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outofzone

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Reply with quote  #151 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantomz27
so a little replant is what makes here better?? I don’t think so. I think it’s more like she can throw the rise all at three different levels. How many of y’all have pitchers for daughters?


Barnhill has been enabled from Pitch #1 her Freshman year. Walton & Staff did very little to address her mechanics, and why would he when he knew the Plate Umpires were too cowardly to properly address the blatant rule infraction. 100% of the blame is on the Umpires. We're not talking about some isolated infraction either. We're talking about the single most dominating Pitcher over the last 3 years being allowed to systematically cheat every time she takes the circle. As far as being able to throw a 3-level rise in the low 70s, only makes the non calls more egregious.

In almost every game where she has been called for IP, she has struggled. Not sure what her record is but she goes from near unhittable to mortal when forced to throw legally. Remember Georgia last year?

Remember the phantom IP call on Prince/KY against OR couple years ago? Laughable.

Every IP call an Ump makes on any pitcher not named Barnhill/Plain/Gorsuch in 2019 will make a mockery of the game. The Umps are cowards & enable the cheating. 

I've got a youngster pitching in college. She's one of many kids with textbook mechanics. Why is she not allowed the advantage of breaking the rules in the same game Barnhill is??


CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #152 
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofzone


Barnhill has been enabled from Pitch #1 her Freshman year. Walton & Staff did very little to address her mechanics, and why would he when he knew the Plate Umpires were too cowardly to properly address the blatant rule infraction. 100% of the blame is on the Umpires. We're not talking about some isolated infraction either. We're talking about the single most dominating Pitcher over the last 3 years being allowed to systematically cheat every time she takes the circle. As far as being able to throw a 3-level rise in the low 70s, only makes the non calls more egregious.

In almost every game where she has been called for IP, she has struggled. Not sure what her record is but she goes from near unhittable to mortal when forced to throw legally. Remember Georgia last year?

Remember the phantom IP call on Prince/KY against OR couple years ago? Laughable.

Every IP call an Ump makes on any pitcher not named Barnhill/Plain/Gorsuch in 2019 will make a mockery of the game. The Umps are cowards & enable the cheating. 

I've got a youngster pitching in college. She's one of many kids with textbook mechanics. Why is she not allowed the advantage of breaking the rules in the same game Barnhill is??




It would be interesting to see umpire reaction if opposong pitchers purposefully IP regularly early in games against her.
UGASBFan

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Reply with quote  #153 
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofzone


Barnhill has been enabled from Pitch #1 her Freshman year. Walton & Staff did very little to address her mechanics, and why would he when he knew the Plate Umpires were too cowardly to properly address the blatant rule infraction. 100% of the blame is on the Umpires. We're not talking about some isolated infraction either. We're talking about the single most dominating Pitcher over the last 3 years being allowed to systematically cheat every time she takes the circle. As far as being able to throw a 3-level rise in the low 70s, only makes the non calls more egregious.

In almost every game where she has been called for IP, she has struggled. Not sure what her record is but she goes from near unhittable to mortal when forced to throw legally. Remember Georgia last year?

Remember the phantom IP call on Prince/KY against OR couple years ago? Laughable.

Every IP call an Ump makes on any pitcher not named Barnhill/Plain/Gorsuch in 2019 will make a mockery of the game. The Umps are cowards & enable the cheating. 

I've got a youngster pitching in college. She's one of many kids with textbook mechanics. Why is she not allowed the advantage of breaking the rules in the same game Barnhill is??




Duke got a good one...
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #154 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunAmos


It would be interesting to see umpire reaction if opposong pitchers purposefully IP regularly early in games against her.


That would be the ultimate strategy...

Plain is a mirror image of Barnhill but legal more often. I personally don't see where she gains any advantage other than having poor mechanics. Gorsuch is another story. I think her & Barnhill are sponsored by the same Altimeter Company. She'll get dinged a few times early but probably won't get noticed much unless she starts throwing perfect games. 

Like many, not anti-Barnhill/Florida. It's just unfortunate Umpires continue to make a mockery of the game with the double standard.

RahOKU

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Reply with quote  #155 
I may have put out a ranking before, or maybe just a top 5. i've also clowned around with the Oregon/Texas nexus. So here's a more serious "guess" as to a preseason top 25, taking into account the movement of players:

1. Oklahoma
2. UCLA
3. Florida
4. Washington
5. Florida State
6. Arizona
7. Louisiana
8. Arkansas
9. Texas
10. Michigan
11. South Carolina
12. Alabama
13. Kentucky
14. Georgia
15. Tennessee
16. Oklahoma State
17. Ohio State
18. Baylor
19. LSU
20. JMU
21. Oregon
22. Minnesota
23. Notre Dame
24. Auburn
25. CSUF

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #156 
Umpires don't do it to make a mockery of the game. Most don't want the hassle from coaches for calling an infraction they don't really understand. Most don't think it gives an advantage. My daughter graduated in 2011 and I was insistent that she pitch by the book. Wouldn't let her step back in high school for fear she'd be uncomfortable in travel ball and subsequently in college. After 2 years, I was greatly frustrated........ Most of the more experienced coaches and parents told me to get over it, that I was naive. It wasn't going to change. Lo and behold, several years later it became a point of emphasis and you have never experienced such outrage. All throughout the game, including this board, most people felt it was slowing down the game unnecessarily. That lasted about a year and then returned to the old hit or miss application of the leap rule. I can assure you that until they start to enforce it again, nobody will care. You have to admit it doesn't get argued much. So sit back and take a chill pill, it isn't going to change. 
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The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
SECFan04

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Reply with quote  #157 
Gorsuch has been illegal since her travel ball days. They better find a fix, she was hammered this fall for IPs

The only way people will care about her is if she starts to pitch perfect games or put up big numbers. If her era is average or poor no one will care..

Barnhill and Plain are more notable due to the numbers they are putting up. Although I think plain is more legal more than barnhill.
TyCobb

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Reply with quote  #158 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECFan04
Gorsuch has been illegal since her travel ball days. They better find a fix, she was hammered this fall for IPs

The only way people will care about her is if she starts to pitch perfect games or put up big numbers. If her era is average or poor no one will care..

Barnhill and Plain are more notable due to the numbers they are putting up. Although I think plain is more legal more than barnhill.


Speaking of rules, does anyone else think that the new batter in box for slappers that started will continue to change up things.  I personally can see coaches steering away from teaching it.  I know M. Klaevemann at FSU really struggled with the new rule, she went from hitting above .350 her whole career to down in the .257 with the new rule.  
Lovepurplelivegold

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Reply with quote  #159 
Love Gorsuch and her riseball. She can be LSU’s next Ace and after sitting behind to of the best pitchers in school history I think she’s ready. But she sometimes she is illegal and I think Beth will spend January working on that with her. Hoover has her problems with illegal pitches too early on.
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outofzone

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Reply with quote  #160 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Umpires don't do it to make a mockery of the game. Most don't want the hassle from coaches  for calling an infraction they don't really understand. Most don't think it gives an advantage. My daughter graduated in 2011 and I was insistent that she pitch by the book. Wouldn't let her step back in high school for fear she'd be uncomfortable in travel ball and subsequently in college. After 2 years, I was greatly frustrated........ Most of the more experienced coaches and parents told me to get over it, that I was naive. It wasn't going to change. Lo and behold, several years later it became a point of emphasis and you have never experienced such outrage. All throughout the game, including this board, most people felt it was slowing down the game unnecessarily. That lasted about a year and then returned to the old hit or miss application of the leap rule. I can assure you that until they start to enforce it again, nobody will care. You have to admit it doesn't get argued much. So sit back and take a chill pill, it isn't going to change. 


You've always been consistent in your opinion.

Per the first bold above. You, me, and most everybody who follows the game fully understands what constitutes an IP. And leaping, Stevie Wonder could spot that infraction from behind his piano with his sunglasses on. That's what makes all the no-calls so egregious. Any Ump working 1st or 3rd has the perfect angle to see either a lefty/righty. And, with at least 1 working a respective corner on every play and looking thru the Circle, it's not that they aren't seeing it, they are IGNORING it. Because if as you say Umps don't understand the Rule, then we got a much bigger issue going on. I've always said the Umps don't make pre-game Crew decision. And that only leaves a Conference Mandate as part of their Crew Game Mgt. In short, depending who's in the Circle, the Game is rigged against the opposing team. Name any other Sport where a Rule/Infraction is so blatantly ignored? 

To put it in perspective if you think "Rigged" is too strong: What would the Vegas Line be when Barnhill is pitching vs games when she isn't? Plain?

Per the last bold sentence, I agree 100%. And it defies logic. Chill Pill the best route I guess.
SECFan04

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Reply with quote  #161 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCobb


Speaking of rules, does anyone else think that the new batter in box for slappers that started will continue to change up things.  I personally can see coaches steering away from teaching it.  I know M. Klaevemann at FSU really struggled with the new rule, she went from hitting above .350 her whole career to down in the .257 with the new rule.  


I felt bad for Klaevemann at times. It was brutal watching her struggle with the new rules. I know she really did work hard to not step out the box, she just did not adjust well unfortunately. 
SECFan04

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Reply with quote  #162 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovepurplelivegold
Love Gorsuch and her riseball. She can be LSU’s next Ace and after sitting behind to of the best pitchers in school history I think she’s ready. But she sometimes she is illegal and I think Beth will spend January working on that with her. Hoover has her problems with illegal pitches too early on.


Beth looked like she was trying to reengineer her mechanics this fall, not sure what exactly it will look like come spring time. I know with Hoover she was constantly making adjustments and tweaks with her stuff as well. I do trust her with pitchers though and making the proper changes needed for them to succeed. 

Gorsuch's biggest challenge to overcome next is pitching games successfully back to back. She had a lot of good outings in 2018 but would struggle to put together back to back games on the same weekend. I do think those two freshmen pitchers will be leaned on heavily at times though, its gonna be a big adjustment for Kilponen and Wickersham. 
Lovepurplelivegold

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Reply with quote  #163 
She did struggle with that but I believe that’s just because she hasn’t done it. She has the tools a ride ball, she throws a screw, Beth has been teaching her a drop ball, and she has a change up. I think with more time in the circle she will be great. All I know is that Beth Torina has 4 quality pitchers. Gorsuch and Sunseri has shown flashes of being very good. And Kilponen and Wickersham have the tools. But what I saw in that fall ball game vs Baylor (even though she got called for some illegal pitches) is that Gorsuch has a much different look on her face than from last season. She looks much more confident and like a leader. We’ll see how far she can take LSU
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donald
kkzc0s

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Reply with quote  #164 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovepurplelivegold
My shot:
1.) UCLA
2.) Washington
3.) Florida
4.) Oklahoma
5.) Arizona
6.) Texas
7.) FSU
8.) SC
9.) Kentucky
10.) Georgia
11.) Louisiana
12.) Arkansas
13.) Alabama
14.) Tennessee
15.) JMU
16.) Michigan
17.) LSU
18.) Ok State
19.) Baylor
20.) Ohio State
21.) Miss st
22.) Minnesota
23.) Auburn
24.) Oregon
25.) ASU
First Five Out: CSUF, A&M, Drake, ND, Cal

ANALYSIS:
As of today December 24, 2018 those are the top four teams right now. We can debate on the order and each has some things to be answered, but those are the top 4. I just went with who lost the least and that’s UCLA. Hopefully they find a number 2. Washington lost a lot, but still has two very good pitchers. Florida lost a lot, but IMO has the best pitcher and player (Barnhill and Lorenz). However I think losing Rocha will hurt. And Oklahoma maybe will have the best team in the end, but at the start they still have to work with two new pitchers albeit very good ones. Also the lost of Arnold, Pendley, and Wodach may seem small but they were big pieces of that team.

Is this the year for Arizona to finally make it back? They have the pieces, but... they’ve had the pieces for a couple years. Texas is back! I’m high on Texas however there’s a lot of new pieces that need to be interwoven with the returning players. Even with all of the new pieces, I’m excited to see what Janae Jefferson can do in her second year. Next are our defending National Champions FSU. They lose Hanson and Warren, but with King back and Alameda at the helm, they should be at the top of the ACC looking to host another Super Regional. Then you have Kentucky and SC. Not the usual powerhouses from the SEC but both of these team return A LOT excited to see both take the next step. Georgia has the offense to get back to the WCWS, however can Fico get Avant and the crew ready in the circle? I think Avant can be an Ace, but she has to be more consistent.

Louisiana’s “fall” was very quick as Glasco has this team looking to get back to the WCWS and with the addition of Kleist they are looking good. We’ll see how Glasco integrates all the transfers but times are rolling for the Ragin Cajuns! Arkansas was the surprise last year and this year should be better with the addition of Gibson and Jackson. I really like this Arkansas team as Storms and Haff try to become the premier two headed monster albeit MANY school have something to say about that. Next we have Alabama and Tennessee two powerhouse programs in the SEC. Alabama has to replace Osorio, but they have a very good offense coming back and Fouts looking to become the next great Alabama Ace. Tennessee loses the best player in school history in Meghan Gregg, but the Weeklys still have very good pieces and add the younger Shippman. Question is can Tennessee perform throughout the WHOLE season. JMU coming off a great year adds All American Good back. Last year without Good JMU had to lean on other players on both offense and in the circle. With her back, look for JMU to push to host a regional and no one wants to face Megan Good.

I think Michigan will be back at the top of the Big 10 this year. With Beaubien leading in the circle, if Michigan can find more consistency in from the number 2 and replace Blanco’s lost power, they should host a regional. Now to my favorite team them LSU tigers. Hoover and Walljasper are LSU greats and losing them is a lot. However, with the addition of Amanda Sanchez, the offense can be good. Andrews and Doyle are back, Sunseri gets a full year in the lineup, and the bottom of the order produces even a little, we’ll be ok. In the circle, I would never doubt Torina. Gorsuch and Sunseri had moments of brightness especially in the Florida series. Add Kilponen and Wickersham to that, I think LSU will be good and can fight to host a regional. Ok state loses Shippy but with the additions of Show, Sprang, and Springfield to an already solid team, they can be a team who surprises people. Glen Moore will always have Baylor in a position to host a regional and with Walker and Dawson at the top, look for them to run on anyone. Rodoni is a very good pitcher but Baylor needs a number 2 to emerge for they can be a real threat. Ohio state returns one the best players in the country in Lilli Pipper. I think Ohio State is the second best team in the Big 10, but can they replace Shelby McCombs who was big on offense and in the circle.

Auburn has a lot of questions to answer and it starts with offense much like LSU. They have to better. They didn’t really bring in any new players so they have to get better with what they have. Taylon Snow, Rivera and McCrackin are threevery good players and they should be great. But I’m looking at Senior Kendall Veach she needs to be a force in the middle of that lineup and I think she can with the help of a hopefully healthy Tannon Snow and a should be improved Justus Perry they should be good. And they just need to find a number 2 pitcher. Martin is good but can’t do it by herself. Mississippi State can be a surprise team but it matters how they are in the circle. Usually Vann has a very good pitching staff but this year that’s a question mark. Can Loza from ASU be a difference maker? Sophomore Emily Williams player well last year going 5-1 with a 1.74 era but she’ll need to produce more. They also have highly ranked recruit Grace Fagan coming in. The offense lead by Mia Davidson should be at least adequate. Minnesota can be the best team in the big10 and host a regional. They have two pitchers who can be all Americans in Amber Fiser and Sydney Smith unlike Michigan and OSU I just dropped them down because of the lost Lindamann. I know they bring in Brandner but Minnesota is more of a wait and see for me. However they can be a very good team and easily win another Big10 tile. Lastly you have Oregon and ASU and oh so much can change in a couple of months. Oregon has gone through so much change, but I’m interested in seeing what they can do. I think they have an Ace in Balint and with Dail and McGrandle being lefties and know with Lombardi has done with lefties, I’m intrigued. On Offense they have decent pieces but we have to see who produces. At ASU they don’t have one returning pitcher all transfers and freshmen Meza is a good pitcher but i don’t know if she can do it alone. Losing Gibson is huge and the offense will have to find ways to score runs. But Howe and Hackbarth must lead the offense and they both had good numbers last year.

Sorry for the long post lol Merry Christmas
kkzc0s

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Reply with quote  #165 
Totally agree with you about Texas!! They are going to surprise a lot of people!!
TyCobb

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Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECFan04


I felt bad for Klaevemann at times. It was brutal watching her struggle with the new rules. I know she really did work hard to not step out the box, she just did not adjust well unfortunately. 


Agreed, I suppose after hitting that way after so many years it was just too hard.  I guess that not all slappers step close to out or out of the box like MK did, so they didn't have any problem with the rule.  The whole point of slapping is to get a head start to first base right?
TyCobb

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Reply with quote  #167 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkzc0s
Totally agree with you about Texas!! They are going to surprise a lot of people!!


I am excited to see Texas vs. Oklahoma!
kkzc0s

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Reply with quote  #168 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCobb


I am excited to see Texas vs. Oklahoma!
kkzc0s

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Reply with quote  #169 
Me too!! I will be there for that game!!
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #170 
I may go to those games too. I'm about 3 hours away
Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #171 
I don't want to derail this thread into another round of arguing over IPs, but I think blaming umpires for not calling IPs is wide of the mark:

  • Umpires have been less willing to call IPs in conference-play because they fear complaints from coaches can lead to them not being retained.
  • The NCAA went from emphasizing calling IPs (when the problem was mostly in the Pac-12) to de-emphasizing calling IPs (when the problem was mostly in the SEC). ESPN (which owns half the SEC Network) clearly does not want its coverage mucked up by IP calls. Solution: just don't call it.
  • The NCAA, by reducing the penalty from a ball and a base for any runners to just a ball, took almost all the teeth out of enforcement of the rule. If the only penalty is a ball, that is scant incentive for coaches to alter a pitcher's mechanics.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #172 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa
I don't want to derail this thread into another round of arguing over IPs, but I think blaming umpires for not calling IPs is wide of the mark:

  • Umpires have been less willing to call IPs in conference-play because they fear complaints from coaches can lead to them not being retained.
  • The NCAA went from emphasizing calling IPs (when the problem was mostly in the Pac-12) to de-emphasizing calling IPs (when the problem was mostly in the SEC). ESPN (which owns half the SEC Network) clearly does not want its coverage mucked up by IP calls. Solution: just don't call it.
  • The NCAA, by reducing the penalty from a ball and a base for any runners to just a ball, took almost all the teeth out of enforcement of the rule. If the only penalty is a ball, that is scant incentive for coaches to alter a pitcher's mechanics.
Your first point is probably closer to reality. The Politics of an Ump's schedule is pretty important.

Your second point is a BS Conspiracy Theory. 

The last point, I think the penalty reduction was the right move. The only incentive for not altering mechanics was the simple fact the IP weren't being called anyway. 

Umpires aren't smart enough to make a unilateral decision to ignore the IP and they are too cowardly to stick their own neck out there, enforce the infraction, for fear of being ostracized by their peers or fans. When you have career Umpires, some of the best working the big games year in year out, only making token calls early in the Spring, it' more plausible they are only following the Directives of the their Conferences. They all have their marching orders. They can pass the buck upstairs.


kkzc0s

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Reply with quote  #173 
Me too!! I will be there for that game!!
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #174 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkzc0s
Me too!! I will be there for that game!!


Aaron, a new screen name was a good idea!!!!!!
You pretty much scrogged the last one on that Maryland thread!!!

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cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sb14

Not at all in big games? How about UCLA and Florida in wcws??


I just rewatched that game. I had forgotten they called an illegal pitch on Barnhill. But, come on. She was called for 1. I'm not sure how they picked that particular one since she threw a ton of them in that game. I was thinking more about their march in the 2017 WCWS, where not a single one was called.

Sb14

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Reply with quote  #176 
Did you ever think maybe she’s not illegal? I’ve watched several slow mo pitches where her foot stays down.
UGASBFan

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Reply with quote  #177 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sb14
Did you ever think maybe she’s not illegal? I’ve watched several slow mo pitches where her foot stays down.


Oh. Oh dear.

She sprung and hopped and jumped all over Jack Turner last year. Good thing Lu rode the umps till she got lit up and pulled.
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #178 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sb14
Did you ever think maybe she’s not illegal? I’ve watched several slow mo pitches where her foot stays down.


No. I never thought that because I have tons of video and in-person evidence to the contrary. She will occasionally pitch legally but she often leaps and replants.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #179 
Leaps, seldom replants.
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The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #180 
FIFY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Leaps, replants.
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