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Nugg_Dawg

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Reply with quote  #1 
What are some of the means that coaches and players use to document their verbal agreements so that there are no surprises when it comes to signing the NLI?

I've heard of the coach sending a letter to the player's HS athletic director mentioning some of the details of the scholarship offer.

BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #2 

Documenting a verbal agreement...

 

In my opinion, if you feel the need to hold the coach "accountable", then you are in the wrong place.

 

 


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azure

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Reply with quote  #3 
Generally when an offer is made, something is written on a piece of paper or in an email

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dumb_parent

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Reply with quote  #4 

I was surprised when my daughter told me that one of the girls she played TB with who is 2 years behind her who had verbeled I believe to oregon was now going to Washington.  Guess verbals don't really mean much.

ScottyRock

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Reply with quote  #5 
Anybody can document anything.  If it isn't signed or recorded than there really isn't any proof that it happened, it is a he said/she said situation.  If you document a verbal agreement (sign or initial it), then in theory isn't that now a written agreement?  I am no lawyer but that's what it seems to me.
Nugg_Dawg

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Reply with quote  #6 
My intent with this question is to find out how the coach and player help themselves to remember the details they agreed too.

My understanding is that the Verbal is an agreement between the coach and a player, who is most likely a minor. The school is not part of that agreement, and a minor cannot be held to satisfy a contract, written or otherwise.

My question spoke to how two persons of integrity don't misunderstand each other.

ScottyRock

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Reply with quote  #7 

If two people were to come to an agreement, the best way to have confusion is by having a verbal agreement.  To avoid this confusion and misunderstanding, put it in writing.

azure

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Reply with quote  #8 
In my limited experience, the offer was always written down, if somewhat informally and the prospect gave their verbal commitment.  Certainly the prospect can followup with a confirming email or letter.  I would assume that if the prospect had the offer wrong, the coaching staff would want to make sure there are no misunderstandings.

However, I would not consider anything strictly verbal by the coach as an offer such as conversation by the side of the field where a prospect thinks a coach said that she could get the player a full ride.  Or general talk about a scholarship.  That's just talk

It's not an offer (IMO) until something specific is written down.

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Edge

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Reply with quote  #9 
You know I just went through this situation with my daughter. Nobody told us to get anything in writing. My common sense told me however that I should, just to make sure we both understood and ,of course, remembered. I felt bad afterwards though as I thought this high profile coach felt I didnt trust him. With verbals coming earlier and earlier, it is very important to write things down.
azure

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Reply with quote  #10 
Edge, so do you have something in writing?  Not anything formal with all the conditions like the scholarship papers but some record about what was agreed to?

Is this a real early commitment?  How long until the NLI?


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Edge

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Reply with quote  #11 

Yes, we did get it in writing and yes it was a very early commitment. My daughter is a young player who just verballed to a top school. We have spent a year of unofficial visits and ballgames. She was ready and she was positive.

I think writing things down is very, very important . I think when I explained to coaches why I wanted it they were OK. At first, they felt a little like I didn't trust them but I explained it is not that at all. Think about it, we talked to a lot of coaches and they talked to a lot of players. Things can get mixed up if there a period of time between the verbal and signing. I just wanted to make sure we both had no questions.

 

PopEye

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Reply with quote  #12 
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this topic, but I believe some may feel that by getting the verbal commitment in writing, they feel they are somehow protected and guaranteed whatever was written. Ignoring offer and acceptance with a minor, there is no legal guarantee with this type of writing. There are no standard conditions that if "this" happens then "that" will occur. There are no penalties or ramifications associated with such a writing to either party. Essentially, the writing clarifies the intent at that point in time. Over time, things can and often do change. As we all know, injuries, academics, lack of concentration along with several other factors can cause a player not to pursue playing in college.  Coaches can retire or change jobs.  Unexpected events happen all the time.

The NLI does provide protection to the school as well as the player. Up until the signing, anything can happen. I guess the answer regarding verbal commitments guarantees is what others before me have said, it boils down to the coach's character, values and word. A coach's word and handshake is much stronger and more valuable to me than any piece of paper.

Now if I really missed the point, please ignore.

Edge

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Reply with quote  #13 

The reason to get a verbal in writing is to clarify and to make sure both parties completely understand and small details are not forgotten. It is smart and not intended to be legally binding by either party even though in some states a verbal agreement is binding if a meeting of the minds can be proved. You should fully trust your daughters coach but this is not a matter of trust.

I am going to give you an example.

In some states if your child achieves certain grades or scores they are entitled to " some" money for school. This money is free to the coach and does not count towards his scholarships. The child has to maintain a certain grade point average to continue to receive the money. If using such funds it is good to clarify if the "full ride still exists" if the child dips below the GPA required and loses the " free" funds.

Understand? Minor details like this as well as  many others need to be discussed and written down in detail so everybody remembers several years down the road. It is not trust.

azure

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Reply with quote  #14 
Agree with Seabiscuit.  Very few enter with full rides (though there are some) but lots of people like to say differently.

I remember being a little concerned after the verbal commitment because I wasn't really sure that it had really happened.  However, when my dd received the NLI, it was as we had discussed.

My experience with other families in our cohort is that there are always some sort of confusion with the scholarship as you go along, things that don't quite work as you think.  Costing the family money, of course.  I've also noticed that it's usually tough for parents to get straight answers about the scholarship administration, it's not in the university's interest to make this information available.


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PopEye

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Reply with quote  #15 
Don't get me wrong, obtaining clarification from the coach is good. Matter-of-fact, my DD received such a clarification in writing. I believe your statement "It is smart and not intended to be legally binding by either party....." clarifies your position.

You do bring up an interesting point regarding a "full ride" that includes academic funds. I'm sure there are coaches on this board that can address that situation. In my DD's case, her NLI indicated a full ride.
azure

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Reply with quote  #16 
Interesting point about the definition of a 'full-ride'

Many families would consider that, if all the costs are paid, it's a 'full-ride' regardless of the source of funds.  Some might consider this a 'full-ride' even if some of it is loans.  Some might consider a 'full-ride' if all tuition is covered.

And there are those who will  say that they or their dd have a 'full-ride' no matter what


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PopEye

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit

If it includes non athletic grant in aid then I think we'll all agree that that's not considered a "full ride."



Right. The NLI dictates what the athletic portion is. If the NLI indicates it is a full ride, then it is.

Azure brings up different points. Not sure how the last sentenance, " And there are those who will say that they or their dd have a 'full-ride' no matter what," applies to the discussion or if it was an insinuation directed toward me. Seems odd.
azure

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Reply with quote  #18 
Popeye...heavens no

I'm not doubting you a bit...but there have been plenty of families who say that their dd have a 'full ride' but if I question them closely, it turns out that's not the case at all.

I think that many families coming in are under the impression that they should expect a 'full ride' or that most get a 'full ride' and they shouldn't accept anything less.  But the truth is that very few enter with a full athletics aid 'full ride'


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azure

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Reply with quote  #19 
For example, I worked with a pitcher who was valedictorian of her class in a large high school and came from a family with low income.  The deal she accepted paid all of her costs but some of the money came from needs-based financial aid and some of it is academic.

To the family, it was a 'full ride' and I agree with them


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PopEye

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Azure! Thanks for setting me straight! I was rushed and in between appointments and did not have time to reflect on the statement. Sorry about my haste to judgment.

Another item that is interesting is some schools offer scholarships based upon a percentage of money, while others are based open school credits.

Well, back to my next appointment.

azure

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Reply with quote  #21 
I think that 'how' they offer the scholarship (dollar amount, percentage, room and board, etc) is just packaging and how they choose to administer the money.  What really matters to the university is the amount of dollars divided by the cost of attendance (the percentage).  What matters to the family is the amount that they will actually have to pay.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #22 
Biscuit - "Full Ride" is too often an ego term. As I see it, and used to suggest to the parents of my ballplayers, "Just figure what it costs you out of pocket". That does not relate to either ego or necessarily athletic prowess, but it sure relates to economic realities, and if softball is a means toward an educational end, then the softball ego trip should be secondary to the achievement of the educational goal. I remember when I was pitching, pitchers used to lie about how much they were paid per game, inflating the numbers to inflate their egos. Silly stuff. I hear some parents do the same thing with scholarships. Equally silly stuff. All things being equal, work it out so that your child's education costs you as little out of pocket as is possible. That's all. Then be thankful for the educational and economic bonanza.
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azure

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Reply with quote  #23 
If a player was playing for a D3 school and had all of their costs covered by scholarship and grants, it would still be a 'full-ride'.  It's not a 'full-ride for softball' because D3 schools cannot give athletic scholarships.

IMO


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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #24 
azure - Now that sounds like a great bottom line to me.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
azure

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Reply with quote  #25 
Why should it matter if the money is coming from athletic aid or not?  Is it somehow better money or more prestigious because it's all athletic aid?  Are you a better athlete because your money is 75% athletic or 100% athletic?

Actually I think some programs do a pretty darn good job keeping those scholarships secret.  Myself, I'm all for transparency.


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quietstorm

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Reply with quote  #26 

Quote:
Originally Posted by azure
Why should it matter if the money is coming from athletic aid or not?  Is it somehow better money or more prestigious because it's all athletic aid?  Are you a better athlete because your money is 75% athletic or 100% athletic?

Actually I think some programs do a pretty darn good job keeping those scholarships secret.  Myself, I'm all for transparency.

 

 

Azure, you know it is all about bragging rights. A parent that can give the perception that the money all came from athletics now "in theory" has the better softball player. When, in reality the parent that has equal athletic and academic $$$, (IMO) has the better STUDENT-ATHLETE. And should be very proud!

 

 

SouthernPride

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Reply with quote  #27 
This conversation is crazy. I don't think anyone cares if a Stanford or Notre Dame athlete is on academic fulls or athletic fulls. There is no perception that Jane Doe at ABC State school is a better athlete.
Asacoach

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Reply with quote  #28 

A few years ago a local high school player was giving a scholarship to a tremendous DI. This was reported by the school and the press.  Which I questioned, because I knew this young ladies skills and it didn't match the money given.  Later to find out that she was given books only.  It's all how you want to present it.  Obviously, it was some sort of scholarship, any money is better than no money at all. 

vcaldwell

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Reply with quote  #29 
I think the fascination with the "full ride" comes from high profile men's sports. Most daddys' only experience with athletic scholarships are probably based on football or basketball. Both of which, I believe, are all or nothing scholarships. (unlike softball) Therefore, if a HS football player gets a "full ride" he must be one of the best because MANY college players are playing with no scholarship so those that do get them must be the best players. I think this perception is what has carried over to the softball bragging of a "full ride". Basically, my kid is better then yours. The same logic carries over to D1 vs D2 or D3. If my kid is playing D1 she is better than yours who is playing D3. Guess what.... if my kids is going to a D3 she is probably getting a better education than yours is AND I know of MANY D3 programs that routinely beat D1 programs.

Personally, I'll be happy if DD picks a school where she can get a good education and a program where she can contribute. Academic money is better than athletic and I hope she qualifies for some of both.

JMHO,
Vic

AZBCEAGLE

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Reply with quote  #30 

More generalizations--depends on the company.  Depends on the region you are applying for a job, depends on the alumni at the business etc...  Whichever school provides you with the leadership, motivation and direction to be successful is the one that will help you be the most successful. 

 

I agree with smaller schools you have an OPPORTUNITY to do better, only because studies show students at all levels of academia perform higher in smaller classes--that's a no brainer...however I know the same amount of people who thrived at the Ohio State's, UCLA's and Texas' as at the d3 level schools

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