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keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,683
Reply with quote  #31 
"The host said she wanted to inoculate me against charges of racism. I don’t play that game. I’m just a guy watching a car crash and wondering why everyone is trying to convince me there is no car crash."

so you are denying that there is a car crash?

So reporting on a story MUST have an ulterior motive?  Typical white liberal denial, DC you are stooping lower and lower.  At least this time no SNOPES to deny my claim

Quote:
Ahh... it all makes sense now.  Reading World Nut Daily again, eh?

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/23/worldnetdaily_now_peddling_white_nationalism/




Must be white Nationalism when the author does a factual presentation on mob violence, yeah that's it.  We aren't allowed to converse about it or educate those who do not know.


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #32 
real - You are going to vilify me for getting personal when that is your rather constant means of communication?  Honestly, I do find that very humorous.  Let's straighten this out.   I respect your intelligence and willingness to extend yourself in posting what might be described as debatable ideas.  That said, I guess I'll get out of my gated community, gather my grandchildren, and go to Chuckee Cheese for whatever they serve there in my ivy tower libtard world, just as soon as I finish eating that stuff that all old people eat. Maybe I'll even  take a walk in the park, watch a softball game, and indulge my obvious ignorance.       Frank
PS - There is a major car crash with numerous vehicles involved.  I very much like your martial law concept, but would cities put up with the federal intervention?  Still I feel that drastic conditions call for drastic means.
After the imposition of physical martial law to prevent violence, what would you propose to correct the root causes of that which spawned the hate violence?

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
mikec

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Posts: 8,076
Reply with quote  #33 
Fair enough, I won't guess your intentions, not you guess mine.  And, don't imply I have a few token friends to assuage my white guilt.

I am not under anyone's influence, hiding, dumbfounded, or anything of the like.



Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
It's not going anywhere mike, it is an eye opener that no one has ever talked about, it's an information piece.

I knew there were racial tensions out there and thought it was a topic worth discussing.  Seems like a few of you are dumbfounded by the topic. 

If you have nothing to add, don't.  Skip the topic if you wish but the more of you that deny the problem exists the more that you play right into the author's premise.  It will not go away until it is addressed. 

This is not a count of how many 'minority friends' that you have.  You are falling into that trap where if you have 2 or 3 black friends then the problem must not be true.  The rise in racial violence in this country is growing and if you want to dispute that fact, the author's premise or my motivation then go right ahead and dispute it with links of your own.

But don't try and guess my motives or intentions.  I am doing nothing but shining a light where few of you want to see.  I agree we have a problem and until more admit it the problem will not go away.  "really not sure where this is going" mike says, I'm not either
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,683
Reply with quote  #34 
You don't like WND?  Let's give equal time from a black man.  At least this man doesn't deny it or try and silence the messenger

From
http://www.chaunceydevega.com [We Are Respectable Negroes]

 
 
 

Thursday, June 14, 2012

How Should African-American Writers Discuss the Mob Violence Being Committed by Black Youth?

 


As WBBM Newsradio’s Bernie Tafoya reports, around 10:30 p.m. Saturday, a 23-year-old man was beaten up on the CTA Red Line near the State-Lake stop Saturday by a group of about six teenagers. 
The teens had just stolen the man’s 27-year-old female friend’s iPhone 4S. She had dropped the phone, and a teen had picked it up and taken it for himself. 
The man told the teen to give his wife her iPhone back. But they instead began punching him in the face. 
The group then fled the train at State and Lake streets, near the Chicago Theatre. 
Another woman with the group, from West Chicago, tells the Aurora Beacon-News it was the scariest night of her life  
She tells the paper she and her two friends got on the Red Line at the Addison stop after attending the Brad Paisley concert at Wrigley Field. Near downtown, the group of teens got on, and by the time it was over, the man with the group had a broken bone near his eye and broken teeth, and he was bloodied.
Some real talk...

I never apologize. I rarely if ever offer mea culpas. But, I do believe in critical self-reflection. Thus, how to make sense of the above news item?

I love my black people. I truly do. When I read stories such as these about black youth, I shake my head. I am frustrated and saddened.

I am also committed to practicing critical self-reflection as a life rule, and to always doing my best to tell the truth.

A week or so ago, I offered an essay on flash mobs, black youth, mob violence, and the Right-wing race war meme. I have read it several times. It is some of my best work. I stand by everything that I wrote in When Blacks Attack: The Right-Wing Media's Race War Fantasies.

My claims about conservatives' dishonesty regarding black criminality, the political uses of such stories to fuel white racial resentment, and the historical context for black on white crime dramas in the white racial imagination remains true.

When I started We Are Respectable Negroes one of the promises I made to myself was to never misrepresent the facts to those who take the time to read what I offer here or elsewhere. I try to be transparent in my assumptions, theories, frameworks, and arguments because intellectual work is political work. I will never make claims that do not hold up to my own high standards of critical thinking.

 I have been offered money to do the opposite and have refused. That will never change. I want folks to come to WARN not knowing who I am, and then those who know me in the "real world" to be able to say, "yes, that sounds just like you, it was never a surprise." That means something to me which is hard to articulate.

Fate also teaches lessons randomly. Crom is indeed a trickster. One of the challenges of being a person of color who writes about race and politics, and is invested in the uplift of their people, is that you are cast as a "race man" or "race woman." This can be burdensome. If you have a commitment to truth-telling, these are moments where there is great pressure from all sides.

The dishonest colorblind racist Right is waiting for any moment to call attention to the social ills--real or imagined--of black and brown people. These conservatives are tainted by bigotry and resentment. The worst of them are so sick (that to borrow from Brother Akbar) they will call black genius stupidity, and black greatness, failure. As race men, we do not want to give this low class of white conservatives (and their white supremacist cousins) any additional ammo to use against us when they already have a loaded gun at our heads, and a hanging judge on the payroll.

The liberal racists on the Left hold black people in low regard. They are willing to offer a narrative that personal responsibility, common sense, and good behavior are somehow made anathema to the black and brown poor because of institutions and structures. Yes, macro-level arrangements of power are significant. But, we are not children.

Agency may be truncated; nevertheless it exists. Therefore, it is easy to excuse-make and hide behind sociological theory when you do not have to live next to the brigand classes, and when their fists are not in your face, their boots not on your neck.

So exhausting these matters are:
Just before 10 p.m. Saturday, another teen mob attacked two men – one from Chicago, the other in town from Michigan – in the 500 block of North State Street. One victim was left with a broken jaw, the other suffered a cut lip. 
In that case, the suspected muggers were apprehended quickly. They fled, but officers caught up with them on Kinzie Street between State Street and Wabash Avenue. Ten people were arrested. 
One adult – 18-year-old Mitchell Coradarrowe, of the 5900 block of South Indiana Avenue – was charged with felony mob action and aggravated battery. Seven others, ages 13 to 16, were charged as juveniles with felony mob action. 
In a third incident, a 36-year-old man was attacked by a teen mob as he walked home from work along Dewitt Place near Pearson Street in Streeterville. 
Police say the man was robbed and attacked by anywhere from 10 to 20 people. The man was taken to the hospital with a head injury, but he was able to walk on his own after the attack. 
Since the attack, the man, a doctor at Northwestern Memorial Hospital, has granted an interview to the Chicago Tribune’s John Kass for a column that ran Wednesday. The doctor told Kass that even though his home is four blocks from the hospital where he works, he will now be taking a cab home. 
The doctor is Asian and the assailants African-American, but the victim told Kass he did not believe race was the motivation for the attack. He told Kass, rather, that the group seemed just to be beating people for fun.
Unacceptable.

Members of racialized and marginalized communities often see themselves through the eyes of others. This is one of the challenges that comes with the politics of (black) respectability. How do we remain intellectually, philosophically, morally, and ethically true to ourselves when such principles are often not rewarded or reinforced by the broader society?

I get, and can practice with no small amount of skill, the rhetoric and logic that marshals concepts like community disorganization, limited opportunity structures, the ghetto underclass, social capital, the prison industrial complex, divergences in life worlds, agency, mobility, and opportunity structures, as well as the perils of an urban youthocracy with its local morals.

Consequently, when surveying the media's coverage of crime by black youth in their own communities, and random violence that is being visited by a small subset of urban highway men and highway women upon the public, I understand the macro-level sociological story.

Young people are not risk averse; violent crime is their purview. They do stupid things. There is a lack of proper role-models in many underclass communities. These black and brown youth--like all  young people--are impulse driven because their brains are still developing. Unemployment rates are high; there is boredom, American society devalues black youth; they just want validation and attention by any means available.

In total flash mob black youth mob violence culture is one born of a decision rule which suggests that if you leave your pocketbook or wallet out on the kitchen table then you are asking to be robbed. There is no moral culpability because the victim should always protect him or herself. Funny thing, the gangster capitalists who destroyed this country practice the same ethic...but I digress.

A second observation: when an innocent member of Joe Q. Public puts one of these knuckleheads in the ground, grandma always manages to cry and paint the portrait of a saint when she damn well knew they were social parasites.The wages of sin are death. Must we still circle the wagons in order to protect the lowest of our communities? Are we Booker T or Du Bois wondering about the prospects for black life under Jim and Jane Crow, in a world where slavery still existed, but just by another name?

Help me understand. Teach me a thing or two. Is my moment of critical self-reflection misplaced? For those of you who teach, write, and share their thoughts with the public, how do you balance these concerns?

I hold myself accountable. As I have passed 1,000 or so posts here on WARN, and I continue to share with a larger audience what we have created here, I will only continue to raise the bar. When someone asks me about mob violence by black youth and When Blacks Attack: The Right-Wing Medias Race War Fantasies, I need a satisfying answer.

Please, do help a brother out. I am afraid that a good interlocutor could slip under my guard and score a knockout punch on this issue. Practice is the only way to prevent that from happening. Spar with me.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
DietCoke

Registered:
Posts: 2,150
Reply with quote  #35 
And another liberal's view of Flaherty - http://www.salon.com/2012/08/13/why_conservatives_obsess_over_flash_mobs_and_race_riots/

One must really wonder if all this discussion would be going on if our current President was white.  100% white.  Yeah, I'm pulling the race card.  But so did you.

Why conservatives obsess over flash mobs and “race riots”

How and why the right suddenly became very, very frightened of black people


Why conservatives obsess over flash mobs and (Credit: Shutterstock/Salon)

We get a lot of unsolicited bat$hit racist email here at Salon HQ, as pretty much all media outlets do, but this one — which went to just about everyone on staff in one form or another — was a good example of not really crafting a message that will convince or appeal to your chosen audience:

Hi Alex,

Thomas Sowell says he did not know how bad racial violence really was until he read “White Girl Bleed a Lot: The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It.

From today’s National Review:

“Reading Colin Flaherty’s book made painfully clear to me that the magnitude of this problem is greater than I had discovered from my own research. He documents both the race riots and the media and political evasions in dozens of cities across America.”

A good recent example of this is from a few weeks ago: The Fourth of July.

Flaherty documents 11 episodes of racial violence from the Fourth of July in Greensboro, Philadelphia, Chicago, Waco, Florida, Georgia, Peoria, Los Angeles, Cleveland and Columbus.

All in one day. There’a a lot more.

Sound like a story?

(That was an email from “Dan Auld.” An identical email from “Margie Warren” was sent to our Laura Miller. Let’s assume both are Colin Flaherty.)

Anyway, sure, it sounds like a story, but not quite the story “Dan” pitched. (Eleven incidents in one day! On one day when nearly everyone in America didn’t have to work or attend school! Eleven separate incidents in a country of 300 million people!) It’s actually the story of how and why the right suddenly became very, very frightened of black people.

So, this Flaherty guy is pretty sure that there’s a black crime wave going on, and also that there is a conspiracy — by the media and the police — to cover up this crime wave by not always pointing out when the perpetrators of crimes are black. His evidence? YouTube clips and newspaper comment sections, mostly. The book seems to be a collection of literally every single crime Flaherty could find, over the last few years, involving black perpetrators and white victims (though some involve incidents where the victims were black, and in many incidents the “victim” was property owned by white people), plus a lot of material on roving, rampaging gangs of black teenagers. Exciting stuff! Look, Thomas Sowell loved it, because it shows how dangerously close we are to an actual racial civil war:



In the middle of the 20th century, Sri Lanka had a level of mutual respect and even friendship between its majority and minority communities that was rightly held up to the world as a model. Yet this situation degenerated over the years into polarization and violence that escalated into a civil war that lasted for decades, with unspeakable atrocities on both sides.

All it took were clever demagogues and gullible followers. We already have both. What it will take to nip in the bud the small but widely spreading race riots will be some serious leadership in many quarters and that rarest of all things in politics, honesty.

Race hustlers and mob inciters like Al Sharpton represent such polarizing forces in America today. Yet Sharpton has become a White House adviser, and Attorney General Eric Holder has been photographed literally embracing him.

I’ve never been entirely clear on the definition of the right-wing epithet “race hustler” (it usually seems to mean “a black person who talks about racism”), but I’d figure a person writing a silly book designed solely to scare white people would qualify.

So here’s the thing: If you look for every example of crimes committed by black people in every American city over the last three to five years, you’ll find enough examples to make it sound like a lot of crime, because America is a violent country with a lot of crime, a lot of poverty and a lot of impoverished minority neighborhoods located conveniently close to much wealthier white neighborhoods (and business districts where everything is also owned by white people).

But this epidemic of racial crime isn’t an epidemic. It’s barely a blip. According to the FBI, there were 575 crimes motivated by anti-white bias in 2010, nationwide. There were 545 anti-white crimes in 2009 and 716 in 2008. There were more than 2,000 crimes motivated by anti-black bias in each one of those years. Of course, the book insinuates that all black-on-white crime is racially motivated, but even by that standard things are looking pretty rosy in America right now.

The violent crime rate has been plummeting since its peak in the early 1990s, which now looks like the crest of one of America’s periodic (and slightly mysterious) waves of violent crime. (In the long term, the homicide rate has been steadily falling for hundreds of years. We are genuinely much more civilized now than we used to be.) Back when this country actually had race riots, and not just large gangs of kids briefly fighting and scaring white people on summer nights, there were … actual race riots, motivated by racial tensions. It’s absurd to imagine a secret pandemic of black-on-white violence motivated by anti-white racism that the media and all of our law enforcement agencies conspire to keep secret for reasons of political correctness. There would have to be hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of crimes that no one is reporting in order for the current violent crime rate to come close to matching what it was a generation ago. There can’t be an epidemic of black crime that coincides with the least amount of total crime in America since the 1960s.

The point, of course, isn’t to make an argument supported by statistics. It’s to marshal all available anecdotal data to support the paranoid white conservatives’ gut feeling that this country is on the brink of Charlie Manson’s Helter Skelter.

(Sometimes the need to prove the wanton criminality of blacks leads right-wing outlets to have to pretend to care about other frequently marginalized groups. But it’s a bit difficult for World Net Daily, whose editors put distracting and hilarious scare quotes around every example of the word “gay” in Flaherty’s column on black-on-gay violence.)

“Flash mobs” are reported on extensively, because they’re novel and can be used to stoke fears of young people and the Internet. The media, of course, have absolutely no clue what they’re reporting on. The press always claims (probably based on police statements) that teens are summoned “on Twitter” or “with social media” for the purposes of spreading chaos; in Philadelphia, at least, more than one “mob” was actually a crowd of people attempting to see a dance crew. Other “mobs” are parties that get out of hand. Which is a thing that’s been happening as long as there have been parties. Of course some of the mobs are genuinely mobs of youths looking to wreck and steal $hit — this has been going on since America invented teenagers and gave many of them no legitimate means of access to privileged society and no constructive outlets for their aggressive tendencies. (Regardless of creed or color, teenagers are basically sociopaths and should be avoided at all costs.)

In addition to having decided to make racial fear-mongering his profession, Flaherty’s also a sloppy aggregator. He gets wrong the simple details of the stories he’s abusing to make his argument, and he also seems to invent facts from thin air. Some examples from his column on a series of random incidents in Minneapolis, which became a chapter of his silly book: A woman who was badly beaten by a group of teenage girls is said to have been attacked by “a gang of 20 black women.” The number of attackers appears nowhere in the linked story. (He also seems to intentionally elide the stated motive for the attack, which wasn’t anti-white animus but a missing pair of sunglasses.) “In September of 2011, a crowd of 1,000 black people rioted through downtown fighting, stealing, destroying property,” he writes. There’s no way of knowing how many people were in the crowd, but it doesn’t look to me like 1,000. In the book he seems to have changed number to 800, though he still has no possible way of counting. (The person who uploaded video of the crowd’s brief marauding wrote of “a few hundred.”) Flaherty says “a group of black people attacked a mobile alcoholic beverage cart in Minneapolis,” but there’s no such thing as “mobile alcoholic beverage carts” in Minneapolis. The thing attacked was a bunch of people on one of those stupid group bicycles with a beer keg. This is all pretty basic stuff, and my folks always taught me that if you’re going to use a bunch of random incidents to try to convince people of the existence of a secret nationwide pandemic of racial violence, it’s best to get the details right.

This belief in an epidemic of black-on-white crime that the press and law enforcement conspire to keep secret is an old one, and crazies have been sending newspapers mimeographed manifestos on the subject for years. It’s a common topic of discussion at white supremacist message boards and in the comments sections of newspapers, which are often indistinguishable from white supremacist newsletters. It was the sort of crap Ron Paul’s famous newsletters would cover, back when he was trying to win the “rednecks” over to the libertarian cause. The sort of people who obsess over this $hit are of course older, white and likely already terrified of America’s urban areas and black neighborhoods. They are also sort of hilarious, in a creepy way: Their primary argument is that they are and you should be constantly petrified, and yet they also think that they are Tough Realists. Here’s a telling passage from a review of Flaherty’s book:

I live not very far from The Loop in St. Louis, site of several recent “Flash Mob” incidents in which whites were indiscriminately attacked by mobs of “disaffected teens.” Thanks to HB218, I can – and do – legally go armed anywhere in the U.S. (except on airplanes and such). But despite this advantage, knowing what’s been occurring on The Loop, I would not go there, especially at night, unless I had a light infantry company with me. A pistol is fine against a handful of attackers … but dozens? Hundreds? Then there’s the beef you’d have with the authorities for popping some miscreant, especially a black one. Sorry, Loop. You ain’t worth the trouble.

In other words, we have a bunch of pants-$hitting cowards who think (and sometimes arm themselves like) they’re Dirty Harry.

What’s changed since the days when Ron Paul was profiting from fear-mongering is that as soon as Barack Obama was inaugurated, this gutter-right meme started popping up in the conservative mainstream. This is largely thanks to the shamelessness of Matt Drudge, whose Drudge Report semi-regularly becomes a clearinghouse for every single example of violence committed by young black people than he can find. From Drudge, the obsession with scary black people moved to Rush Limbaugh, who connected it directly to Obama. It’s now a common trope at the Daily Caller, on “The O’Reilly Factor” and in the syndicated columns of (black) conservative “scholar” Thomas Sowell.

“White Girl Bleed a Lot” is a dumb, self-published book by a guy no one’s ever heard of, but he’s made himself an expert on one of the right wing’s favorite, and currently most useful, myths. With people like Sowell promoting him, Flaherty might soon find himself moving up in the right-wing media world. Unless a flash mob gets to him, obviously.


__________________
“If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 22,683
Reply with quote  #36 
Where did I pull the race card?  If there is a problem of white mobs in this country I want to know about it also.

joisey, I get your point but I ask what came first the chicken or the egg?  I hardly ever miss a passive aggressive remark, I guess that is a flaw of mine.  Also, the intervention does not have to be by federal troops, a governor of a state also has a duty to protect his citizens and that is where a State's National Guard would be called.

Some of you are doing everything possible to avoid the subject matter.  mikec, says "I am not under anyone's influence, hiding, dumbfounded, or anything of the like."  Yes you are

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 22,683
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke
And another liberal's view of Flaherty - http://www.salon.com/2012/08/13/why_conservatives_obsess_over_flash_mobs_and_race_riots/

One must really wonder if all this discussion would be going on if our current President was white.  100% white.  Yeah, I'm pulling the racist card.  But so did you.

Why conservatives obsess over flash mobs and “race riots”

How and why the right suddenly became very, very frightened of black people


Why conservatives obsess over flash mobs and (Credit: Shutterstock/Salon)

We get a lot of unsolicited bat$hit racist email here at Salon HQ, as pretty much all media outlets do, but this one — which went to just about everyone on staff in one form or another — was a good example of not really crafting a message that will convince or appeal to your chosen audience:

Hi Alex,

Thomas Sowell says he did not know how bad racial violence really was until he read “White Girl Bleed a Lot: The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It.

From today’s National Review:

“Reading Colin Flaherty’s book made painfully clear to me that the magnitude of this problem is greater than I had discovered from my own research. He documents both the race riots and the media and political evasions in dozens of cities across America.”

A good recent example of this is from a few weeks ago: The Fourth of July.

Flaherty documents 11 episodes of racial violence from the Fourth of July in Greensboro, Philadelphia, Chicago, Waco, Florida, Georgia, Peoria, Los Angeles, Cleveland and Columbus.

All in one day. There’a a lot more.

Sound like a story?

(That was an email from “Dan Auld.” An identical email from “Margie Warren” was sent to our Laura Miller. Let’s assume both are Colin Flaherty.)

Anyway, sure, it sounds like a story, but not quite the story “Dan” pitched. (Eleven incidents in one day! On one day when nearly everyone in America didn’t have to work or attend school! Eleven separate incidents in a country of 300 million people!) It’s actually the story of how and why the right suddenly became very, very frightened of black people.

So, this Flaherty guy is pretty sure that there’s a black crime wave going on, and also that there is a conspiracy — by the media and the police — to cover up this crime wave by not always pointing out when the perpetrators of crimes are black. His evidence? YouTube clips and newspaper comment sections, mostly. The book seems to be a collection of literally every single crime Flaherty could find, over the last few years, involving black perpetrators and white victims (though some involve incidents where the victims were black, and in many incidents the “victim” was property owned by white people), plus a lot of material on roving, rampaging gangs of black teenagers. Exciting stuff! Look, Thomas Sowell loved it, because it shows how dangerously close we are to an actual racial civil war:



In the middle of the 20th century, Sri Lanka had a level of mutual respect and even friendship between its majority and minority communities that was rightly held up to the world as a model. Yet this situation degenerated over the years into polarization and violence that escalated into a civil war that lasted for decades, with unspeakable atrocities on both sides.

All it took were clever demagogues and gullible followers. We already have both. What it will take to nip in the bud the small but widely spreading race riots will be some serious leadership in many quarters and that rarest of all things in politics, honesty.

Race hustlers and mob inciters like Al Sharpton represent such polarizing forces in America today. Yet Sharpton has become a White House adviser, and Attorney General Eric Holder has been photographed literally embracing him.

I’ve never been entirely clear on the definition of the right-wing epithet “race hustler” (it usually seems to mean “a black person who talks about racism”), but I’d figure a person writing a silly book designed solely to scare white people would qualify.

So here’s the thing: If you look for every example of crimes committed by black people in every American city over the last three to five years, you’ll find enough examples to make it sound like a lot of crime, because America is a violent country with a lot of crime, a lot of poverty and a lot of impoverished minority neighborhoods located conveniently close to much wealthier white neighborhoods (and business districts where everything is also owned by white people).

But this epidemic of racial crime isn’t an epidemic. It’s barely a blip. According to the FBI, there were 575 crimes motivated by anti-white bias in 2010, nationwide. There were 545 anti-white crimes in 2009 and 716 in 2008. There were more than 2,000 crimes motivated by anti-black bias in each one of those years. Of course, the book insinuates that all black-on-white crime is racially motivated, but even by that standard things are looking pretty rosy in America right now.

The violent crime rate has been plummeting since its peak in the early 1990s, which now looks like the crest of one of America’s periodic (and slightly mysterious) waves of violent crime. (In the long term, the homicide rate has been steadily falling for hundreds of years. We are genuinely much more civilized now than we used to be.) Back when this country actually had race riots, and not just large gangs of kids briefly fighting and scaring white people on summer nights, there were … actual race riots, motivated by racial tensions. It’s absurd to imagine a secret pandemic of black-on-white violence motivated by anti-white racism that the media and all of our law enforcement agencies conspire to keep secret for reasons of political correctness. There would have to be hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of crimes that no one is reporting in order for the current violent crime rate to come close to matching what it was a generation ago. There can’t be an epidemic of black crime that coincides with the least amount of total crime in America since the 1960s.

The point, of course, isn’t to make an argument supported by statistics. It’s to marshal all available anecdotal data to support the paranoid white conservatives’ gut feeling that this country is on the brink of Charlie Manson’s Helter Skelter.

(Sometimes the need to prove the wanton criminality of blacks leads right-wing outlets to have to pretend to care about other frequently marginalized groups. But it’s a bit difficult for World Net Daily, whose editors put distracting and hilarious scare quotes around every example of the word “gay” in Flaherty’s column on black-on-gay violence.)

“Flash mobs” are reported on extensively, because they’re novel and can be used to stoke fears of young people and the Internet. The media, of course, have absolutely no clue what they’re reporting on. The press always claims (probably based on police statements) that teens are summoned “on Twitter” or “with social media” for the purposes of spreading chaos; in Philadelphia, at least, more than one “mob” was actually a crowd of people attempting to see a dance crew. Other “mobs” are parties that get out of hand. Which is a thing that’s been happening as long as there have been parties. Of course some of the mobs are genuinely mobs of youths looking to wreck and steal $hit — this has been going on since America invented teenagers and gave many of them no legitimate means of access to privileged society and no constructive outlets for their aggressive tendencies. (Regardless of creed or color, teenagers are basically sociopaths and should be avoided at all costs.)

In addition to having decided to make racial fear-mongering his profession, Flaherty’s also a sloppy aggregator. He gets wrong the simple details of the stories he’s abusing to make his argument, and he also seems to invent facts from thin air. Some examples from his column on a series of random incidents in Minneapolis, which became a chapter of his silly book: A woman who was badly beaten by a group of teenage girls is said to have been attacked by “a gang of 20 black women.” The number of attackers appears nowhere in the linked story. (He also seems to intentionally elide the stated motive for the attack, which wasn’t anti-white animus but a missing pair of sunglasses.) “In September of 2011, a crowd of 1,000 black people rioted through downtown fighting, stealing, destroying property,” he writes. There’s no way of knowing how many people were in the crowd, but it doesn’t look to me like 1,000. In the book he seems to have changed number to 800, though he still has no possible way of counting. (The person who uploaded video of the crowd’s brief marauding wrote of “a few hundred.”) Flaherty says “a group of black people attacked a mobile alcoholic beverage cart in Minneapolis,” but there’s no such thing as “mobile alcoholic beverage carts” in Minneapolis. The thing attacked was a bunch of people on one of those stupid group bicycles with a beer keg. This is all pretty basic stuff, and my folks always taught me that if you’re going to use a bunch of random incidents to try to convince people of the existence of a secret nationwide pandemic of racial violence, it’s best to get the details right.

This belief in an epidemic of black-on-white crime that the press and law enforcement conspire to keep secret is an old one, and crazies have been sending newspapers mimeographed manifestos on the subject for years. It’s a common topic of discussion at white supremacist message boards and in the comments sections of newspapers, which are often indistinguishable from white supremacist newsletters. It was the sort of crap Ron Paul’s famous newsletters would cover, back when he was trying to win the “rednecks” over to the libertarian cause. The sort of people who obsess over this $hit are of course older, white and likely already terrified of America’s urban areas and black neighborhoods. They are also sort of hilarious, in a creepy way: Their primary argument is that they are and you should be constantly petrified, and yet they also think that they are Tough Realists. Here’s a telling passage from a review of Flaherty’s book:

I live not very far from The Loop in St. Louis, site of several recent “Flash Mob” incidents in which whites were indiscriminately attacked by mobs of “disaffected teens.” Thanks to HB218, I can – and do – legally go armed anywhere in the U.S. (except on airplanes and such). But despite this advantage, knowing what’s been occurring on The Loop, I would not go there, especially at night, unless I had a light infantry company with me. A pistol is fine against a handful of attackers … but dozens? Hundreds? Then there’s the beef you’d have with the authorities for popping some miscreant, especially a black one. Sorry, Loop. You ain’t worth the trouble.

In other words, we have a bunch of pants-$hitting cowards who think (and sometimes arm themselves like) they’re Dirty Harry.

What’s changed since the days when Ron Paul was profiting from fear-mongering is that as soon as Barack Obama was inaugurated, this gutter-right meme started popping up in the conservative mainstream. This is largely thanks to the shamelessness of Matt Drudge, whose Drudge Report semi-regularly becomes a clearinghouse for every single example of violence committed by young black people than he can find. From Drudge, the obsession with scary black people moved to Rush Limbaugh, who connected it directly to Obama. It’s now a common trope at the Daily Caller, on “The O’Reilly Factor” and in the syndicated columns of (black) conservative “scholar” Thomas Sowell.

“White Girl Bleed a Lot” is a dumb, self-published book by a guy no one’s ever heard of, but he’s made himself an expert on one of the right wing’s favorite, and currently most useful, myths. With people like Sowell promoting him, Flaherty might soon find himself moving up in the right-wing media world. Unless a flash mob gets to him, obviously.



That whole article and the author never answered his/her own question?   deny, deny, deny

The bold print from your article above about St. Louis is EXACTLY as described recently by CoachB25.  You think he was exaggerating or fibbing about St. Louis??

DC says "One must really wonder if all this discussion would be going on if our current President was white.  100% white."  That sounds so deweyish of you

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"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #38 
real - Look, there is, and has been for a while, a problem with racial violence (Newark riots)  or simply a matter of violence or illegal activity spawned in the inner city by economic and social reasons.  Mostly black and brown people are caught in this arena.  Some of these young people revolt in mob ways that are anathema to any laws existing in our nation.  In this thread there is a discussion not of whether there is a problem, but rather the degree of the problem.  Is it as bad as "White Woman Bleed" or not?  Yet no one denies the existence of the problem - only whether it is a cause celibre leaped upon by political conservatives to further their cause, especially their "Democrats buy votes with welfare in the inner city" mantra.  

From what I've experienced and what I've read here, my conclusions are
1.  There is an inner city problem that usually involves black or brown people and it sometimes turns violent.
2.  The degree of that problem falls somewhere between those who accept "White Woman" at face value and those who see the work as a concocted and over blown work that serves the conservative purpose but does not address the claim honestly.

Frank

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #39 
joisey, forget "white women bleed" for a moment.  I had never 'heard' of, nor seen discussion of that book until last night.  It is a year old book.  I feel the book combines every aspect of what we had been talking about on several other threads and that is why I mentioned it. 

You enlightened us [me at least] on the murdered Australian on a gun control thread.  We had a discussion on the 3 black kids on the bus, later in the thread the discussion seemed to evolve into another attack on the messenger.  Earlier this week the 88 YO WWII vet was beaten to death.  Yesterday on the news I heard about the federal DHS employee and his racist website.  I used this thread after some reading to tie all of those incidents together.  I DID NOT base my initial discussion on "white woman bleed".  It was just another tool used in my premise.

I have mentioned a few times over my last 2-3 years here that there were racial tensions boiling just under the surface.  No one agreed with me on the premise and that is why I said many are timid, dumbfounded or ignorant of the phenomenon.  dewey is the one who adamantly denied it every time I brought the subject up.  Until the last week of actual occurrences and my further reading on the subject did I feel strongly enough to pen a thread dedicated to the issue.  I will not mention the book again until I read it for myself.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


I have mentioned a few times over my last 2-3 years here that there were racial tensions boiling just under the surface.   dewey is the one who adamantly denied it every time I brought the subject up. 


Kiir - I have no idea what you are talking about.  I sure wish you could make a post without inserting my handle inside.  You know very well I've chosen to avoid you entirely due to how disrespectful and rude you are.  I talk politics inside here and don't recall any sifnificant debate with you over racial tensions boiling over.  If you're equating this conclusion with my dismissing talk of a civil war pending in this Country, then you were totally confused. 

As for race, I did join in on the different perspectives in the Trayvon Martin thread and I responded to mikec in another thread when he said only one side is trying to harm race relations.  Additionally, I've agreed with bhblue that it's unfair to generalize that anyone who criticizes Obama does it because he is black, while at the same time saying anyone who thinks none of this birth certificate/muslim/hates whites/worst ever talk about our President is related to the fact he is black is disingenuous.  You can link our deep discussions over racial tensions if you want to prove me wrong but, beyond that, your obsession with my handle, calling me a woman, mocking my visits with my family, is bordering on creepy.   

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #41 
No dewey, I am not linking anything for you.  I don't need to, my memory works just fine


dewey says,

Quote:
while at the same time saying anyone who thinks none of this birth certificate/muslim/hates whites/worst ever talk about our President is related to the fact he is black is disingenuous.


That's why I started a Hillary thread, to spread the wealth.  Again, look who brought up obama. LOL

Now quit stalking me and stick to the subject, do you have anything to add to the subject matter while you are here?

edit:  pabar, I hope you had time to read my PM before dewey's post

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #42 
Real - How about we get off the personal BS and attempt to give our input on a question - "Is there a significant black gang (mob) mentality afoot in our urban areas that is significant enough for us as a nation to address as a national and urban problem".  I suggest that there has been for many years and still is (I also think that the book in question is an exaggeration of the problem, but that doesn't mean that there is no problem) , and moreso that the reasons for the problem still exist as much as they always did. To solve a problem, first find out what the problem really is and address the fallout.      Frank
PS - No one is stalking you unless there is such a thing as mutual stalking.  You are controversial, you know, and isn't that what you want in stirring up conversation?  As the old Indian adage says, "If you send an arrow, expect that an arrow will come back".  As for no one agreeing with you that there were racial tensions boiling under the surface, I simply cannot believe that unless we have a herd of ostriches here on this thread.  Racial tensions have existed more or less, especially since the promise of Brown vs. Board of Ed of Kansas in 1954 and the success of the Civil Rights movement.  Tell a man he's equal, and he just might want equality.  If, in his mind, he does not get equality, he might resort to violence to express his rage and his disappointment.  I am not saying that his expression is all right, just understandable.   

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #43 
Didn't get personal JG, not on this thread.  To me every thread has a life of it's own and every thread is different.  If one hides behind a reference to a post I make and labels it 'disingenous, blatantly false, deceptive, stretching the truth' or any other such nonsense that they may choose, then I take that as an assault on my person.  That's the way I see it and I am not apologizing for the way I respond to challenges.  Meet force with force? ok, mutual stalking.  I politely asked dewey 8 months ago to steer away from my posts, he denied the opportunity.  I have a problem with him that dates back that long when he did not accept the opportunity.  dewey is a threadkiller, a thread hijacker

As far as the indian and the arrow proverb, that is nothing more than karma in my book. arm thyself

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #44 
real - "arm thyself" - Isn't that what the black mobs in cities are saying?  In Philly one of the "beaters" said, if you remember, "It's not my fault that you don't know how to fight".  So it goes.     Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
To solve a problem, first find out what the problem really is and address the fallout.      Frank


I agree, for one it looked like DC was fighting the premise that there is a problem, attacking the messenger Flaherty.  masare, same ol same ol.  mikec, ehhhh. dewey, deflect.  I only saw you admit it was a problem.  As far as your latest contribution about history of race in America, intellectually that may be fit for a discussion but in reality, I think we need prevention techniques NOW, not later.  As you see from this thread and the intellectuals, including chaunceydevega, Thomas Sowell, you have to first admit that a problem exists before you can act on it.  No one gets up and marches for something that they think is nonexistent.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #46 
real - A while back, Martin Luther King spoke his amazing "I've got a dream" speech.  Try to walk in the moccasins of a black man and ask yourself if, in his eyes the promise of that dream has been fulfilled, especially the part about character and color of skin. If you were a black man in today's society, what would be your take on the "dream", and if you had decided (correctly or incorrectly) that the dream has not and never will be fulfilled, just how would you react, especially with your apparent personality?     Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
real - "arm thyself" - Isn't that what the black mobs in cities are saying?  In Philly one of the "beaters" said, if you remember, "It's not my fault that you don't know how to fight".  So it goes.     Frank


joisey, I appreciate your participation in trying to get to the heart of the problem but you are making this wayyy too difficult.  I said 'arm thyself' in response to your arrow for an arrow proverb. 

"It's not my fault that you don't know how to fight". It's really not that was a true statement by that assailant.  You have also made many references to the fact that people don't know how to fight one on one, mano y mano, any longer.  When you see 3 to 20 individuals on one victim, it seems like that perception of yours vanished.  Arm thyself could also mean if 3-20 came after me and my wife, that I would be able to have just a tad bit of success while we were getting beat down.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
real - A while back, Martin Luther King spoke his amazing "I've got a dream" speech.  Try to walk in the moccasins of a black man and ask yourself if, in his eyes the promise of that dream has been fulfilled, especially the part about character and color of skin. If you were a black man in today's society, what would be your take on the "dream", and if you had decided (correctly or incorrectly) that the dream has not and never will be fulfilled, just how would you react, especially with your apparent personality?     Frank


do the videos look those folks have been listening to too much of MLK's peaceful society?  not chasing the dog's tail joisey, sorry

I see a problem and if I thought walking in a black mans' moccasins would help, I would.  I also have friends of color, as I have mentioned in other threads, they do not hold themselves up to be victims of society.  As long as you promulgate the victim mentality, you will ensure it's long and useful life.  These people who have been beaten by the mobs are victims also.  Walk in their moccasins

joisey, many of those videos either referenced or actually showed older Americans getting brutalized in the rush of the mobs.  I can only imagine if it was you, friends of yours or my parents who were trampled and/or beaten by the running of the bulls.  You think they would let you off the hook because of your sympathetic views concerning their plight? 

Sounds like you and the rest of you are coming at me because of what you see "especially with [my] apparent personality".  That's ok, I can handle the dig, it's more of a survivalist mentality I have where I have eaten enough crap in my life.  At least I am aware of the problem, God help me live as long as you have.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #49 
This thread is a perfect example of why this conversation isn't being had - it immediately denigrates along tried and true political fault lines. The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in the middle, but as a society, America can't find that middle.

We can agree that violent crime is a problem, and that poverty is a problem, and probably agree that poverty breeds violent crime. The real issue, and a primary reason we can't have the conversation, is that no one has a real world solution beyond what I call "isolation." We isolate poverty in communities, and try to contain the resultant crime within that community. We placate those communities with welfare, in the theory that as long as there is food and shelter, crime will be minimized, and remain within those communities. To some extent, this seems to be working.

But not really. It "seems" to be working, only because it is isolated. While crime is epidemic within these communities, it seldom crosses over into the larger society. Thus it seldom gets much mention in the mainstream media and America goes about it's business. We have come to accept that there are isolated pockets in our society where poverty and crime are a way of life. Those who can "get out" do, those who can't get out either manage a decent life within the community, or become part of the cycle of violence. Many of those who fall into the cycle eventually emerge as adults and lead a decent life, the others end up part of the prison system, or dead.

So within these isolated communities, there is a subset (if you will) largely comprised of young males, commonly known as "gangs," that are integral to, and often dominate, their community. In dealing with these gangs, we end up back on square one - the political division of competing ideologies which has resulted in a series of efforts known, unfortunately, as "Wars." We have a War on Gangs, a War on Drugs, a War on Poverty, and Wars on who knows what else.

What do we have to show for all these wars we wage within our society? An argument can be made both ways, good and bad, and there is plenty of anecdotal, and even statistical, evidence to support both sides of the argument. There seems to be an ebb and flow at work - two steps forward and one step back. If we are in fact taking one step back right now, that should come as little surprise, given the economic challenges we are facing, where of course the debate breaks along political fault lines.

It all ends up on political leadership, which is a by product of civic responsibility. We will have the leadership we deserve, and if that leadership is failing us, we are failing ourselves if we don't hold them accountable. As with everything, you get the bad with the good, and lately we've had more bad than we've had good. At other points in our history we've had strong principled leadership and the country has fared better, but it's always been a struggle. Our present predicament doesn't fall wholly on the present administration. To be sure, it goes back decades.

But the present administration is the only one that is accountable today. The greatest challenge for any President is can he/she present a vision for the country that unites the people toward a common goal. We each have to judge for ourselves whether or not that is happening in America today, and decide whether the status quo in Washington is acceptable, or is it time for a tectonic change?

Nothing short of a massive upheaval will change our course. That appeared to be the idea that brought the present leadership into office, but I question whether much has changed at all. As Frank laments, and I agree, we are stuck in Washington Way, which is certainly a one step back phase of the ebb and flow, and the subject of this thread is borne of that. That present conditions even warrant such a thread indicates that our democracy has a lot of work to do, and until each of us accepts our civic responsibity to hold our leaders accountable, we will continue down this path. The isolation of the "out-of-sight out-of-.mind" contract we have accepted as a solution to poverty and crime is an embarrassment to us all. If in fact this violence is escaping into our wider society, then by all means bring it. In today's America, there isn't another way we will have the conversation. Bring it and all it's ugliness out on the table, and find leaders who are willing, and capable, of finding answers. Until we confront it, it's not going away. The sooner we have this conversation, with all it's extremism and anecdotes and manipulated statistics, the sooner we will defeat it. Hiding it is not an acceptable solution, it is failure.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #50 
I want to say that we are all descendants of apes and Neanderthals.  That is not even open to discussion for me.  We have evolved from the earth itself.  We had no reasoning skills or abilities to reason with probably the exception of thirst, hunger and shelter.  Thankfully we evolved, look at the people of Europe during the Middle Ages, look how many have been killed in 'Holy Wars'.  We have come very far in the evolution cycle.

My family came from Europe AFTER slavery, they had no direct ties to that terrible chapter in U.S. History.  I am sorry for what the descendants of today's blacks suffered through in this country.  It was shameful.  I will not subject myself or my family to people who want me punished for the actions of the same people who ran off and killed the native American Indians in this country.  Find someone else to blame.  My Grandfather's people came here in the late 1800's from Germany, he was born in 1909.  [The Jews can't blame me for Hitler either]

edit: sorry I walked on your post FIB, I need to go and wanted that said.

Quote:
That present conditions even warrant such a thread indicates that our democracy has a lot of work to do, and until each of us accepts our civic responsibity to hold our leaders accountable, we will continue down this path. The isolation of the "out-of-sight out-of-.mind" contract we have accepted as a solution to poverty and crime is an embarrassment to us all. If in fact this violence is escaping into our wider society, then by all means bring it. In today's America, there isn't another way we will have the conversation. Bring it and all it's ugliness out on the table, and find leaders who are willing, and capable, of finding answers. Until we confront it, it's not going away. The sooner we have this conversation, with all it's extremism and anecdotes and manipulated statistics, the sooner we will defeat it. Hiding it is not an acceptable solution, it is failure.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #51 
OK, for what it's worth - my take on race relations in the USA.  I do not propose to be an expert, just an educated and interested person.  I am caucasian and over 80 years old - just to give you a perspective source. When I was in high school - late 1040's, I knew and liked quite a few persons of color.  I had been brought up in a house where color was addressed only once when my Dad said "Wait till one of them takes your job".  Nothing personal beyond that. The guys in the locker room kidded me about a light skinned girl who had a crush on me.  I thought she was beautiful, but dating her never entered my mind.  She was a negro.  
She later became the homecoming beauty queen at University of Pittsburgh.  I didn't know who drew that line or why, but I knew that it was there.

In 1863 Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation.  That theoretically freed the black slaves, but Jim Crow was on the horizon, especially in the South. He said that separate but theoretically equal was equal. That denied equality.   The society said otherwise as black people groveled to the white masses, but that was expected.

In 1954, after our black army and our white army fought separately in WW2, Separate but equal was declared not equal.  Our nation moved closer to a concept that had crept up on us, that black people were not only people, but equal people, at least under the law.  

The Civil Rights movements that followed, earned in blood and sacrifice by both whites and blacks, furthered the concept of equality.  The idea that a man might be some day judged by his talent, his character, his value as a human being, was urged in a speech by a man who was assassinated by those who simply could not understand the idea as they derived from a plantation concept.  However, Afro American people all over the nation heard the message and looked forward to the equality time.  Some took a tangent into the "black is beautiful" movement.  The promise of equality still sat as a carrot before a hungry horse. Some people of color gained through their mettle and the doors opened to them.  Others found those same doors still closed.

In the inner city, where many blacks fled to seek "equality" through jobs, little of the legal equality aspect of our society fed them, either physically or psychologically.  Some escaped to the suburbs.  Many remained to experience through recidivism any means to put bread on the table.  Time, in an age of "equality" marched on.  

Gotta eat - more later.     Frank

 


 

 

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #52 
JG you play the black victimization card well.  almost as well as Obama, Sharpton, and Jackson.  In the cities I do think there is a mob mentality, but that has been around for a while.  But, IMHO, with Obamas victimization and entitlement peddling, this has given blacks a mentality( which was capped with all the crap of the trayvon martin case) that precipitates more racial tension and violence.  Holder did not help this either letting the black panthers off for blatant voter intimidation at that precinct( for which they basically had been found guilty, but when he came in he let the off).  

Statistics show Reagan did more for black poverty and net worth and income than as been done since.  Regan helped the country flourish with conservative fiscal policies. Blacks need job oportunity in particular, and Obama has been one of the worst if not the worst in history.    Family income has dropped twice as much during his so called recovery as it did during the so called Bush recession.  Thats pretty pathetic.  And if it did that to the average family you can imagine what its done to the average black family.Race baiting and liberal ideology has hurt the black community immensely for decades now and a liberal Louisiana senater who recently changed parties has spoken of this very well.  He understands blacks have to step up to the plate and take responsibilty for themselves and their plight just like everyone else and basic things like learning how to talk discernably etc..and understanding it takes work, but if you work, it usually does payoff, just like for everyone else.

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Susan
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #53 
kiir - no problem, you didn't walk on my post. 

I didn't intend to create the impression that apologies are in order, on any front, especially for the past. All we have is the present, and let's face it - we can do better.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #54 
Susan - Points well taken.  If one merely wants to assess blame or play politics with a human situation, you've done a good job.  I also agree that inner city poor folks have an obligation to step up to the plate, if they can find just where the plate is amid subterranean cultural horizons.  I would love to see a generation there that teaches their young the meaning (a personal value) of pride in work that most people take for granted in our nation.  Otherwise, as some point out, why put forth effort when one can collect from welfare almost as much as from wages (economic, not personal value)?  Before I hang it up, one other point.

Having been given the promise of equality in 1954, and not having achieved it in 58 years (for whatever reason though "things" are getting much better), many inner city youth are outraged and perhaps that is one of the reasons for turmoil there. Their answer is counterproductive, not to assimilate into what they see as a white culture, but rather to become more black culturally (language, attitudes, clothing, etc.). Admittedly, that black culture has had an effect on white culture, but not where the jobs are unless one is in the music business.  Then again, maybe they "Gonna make it in the NFL or the NBA".  If that doesn't work out, there's always dealing.  Those mean streets are mean.                                                                                      

I, my sisters, and all our children and their children were born going to college and with those expectations taught to us three generations ago. My Daddy said, "Work hard, son, and take pride in your work, whatever you decide to do for a living. Be a man."  Daddy went to 8th grade, and his Daddy went to fourth.  Maybe that same "miracle" will happen in the inner city all over the USA, and maybe not.          Frank

PS - Reaganomics left our nation in deep debt.  Just had to say that. That was the beginning of the "debt is good" approach to federal finance.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #55 
JG I do believe that was his compromise with the left to get the rest of his agenda passed since the dems owned congress.  Reagan was the last true leader we had and achieved great things when having to compromise.  Liberals leaders today basically are extreme and do not want to compromise.  

I dont want to make this a consevative liberal thing but the facts are the facts.  We have basically followed more of a liberal doctrine with our poverty programs etc... Where has it gotten the black community.  We have record levels of poverty in this country right now.  "I HAVE A DREAM" was about fiscal opportunity for the black community and education to enable the opportunity.  Equality is a false narrative for anyone.  There is never equality for anyone and people must take advantage of of whatever opportunity to lift themselves up.  Until the black leaders start telling the blacks the truth vs using them and until the black people realize they have to take responsibility for themselves things will not change.  The liberal policies only make it harder for them and statistics do show that historically.  Whether you choose to see it or not.  Some black leaders like Cosby and the Louisiana Senator are starting to come forward, but it will not change over night when it doesnt behoove a political party and the propaganda media will loose power too.

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Susan
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #56 
JG you can call it assessing blame or whatever you want.  But we do have historical examples of what has worked better, but we choose to ignore those because it may not be politically and power wise expedient.  Look where that has gotten the poor and the minorities.  To figure a solution you have to assess what has worked and not worked.  We do have examples.  And it isnt big govt monopolizing education and it isnt big govt hand outs that enslave in poverty.
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Susan
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #57 
Susan - My view is really simplistic.  I have lived my life among black people, mostly white people (I am caucasian), a few Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, Aluets, gays, males, and females.  In my judgement I have found, in EACH of these groups, people I judge to be good human beings and people I judge to be lousy human beings.  This judgement, I realize, is by my standards and values and is influenced heavily by my own experiences, but I find myself, though recognizing differences of all sorts among the groups, viewing mankind more and more as I age, through the same frame of reference, and that is the overall view of the human predicament. This is not a new nor unique idea. 

"If a clod of earth shall fall into the sea, then Europe is the lesser . . . any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind, so never send to ask for whom the bell tolls.  It tolls for thee".  Good stuff I think.      Frank

PS - Nice exchange of ideas - thanks.  

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #58 
We can get all in the weeds if you want but there sre examples.  Charter school were helping blacks in DC.  What was one of the first things that Obama undid, because it wasnt politically expedient.  He undid charter schools in DC  and then promptly put his kids in a ritzy private school.  Clintons welfare reform was helping.  He has undone the backbone of it because of political empowerment.  There are basic examples from both sides of things that have helped the poor and minorities but politics has tended to supercede and the manipulation there of.  Facts get beyond the weeds, but it isnt always in some peoples best interests so they like to muddy waters like you just did.
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Susan
masare

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Reply with quote  #59 
KIR as you have stated in past posts...your way of handling difficulty is with your .40...which I guess means a gun? For this reason alone...I would say you are not open to a Frank. big boy discussion about anything? You are just baiting and quoting...but when an honest response emerges you insult (probably while looking at your gun). Sorry if this insults your sense of bravado. I don't mean to do that ...it is just hard to take your attempts at a discussion seriously. I wish you all the best on this glorious Sunday ( beautiful weather here in PA and the Eagles won :-)
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #60 
I believe we should forget the past...I don't believe we are doomed to repeat it.....A falsehood, IMO.....We are doomed if we keep living in the past, though....
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