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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #91 

There is still an expectation of safety. It is literally what that pitcher's mask is manufactured for.

In MOST businesses, making the effort reduces the liability. Like, at our place a decade ago, every employee had to go to a sexual harassment class. It was wholly to help cover the company from exposure

But, yes, I have heard the arguments that ignoring an issue can benefit a company in a court room, too

Stretch

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Reply with quote  #92 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
You were doing so well.. until that awful, ham-handed slippery-slope example

Also, one is less informed before an incident



Darn
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #93 
Darn... indeed
MadDogsDad

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Reply with quote  #94 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns

There is still an expectation of safety. It is literally what that pitcher's mask is manufactured for.

In MOST businesses, making the effort reduces the liability. Like, at our place a decade ago, every employee had to go to a sexual harassment class. It was wholly to help cover the company from exposure

But, yes, I have heard the arguments that ignoring an issue can benefit a company in a court room, too



Not to belabor the point but my oldest took a pitch off the the side of the helmet and mask, the mask came off the helmet, and she was diagnosed with a concussion. I don't want to think about what would have happened without the helmet or mask.

So my expectation of safety is that wearing the helmet ended up with my kid having a concussion rather than a coma or worse.

If that makes sense.

Those players will more than likely suffer less damage from a direct hit to the face than they would unprotected. The safety expectation shouldn't be that there will be no damage.


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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #95 
absolutely
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #96 
I believe ATLUMPSTEVE was behind the plate at Georgia Tech when my daughter took a shot to the face and actually caught it. It scared the crap out of me, but I never questioned my decision to insist she wear it in practice before wearing it in a game. The shots to the body kill more every year. Steve, how many shots to a pitchers head do you see in a year? How many off a fielder? I've only seen one to a 3rd baseman that continued and finished the game. It was high school and no concussion protocal was followed. The player was on our team and suffered no problems, save a headache after the game.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #97 

The shots to the face that Lowary and Finucane took were of a velocity ... they weren't being caught by anyone. Except a base coach perhaps off the ground


outofzone

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Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
You were doing so well.. until that awful, ham-handed slippery-slope example

Also, one is less informed before an incident



Sadly yes..i'll do better next time.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
I believe ATLUMPSTEVE was behind the plate at Georgia Tech when my daughter took a shot to the face and actually caught it. It scared the crap out of me, but I never questioned my decision to insist she wear it in practice before wearing it in a game. The shots to the body kill more every year. Steve, how many shots to a pitchers head do you see in a year? How many off a fielder? I've only seen one to a 3rd baseman that continued and finished the game. It was high school and no concussion protocal was followed. The player was on our team and suffered no problems, save a headache after the game.


Killed? Whom? When?
Softball98mom

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Reply with quote  #100 
Those players will more than likely suffer less damage from a direct hit to the face than they would unprotected. The safety expectation shouldn't be that there will be no damage.
---
I'll take a concussion over surgery to repair an eye socket and fake teeth for a lifetime...

On another point...'missed their spot' aren't the only ones that get hard back at the pitcher.

Why this is even a discussion I don't get, if a player wants to wear one then wear it. And when that said mask wearing pitcher strikes your kid out, tip your cap to her.
tailgater

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Reply with quote  #101 
I see a lot of people saying it should be the players choice, unfortunately there are still many college coaches that will not allow a pitcher to wear a mask.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #102 
We had a baseball player killed locally last year by a hit ball to the chest. I have heard there are other instances around the country, assumed more nationwide. 
I don't discourage or encourage the wearing of masks. 

Mangler

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Reply with quote  #103 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailgater
I see a lot of people saying it should be the players choice, unfortunately there are still many college coaches that will not allow a pitcher to wear a mask.


Some will but sadly some will not
Personally, given what a coach has invested in a ace pitcher or super duper corner player if I were that coach I'd require them to wear one.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #104 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailgater
I see a lot of people saying it should be the players choice, unfortunately there are still many college coaches that will not allow a pitcher to wear a mask.


Which coaches will not allow their players to do that? That should be made public.
Softball_rules5

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Reply with quote  #105 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


Which coaches will not allow their players to do that? That should be made public.


Will never be made public but there have been multiple surveys conducted, some very recently where coaches answered they would not recruit a kid with a mask and even expanded on those answers as to why.
tailgater

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Reply with quote  #106 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Softball_rules5
Will never be made public but there have been multiple surveys conducted, some very recently where coaches answered they would not recruit a kid with a mask and even expanded on those answers as to why.


I will only name the coach that my family had to deal with, I have friends who's kids still play for these coach's and do want to see them punished for being named.

At 2012 PGF nationals my daughter was struck in the face which resulted in two orbital fractures and around 40 stiches in three different areas. She returned to pitching in a few weeks with a mask. She wore a mask her senior year of high school and her freshman year of college with no problems from any coaches. Unfortunately Kristen Butler was named the new coach at the Univ of Toledo for her sophomore season. When my daughter went to wear the mask in their first intra squad scrimmage while she was running to the mound with mask in hand Butler yells out what are you doing you are a big girl now.  She was asked if she would try to pitch the fall season with out the mask and if she wanted to go back to wearing the mask in the springs season she could. Weeks before the start of the spring season she asked Butler about wearing the mask again, Butlers reply was let me get back with you on that.

While on the bus on the way to the first game she got back with her. If you want to pitch with a mask you must wear it all times including in the dugout sitting on the bench, stretching, warmups ect. Her way of embarrassing her from wearing it. The kid gutted the season out with tons of abuse from Butler, and stats much worse than the season with mask. When the season was over she walked from the game due to this horrible experience. To this day she wont even watch a game on tv. Butler has had three former mask wearers leave the team in two years, and a recruit from the prior staff. Two of them never stepped on the field again. That's how bad it was.

How someone can look at a girls face and see the scars from the accident and still tell her you cant wear that mask, is something I will never understand.

I can go on forever about this experience.




Stretch

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Reply with quote  #107 
Sounds like a horrible situation for your daughter. Thanks for sharing.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #108 
Agreed - the only way to get this practice to stop.
Softball98mom

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Reply with quote  #109 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Softball_rules5


Will never be made public but there have been multiple surveys conducted, some very recently where coaches answered they would not recruit a kid with a mask and even expanded on those answers as to why.


Let's applaud the coaches that do 'allow' it! There are numerous top teams who have a player that wears a mask, and if those coaches that don't allow it aren't called out that's a step back for these young women. That's a decision they should make, only they are in control of their safety(if that's why they wear it).
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #110 
I remember Stacey Nuveman making some disparaging remarks about wearting a mask on a batting helmet. While I was late coming around to pitchers wearing masks(still on the fence for fielders), we started at 12u requiring our batters to use face guards. We had seen many instances of balls coming straight from the bat to face, with literally no time to react. Slappers and attempted bunts were at the highest risk. I think fielders can protect themselves if taught proper procedures for getting ready and learning to react to pitch type and location. I have never bought in to having your corners start with their glove on the ground, bent over to supposedly cover mis-hits and bunts. We start slightly lower than middle infielders, but not so low that a fielder can't protect herself from a shot at her head. 
Maybe I'm(my players) just lucky, but never had a fielder hit with a line drive. I can count the times I've seen a pitcher hit on one hand, one of which knocked the pitcher out for the year. Did have one pitcher eventually quit pitching as a result of being hit. 






Stretch

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Reply with quote  #111 
One brave sole stepped up..................any others?
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #112 
Coaches have far too much control over the players, nowadays.........

There needs to be an uprising against these kind of coaches..............
cleareyesfullheart

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Reply with quote  #113 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestfp
College hockey's "Frozen Four" begins tonight and if you tune into a game, you will notice every single player will be wearing a full face mask.  What percentage of players would CHOOSE to wear a full mask?  The vast majority would choose either a half shield or no mask at all.  Sooner or later, if they can figure out a proper standard, the NCAA will require some type of facemask for college softball.  I think it's inevitable.  Everyone will still have a choice.  Just like hockey players have a choice.  Wear the mask or don't play in college. 


They should then require it for baseball too. There should not be a double standard
cleareyesfullheart

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Reply with quote  #114 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailgater
I see a lot of people saying it should be the players choice, unfortunately there are still many college coaches that will not allow a pitcher to wear a mask.


A coach, any coach, who tells a kid they can't wear a mask is setting them selves up for a law suit
krazsoftballmom

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Reply with quote  #115 
It's a shame that some college coaches have objection to players wearing a mask.  My daughter pitches D1 and although I've never encouraged the use of a mask, I certainly wouldn't discourage it if she felt the need to wear one.  Risks and injury occur in every sport. As softball evolves many factors have changed the game. However, I've seen some great D1 pitchers who have no defensive skills at all.  The focus has been on just pitching the ball.  Unfortunately sometimes a screamer comes right back at them and thier face gets in the way.  At this level every player in the infield is at risk of taking a shot with that said, face masks should be an option for every player if they want to wear one not a requirement.  
drivemyjeep

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Reply with quote  #116 
The old school coaches won't have it.

If a coach is dumb enough to say out loud that they can't wear one... that just doesn't make sense. Just don't recruit em!

Sad.
DTitanFan

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Reply with quote  #117 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleareyesfullheart


They should then require it for baseball too. There should not be a double standard


Agree 100%. It is a total double standard. (Remember the "safety base" they wanted to introduce at the college level awhile back? Didn't hear a similar outcry that baseball needed one of those either).

With that said, in this day and age, any coach who said that a mask could not be worn, would absolutely risk exposing him/herself to a possible lawsuit. This goes for batting helmet cages too. 


TerpAlum

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Reply with quote  #118 
The reason baseball does not have to deal with masks is the fact that they have successfully dealt with the bats. You have the BBCOR and the aluminium.

Softball, meanwhile, has not, because no parent can stand little Sally at 10 not being able to blast a hit. And it continues from there.

This particular reasoning was included in one of the state's (can't recall which one but it came out a few days ago) rules, mandating masks for HS softball pitchers but not baseball pitchers.
CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #119 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
The reason baseball does not have to deal with masks is the fact that they have successfully dealt with the bats. You have the BBCOR and the aluminium.

Softball, meanwhile, has not, because no parent can stand little Sally at 10 not being able to blast a hit. And it continues from there.

This particular reasoning was included in one of the state's (can't recall which one but it came out a few days ago) rules, mandating masks for HS softball pitchers but not baseball pitchers.


And that old 43' versus 60'6" distance thing.
MadDogsDad

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Reply with quote  #120 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunAmos


And that old 43' versus 60'6" distance thing.


Countered by the size of the ball

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And if I don't like what you say then...

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