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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #61 
And that has nothing to do with wearing a mask or not
Softball_rules5

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad

Gold is 18 and under, no? That's why I said, with some exceptions, since a player could technically be playing 18u and be 19.


ASA Rule 5 Section E - all helmets will be fitted with a NOCSAE approved fitted face mask (paraphrasing) - not being a her but gold falls under JO, so if a 19 y/o is playing they are required to wear a mask
UGASBFan

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Reply with quote  #63 
Chelsea Wilkinson made it to OKC wearing a mask her senior year. Now I'm not saying it helped her but it damn sure didn't hurt her, either. Not like some would suggest.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Just cause you disagree does not make something old school.

Already addressed the Barnhill, Wilkenson.  If you can prove you can get inside you will be fine.  

And yes, watched Wilkonson in a game.  In that game a lot of people crowded the plate on her.  In that game she was not getting the outside corner calls, though it seemed she was hitting it.  That game did not go well for her.  

Pretend that it is not a part of the game all you want, if that serves your purpose.  People are free to listen to you or listen to me. 

On hitters wearing masks, I was just agreeing with spazsdad.  My incidental evidence was that more hitters fouled balls off up into their face, or mask if they were wearing one by about 10-1 over seeing balls hit back at pitchers.  But that is just me.


uw, there's no context in typing. My intent wasn't to jump down your throat..apologies. And I don't completely disagree. I think kids are crazy not to wear them. I'm as old school as anybody about alot of things. I had never ever heard your take on the mask thing/hitters etc...Still think it's a little loopy but this is an opinion forum. And your posts are at least objective. Good debate.
teladog

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Reply with quote  #65 
Oklahoma's pitcher (her name escapes me, she pitched yesterday, transfer from Mizzou, you know who I'm talking about)  the announcers said she throws 75 (true or not?) she was wearing a mask.

My DD was playing 1st and took a ground ball to the face (she was 9, don't judge) and after that was scared of the ball.  That was the original reason for the mask, but then she started pitching and was so used to wearing it, she felt weird without it.  She has had a few wiz by her head, but never hit her thankfully.  The "coach won't recruit" is garbage, almost every team has a player that wears one now, it's no big deal anymore.

Pitchers, at the very least, should have a mouth guard in.

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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #66 

Paige Lowary throws 68-70

This is the reason she wears a mask

http://www.flosoftball.com/article/39966-paige-lowary-line-drive-to-the-face#.WOYyBbjavIU

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/sec/university-of-missouri/article78952697.html

teladog

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Reply with quote  #67 
I figured they were overstating her speed.  Now that I see that, I remember it happening. Yikes.

Gosh after watching that, I have tears in my eyes.  She never had a chance to catch that, she never even knew it was coming.

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Stretch

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Reply with quote  #68 
Missed her spot ? In slow mo that pitch was right down the heart of the plate. Down the middle / up the middle.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #69 

Even major leaguers making EIGHT figures a year 'miss their spots'

 

teladog

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Reply with quote  #70 
Every single pitcher on this planet misses their spot on occasion.  I would say at least once every single game.
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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #71 
More often than that

But, Preston Wilson said something that sticks with me.... He said pitchers worry wayyy to much about making the perfect pitch and painting, and forget how patently difficult it is to hit a thrown ball
Stretch

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Reply with quote  #72 
I was not implying that pitchers don't miss spots. They all make mistakes. But should mask wearing become a rule based on a mistake? How many pitches are thrown / balls are hit that are not "come-backers" vs. the ones that are?
teladog

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Reply with quote  #73 
All it takes is that one.
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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #74 

Wearing a seatbelt is based on making a mistake.

In crass terms, if ESPN had an easily preventable fatality happen during the WCWS, it would reduce viewership and interest

Seems like not a huge ask to potentially protect the bottom line... It's just a couple bars of steel, not like we are voting for homecoming queen in the circle.

The mask will be required once a pitcher gets killed in a high-viewership setting -- and with kids getting stronger (pitching and hitting), it IS going to happen -- so why not be proactive?


Stretch

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Reply with quote  #75 
And heart guards ? Every year I hear about an athlete who loses their life due to a line drive to the chest.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #76 
Not as graphic a scene or as obviously preventable
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns

Wearing a seatbelt is based on making a mistake.

In crass terms, if ESPN had an easily preventable fatality happen during the WCWS, it would reduce viewership and interest

Seems like not a huge ask to potentially protect the bottom line... It's just a couple bars of steel, not like we are voting for homecoming queen in the circle.

The mask will be required once a pitcher gets killed in a high-viewership setting -- and with kids getting stronger (pitching and hitting), it IS going to happen -- so why not be proactive?




We have had MLB players almost die and nothing has been mandated.  Why are girls treated differently?

Let the players decide, they are adults and it's their game now.
Stretch

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Not as graphic a scene or as obviously preventable


Very preventable. My daughter wore one of these when younger.

http://www.evoshield.com/en-us/protective-gear/chest-guards/girl-s-racerback-chest-guard-sleeveless-shirt?gclid=CJ_A0rSUkNMCFUUjgQodl00Hbw&gclsrc=aw.ds


3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #79 

First, baseball IS developing protective gear.

Baseball also got rid of chewing tobacco, and THAT is an activity that ONLY affects the one person and doesn't affect them at all while they are of playing age.

I find it interesting that Inglesby, Finucane and Lowary all wore masks after getting smoked by a D1 hitter.

Why is that?

You think they are weak, or just more informed than they used to be?

Stretch

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Reply with quote  #80 
Strength or weakness has nothing to do with it.

Do those big bad-ass Harley riders avoid helmets to show they are strong ? I am sure they are informed of the deaths each year caused by not wearing a helmet. Or do they not want to appear weak?

It's a choice they make as adults.
AtlUmpSteve

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Softball_rules5
ASA Rule 5 Section E - all helmets will be fitted with a NOCSAE approved fitted face mask (paraphrasing) - not being a her but gold falls under JO, so if a 19 y/o is playing they are required to wear a mask


Aside from the emotional sides to this discussion, and perceived freedom of choice, this one post points out the one biggest hurdle that keeps sanctioning bodies from mandating these face masks.  There is no defining standard nor testing agency stepping up and ready to approve/disapprove them.  Without that, a sanctioning body would actually increase potential liability by mandating anything which failed to protect.

When ASA realized the need to control the bats being used, the manufacturers own R&D departments helped the testing lab in Washington to develop standards; but it took years.  The advent of titanium bats expedited the implementation, but the original rule only banned titanium, not a specific standard; and legal actions forced the performance standards.  When ASA wanted to mandate facemasks attached to the batting helmets, NOCSAE had a great deal of research based on approval of the batting helmets, catchers masks combos, football helmets; but it still took years to implement a standard and testing procedures before a rule could be adopted (and even then it had an advance effective date).  Is anyone out there aware of ANY studies, research reports, any testing agency even considering what standards might be required for this topic?  Without that information, and an accepted standards agency (like NOCSAE) prepared to define standards, a player can currently (and legally) wear a bent coat hanger with aluminum foil wrap and stick-on band-aids as pads, and call it a safety mask.  Any rule would need to reference a performance standard to pass legal muster.

There is literally NO WAY that the NCAA will take EVER the lead on this and accept that liability.  If this is EVER to be a rule, it will absolutely need to be (now) USA Softball to once again take the lead (and accept the anger of those who want to risk their children's safety).

And, for the record, I have absolutely no current standing or connection with USA Softball; not even registered with them as an umpire these past few years.  Just stating the realities.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #82 
I never said they are weak, you brought that up.  Not quite sure how the smokeless tobacco is anywhere near a face mask - there are twelve cities with laws prohibiting it.

I'm not saying they shouldn't wear it, but let them make the decision.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #83 
"There is literally NO WAY that the NCAA will take EVER the lead on this and accept that liability."

Liability?
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns

First, baseball IS developing protective gear.

Baseball also got rid of chewing tobacco, and THAT is an activity that ONLY affects the one person and doesn't affect them at all while they are of playing age.

I find it interesting that Inglesby, Finucane and Lowary all wore masks after getting smoked by a D1 hitter.

Why is that?

You think they are weak, or just more informed than they used to be?



EVERYBODYS more informed AFTER an incident. That doesn't mean they were any less informed before they got hit. 

My kid is a pitcher. She doesn't wear a mask. Drives her mother crazy. I CAN'T/WON'T make her wear one. When she gets to school this Fall we will learn the position of the Staff & she will abide by that. 

While I do understand the inherent risks, I under no circumstances want some governing body mandating those decisions for her/us/school. We have enough of that already...it's always somebody else who knows what's better for you. That said, if the NCAA does hand down some sort of new 'safety rule", of course everybody will fall in line but, until that happens let players/parents/coaches make the personal/personnel decisions they deem fit for them. With those decisions comes the requisite responsibility of course.

It's like anything, you crack the door, you open the floodgates. Next year it will be Hangnail protection.  Then all of sudden, East Coast games played in March in Florida can't start before noon because some poor princess got sunburn, in 1994, which led to Melanoma in her third cousin. 

midwestfp

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Reply with quote  #85 
College hockey's "Frozen Four" begins tonight and if you tune into a game, you will notice every single player will be wearing a full face mask.  What percentage of players would CHOOSE to wear a full mask?  The vast majority would choose either a half shield or no mask at all.  Sooner or later, if they can figure out a proper standard, the NCAA will require some type of facemask for college softball.  I think it's inevitable.  Everyone will still have a choice.  Just like hockey players have a choice.  Wear the mask or don't play in college. 
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #86 
You were doing so well.. until that awful, ham-handed slippery-slope example

Also, one is less informed before an incident

3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestfp
College hockey's "Frozen Four" begins tonight and if you tune into a game, you will notice every single player will be wearing a full face mask.  What percentage of players would CHOOSE to wear a full mask?  The vast majority would choose either a half shield or no mask at all.  Sooner or later, if they can figure out a proper standard, the NCAA will require some type of facemask for college softball.  I think it's inevitable.  Everyone will still have a choice.  Just like hockey players have a choice.  Wear the mask or don't play in college. 
All I am saying. Surprised the NCAA hasn't insulated itself thusly in the circle.

Is catcher's gear optional?
MadDogsDad

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Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
"There is literally NO WAY that the NCAA will take EVER the lead on this and accept that liability."

Liability?


If the ASA or NCAA mandated the wearing of a protective device that didn't protect, there could be liability, especially if there was no standard for testing. Is what I think he is saying.

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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #89 
It would seem there would be a known 'performance standard' for the masks produced by the large companies that Lowary, Barnhill, Kleist et al wear...

Or THEY would ave a major liability
MadDogsDad

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Reply with quote  #90 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
It would seem there would be a known 'performance standard' for the masks produced by the large companies that Lowary, Barnhill, Kleist et al wear...

Or THEY would ave a major liability


If there is a no motorcycle helmet law in my state and I choose to wear one of those helmets that Jo Evans rocks in the 3rd base coaches box, I can't sue the state because the helmet didn't protect me. That is the NCAA stance.

As far as the manufacturer liability goes, my kids were not pitchers so I have never purchased one of those masks, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that there is some sort of hold harmless verbiage tied to the product.

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