Ultimate College Softball
Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
Ultimate College Softball > Categories > College Softball > Does playing Finals in OKC give OU an unfair advantage?
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
AustinSoftball

Registered:
Posts: 171
Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I love the complex in OKC and we played there in select ball.  We also played OU in Norman and could not buy one reserved seat for the visiting fans. OU is a great team, but could they win these championships on neutral territory?  Omaha does not present the same advantage to any baseball team.  ASA decided to rotate its finals because it was perceived to bias central US teams and because of the Cali competition.  Just raising a question because I think home team advantage is a big one.
AnotherSBFan

Registered:
Posts: 31
Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinSoftball
I love the complex in OKC and we played there in select ball.  We also played OU in Norman and could not buy one reserved seat for the visiting fans. OU is a great team, but could they win these championships on neutral territory?  Omaha does not present the same advantage to any baseball team.  ASA decided to rotate its finals because it was perceived to bias central US teams and because of the Cali competition.  Just raising a question because I think home team advantage is a big one.


I've seen this topic come up a few times and I always ask, is there anywhere else in the country that has a venue for softball quite like that OKC stadium? I'm curious...
scrybe

Registered:
Posts: 1,195
Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstptch123
This is getting old, Let's hear it from the OU haters.


Let me raise a question:  Could OU possibly defeat UT if those two teams played in Austin?

Oh, wait!
cleareyesfullheart

Registered:
Posts: 105
Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Didn't hear much of this OU home field in 2014 when they went 1-2. 
LandLottery

Registered:
Posts: 177
Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Facts:
1982:  Norman, OK----UCLA (either Norman or Omaha)
1983:  Omaha, NE----Texas A&M
1984:  Omaha, NE----UCLA
1985:  Omaha, NE----UCLA
1986:  Omaha, NE----Cal Fullerton
1987:  Omaha, NE----Texas A&M
1988:  Sunnyvale, CA--UCLA
1989:  Sunnyvale, CA--UCLA
1990:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
1991:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1992:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
1993:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1994:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1995:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
1996:  Columbus, GA----Arizona
1997:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1998:  Oklahoma City---Fresno State
1999:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2000:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma
2001:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
2002:  Oklahoma City---California
2003:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2004:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2005:  Oklahoma City---Michigan
2006:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
2007:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
2008:  Oklahoma City---Arizona State
2009:  Oklahoma city---Washington
2010:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2011:  Oklahoma City---Arizona State
2012:  Oklahoma City---Alabama
2013:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma
2014:  Oklahoma City---Florida
2015:  Oklahoma City---Florida
2016:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma
2017:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma

Let's see.  UCLA has won in Norman (1), Omaha (2), Sunnyvale, CA (2), and Oklahoma City (7).
Arizona has won in Oklahoma City (7) and Columbus, GA (1).
Florida has won in Oklahoma City twice, as has Arizona State.
Teams from the west coast have won 26 titles. The Big Ten has one.  The SEC has three, unless you count the two from A&M which was SWC at the time.
Is there a west coast bias in OKC?
Oklahoma's first appearance at the College World Series did not occur until 2000.

Seems rather unbiased.  Who wants to spend the time and money to build a permanent complex for the Hall of Fame and Stadium?  Of course, it can't be near a school that has softball---perhaps, Nome.  Ought to be thawing out about this time of year.

Oklahoma appeared in the NCAA ten times before they made it to OKC.
musftblfan

Registered:
Posts: 1,177
Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Anyone who's playing against them and is competitive (and not a baby) probably feels it creates an advantage, sure, but not an unfair one.
__________________
live in Brooklyn, NY, raised in St. Louis. not a lot of people know I like softball this much..... 
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,534
Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Having 8,000 fans cheering for them is zero problem. The city and that facility deserve to host forever IMO. Just a phenomenal experience

However, having umpires cowed by that crowd is where any issue pops up, and one of the primary reasons replay must be implemented... now, if not Sooner
vol52

Registered:
Posts: 987
Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns


However, having umpires cowed by that crowd is where any issue pops up, and one of the primary reasons replay must be implemented... now, if not Sooner


I see what you did there......
__________________
Steve Rhodes
1janiedough

Registered:
Posts: 3,356
Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LandLottery
Facts:
1982:  Norman, OK----UCLA (either Norman or Omaha)
1983:  Omaha, NE----Texas A&M
1984:  Omaha, NE----UCLA
1985:  Omaha, NE----UCLA
1986:  Omaha, NE----Cal Fullerton
1987:  Omaha, NE----Texas A&M
1988:  Sunnyvale, CA--UCLA
1989:  Sunnyvale, CA--UCLA
1990:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
1991:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1992:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
1993:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1994:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1995:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
1996:  Columbus, GA----Arizona
1997:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
1998:  Oklahoma City---Fresno State
1999:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2000:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma
2001:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
2002:  Oklahoma City---California
2003:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2004:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2005:  Oklahoma City---Michigan
2006:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
2007:  Oklahoma City---Arizona
2008:  Oklahoma City---Arizona State
2009:  Oklahoma city---Washington
2010:  Oklahoma City---UCLA
2011:  Oklahoma City---Arizona State
2012:  Oklahoma City---Alabama
2013:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma
2014:  Oklahoma City---Florida
2015:  Oklahoma City---Florida
2016:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma
2017:  Oklahoma City---Oklahoma

Let's see.  UCLA has won in Norman (1), Omaha (2), Sunnyvale, CA (2), and Oklahoma City (7).
Arizona has won in Oklahoma City (7) and Columbus, GA (1).
Florida has won in Oklahoma City twice, as has Arizona State.
Teams from the west coast have won 26 titles. The Big Ten has one.  The SEC has three, unless you count the two from A&M which was SWC at the time.
Is there a west coast bias in OKC?
Oklahoma's first appearance at the College World Series did not occur until 2000.

Seems rather unbiased.  Who wants to spend the time and money to build a permanent complex for the Hall of Fame and Stadium?  Of course, it can't be near a school that has softball---perhaps, Nome.  Ought to be thawing out about this time of year.

Oklahoma appeared in the NCAA ten times before they made it to OKC.



Columbus Georgia?
LandLottery

Registered:
Posts: 177
Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



Columbus Georgia?
Wikipedia says Columbus, Ga
jayrot

Registered:
Posts: 17,630
Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



Columbus Georgia?


At the now dilapidated Olympic stadium.
RahOKU

Registered:
Posts: 1,689
Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I've said a number of times on this board that in 2016, the Auburn contingent did a good job mitigating any big crowd edge the Sooners might've enjoyed. This year I think OU had a bigger edge than in 2016, though Florida's fans were very spirited. In fact, Game 1 was so long and tense, the crowd held its breath a lot. In the end, teams make their own momentum. Umps sometimes may be influenced by crowds, but I don't feel it's a big factor.

Lefty is right that the investments OKC has made in the stadium, etc, are a big bar for anyone to meet, much less overcome. And the reality is that the NCAA has locked in OKC for the foreseeable future.
__________________
"We Americans have good teeth and don't eat spotted dick." -- Columnist Kurt Schlichter
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,534
Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Replay would be the easiest way to level the playing field. And it should be done like MLB... to a review umpire NOT at the stadium
Gators2014

Registered:
Posts: 4,051
Posted Reply with quote  #14 
It obviously gives them an advantage.

Unfair? I don't know. I mean it is what it is. There isn't a better venue.

Should that take away from what they accomplished? Absolutely not.

Would they have won all of their recent championships if the games were not played in OKC? Who knows. They were.
Kurosawa

Registered:
Posts: 3,139
Posted Reply with quote  #15 
The bigger advantage is in recruiting and transfers. Success breeds success.
cjs4585

Registered:
Posts: 580
Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa
The bigger advantage is in recruiting and transfers. Success breeds success.


Success does breed success, but when you get to the final few teams there is usually a razor's edge between them in terms of the talent of the players playing any particular game. A small enough edge that home field advantage can make the difference. I don't know if OU would have won the titles at a different venue or not but when you are talking about a play or two that means winning or losing, it seems a plausible question.
scrybe

Registered:
Posts: 1,195
Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


Success does breed success, but when you get to the final few teams there is usually a razor's edge between them in terms of the talent of the players playing any particular game. A small enough edge that home field advantage can make the difference. I don't know if OU would have won the titles at a different venue or not but when you are talking about a play or two that means winning or losing, it seems a plausible question.


Perhaps the WCWS qualifiers should just suck it up and hire a coach who can recruit great players and coach them up like Patty Gasso does.  If SEC teams would concentrate on putting a great product on the field instead of constantly bloviating about being superior to everyone else, then one of those 13 teams might wrest the title away from OU.  I'm convinced that whining about home-field advantage and crying that the HOF crowd intimidates umpires will not result in a title for any team.
Stanford_Softball

Registered:
Posts: 39
Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I don't think it is going to give them a super big advantage. But defiantly because they are playing closer than any of the other teams. I still think that they could do it regardless of the locations because Oklahoma is a good ball club (Coming from not an Oklahoma fan) and I think good ball clubs can win on the road. Besides, Oklahoma lost a game in the regionals and they still came back to win the national championship, so although yes it is closer to home so you are going to have more Oklahoma fans I don't think that it makes too much of a difference.
__________________
Stanford
LandLottery

Registered:
Posts: 177
Posted Reply with quote  #19 
If you examine the list above, you will notice that for the first 18 years, nine of which were in OKC, the only team not from Arizona or California to win the title was Texas A&M.  It hardly seemed that a homefield advantage was an issue.  There were two years in which it was held in California, and UCLA won.  But, UCLA won everywhere.  No teams from the Big Ten, SEC, or Big Twelve won any titles.  In fact, it was all Arizona and California.

This year, thirteen teams got into the NCAAs from the SEC.  But, at the end, the final four were two from the Pac Twelve, one from the Big Twelve, and one from the SEC. 

If you have actually played the game during a championship game, you probably didn't even notice if there was a crowd.  You saw exactly what you should see, what is happening on the field.  The existence of fans doesn't even occur to you until the game is over.
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,534
Posted Reply with quote  #20 
I'm not concerned about the players
ChinMusic

Registered:
Posts: 902
Posted Reply with quote  #21 
This broken record is about to wear completely through.

OU won because the had the best team when it mattered. Just like Florida did in 14 and 15. Every Sooner opponent was capable of winning in 2000, 13, 16, 17. But the Sooners got it done when it counted. They've had their share of good calls and bad calls over the years just like every team does. Historically the OKC location has not guaranteed their success. And as others have pointed out the location was selected long before OU was relevant so don't confuse cause and effect.

Bottom line (as I taught my KIDS), " If you don't like how it feels to get your a$$ beaten, get better". And this one too...."Don't let the game be close enough for the umpire (or crowd) to impact the outcome." And finally 3LT......"You lost. It's in the past. Put on your big boy / girl pants and get over it. Please.....get over it."
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,534
Posted Reply with quote  #22 

LOL... More than one team was screwed by those ridiculous calls.

Any objective fan can see this year's event was soiled by the umpires in many huge moments.

Don't worry, there will be no asterisk. Oklahoma won the games. That will endure.

But, if the NCAA doesn't institute a replay review system for at least the WCWS (and, ideally the Sweet 16), then it is a case of pure sexism.

Hell, college baseball has had it at the WCS for 6 years, and had it for the regular season this year.


http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/article/2016-08-17/college-baseball-panel-approves-regular-season-replay-rule
cjs4585

Registered:
Posts: 580
Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe


Perhaps the WCWS qualifiers should just suck it up and hire a coach who can recruit great players and coach them up like Patty Gasso does.  If SEC teams would concentrate on putting a great product on the field instead of constantly bloviating about being superior to everyone else, then one of those 13 teams might wrest the title away from OU.  I'm convinced that whining about home-field advantage and crying that the HOF crowd intimidates umpires will not result in a title for any team.


What a joke. When OU is run ruling all of the wcws participants and winning ten titles in a row you can talk about Gasso and OK's innate superiority. Or at least when they aren't nearly blowing their regional by losing to the #155 RPI team and almost losing in the regional final to Tulsa. Gasso is a good coach, OK is a good team. They played well when they had to, but come on, there are a lot of good teams and coaches and it could have easily gone a different way.
scrybe

Registered:
Posts: 1,195
Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585
What a joke. When OU is run ruling all of the wcws participants and winning ten titles in a row you can talk about Gasso and OK's innate superiority. Or at least when they aren't nearly blowing their regional by losing to the #155 RPI team and almost losing in the regional final to Tulsa. Gasso is a good coach, OK is a good team. They played well when they had to, but come on, there are a lot of good teams and coaches and it could have easily gone a different way.


The joke, sir/madam, is on you – those who refuse to admit that OU won the WCWS because the Sooners played better than the other seven teams.  Repeating over and over that the Sooners were unworthy because they "blew their regional" by losing to the #155 RPI team, and that they "almost lost" to Tulsa in the regional final reveals a level of bias and ignorance that belies an attitude that Big 12 teams are not good enough to compete with the SEC or Pac 12.

Several teams in this year's WCWS were good enough to have gone home with the title.  But the fact that they didn't has nothing to do with the umps or home-field advantage, and everything to do with the performance of the team that did take home the trophy.
TXRoadLizard

Registered:
Posts: 34
Posted Reply with quote  #25 
"and it could have easily gone a different way"

But it did not, did it?  OU won because they played like champions that they are.  Gasso has 4 National Championships now.  I don't claim she is the best of the best softball coaches to ever lead a team, but she is clearly an elite coach.  The fact that she has accomplished what she has from the Big12 Conference is really amazing.  I will grant that the SEC and Pac12 have more good teams than the Big12.  But for the past 2-years in a row, OU has put a championship winning team on the field at the WCWS and defeated 2 SEC teams to do it... 

cjs4585

Registered:
Posts: 580
Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe


The joke, sir/madam, is on you – those who refuse to admit that OU won the WCWS because the Sooners played better than the other seven teams.  Repeating over and over that the Sooners were unworthy because they "blew their regional" by losing to the #155 RPI team, and that they "almost lost" to Tulsa in the regional final reveals a level of bias and ignorance that belies an attitude that Big 12 teams are not good enough to compete with the SEC or Pac 12.

Several teams in this year's WCWS were good enough to have gone home with the title.  But the fact that they didn't has nothing to do with the umps or home-field advantage, and everything to do with the performance of the team that did take home the trophy.


If you had any reading comprehension skills you would have understood that I was responding to this comment :
"Perhaps the WCWS qualifiers should just suck it up and hire a coach who can recruit great players and coach them up like Patty Gasso does"

The crib notes version of my comment (which you clearly need) is that it is ridiculous for OU fans to think they are so superior to other teams in the WCWS. They played badly along the way and barely got out of their regional and then got some breaks in the wcws. They also played well in the WCWS when they needed to and deserved to win, but there are several teams that could have won it.

To say that the umpire calls and the "home field advantage" etc. didn't play a part in their win is equally ridiculous. Those things happen, and luck is usually part of the story with such closely matched teams. It doesn't mean OU didn't deserve to win.
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,534
Posted Reply with quote  #27 
wfFw
scrybe

Registered:
Posts: 1,195
Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585
If you had any reading comprehension skills you would have understood that I was responding to this comment : "Perhaps the WCWS qualifiers should just suck it up and hire a coach who can recruit great players and coach them up like Patty Gasso does" The crib notes version of my comment (which you clearly need) is that it is ridiculous for OU fans to think they are so superior to other teams in the WCWS. They played badly along the way and barely got out of their regional and then got some breaks in the wcws. They also played well in the WCWS when they needed to and deserved to win, but there are several teams that could have won it. To say that the umpire calls and the "home field advantage" etc. didn't play a part in their win is equally ridiculous. Those things happen, and luck is usually part of the story with such closely matched teams. It doesn't mean OU didn't deserve to win.


Reading comprehension?  LOL.  No one has stated or even implied that OU is "so superior" to the other WCWS teams.  The following is a quote from the post (my post) that you seemed to find objectionable:

"Several teams in this year's WCWS were good enough to have gone home with the title."

The point of my post was, of course, completely lost on you and several other uber-partisan posters on this forum. My point was that you do your teams and yourselves a disservice when you refuse to properly credit the team that won the title and needed no boost from fans or officials to do so.

Footnote: Oklahoma State, the team that defeated UF in the Gainseville Regional, has lost 16 straight games to OU and has not defeated the Sooners since 2011 (OU and OSU normally play each other three times during the regular season).  That win over UF was huge for OSU, but it in no way diminishes what the Gators accomplished this season.  The same can be said for OU's loss to NDSU in the Norman Regional.  The thing that offends me is the narrative that losing the game to NDSU and needing a late rally to beat Tulsa means OU's national title was a product of luck.
1janiedough

Registered:
Posts: 3,356
Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRoadLizard
"and it could have easily gone a different way"

But it did not, did it?  OU won because they played like champions that they are.  Gasso has 4 National Championships now.  I don't claim she is the best of the best softball coaches to ever lead a team, but she is clearly an elite coach.  The fact that she has accomplished what she has from the Big12 Conference is really amazing.  I will grant that the SEC and Pac12 have more good teams than the Big12.  But for the past 2-years in a row, OU has put a championship winning team on the field at the WCWS and defeated 2 SEC teams to do it... 



The proof is in the pudding...4 national championships indeed...number 3 on the list behind UCLA and AZ.  I wonder if Gasso can surpass Candrea because HE is actually the king, having won all 8 of his titles as the coach at one school, AZ in his case.  UCLA split their titles between 3 different coaches.
HenryLouisAaron

Registered:
Posts: 1,850
Posted Reply with quote  #30 
<< there are a lot of good teams and coaches and it could have easily gone a different way. >> (cjs4585)

Do you think this is something new (that there are a lot of good teams - and it could have easily gone a different way)..????

It could almost always... have easily gone a different way.

Yet some how... 
probably by just pure dumb luck (in your view)... 
Oklahoma has won the title three times in the last five seasons... 
and finished in the top two spots in four of the last six seasons.

Holy f-ing crap... they sure are one lucky program.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.