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Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyenoall
Actually, from this video, more often than not she drags her toe.  So this is pretty refreshing.  Not that I care, the ever so slight leap (if you wanna go with that) is not giving her an advantage.  She just mows your hitters down regardless.  Get off her S@!T already.  


Dragging the top of the toe does not allow resetting the pivot, but dragging the instep does. Both of the pitchers are leaping, replanting, and pushing.
aojr03

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



So your excuse is a rule change from 6 years ago? (43 feet)  And the bases are now closer?  who knew? And the bats are juiced?  wow  That's a whole lot of mumbo jumbo to defend breaking the rules.


Whatever miss.  You are as anti-UF as it gets.  Didn't hear much when Stewart was pitching in the middle game of the Louisiana/Bama series, the one where the Cajuns opened up a can.  Matter of fact didn't hear any Bama fans say anything about her "leap" in that thread.  
cuddlefuddle

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Reply with quote  #33 
A lot of envious people in this thread.
CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aojr03
Boy, these rules are fair weather.   The rule will NOT be enforced.  So shut the front door and just hit the pitch.  With these juiced bats, bases being so dam close that a routine grounder is bang bang, 190 foot fences, moving the rubber back to 43, and chitty umps, you guys are complaining about the 1 of many pitchers that have a leap?  Just so happens that pitcher is having a historic season.   I just see a lot of whine and hate.  See you in OKC, cause if they make it, I'll be there.  


It's the arbitrary games where it is called that is the problem in my mind. When one out of 8-10 games you get a crew that calls what they feel is the interpretation of the rule appears to be the issue with me. A rule shouldn't be so difficult to call that it's open for a wide range of interpretation. It shouldn't be a point where coaches can lobby umpires before the game as to whether someone is illegal or not (although I guess that would happen anyway).
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aojr03


Whatever miss.  You are as anti-UF as it gets.  Didn't hear much when Stewart was pitching in the middle game of the Louisiana/Bama series, the one where the Cajuns opened up a can.  Matter of fact didn't hear any Bama fans say anything about her "leap" in that thread.  


What's your point? If it's trying to be that these posters aren't calling out other pitchers I'm guessing you missed them calling out Carlson even while she was losing to UF.

Since you're knowledgeable, is she illegal or not?
Softball98mom

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDogsDad
So let me get this straight.

The pitch is illegal but since she doesn't gain an advantage then there should be no penalty? Then change the damn rule.

To say it has no effect on the game because she doesn't gain an advantage is one-sided.

Because for every illegal pitch, a ball is awarded to the batter, those ball calls can lead to base on balls, and subsequently to free bases. That's simply if she doesn't make a change to make the pitch legal. If she does that, does it become a mental thing where she has to concentrate on keeping the pitch legal? Does that cause her to be just a smudge less effective, can good to great hitters take advantage of that drop in effectiveness?



Adding to that...other pitchers who were deemed 'illegal' had to work hard to change their delivery. They had loss of playing time due to learning new mechanics, their speed went down for a time due to concentrating on the new drag (or whatever was illegal). I've seen pitchers called on illegal pitches with a way lesser leap than KB makes! Would she still throw great pitching legally? Yes she would, so why not correct it?
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



So your excuse is a rule change from 6 years ago? (43 feet)  And the bases are now closer?  who knew? And the bats are juiced?  wow  That's a whole lot of mumbo jumbo to defend breaking the rules.


The distance rule change for hs was just 6 years ago?  For college is was many years ago in the 80's.
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo


This is exactly right. If it is illegal, then coaches should holler about it and not stop. People don't have the courage to keep challenging cheaters. Or how about this: Have a 3-person committee with softball expertise--no ties to the SEC or any SEC schools--watch this or other videos of her pitches and make a determination. Let it decide--but it's pretty clear from what I see that she is not only replanting, but replanting and getting leverage from the replant, which equals definite advantage. What kind of season she or anyone has should not relevant--but obviously if you are replanting and super-successful, you will be scrutinize--and rightly so.   


+1,  That front foot doesn't come down until after the replant. allowing for advantage to get closer and Accelerate the pitch
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


The distance rule change for hs was just 6 years ago?  For college is was many years ago in the 80's.


1988, then in 93 the compression of the ball was changed to be livelier.  I learned that yesterday [biggrin] on another thread.  by the way bats have been hot for quite sometime not just in the last 6 years. try at least 12 years ago, about the time composites came out.
CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovsofbal


1988, then in 93 the compression of the ball was changed to be livelier.  I learned that yesterday [biggrin] on another thread.  by the way bats have been hot for quite sometime not just in the last 6 years. try at least 12 years ago, about the time composites came out.


That period was actually when they changed the rules to reduce hot bats, but grandfathered a few teams in to allow them to keep using hot bats while others couldn't. Yeah, that was fair.
aojr03

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrot
What's your point? If it's trying to be that these posters aren't calling out other pitchers I'm guessing you missed them calling out Carlson even while she was losing to UF. Since you're knowledgeable, is she illegal or not?


Cause the Bama hate for Auburn surpasses that of even Florida.   My point is that why isn't there an "does she replant and pushoff" thread for Stewart.  KB is illegal sometimes and sometimes she's not.  Whether is HBP by UF, or the "enthusiasm by Moss post pitch, etc...    Just alot of whining about something NONE of us can do anything about.  It's just whiny babble that if she was on YOUR team, you'd have no problem with.  You can say you would, but I won't buy it.   Yes I have a dog in this fight, but even so, it's annoying to always hear the same thing over and over when it's not going to change. 

MadDogsDad

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovsofbal


1988, then in 93 the compression of the ball was changed to be livelier.  I learned that yesterday [biggrin] on another thread.  by the way bats have been hot for quite sometime not just in the last 6 years. try at least 12 years ago, about the time composites came out.


Those Stealth's back in the day. Especially that yellow one. Damn.

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Mangler

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Reply with quote  #43 
Its a replant, and shes outside the lanes 90% of the time.

Umps don't call it because Walton would lose his mind. She has been called on it before especially in TB.
And if you're not going to enforce the lanes, stop putting them in the circles.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aojr03


Cause the Bama hate for Auburn surpasses that of even Florida.   My point is that why isn't there an "does she replant and pushoff" thread for Stewart.  KB is illegal sometimes and sometimes she's not.  Whether is HBP by UF, or the "enthusiasm by Moss post pitch, etc...    Just alot of whining about something NONE of us can do anything about.  It's just whiny babble that if she was on YOUR team, you'd have no problem with.  You can say you would, but I won't buy it.   Yes I have a dog in this fight, but even so, it's annoying to always hear the same thing over and over when it's not going to change. 


So you want us all to take the "ignore it" approach?

If she were on my team and doing this, I'd take two approaches.   Ignore it and let everyone else talk about it, thus not inserting myself in to the situation.  Or take the approach Auburn fan did:  "Yes, I've seen that she's illegal in some cases, but they're not calling it." (paraphrased)

The fact that UF fans aren't willing to at least admit that she is illegal (when it's clearly obvious), and instead are attempting to deflect to other players/programs is the most evident part of the whole conversation.

The funny thing is one thinks it's the hate for the team.  Surely there is hate for Auburn, but you didn't see anyone on here last year trying to find something illegal about Auburn when they had Davis, Walters, Carlson, Martin and Abbott.  If it were just about it being a rival and the player being successful, you'd have heard more clamor about Tiffany Howard being out of the box more often than not.  From my perspective, I watched the NCAAs rules RUIN two pitchers (Taylor and Fowler), but now we are moving into a world where we don't want the stain on our sport of having to enforce a rule.

Complaining about the mannerisms of someone like Moss isn't trying to get her to stay within the rules of the game.  It's just a personal preference.  Much like hating on how Myers tried to make Abbott's baseball delivery a thing is just a personal preference as both of those cases are within the rules.  So yes, it's whining ... also known as an opinion.  If we aren't allowed to express those, then someone is wasting their money to keep this site up and running.

As to there being no thread on Stewart, it's probably because no one really watches ULL.

But the question remains, based on your understanding is she illegal or legal?
kazoo

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Reply with quote  #45 

There is video technology: it should be used by a committee before the season starts to review the delivery of any returning pitchers who have been
brought to the committee's attention for illegal pitches. If a pitcher is deemed illegal, the coach and umpires should be informed prior to start of season and the illegal pitch call made until the delivery is changed. If it is a freshman pitcher, you leave it with the umps and review it in the offseason. That is how I would handle it.

When you don't enforce an illegal delivery early on, you get controversy. This is like a basketball player who takes three steps without the ball on his way to the basket  instead of the allowed two steps. It is illegal but sometimes not called because it happens fast. Ultimately, if opposing coaches don't raise hell about it, nothing will happen. That said, watching that video it is clear that she is replanting AND gaining an advantage. To say she IS replanting but not gaining an advantage is lunacy and she is nowhere close to releasing the ball when she replants and thus is gaining leverage from the replant. 

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1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovsofbal


1988, then in 93 the compression of the ball was changed to be livelier.  I learned that yesterday [biggrin] on another thread.  by the way bats have been hot for quite sometime not just in the last 6 years. try at least 12 years ago, about the time composites came out.


I pitched at 43ft back in 1986-87.
G8terfan23

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Reply with quote  #47 
She's does but it's very subtle to me. Her motions are so fast. On that note i wish coaches at the beginning of pitchers careers would hound players on being legal. Start at a young age it probably won't be as bad going into college. Will she be called? Idk I think for her particularly replays would have to be played.
G8terfan23

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Reply with quote  #48 
If I have to rewind the game on my tv I imagine how it is in live games.
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


I pitched at 43ft back in 1986-87.


this was posted on the pitching distance post yesterday

http://newsok.com/article/2742434

maybe it's fake news. [smile]
PH2

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by G8terfan23
She's does but it's very subtle to me. Her motions are so fast. On that note i wish coaches at the beginning of pitchers careers would hound players on being legal. Start at a young age it probably won't be as bad going into college. Will she be called? Idk I think for her particularly replays would have to be played.


Aside from trying to teach a proper motion, coaches have no incentive to change what is otherwise a successful pitcher's motion because of something that rarely gets called.  All you hear starting in 10U and up from umpires is the cop out, "I'm not calling it on their pitcher because everyone's illegal and I'd have to call it on yours."
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunAmos


It's the arbitrary games where it is called that is the problem in my mind. When one out of 8-10 games you get a crew that calls what they feel is the interpretation of the rule appears to be the issue with me. A rule shouldn't be so difficult to call that it's open for a wide range of interpretation. It shouldn't be a point where coaches can lobby umpires before the game as to whether someone is illegal or not (although I guess that would happen anyway).


I see different rule interpretations every game..  Umpiring is really at a low this year.
aojr03

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Posts: 263
Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrot


So you want us all to take the "ignore it" approach?

If she were on my team and doing this, I'd take two approaches.   Ignore it and let everyone else talk about it, thus not inserting myself in to the situation.  Or take the approach Auburn fan did:  "Yes, I've seen that she's illegal in some cases, but they're not calling it." (paraphrased)

The fact that UF fans aren't willing to at least admit that she is illegal (when it's clearly obvious), and instead are attempting to deflect to other players/programs is the most evident part of the whole conversation.

The funny thing is one thinks it's the hate for the team.  Surely there is hate for Auburn, but you didn't see anyone on here last year trying to find something illegal about Auburn when they had Davis, Walters, Carlson, Martin and Abbott.  If it were just about it being a rival and the player being successful, you'd have heard more clamor about Tiffany Howard being out of the box more often than not.  From my perspective, I watched the NCAAs rules RUIN two pitchers (Taylor and Fowler), but now we are moving into a world where we don't want the stain on our sport of having to enforce a rule.

Complaining about the mannerisms of someone like Moss isn't trying to get her to stay within the rules of the game.  It's just a personal preference.  Much like hating on how Myers tried to make Abbott's baseball delivery a thing is just a personal preference as both of those cases are within the rules.  So yes, it's whining ... also known as an opinion.  If we aren't allowed to express those, then someone is wasting their money to keep this site up and running.

As to there being no thread on Stewart, it's probably because no one really watches ULL.

But the question remains, based on your understanding is she illegal or legal?


I answered that... illegal some of the time, legal some of the time.   It doesn't happen every pitch.   So if she's still throwing the same whether she's legal or illegal:  1:  just throw legal every time (cause i know you'd say this).  2:  does it matter since it isn't changing the pitch.


aojr03

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


I pitched at 43ft back in 1986-87.


I apologize.. didn't mean to refer to the wooden bat era.  [biggrin]
kazoo

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Reply with quote  #54 
I wouldn't call Barnhill's replant "subtle." It is pretty egregious to me, while acknowledging some subtlety given that this is fast-pitch softball and every pitcher's footwork and delivery is fast--fast delivery = fast pitch. 
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G8terfan23

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Reply with quote  #55 
I'm still going to sit back and enjoy this barnhill ride. If coaches see it they should inform the umpires about it. She's been playing college ball over a year and a half and not one illegal pitch has been called on her.
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo
I wouldn't call Barnhill's replant "subtle." It is pretty egregious to me, while acknowledging some subtlety given that this is fast-pitch softball and every pitcher's footwork and delivery is fast--fast delivery = fast pitch. 


I agree.  When her trail leg bends and then straightens there is a second impetus.  If there was just a check and her back leg "collapsed", she'd be okay.  Her leap looks more subtle or it's just difficult to see in the video.

I saw an Auburn pitcher this weekend landing well outside the 24" of the rubber without it being called once while I was watching.  Disappointing, but not too surprising.
aojr03

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Reply with quote  #57 
Well guess what?   EAT IT for the rest of this season and the next 2 seasons.  
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aojr03
Well guess what?   EAT IT for the rest of this season and the next 2 seasons.  


I couldn't care less what team it was.  Wasn't meant to push your buttons there buddy.  

Besides, it sounds like IPs are the least of AU's worries.  Why "EAT IT", when you can smoke it, right?


Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunAmos


It's the arbitrary games where it is called that is the problem in my mind. When one out of 8-10 games you get a crew that calls what they feel is the interpretation of the rule appears to be the issue with me. A rule shouldn't be so difficult to call that it's open for a wide range of interpretation. It shouldn't be a point where coaches can lobby umpires before the game as to whether someone is illegal or not (although I guess that would happen anyway).


Often not called in-conference, but called in the NCAA tourney. That's because umpires can be fired (or not rehired) by conferences due to complaints from major head coaches. Especially if teaching their pitchers to cheat.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #60 
Barnhill replants enough where it should be addressed. When you're throwing 70 you create an even bigger advantage with the replant. I've never seen her step over the left lane line though. Barnhill's mechanics resemble Carlson's/Auburn slightly. Both of their first moves is to slide left. Carlson just takes it to a new level...she steps into the 1st base dugout damn near every pitch. If Barnhill  created the same angle Carlson DOES create, there would be anarchy. Think about it this way: if Megan Good/JMU, who has fantastic mechanics, all of a sudden started to step over her right lane to throw inside to batters @ 68-70. How long would that be allowed? About 2 pitches. Coaches would come unhinged. 

The reason it's not being called on either kid is because the SEC crews are cowards. I'm still waiting on any umpire to respond to why Carlson isn't illegal. And if there are any SEC umps on this site, grow a pair, have some self respect & speak up.


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