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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist



I know you like the pabar and narator to chase you around on terms.


He's always liked anyone who would do that.  He is the Bill Clinton of word definition semantics, depending on what the meaning of 'definition' is

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #62 
Except he’s not quite as good as slick willie. Gets routinely rolled by an idiot like me.

This latest embarrassment might lead to another sabbatical and a new screen name.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #63 
  "But until you explain the $9.1T in new debt over 8 years..."

President Bush raised our debt over 100% in his eight years and Obama raised it about 86% when all was said and done.  Bush took a balanced budget with revenue about $2 trillion and spending about $1.9 trillion and turned over a $2.1 trillion revenue and spending well over $3 trillion eight years later.  Our deficit was huge (again the deficit is what you lose in a year and the debt is the number we have borrowed that gets higher and higher when you add each year's loss).

President Obama managed to reduce our annual loss to a third of what he inherited by the time he left but debt still grew each year as each year still showed a loss.  There was no way to avoid this added debt but a good President lowered our loss each year.  Fortunately the GOP didn't win in 2008 or the debt may have gone up $13 trillion rather than $9 trillion with more reduced revenue from their favorite theme of tax cuts which lowers our revenue growth which increases our loss.

Now with Trump in office, here we go again.  More revenue reductions and more spending.  The GOP plans to borrow from future generations to build up defense and build a border wall.  If we end up going to war with North Korea, does anyone think we'll raise some taxes to pay for it?  Of course not.  We'll borrow from future generations to pay for that war too.  Already the deficit number is climbing again and it will only go up and up.  Hopefully eight years from now no one will have to ask why the debt got so much higher.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/27/obama-added-7-917-trillion-to-the-national-debt-68-percent-spike/


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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
  There was no way to avoid this added debt but a good President lowered our loss each year.  


Thanks to the GOP congress and the 1.28 trillion they saved the American taxpayers that President Obama wanted to spend.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #65 
WIW:
Quote:
The GOP plans to borrow from future generations to build up defense...


Stop there. Go back and rework your numbers based on the notion that typical Democratic leadership goals are to strip the military to mythical 'peace time' levels of readiness and understand that some of We The People support the notion that the Federal government's charter is to follow The Constitution and provide for a common defense.

Oh, and the Fresh Prince and I object to your use of our first name.

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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #66 
Yes, there are Democrats who think the defense budget is sufficient just as there are Democrats who support strengthening our defense.  My concern is over deficit.  I believe most Democrats want to pay for our defense and our wars out of our tax dollars, not the dollars of future generations.  If we are going to fight North Korea, if we are going to spend more on defense, charge this society with the expense, not the next one.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Lost_1

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Posts: 3,522
Reply with quote  #67 
Mr. Smith with the DDT on dewey.



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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
YI believe most Democrats want to pay for our defense and our wars out of our tax dollars, not the dollars of future generations. 


All evidence to the contrary according to the information posted above that you fail to address.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #69 
That is simply not true.  I won't try to claim Democrats aren't willing to spend more money on things like pension relief, assistance for poor, veterans care, infrastructure, and education than the Right wants to spend.  I'll concede that point.  My comments are to note Democrats are willing to raise the money simultaneously, yes taxes, to pay for the services many Americans want and they are against passing the expense of our commitments on to future generations.  If taxes were allowed under Democrat Presidents, the deficit would go away and we could start paying down our debt.  The outrage from the Right would go up but our debt would go down. 

The Republican approach is to borrow the money (assuming they can't cut spending enough) if we don't take in enough revenue to pay for our bills and our wars.  From my perspective, that's passing our obligations to others.  At the very least we shouldn't reduce our tax obligation more while our annual losses are so huge and our demand for more defense and border wall remains so high.  Seriously, who does the Right want to pay for more investment in these areas?  They'll say they want to take it out of welfare/Medicaid but it won't happen and they'll borrow it instead.  I think that's inappropriate for our society to do.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #70 
Wrong.  Your claim was that "Democrat Presidents are not big spenders".  If you want to address raising taxes to lower debt, then create a thread to do that.  I simply pointed out that President Obama would have added 1.28 Trillion to the debt if the GOP controlled congress would not have stopped him.  Congress controls the purse strings, not the President.  Your claim, as it relates to President Obama and spending, has been proven false.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #71 
The Right has moved from Democrats spend us into oblivion to Democrats "would like" to spend us into oblivion.  Only one theory at a time please.  Whatever the theory being put forth, history shows spending has gone up less while a Democrat President is in office.  This still doesn't explain 6% and 7.8% spending growth under GOP Presidents.  Spending can't be increased without (corrected) a signature from the President so Congress can't be the only blame. 

With that said, the need to spur the economy and to rebuild infrastructure did lead Obama to request more spending, which he surely offset with revenue requests, and he didn't get very far.  President Trump says it's time for infrastructure spending and I suspect he'll get support from the Right.  I don't know how this GOP flip flop supports any theory about Democrats being outrageous spenders.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
The Right has moved from Democrats spend us into oblivion to Democrats "would like" to spend us into oblivion. 


LOL dewey - you are consistent if nothing else.

Just countering your theory.  Sorry if the facts hurt.  Obama would have spent 1.28 trillion more over the last six years if it were not for the GOP congress.  You will never address that fact.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #73 
The Trump budget requests $4.094 trillion in FY2018 spending.  We'll see where we end up on final budget and, assuming it's more than this as GOP has hinted already, we'll look forward to analysis from the Right as to what that means when it comes to "big spenders".
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #74 
GOP are big spenders too - those on the right don't try to skew facts to say otherwise.
Glad to see we have finally hit the number that you think is too much to spend - 4.094 Trillion.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #75 
Considering inflation and population growth, where is the percentage line in annual spending growth where it becomes big spending versus expected spending?

I predicted FY2018 spending to be be about $4.2T and never suggested if it were too high or too low.  That depends on what is included.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #76 
Let's stay on the topic of the thread - the American people can thank the GOP congress that the Obama administration didn't send us 1.28 trillion more into debt by allowing additional requested spending.
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 3,983
Reply with quote  #77 
They'll thank them until the end of this year.  Now who do they thank for tax cuts that raise deficits?
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 3,983
Reply with quote  #78 
Stifle revenue + increase spending = Double whammy and rising deficits
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
They'll thank them until the end of this year.


As long as them, and the future children, thank them.
uwApoligist

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Posts: 14,346
Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Stifle revenue + increase spending = Double whammy and rising deficits
\
Which is exactly what odummer did.

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Just say no to dullards.   
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
Let's stay on the topic of the thread - the American people can thank the GOP congress that the Obama administration didn't send us 1.28 trillion more into debt by allowing additional requested spending.

Yes they can.   I think your savings number is quite conservative.  That if we had dem congress for odummers later terms we would have seen increases in spending that would have gone way beyond the 1.28T

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Just say no to dullards.   
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #82 
Obama was handed an economy headed for a $1.4 trillion deficit in 2009.  The eight year deficit could have been over $11 trillion but he turned the economy around and lowered our annual loss.  He passed on a $585 billion annual loss to the new President which means Trump is headed for about $5 trillion added debt assuming another eight year term.  I predict these tax cuts will now add significantly more to his total debt as it will likely exceed $6.  CBO says he will add about $7-$8 trillion to our debt.  We'll see which is more accurate but, clearly, the better loss picture a President inherits, the better his eight year outlook might be.

Btw, why did President Bush see our total debt rise by double (105%) during his eight year term?  How does the Right explain this result?  If you say big spending, highlight what specifically you have in mind.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

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Posts: 14,346
Reply with quote  #83 
First the economy was tanking because of democrat policies on freddie and fannie.  That was the main reason it all unravelled.  

But I will grant odummer was handed a turd by previous administration.  Bush should have done more to stop the dems from shooting themselves in the foot so viscously.  

US economy would have bounced back much faster if odummer was not dumping so much waste into the federal government and printing so much cash.

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Just say no to dullards.   
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Obama was handed an economy headed for a $1.4 trillion deficit in 2009.  The eight year deficit could have been over $11 trillion but he turned the economy around and lowered our annual loss.  He passed on a $585 billion annual loss to the new President which means Trump is headed for about $5 trillion added debt assuming another eight year term.  I predict these tax cuts will now add significantly more to his total debt as it will likely exceed $6.  CBO says he will add about $7-$8 trillion to our debt.  We'll see which is more accurate but, clearly, the better loss picture a President inherits, the better his eight year outlook might be.

Btw, why did President Bush see our total debt rise by double (105%) during his eight year term?  How does the Right explain this result?  If you say big spending, highlight what specifically you have in mind.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

You might recall the hundreds of times that Conservatives in this forum criticized Bush for his handling of the debt.

Dodd and Frank handed Obama a terrible economy.

How come for 8 years you like the debt increasing but now you don't?  Is it because you're a hypocritical lying coward who's afraid to use his original name?
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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #85 
If it wasn’t for the GOP Congress, President Obama would have at least (h/t to UWA) spent 1.28 trillion more. Wonder if that would trigger “big spender” status.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn


Btw, why did President Bush see our total debt rise by double (105%) during his eight year term?  How does the Right explain this result?  If you say big spending, highlight what specifically you have in mind.



Outside of spending on Medicare Part D ($85 billion per year for four years) how did Bush double our debt?  Must have some thoughts.  Where did he overspend beyond the budgets he inherited?

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #87 
You are asking yourself the question, go ahead and answer!

#willfulldewflection
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #88 
Too easy.  You really can't even think for yourself.  Always spinning in circles around dem talking points.

Economy tanked because of Dodd/Frank/Freddie/Fannie.  Revenue to the government tanked.  Spending stayed the same.  Deficit -> Debt.  

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Just say no to dullards.   
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #89 
Yes, that's partly right.  The debt doubled primarily because of the revenue side of the equation.  We can blame recession, 9/11, and tax cuts for stifling Government revenue during the last 17 years.  Revenue went backwards three times during the Bush years and it started well before the recession.  Of course the Right will try to blame the Left for any recession and the Left will blame GOP for reducing tax revenue as being the prime reason.  Americans will have to ultimately decide which they believe.

Let's go back to spending first.  Take away spending for the wars, take away stimulus spending due to a recession, and add the dollars Obama requested for spending, and what you have is a Government growing spending about 4% a year.  That's normal and Americans should expect that to be the case going forward.  We have decades to use as history. 

I previously noted we grew spending since 2000 at 5.3% a year, a little high due to the previously mentioned wars and stimulus.  But not crazy high.  Other periods saw 7.8% annual growth during our defense buildup in the 80's.  There will be examples of larger than normal growth rates in any given year but 4% is going to be about the normal case.  Maybe someday the GOP eliminates a program or department and changes a one year growth but, after that, the new annual spending level will grow at about 4% again.  All they'll change is the starting number.  As I said, it's just the norm due to inflation and population growth.  Maybe a little lower or a little higher but around this number.

So it all comes back to revenue.  This constant cutting of taxes is pushing our budget further south and extending the number of years before we can grow out of this pit.  Future generations must sacrifice because of it.  What I've been sharing is my opinion as to the reason behind the constant GOP drive to give tax relief.  The goal is to short the Government in order to eliminate a program or department.  It's that simple from my perspective.  Unfortunately for future generations, the deficit from tax reductions constantly fails in its goal to end programs because these are programs Americans want.  And the vicious cycle continues.  We'll go back and forth on taxes, we might even end a program or department some day, but we'll never stop growth in spending as math has too much control in this area.  Meanwhile, future generations will see standard of living suffer due to the debt we run up during our political battles.  Hopefully someday we'll stop the borrowing in order to force an agenda. It's unfair to others particularly when we borrow money to pay for our wars.  That's downright shameful.

Edit:  A quick check shows since 1980 spending grew 5.3% annually ($.59T in 1980 to $4.2T in 2018) and 4.5% annually since 1990 ($1.25T to $4.2T in 2018).

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

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Posts: 14,346
Reply with quote  #90 
did not read your drivel. 

Dodd/Frank/Fannie/Freddie caused the loan crises of 2008.  

When revenue to the government does down, spending should likewise go down.  

Now of course a good dem would argue that dropping spending at the same rate as revenue would worsen the recession, and that would be correct.  But spending at the government level could easily have shrank considerably after that size of a market correction, and we still would have helped the economy, not hurt it.  

Some debt made sense, maybe 2 or three years worth at 60% of what we were taking it on.  The rest is nonsense.  Spending at the levels we are now make no sense whatsoever. 

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Just say no to dullards.   
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