cost us by not being added to Medicaid?  Will they be sicker thus requiring more emergency room care?  Maybe we're saving money in the long run and we'll be paying less taxes.  How can you know for sure?  As you know, this is one of the primary reasons Obama pushed for this bill.  This Country needs to reduce the levels of expenditures going to health-care annually and there is no way we can get our debt decreased until we address this problem.  You say he'll increase costs.  I say he won't.  You say tomato, I say tamotto.  You're searching for a theme to say taxpayers will pay more.  Predict all you wish but I simply said few will choose not to buy health insurance, as required under this bill, thus few will be paying the penalty/tax under the law.  I stand by that comment.
bluedog

Registered:
Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #53 
" I cannot blame bluedog and others for trying to persuade everyone to try and forget those years."

Reagan made us forget the Carter years because he solved the nation's problems....Obama cannot make us forget the Bush years because he has only added to our nation's problems........Obama has solved nothing....He's on the wrong path...
CoachB25

Registered:
Posts: 2,234
Reply with quote  #54 
Dewey, I did my best to get numbers from non partisan sites although I didn't mark the urls since it took so long to look it up.  I did not make up the prediction that Texas is going to be responsible for paying 27 billion dollars a year.  That is a substantial amount.  BTW, how is the Federal Government going to pay for states that do not set up exchanges?  The Federal Government's rules are different if they have to set up the exchange and I understand that they will have to take everyone although I don't know this to be true.  Who will pay for that?

Dewey, I did not find the source I looked at before but here is a site that has almost the exact same numbers:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/11/obamacares-medicaid-expansion-and-the-my 

Read what Matt Salo has to say.  I do not know the source of this site and so, I am admitting that.  Also, notice that this site adds in Indiana as a state that will have to pay over a billion dollars for medicaid.

bluedog

Registered:
Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #55 
Joisey, good to hear from ya....I have been noticing you are quick to ridicule the Bible.....Somewhere in your life you must have been subjected to false teaching in a religious setting......You aren't the only casualty of religious leaders who are wolves in sheep's clothing....I was never as bad as you, but, I realized something was amiss in the message I was hearing in church buildings...Then, I read the Bible...And, I recommend you do the same....You are hung up on good and evil....Those are works.....Doing good works for the sake of doing 'em isn't the Creator's plan for our life...There is more to it than that.... 
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #56 
CoachB - An HHS representative from Texas has reduced your estimates.  Read here.  In any event, Texas has the most uninsured so maybe over time, their costs will increase.  I don't really know.  You're getting very deep into the results of this law, much deeper than I can understand, and I'm uncertain as to what the central point is you are trying to make.
bluedog

Registered:
Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #57 
Blaming Bush needs to stop.....That's an excuse for not having any solutions....
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #58 
bluedog - Could these possibly be examples of false teachings or are these absolute facts?

Obama has solved nothing
The collapse of the stock market is coming
Christian denominations have always ignored the Bible
Our identity is evident when we are born
Any economic bright spots?....Nah!
The only thing returning is a recession
There is alot of failure fixing to run it's course
The bailouts were a big failure and never had a chance of working
Homophobic is just another word used to denigrate people who believe in the Creator's plan for our life and who wish to follow His plan for us.
This country cannot afford national health-care
Things have gotten progressively worse since Obama's been in office
Our president is judge, jury and executioner
States are gonna ignore the courts and the White House....It's coming
The Supreme Court is gonna strike down Obamacare
We have let a man come into our presidency who isn't loyal to America

They are all quotes from you.
bluedog

Registered:
Posts: 10,012
Reply with quote  #59 
Reading anything other than your worship of Obama and socialism is a relief.....Especially, when you blame Bush....And, that's all the time!  
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal

It seems a little selfish or self gratifying to say things are so great and wonderful in this country when so many are suffering. 


keepinitreal - Your three posts encouraging me to come out in support of this President once again, for reasons unbeknownst to me, were responded to back in post #50.  It has since been covered up by subsequent posts.  I pointed out the inaccuracy of your quote above, with regards to actual terms I used, and went on to explain how such a conclusion that one's happiness over a Presidents administration somehow means they're happy about everything not yet addressed.  Your quote couldn't have characterized me any more inaccurately.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.