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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #91 
No, criticisms of the links.  I'll just skip them. 
If you aren't SNOPES(ing) someone or particpating in linkwars then you have as much to offer on a topic as masare.  Cut to the chase.  Are you, yourself, denying we have a problem with gang/mob violence?  If we have a problem should we deal with it?  Are you afraid to drive in major metropolitan areas in this country at night?  If you see 50-100 people looting and rioting in a Wal Mart would you still enter?  If you went to the Iowa State Fair would you expect violence to break out, would you expect to hear chanted "Get Whitey night"?  Do you have video proof that roving gangs of whites or mexicans are roaming the streets of this country to inflict beatings, broken bones or death on inviduals that look different than them?  Please provide those videos/links, plz, plz

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #92 
DC - as I understand it, gun control isn't the topic of this thread.  However, it does sort of go hand in hand with recent violence.

So, unless your intent is to outlaw every gun in the country, your links just show what we all know - people kill people, not guns.

As for Jackson, no he doesn't have to comment on all crime.  However, the biggest hypocrite of them all on this topic, Al Sharpton, should condemn black n white crime as vehemently as he does the reverse.

It is time for him and his generation of racial demagogues to step aside.  Inciting violence to enrich oneself hardly seems reverential.  I will not judge, because that is not my job, but I have to believe that would go against the tenets of one's alleged religion.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #93 
mike you are getting it baby.

This is not a gun thread.  I now know what it is.  It is a mob mentality thread and how to stop it and shine the light on it.  Moral breakdown, total lack of respect in this country [d, I know you hate it when I say that] Talking about more than 1 on 1 crime.  This is not a one on one crime thread, nor a gun thread.  There are plenty of gun threads in this forum.  What I found unbelievable was the numbers in most of these attacks and the mob scenes.  Someone said to the forum that it was just prison and/or gang mentality spilling over into society.  I agree, do we have to accept it?

I asked a question on the "3 vs. 1 on the bus" thread and I got lambasted for asking why it took 3 boys to distribute punishment and brutally attack a 13 YO little white boy?  cause they could?
Then, 3 on 1 in Duncan, OK [Chris Lane], they were bored
then, 2 on 1 *88 YO WWII Vet, [Shorty], cause they could? as joisey said

then, I watched a Pat Buchanan video on the web.  That video led me to others and still others. 
then I came across "White Girl Bleed A Lot"

One thing led to another, I had no "agenda", I had NO idea what was going on.  I am disappointed in myself for not knowing.

Something is going on in this country and we all need to pay attention.  No matter what masare says about my 40, I would rather have it than have blind faith in this country.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #94 
I don't have an answer to this, other than increase police presence.

I was scheduled to fly to DC on vacation on 9/12, and of course that cancelled.  Once they started flying again, they offered us new tickets, which we accepted.  I will admit that it was a bit eerie to be in our nation's capital, with a cop on every corner, and people armed with automatic weapons (dressed like soldiers, which they probably were, but could've been SWAT types) on about every 4th corner.

However, I never felt safer anywhere.  I could've balanced my wallet on my head and walked down the street, and it would have been safe.

This is not martial law, as some have claimed, but it has to be stopped.

A few years ago (maybe 6 or 7), similar problems were occurring in downtown St Petersburg, at a downtown, open air mall.  The mall owners began to tell people to leave (mostly black youths who were wandering around aimlessly).  It caused a pretty significant media backlash, and honestly, private security with walkie-talkies weren't effective anyways.

Eventually, the mayor decided that it was hurting tourism, and the city's reputation, to have these large crowds of youths intimidating tourists coming to downtown.  As such, the police presence was significantly increased, offenders were arrested, and the crowds dispersed.  Now, there aren't as many cops around, but it is much safer to be down there.

Why is this happening?  I won't pretend to know.  Maybe these people are immune from prosecution right now.  Law enforcement has to be part of the answer.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #95 

Race  relations did not get worse---race is just pimped 24/7 by far right and far left media and then the lemmings repeat what they hear like parrots on forums and blogs. We have race injected into everything every day so it seems like race relations are worse but it is just that we hear about it non-stop on tv, radio and forums and throw race at each other like monkeys flinging their crap at each other...and with simular results.

According to FBI a violent crime occurs every 25.3 seconds.
A murder every 35 minutes, a forced rape every 6 minutes, a robbery every minute and an aggravated assault every 40 seconds. Are these in the news? Not unless they can tie in the case to race, religion, sex preference. The night of OKC bombing in okc people rallied around with flags waiving and patriotism was everywhere. Majority were healing and helping out but some were out for revenge and payback. Why? Because the bomber was said to have been middle eastern. I saw "go home sand(n-word)" sprayed on walls middle eastern people were attacked, robbed, and 7-11s vandalized. Day later different scene as the bomber is identified as a white person. wtf? Who we gonna be mad at now? The conversations on tv from political pinheads the day of was about middle eastern people and how violent they are and now with the bomber white they have egg on their face. Race ha nothing to do with that crime.

And look at race politics. The far right cries about Sharpton being a race pimp so what do they do....they race pimp.
They pimp out every case they can find in media of a white killed by blacks. That is race pimping.
The battle cry----Sharpton does 1 so we will point out he doesn't do them all....plus we will spotlight every black on white killing from now on. We will also state every day that more blacks are killed by blacks but we won't mention that the same percentage of whites are killed by whites every year. So white people should fear whites since almost 90% of violent crimes against whites are by other whites AND since whites are 73% of the population and committ 70% of the violent crimes in america (obviously more since they are the majority of the population) a white person should fear whites.

And the stats they throw out are purposedly flawed. For example the percentages do not take into account the majority of the black criminals are repeat offenders. So when a percentage of black crime is given it does not take into account that 3 of the crimes were by the same person not 3 different black people

Like being in a town of 1000 people and 10 of them are black. They have 50 crimes 5 were committed by blacks.  The news media states 50% of the black population in our town committed crimes.  It is a issue in our black community the media says. Wow...50%. Yet all 5 of those crimes were by the same black person and he committed all 5 of those crimes at one time---kidnapping, grand theft auto, robbery, assault, and murder. (Robbed someone, assaulted them and threw them out of the car, kept the girlfriend in the car as a hostage, stole the car, then shot a citizen who pulled their gun to shot him  but didn't drop him and he shot back and killed them...then arrested). So note---the black population is only 1% of the total population in that town so this means majority of crimes are committed by whites. 5 of the 50 crimes were committed by blacks but it was the same black guy (but stats won't show this). Nor will they say 90% of the crimes were committed by whites and in a town of 1000 with only 10 blacks the blacks aren't the ones to worry about. Using national stats a white person in that town is 90% likely to be killed by a white. Yet the fear will be towards blacks.

Race relations aren't worse---we just have 24/7 political driven posts, radio, tv, and chat on facebook etc.
30 years ago these cases aren't national news and there are no smart phones, no tablets, no facebook, no twitter and no msnbc nor fox news (their birth was from the OJ trial). Tv also went off at night and wasn't 24 hours. Only time it was on after 10 was for johnny carson and Saturday night live on weekend.
We have the technology and media now that allows any and everyone to read and respond to any and everything at any and every time of the day on many outlets...so we hear the flavor of the month over and over and over again until the next hot topic replaces it. Race is like guns. School shootings happened often before columbine but those weren't shocking so they weren't in news.

Here is a newsflash...vast majority of violent crimes are same race but several assaults and killings per day will occur with attacker and victim being different races. It just happened to be that way. A person can be against the gay lifestyle, oppose gay marriage daily in their blogs and talk of evils of homosexuality, and go out to the park and beatdown a guy and steal his money. The person just happens to be gay so media says it was because the person was gay. They being to charge it as a hate crime until it is revealed that this person has attacked and robbed people before that weren't gay. This victim just happened to be gay. Nazi Germany killed jews just for being jewish. RIOght and left media try so hard daily to define a crime...how about this.....a crime occurred. A teen attacking an elderly woman newstory does not have to be black teen attacks elderly white woman or white teen attacks elderly black woman. But interracial crime sells and intraracial does not (unless it is a celebrity or public figure).
Race pimping sells. It isn't worse...it just profits those who pimp it on both sides. If you highlight race you are pimping it...otherwise pay respects to those who were killed and less on those who did the killing and their background, family, etc.



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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #96 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke
Some thoughts on helping "disconnected youth" -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chelsea-clinton/reclaiming-americas-youth_b_3466549.html



2nd remark from that article is priceless

Quote:
12:54 PM on 06/24/2013
"America's youth" is the post-natal stage of all US citizens, NOT a special-needs, fringe group, as Chelsea thinks. Typically, her liberal upbringing makes her focus on the underprivileged. As if an entire generation will get stranded - if "America" doesn't give every economic migrant or loser an institutionalized leg-up. Every generation has the same potential, not only the "Millennials" -. It's the policies, NOT the the period, stupid.
Chelsea writes of "developing independence", but also about „implementing effective solutions“ and providing „transition services“. More "services" is surely the least America needs, but rather proper parenting teaching values and virtues, then youth CAN become independent. Her political mind already focuses on treating the symptoms with more „programs“, instead of identifying the source of the problems which were created by wrong government policies in the first place.
Marquis D' Argenson (1694-1757) wrote: „to govern better one needs to govern less“. All G-7 nations need less social engineering and state interventions and rather a true level playing-field for all. A society with less barriers, needs less „help“ in taking them.
Just like her parents were, Chelsea is not interested in the 320 Mill. fellow Americans; but in liberal ideology carried on the backs of the majority. Rather than „challenging America“, she should challenge her own beliefs first and study and read more about WHAT made the US the greatest and most successful nation (especially Alexis De Toqueville and Ayn Rand).

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #97 

Know why majority blacks do not listen to conservative blacks? 90% of blacks vote democrat. Expecting blacks to listen to a black conservative just because he is black is like saying white conservatives should listen to Chris Matthews because he is white. And don't throw successful in mix because rappers are successful AND they speak out on black issues and give back to their communities with time, money, building rec centers and schools, etc. Should white conservative women listen to Rachel maddows beause she is an educated and successful white woman? If the answer is no because she has a different lifestyle and different politics then you see why most blacks do not listen to Allen West or others. Not same lifestyle nor politics and he is not part of black community--just being black does not give your words a s a black person validity if people see you as an outsider. Street cred matters if you want to talk to people on the streets (same as a person talking to drug addicts about kicking the habit has cred if he was once a addict and kicked it). You don't want book smarts only...you want someone that went thru it ( in all walks of life from military, sports, or mechanic, etc.).

 


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #98 
fhoenix, I ain't talking about no race relations unless mob violence is race related.  If it is, well then, quit telling me that race relations haven't gotten worse.  The reasons overall numbers declined, is that the baby boomers are older and with that fact, their large numbers have resulted in less crime of all nature, OVERALL

I want you to tell me with a straight face that what was shown in those videos has ALWAYS gone on in this country.  There was ALWAYS mob violence at the Iowa and the Wisconsin State Fair??  People have ALWAYS been fearful of St. Louis, Missouri??!! People have always been so afraid to venture downtown in Any City, USA!!??

If you haven't seen both those videos and read something about that book "White girl bleeds" mentioned on page 1 then you need to go back and read.  If you don't or won't then you are doing no less than a hijacking.  You have made those same remarks on other threads [that race relations haven't gotten worse], ok I get it.  Plz go watch the videos and then reply as intelligently and as thoroughly as you normally do.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #99 
fhoenix - I might give you this:  a few years back, crimes against gays were the rage in the news, and hence hate crime legislation was born.  Now, the flavor of the day is black victimization, so they publicize that.

The issue is that gays didn't start organizing for retaliation.  I think Sharpton et al create retaliation violence.  I think "the right" as you call them, is trying to point the fact that this administration is much more lenient on the protected classes (which is all minorities in all forms).

Also, you don't see marches of white folks protesting in the streets.  Something is causing that - I submit it's the professional race-baiters, and they should go away.

Just FWIW - I started watching MSNBC on 9/11.  I remember Ashleigh Banfield was on about 20 hours a day, and I watched a good it of it.  I didn't watch hardly any of the OJ trial, unless a show about grass growing in real time wasn't available.
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #100 
you are correct that most blacks don;t listen to their leads.
did you listen to FOX news that 70
% of black children are from single mothers.
so they are the ones that support a black president that gives them money.
as $500 per month per fatherless kids. of course official fathers
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #101 
Quote:
I will admit that it was a bit eerie to be in our nation's capital, with a cop on every corner, and people armed with automatic weapons (dressed like soldiers, which they probably were, but could've been SWAT types) on about every 4th corner.


bring it, if that's what it takes. 

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #102 
Interesting, from the Hoover Institute, on the 50 years since MLK

http://www.hoover.org/publications/defining-ideas/article/154976

"I Have A Nightmare"

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#MakeDCListen #End Socialism #NoDems #2016 #ForAmerica
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #103 
So if Al Sharpton prompts racial violence by highlighting white on black incidents then wouldn't than mean that everyone highlighting black on white violence is doing the same?
Dislike how he operates so do as he does? Be like Al Sharpton because you dislike him?
You don't stop a guy from being a dick by being a dick. It just makes you the same as him.
I saw an article of a elderly man killed by a teenager and it asked where everyone was. Just because the man was white and the attacker was white it isn't news and part of the debate. So we aren't discussing the killings we are discussing the race of attackers and victims.

Every 35 minutes someone is murdered. This means there should be around 2 killings in the news every hour. Except 90% of the time it is white killing white or a black killing a black and no one cares. Only time left and right media will comne together on a killing is if the killer is middle eastern muslim. We aren't discussing race (there are only 2 of us here of color that post regularly and neither of us posts white on black incidents and argue blacks as victims)...we are pointing out the negative incidents of other races. Like if someone were to post child predators and serial killers and how whites are the vast majority of those. Imagine if half the people posting in misc. were black. On my forum years ago it was a lot of ex athletes and half posting were black and 80% of the people were liberal and only a few of us were republican. Opposite of how this forum is which is mostly red and a handful of blue posters. Using libtard would result in being called KKKonservative and conservatard and posting anti-black or anti-gay statements got you called a bigot on a regular basis by many people. I was called oreo. Had to moderate for flaming and insults often. Had 3 moderators for the politics section (which was separate from everything else and if you brought politics into another topic it was deleted by those moderators). No one had a right to be a dick and it was a private forum. They had to be reminded of that when a moderator would edit their post and take out them calling someone else a douche and they would cry about how the republican owner of forum has his goons trying to silence the people. Sound familiar. And you want to talk stereotypes? there were several retired people and some that joined that were on assistance. Mostly women. White women as well as black with more white women on assistance than the black ones--yet all were liberals. And they had all day to be on the forum so you better not be afraid of a long never ending frank Conversation because they were going to be there around the clock arguing with you. They also ask what the right is doing to better blacks, America, race relations, etc... White victimization is not a solution. Griping is not a solution. If griping worked slavery would have ended as soon as it started. House negroes aren't going to get the field negroes to listen either (yes I was called a house negro for the republican party just like blacks republicans do today).

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #104 
Larry Elder took a look back at Al Sharpton's record, and the pseudo-rev doesn't look very good.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1816884/posts

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #105 
I like Larry Elder.
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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #106 
You listed several things that are not a solution, including griping.  Now can you offer solutions?  Sharpton has lied with Tawana Bradley and the Duke Lacrosse team scams.  He cannot be believed because he has an agenda.  That is where it is very much different.  Did I maliciously LIE anywhere in this thread?  You can't see the difference?  He stirs up strife where there is none, I brought to light what I think 20% of this country may have known about.  People I know are amazed.  Is it better NOT to talk about it and maybe it will go away on it's own?  I don't think so.
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #107 
Fhoenix, you say those mobs and assailants will not listen to black conservative leaders, they will only listen to folks with'street cred'. Can you name 5 of the people in that category with'street cred' that out of control mobs would listen to? You sure are spending a lot of time and verbiage telling me that there is no problem and even if there was there is nothing that can be done about it.
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #108 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHammer
did you listen to FOX news that 70
% of black children are from single mothers.
so they are the ones that support a black president that gives them money.
as $500 per month per fatherless kids. of course official fathers


Another take on this -

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/understanding-out-of-wedlock-births-in-black-america/277084/

Understanding Out-of-Wedlock Births in Black America

Revisiting the controversial Moynihan Report
More

I'm still making my way through some of the latest reconsiderations of the Moynihan Report. While doing that I've been thinking a lot about a number you see invoked whenever discussing the state of the black family--70 percent of all births among African-Americans happen out of wedlock. You often see this number invoked to show the moral or cultural decline in the black family:

For African-Americans. That's embarrassing. And you know, in the entire recorded history of the planet, there has never been a greater voluntary abandonment of men from their children than there is today in black America. Never. I mean, when men went off to war, they had to go off to war. That wasn't voluntary. But never as great of voluntary abandonment of children by their fathers than in black America today.

Or like this:

Why don't the NAACP and similar organizations take all the money they use to challenge and complain about the standards that their groups (in the aggregate) don't meet when it comes to university admissions, selective high-school admissions, school discipline, mortgage loans, police and firefighter tests, felon disenfranchisement laws, employment policies that look at criminal records, etc., etc., and use that money to figure out ways to bring down the illegitimacy rates that drive all these other disparities?

Just as often you see it invoked by black people themselves in much the same way. What undergirds all of this is the sense that the black community of today is somehow deficient in a way that the black community of yesteryear was not.

I think its very important to get past the jeremiads and understand why the numbers look the way they do. And given that this is an old beef of mine, I figured I'd go through the numbers again, fool around with some spreadsheets and try to get in touch with my inner Derek Thompson.

One obvious reason that you have a higher percentage of children born out of wedlock in the black community is that the number of unmarried women (mothers or not) has grown a lot, while number of married women has grown only a little. You can see that in the chart above, which I culled from these census numbers. The numbers are by the thousand. Rates.jpg

But while the number of unmarried black women has substantially grown, the actual birthrate (measured by births per 1000) for black women is it the lowest point that its ever documented.*

Birthrate for Black and White Unmarried Women.jpg.jpg

So while a larger number of black women are choosing not to marry, many of those women are also choosing not to bring kids into the world. But there is something else.

Birthrate for Married Women By Race.jpg

As you can see the drop in the birthrate for unmarried black women is mirrored by an even steeper drop among married black women. Indeed, whereas at one point married black women were having more kids than married white women, they are now having less.

I point this out to show that the idea that the idea that, somehow, the black community has fallen into a morass of cultural pathology is convenient nostalgia. There is nothing "immoral" or "pathological" about deciding not to marry. In the glorious black past, women who made that decision were more--not less--likely to become mothers. People who are truly concerned about the percentage of out of wedlock births would do well to hector married black women for moral duty to churn out babies in the manner of their glorious foremothers. But no one would do that. Because it would be absurd.

Theories of cultural decline are irrelevant. Policy not so much. Given the contact rates between the justice system and young black men, and given how that contact affects your employment prospects, the decision by many black women to not marry, and to have less children, strikes me as logical. If we want to change marriage rates, we need to change our policies. Nostalgia is magic. Policy is the hero.


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“The hand of help has no color. The face of caring has no shape. The language of love has no accent.” - Unattributed
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #109 
Interesting stats.  Can you say EDUCATION ???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/single-motherhood-increases-census-report_n_3195455.html

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“The hand of help has no color. The face of caring has no shape. The language of love has no accent.” - Unattributed
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #110 
DC - What type of "EDUCATION" do you mean? We spend more money on education per capita as a nation than just about anyone.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #111 
Education? When do we start? More money huh
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #112 
real - Without restructuring the entire values system of a subculture, I simply don't know if that "education" problem can be attacked or to some degree solved.  I once observed an inner city classroom (sent to observe a teacher for hire) in which 25 bodies sat in 25 desks.  The teacher taught a "set up" lesson, and afterwards I talked with him and noted that as well as that he didn't seem to know the students well, and this was a quarter of the way through the school year. He was a Yale graduate who had come to the inner city to save the world from itself, a rich kid well intentioned and totally ill equipped to deal with the situation.  Our Superintendent hired the kid because he knew his parents through the cocktail party circuit.  Nice kid who left teaching for more lucrative fields after two years with us. His Dad knew a guy who knew a guy who knew the Super.    He admitted that he didn't know the kids well because inner city administration assigned him 40 kids per class knowing that no more than 25 would show up on any given day and that way administration saved money on literal per pupil cost while collecting state funds on actual enrollment.  As I exited the building, through halls that needed a good coat of paint, past the police officers in those hallways, I felt a feeling of hopelessness and despair.  I was brought up with little money in a small railroad town, but had the good fortune of parents who demanded that I at least attend undergraduate school to "make something of myself". "What do you mean you got a 'B' in Latin?  You got 'As' in your other courses, so why not Latin"?  How different from "Stay home today because I need you to watch the young ones while I do some errands".                                                                                         

So I went back to my upper class school district and settled back into a scenario where the students showed up every day, parents had books in their houses and insisted that their offspring read them, where children were born with expectations of at least undergraduate school, where educators were respected and where we sent 94% of our students on to "the four year college of their choice" (some to "Dawtmuth" where Daddy attended and they were a legacy), and where our softball team won state championships - instead of losing 39-0 as most inner city teams did when they came to the "burbs". It was a place where I could spend part time lecturing at university, writing curriculum as part of the National Humanities Faculty, and coach that championship softball team.  Besides, I could run my softball schools for females as a loving hobby. It was a place from which several of my students became millionaires and multimillionaires and most became "professional people".   I knew a good place to be when I saw it. I could actually teach, discuss great ideas, and basically do what I loved to do in an environment that urged me to do so.  I would have been totally frustrated in the inner city. Who beats his head against a wall for little positive reinforcement?  I so admire those who do.   

JFK once said that just because there's a problem, that doesn't mean there's a solution.  Perhaps we just keep on pecking at the problem and hoping that each generation will spawn more and more people who will exit the values system of the sub culture and teach their offspring to do the same, and thus create exodus possibilities that would multiply themselves.  My grandfather went to 4th grade.  My father went to 8th grade.  My sister is a Doctorate who teaches at university.  I am a DWT (doctorate without thesis).  All our children are college graduates.  Colin Powell suggested this approach.  I honestly don't have a solution short of changing the values system of the subculture, and the values of the people who live in and inherit it, in a sense assimilating the sub culture into the general national culture through the home.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink - unless he's thirsty or at least aware that the water is there and it is good for him.      Frank 


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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #113 

The are 2 of us of color here that post regularly (and I am only half like our president). This topic is not sincere and has no actual solution. It is on this forum because far right media responded to Sharpton by being like Sharpton and diverting the conversation of racial apathy by police in Martin case the night of the incident to the number of blacks killed each year by blacks. Basically the far right responded to this by saying "Hey...so what if we kill a few blacks....you kill more of each other). Showing that blacks kill over 90% blacks so there is a black problem.  But hey.... there must also be a white problem since whites are killed by 90% whites? Why fear blacks as a white person when you are 90% likely to be killed by a white.  So fox news, Hannity and Rush highlight the vet being killed by 2 blacks and the Australian in oklahoma that was killed by 2 blacks AND a white (Hannity talked about this and only showed pics of the 2 black teens). What about him? He is uneducated and has same issues as the 2 black teens. So could economic situation, neighborhood, and education mean more to the equation than their race? Nature vs nurture. The majority of celebs and athletes removed from the hood have successful careers, raise a nice family, and are not out there in the streets. From rags to riches. Several celebs and athletes who bottom out end up on drugs, homeless, getting assistance, crimes, etc. From the penthouse to the outhouse.

In last 26 hours 50 people have been murdered in America.
34 were killed by whites. 13 were killed by blacks. 3 were killed by other race or nationality.
31 of the 34 victims killed by whites were white, 2 were black, and 1 was another race or nationality.
12 of the 13 victims killed by blacks were black and 1 was white or another race or nationality.
So the news could cover the 2 blacks killed by whites yesterday or the white killed by blacks yesterday.
Every day we could have interracial and intraracial killings in the news since they happen daily. News can be 24/7 who was just killed and by whom.

Media pulls the strings and people dance. Sandy Hook shooting, Colorado theatre shooting, st. Louis shooting. Sikh temple shooting, college shooting, and the other 20+ mass shootings where someone kills their family. Average 1 of those a month in America. After these happen the media jumps to Gun Control. But someone could mention all these mass killers are white. There must be a white problem. 2 black kids kill a elderly man and 3 kids shoot a jogger......white outrage and demanding "we" discuss this as a problem. Wtf? Didn't the liberals say they wanted a frank discussion about gun control after sandy hook and Colorado theatre shooting? We told them to f-off. The shooters were white and they killed many people in each incident not just one. White shooters kills many kids and far right media is defending guns. Black shooters kill jogger and far right attacks blacks until they find out one of the teens was white. The teens are called thugs. Adama lanza kills 20 kids and 6 adults and he is not called a thug or villified. Why aren't these mass shooters called thugs? What about the fact the sandy hook shooter had an irresponsible mom (she paid for that with her life) and he did not have a family unit. No dad. The Colorado shooter had money, was a Lutheran in church, and as he got older and left the next he was getting prostitutes, living on online porn, and bottomed out of school. Once on his own his upbringing went out the door. Where is the analysis of his family and upbringing? He kills 12 people and the liberals treat him like he is a victim of society and the conservatives are just defend his guns. No one is attacking his race. Person snaps and kills people. The end. Shouldn't that apply to all these cases? The jogger killed is notmore of an issue than gunman walking into sschool, office place, theatre, or grocery store and opening fire on people. Anything can be parroted as an issue with stats to back it up. Tomorrow they can discuss child predators and how it is a white issue since most are white. How do we stop it? What are white leaders doing? Nothing....because there is no solution.

 


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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #114 

The reality---You require a license to drive or carry a gun. You are required to follow the rules and regulations or you are punished. That is the best society can do. We cannot force specific behavior. We punish bad behavior and rule breakers and take away the privilege from those who abuse it....but guess what? Anyone can get into a car and drive illegally. They have to be stopped by law enforcement for a violation to be caught driving without a license. Anyone can steal or borrow a gun or even get one illegally. You do not need permission to break the law. Gun control is basically non-gun owners (and a few liberal gun owners) saying guns are a problem and need more rules. The "black problem" is basicall non-blacks (and a few black conservatives) saying blacks cannot complain when a white kills a black since they kill each other most often. And none of them on media or forums mention the "problem" without mentioning sharpton and jackson. So basically this is those people telling sharpton and jsckson to f-off and deal with problems within their own race.

No one listens to "outsiders" telling them what to do or how to live. Not with guns. Not with religion, Not with sex preference. Not with race. So why would anyone expect people to listen to them when they don't listen when the shoe is on other foot. Let's see what happens when gun control comes up after next shooting. Oh wait...it did . These teens got guns. The kid who shot his elderly caregiver got a gun there in the house and moments later shot her. That is negligence. Laws do not cover criminal use, nor stupid people not taking proper care of their guns and making sure they are out of the wrong hands. That isn't gun controll...that is careless and irresponsible.


 


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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #115 
Thank you all for admitting that there is no solution.  I couldn't really think of one when JG asked either but I would like it stopped.  So all you can do is stay as mentally prepared and physically ready if it happens to you.  Further re-segregating Americans and then we will hear how there are no quality grocery stores and merchants in the inner city.  So shlt sherlock.  If you were going to open a grocery store, would you do it where you think it would lose the most money to vandalism and theft?  I listen all the time to news reports that Quanel X, is up in arms because no grocery store chain wants to locate in inner city Houston.  Yes, Quanel is on TV in Houston a few times every week, he 'debates' topics with a conservative radio host on our local Fox station.  Quanel is ok, I like the verbal back and forth and he is a man of intelligence.

The issue of the white shooters at Columbine, Aurora and Newtown.  We care enough to throw more money at what DC calls 'education' then throw some of that money at defending our schools from these freaks.  Do we care about our children or not?  1st Class video suveillance, when you have someone entering a school 'zone' with a black trench coat, sunglasses and what looks like a weapon, have your armed guard who is monitoring the cameras fire one warning shot, or not.  The next shot should be right between the eyes.

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mikec

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Reply with quote  #116 
As for school shootings, we had a big debate here a few months ago about cops in schools.  My kids have never gone to school where there wasn't a cop at the school, and high schools usually have two.  I see no reason not to have cops there, as it seems to me like a deterrent.

fhoenix - you've made some good points.

The other side of that coin is that you get the Sharptons of the world, sure.  Even worse, you get the President and AG speaking out, and they only do it when the victim "could be their son".  That is what is so frustrating.

It feels like this POTUS and AG are giving a green light to one group, because they won't prosecute, while speaking out about another group.  If the POTUS and the AG would quit commenting so one-sidedly, you might could live with Sharpton et al.

Just yesterday, Jesse Jackson said the Tea Party was the 21st century KKK.  How is it OK to say something like that?  Does that help this national conversation?

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #117 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
real - Without restructuring the entire values system of a subculture, I simply don't know if that "education" problem can be attacked or to some degree solved.  I once observed an inner city classroom (sent to observe a teacher for hire) in which 25 bodies sat in 25 desks.  The teacher taught a "set up" lesson, and afterwards I talked with him and noted that as well as that he didn't seem to know the students well, and this was a quarter of the way through the school year. He was a Yale graduate who had come to the inner city to save the world from itself, a rich kid well intentioned and totally ill equipped to deal with the situation.  Our Superintendent hired the kid because he knew his parents through the cocktail party circuit.  Nice kid who left teaching for more lucrative fields after two years with us. His Dad knew a guy who knew a guy who knew the Super.    He admitted that he didn't know the kids well because inner city administration assigned him 40 kids per class knowing that no more than 25 would show up on any given day and that way administration saved money on literal per pupil cost while collecting state funds on actual enrollment.  As I exited the building, through halls that needed a good coat of paint, past the police officers in those hallways, I felt a feeling of hopelessness and despair.  I was brought up with little money in a small railroad town, but had the good fortune of parents who demanded that I at least attend undergraduate school to "make something of myself". "What do you mean you got a 'B' in Latin?  You got 'As' in your other courses, so why not Latin"?  How different from "Stay home today because I need you to watch the young ones while I do some errands".                                                                                         

   Frank 



Agree 100%, BUT the breakdown of STRUCTURE at home and at school was the downfall.  Throwing money surely will not help.  They don't pay teachers enough for the demands they have to go through, so they don't keep some that are good.  My oldest, pregnant now, is a 4th grade school teacher for about 4 years.  Her hours and her work during the school year is demanding.  She is a good teacher but taking time to raise a baby I don't know if she will go back to teaching or pursue something else.  I hope she stays teaching, she is 27

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #118 
The unfortunate fact is that minorities more often than not produce children without a Father in the home. Further, minorities make up a larger percentage of prison populations. Minorities perpetrate a larger percentage of violent crimes. Why are we not focusing on these facts? Why should minority communities not be held responsible for the fruits of their labors? How much time and money should be spent to correct those ill behaviors? How much should I as an American care? I could care less about ignorant people, and tend to dissociate myself from them. I pay taxes to feed, house, and give them medical care, yet they insist on committing crimes, robbing businesses, perpetrating home invasions, and participating in mob violence. Why should I have any compassion towards ethnic minorities that perpetrates a larger percentage of crimes than their percentage of our population? I am not being racist, just asking why I should have any compassion towards the results of the Great Society, and it's inevitable failure? I think instead, I will henceforth remain silent on race relations, further arm myself, and let more intelligent people, inform me why I MUST be tolerant. Let me know how that tolerance thing works out for you when you, and your family, unarmed are caught up in some type of "youthful exuberance" one night.
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You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #119 
According to FBI---
81% of violent crimes are committed by Males. 79% of victims of violent crimes are male.
59.4 % of violent crimes were by white, 38.3% were by black, and 2.2% were other races.
Within violent crimes we have Homicide---blacks were 49.7% and whites were 48%. For rape whites were 65% and 32.9% were white.
For burglary---66.7 and blacks were 31.7. So you are 2/3 more likely to have you house broken into by a white than a black. Plus most of these are households that earn 18,000 or less.

Blacks and whites victims are 90% same race as the criminal. 25% of crimes are by someone familiar. The mass shootings all had a victim that had met the killer, were co-workers with, classmates with, or were related to or dated.  And yes the percentage of blacks committing crimes is higher than whites but whites are 72% of the population and account for 69.2% of the arrests. And since more blacks are in prison yet more whites were arrested we can conclude that whites make bail and have better lawyers. They get arrested more but end up in jail less for same crime. It isn't racism--it is math. If many of these under 25 blacks do not have a father in the home and their mom is either on assistance or working 2 jobs just to be broke and pay bills they have no one to pay bail and they use public defenders not hired lawyers. Family has it's benefits. You screw up and someone is there to "bail you out"...literally.

Income, gender and age are the most important and common factors in all crime.
Vast majority of all crimes are committed by low income males younger than 25.
People with nothing have nothing to lose by committing crimes. Get away with it, get killed or end up in jail with 3 hots and a cot.
So if we want to stop most crime we take all males age 15-24 and put them into the military until they are 25. That takes care of a majority of crime. Now I know why Amazons said men were the most dangerous mammal out there.

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bhblue

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Reply with quote  #120 
Ok, fhoenix, nice total crime breakdown. Now, what percentage of Americans are black? Find that out and that will tell you which group contains those more likely to commit a crime.
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