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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
The last nine years were the lowest annual spending growth since the Clinton years, 3.8%.  There was no large Obama spending as his years were lower than Bush who raised spending 6% per year.  I went to great trouble to post the numbers in post number one.  Take another look.

Did you see my numbers which show deficit as a ratio of GDP?  Shows Obama was the king of debt.  Which is what everyone knows, as it is easy as pie to measure.  $9.3T in additional debt.  Hard to get around that number.

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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #32 
keepinitreal 

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   #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce
Lord this thread sucks.






My poor keyboard, lost brown water all over it and may need to be replaced
 

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"What questions are not getting answered.  The only ones I see being avoided is "Why you switch from Dewey to Will I Wynn?"  and  "Why you switch from Bama_CF to Fresh?" and of course the best one that will never get answered, never in a million years... "When you bringing back KPI?"

Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #33 
 "So income to the government fell drastically." 

Take credit for slow spending growth as there is no way to prove who should get credit.  But as for revenue, Obama grew revenue significantly.  You are wrong again.

When Bush took office, Government revenue was $2T and when he left it was $2.1T.  President Obama took this $2.1 Trillion and grew it to $3.315 Trillion.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
 "So income to the government fell drastically." 

Take credit for slow spending growth as there is no way to prove who should get credit.  But as for revenue, Obama grew revenue significantly.  You are wrong again.

When Bush took office, Government revenue was $2T and when he left it was $2.1T.  President Obama took this $2.1 Trillion and grew it to $3.315 Trillion.

$9.1T in new debt.  Just explain that, we will get into the rest once you grapple that fact.

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #35 
He has but you ignore it. 
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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #36 
If you hand a new President a Government with $2 trillion in revenue and $3 trillion in spending, the new President is going to add more debt to our total.  There is no way to avoid it.  Same with President Trump.  He will add much more debt to the total before he is done and then we'll decide how much he should be held responsible for.  His tax cuts will probably add more to the debt and I'll blame him for that.  I won't blame him for the rest of the added debt unless he allows spending to take off while stifling revenue even more.


President Bush numbers:

Revenue 2001             Spending 2001
$2 trillion                   $1.86 Trillion

Revenue 2009             Spending 2009
$2.1 trillion                 $3.1 trillion

President Obama numbers:

Revenue 2009             Spending 2009
$2.1 trillion                 $3.1 trillion

Revenue 2017             Spending 2017
$3.315 trillion              $3.98 trillion

Obama cut the deficit in half.


__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Fresh

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Reply with quote  #37 
Stop it.....oowwaa will have to stop accusing you of dodging him. I frankly think he might not understand it. Might explain his incessant whining about name changes and not answering questions. Let's see if he has the balls to address this latest post. I seriously doubt it.
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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
If you hand a new President a Government with $2 trillion in revenue and $3 trillion in spending, the new President is going to add more debt to our total.  There is no way to avoid it.  Same with President Trump.  He will add much more debt to the total before he is done and then we'll decide how much he should be held responsible for.  His tax cuts will probably add more to the debt and I'll blame him for that.  I won't blame him for the rest of the added debt unless he allows spending to take off while stifling revenue even more.


President Bush numbers:

Revenue 2001             Spending 2001
$2 trillion                   $1.86 Trillion

Revenue 2009             Spending 2009
$2.1 trillion                 $3.1 trillion

President Obama numbers:

Revenue 2009             Spending 2009
$2.1 trillion                 $3.1 trillion

Revenue 2017             Spending 2017
$3.315 trillion              $3.98 trillion

Obama cut the deficit in half.


Total debt attributed to presidents.

Obama $7.917T
GW Bush $5.849T
Clinton $1.396T
GHW Bush $1.554T
Reagan $1.886T

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Stop it.....oowwaa will have to stop accusing you of dodging him. I frankly think he might not understand it. Might explain his incessant whining about name changes and not answering questions. Let's see if he has the balls to address this latest post. I seriously doubt it.

cherry picking one year.  no one is dumb enough to go for that, right freshie?

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Stop it.....oowwaa will have to stop accusing you of dodging him. I frankly think he might not understand it. Might explain his incessant whining about name changes and not answering questions. Let's see if he has the balls to address this latest post. I seriously doubt it.


Not bad

Image result for ed mcmahon

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #41 
BTW: While I voted for Bush, and would vote for him again, and felt he was a good man, hell a great man.  I was not that found of his last four years in office.  He allowed the Dems to abuse him and screwed the economy and ultimately the American taxpayer on the way out the door.  Horrible approach.



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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #42 
If President Obama had inherited a budget with revenue at $1 trillion and spending at $3 trillion, he would have added much more debt to our total over his eight years.  These debt numbers mean almost nothing to me as a President has little control over the total.  He can increase or decrease them somewhat if he can get tax increases passed or legislation that will stimulate the economy.  In any case, it takes time to grow the revenue back up again.  The economy a President inherits has a lot to do with the added debt during his term.  There is little he can do about the loss, particularly if increased tax revenue is off limits.  President Obama appeared to have exceeded expectations based on what he inherited.  If he had increased spending at 6% annually like the Bush years, while our deficits were so high, he would have deserved criticizm.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
 "So income to the government fell drastically." 

Take credit for slow spending growth as there is no way to prove who should get credit.  But as for revenue, Obama grew revenue significantly.  You are wrong again.

When Bush took office, Government revenue was $2T and when he left it was $2.1T.  President Obama took this $2.1 Trillion and grew it to $3.315 Trillion.


He raised taxes - led to the worst recovery in history.

Congratulations.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #44 
How many of Obama’s 8 years did the administration submit a budget?
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
If President Obama had inherited a budget with revenue at $1 trillion and spending at $3 trillion, he would have added much more debt to our total over his eight years.  These debt numbers mean almost nothing to me as a President has little control over the total.  He can increase or decrease them somewhat if he can get tax increases passed or legislation that will stimulate the economy.  In any case, it takes time to grow the revenue back up again.  The economy a President inherits has a lot to do with the added debt during his term.  There is little he can do about the loss, particularly if increased tax revenue is off limits.  President Obama appeared to have exceeded expectations based on what he inherited.  If he had increased spending at 6% annually like the Bush years, while our deficits were so high, he would have deserved criticizm.

He gets criticism anyway.  $9.1T in new debt.  9.8% deficit to GDP ratios some years.  Horrible results.  Even Obama would have to be embarrassed by those numbers.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
How many of Obama’s 8 years did the administration submit a budget?

zero

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #47 
Obama submitted his budget request each year in office.  Look it up.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #48 
Did congress follow his request or was the final budget different on spending totals?
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #49 
When Americans sit down and analyze President Obama inherited a Government taking in a trillion dollars less than it spent, they will understand the greatness of his reducing our deficit by half.  They will see he kept spending growth under 4% (actually closer to 3.5%) while growing our revenue by over 6.5% annually with little help from the GOP.  Add this to the growth of the economy and stock market, the added jobs, the reduced UE rate, and it will forever be remembered as a very successful Presidency.

Look at Obama's first and last year budget totals and tell us where they should have been after his eight years.  If we had known the revenue and spending totals would led to cutting deficit in half, it would have been welcome news.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #50 
[image]
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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Spending

In fiscal 2008, this Country spent $2.98T on the Federal budget.  Since then and through FY2017, the annual increase in spending has been 3.8% per year, the lowest nine year average since the Clinton years.  Whether one credits a President, a GOP Congress, or a tight budget process for this lower growth, it is important to note that there will be growth in spending due to larger population (more children, more on SS, more on Medicare, etc.) and due to inflation.  That said, most growing Companies can't grow their budgets less than 3.8% annually.  It's simply wrong to say Democrat Presidents are spending our way into oblivion.

As a comparison, in 1980 we spent $.59T which grew to $1.25T in 1990.  We averaged about 7.8% spending increase each year as we climbed over one trillion in spending.  The $1.25T 1990 spending amount grew to $1.65T in 1998, a 3.7% annual spending growth.  This was our lowest spending growth period during the last forty years.  Our 1998 spending of $1.65T grew to $2.98T in 2008, which was 6% growth each year.  Since then, we have restrained spending growth by almost half and during the last nine years growth has been about 3.8% yearly.

1980 - $.59T
1990 - $1.25T
1998 - $1.65T
2008 - $2.98T
2017 - $4.00T

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

As for SS, it still breaks out about even at this time and doesn't affect the budget.  Medicare taxes only pay about 60% of the cost and do affect the budget.  Cutting Medicare and SS for current retirees is not the solution.  Increasing the SS and Medicare tax, coupled with age adjustments, are the ultimate solutions and probably years away from being addressed.  The GOP will not allow tax increases.

During the last 37 years, 1980-2017, spending has increased about 5.3% annually.  Over the last nine years we're down to 3.8% on average.  Keep these facts in mind when you hear the Right say spending is driving our debt up.  The truth is revenue growth is lagging far behind since 2000 and these tax cuts, which keep returning during GOP Administrations, are significantly contributing to a decrease in growth of Government revenue (actually going backwards during some of the Bush years) and growing our annual deficit which increases our debt.  Imagine how much larger the increase in our annual deficit would be if the GOP chose to cut the SS tax and the Medicare tax like they choose to cut income tax rates?  The deficit would go up billions and billions more as more Government revenue would be lost.

Numbers explain the budget process and this is a case of one Party (the GOP) stifling the revenue growth with tax cuts which then drives up an annual deficit (loss).  Once the budget is turned into a loss, the goal of the GOP is that we'll be forced to shrink Government in order to make ends meet.  Since the spending we partake in is mostly supported by the American people, and continues to grow a bit as 37 years of historical charts will show, the GOP goal to cut spending fails and we end up borrowing more from future generations to cover the shortages created by our political budget fights.  Nobody should see a 3.8% growth in Government spending as outrageous and deserving of inaccurate GOP attacks describing out of control spending.  If we want to stop borrowing money, we need to understand tax cuts, particularly to wealthy families, are the real enemy to our budget, and are meant to force us into an agreement to cut Government spending.  If we were growing spending at the 6% or 7% levels of the Bush and Reagan years, I'd argue differently.  But we're not.



__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
Did congress follow his request or was the final budget different on spending totals?


Any answers Wylie? You quickly found the amount president trump submitted - shouldn’t be hard to find Obama’s.

Edit: looks like the GOP congress cut some of the spending. According to Wyll we spent 4.00 trillion. Will research more years tomorrow.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obamas-final-budget-proposal-calls-for-an-almost-5-percent-spending-boost/2016/02/09/0286da7e-cf3a-11e5-b2bc-988409ee911b_story.html?utm_term=.ade1355583b6

President Obama sent the final budget proposal of his presidency to Congress on Tuesday, a $4.15 trillion package that will mark the closing rounds of a long-running fiscal battle with Republicans in Congress over the nation’s spending priorities.

uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

He gets criticism anyway.  $9.1T in new debt.  9.8% deficit to GDP ratios some years.  Horrible results.  Even Obama would have to be embarrassed by those numbers.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #54 
A little more insight into Dewey/Wyllie's project shows the GOP house certainly held President Obama in check on spending, to the tune of 1.28 Trillion dollars over seven years, for an average of 182.85 billion dollars a year.  In the four previous years under dem control, the house spent 29 Billion more than was requested.

2017 President Obama requested 4.15T, 4.062 was spent (90 Billion) - GOP house
2016 - 4.0T requested, 3.85T was spent - (150 Billion) - GOP house
2015 - 3.9T requested, 3.68T was spent - (220 Billion) - GOP house
2014 - 3.77T requested, 3.50T was spent - (200 Billion) - GOP house
2013 - 3.67T requested, 3.45T was spent - (220 Billion) - GOP house
2012 - 3.73T requested, 3.53T was spent - (200 Billion) - GOP house
2011 - 3.80T requested, 3.60T was spent - (200 Billion) - GOP house
2010 - 3.52T requested, 3.45T was spent - (70 Billion) - DEM house
2009 - President Bush requested 3.10T, 3.51T was spent - 41 Billion - DEM house
2008 - 2.90 requested, 2.98T was spent - 80 Billion - DEM house
2007 - 2.80T requested, 2.786 was spent - (22 Billion) - DEM house




Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #55 
Based on history, our federal budget will most likely look like this if tax cuts don't hurt our revenue:

Year                    Revenue                 Spending            Deficit

2017                   $3.32T                    $3.98T               $.67T
2018                   $3.44T                    $4.14T               $.70T
2019                   $3.59T                    $4.31T               $.72T


It would be incredible to suggest our revenue will increase by $300 billion (with these new tax cuts) and our spending can drop $400 billion and become:

2018                   $3.62T                   $3.58T                Surplus

I expect the numbers will be closer to $3.4T and $4.2T and the first budget Trump submitted said spending would be $4.14T as indicated above.  In fact, spending may be significantly higher than $4.2T and tax cuts may actually lower revenue in 2018 when compared to 2017.  More likely tax cuts will just reduce the gain that otherwise would have been and revenue will rise very slightly.
 

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #56 
Not really the right thread for this.

I understand your wanting to change the subject after having the premise of the thread blown up.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #57 
"Imagine if the GOP Controlled house would not have rained in Obama spending."

President Obama did want to invest more in infrastructure to both spur the economy and to improve our Country.  Of course, he also proposed new revenue avenues to pay for his spending.  In any event, the low 3.8% annual growth in spending will likely jump dramatically (see Reagan and Bush years) as a GOP Congress will approve many of the new spending requests made by President Trump.  We'll check back in October to see how FY2018 ends.

Edit:  This thread is to both show Democrats aren't the big spenders the Right makes them out to be and to illustrate the deficit problem we're experiencing is primarily in the revenue side of the equation, tax cuts to be precise.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 7,836
Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
"Imagine if the GOP Controlled house would not have rained in Obama spending."

President Obama did want to invest more in infrastructure to both spur the economy and to improve our Country.  Of course, he also proposed new revenue avenues to pay for his spending.  In any event, the low 3.8% annual growth in spending will likely jump dramatically (see Reagan and Bush years) as a GOP Congress will approve many of the new spending requests made by President Trump.  We'll check back in October to see how FY2018 ends.


The title of the the thread directly mentions spending, not revenues.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
"Imagine if the GOP Controlled house would not have rained in Obama spending."

President Obama did want to invest more in infrastructure to both spur the economy and to improve our Country.  Of course, he also proposed new revenue avenues to pay for his spending.  In any event, the low 3.8% annual growth in spending will likely jump dramatically (see Reagan and Bush years) as a GOP Congress will approve many of the new spending requests made by President Trump.  We'll check back in October to see how FY2018 ends.

Edit:  This thread is to both show Democrats aren't the big spenders the Right makes them out to be and to illustrate the deficit problem we're experiencing is primarily in the revenue side of the equation, tax cuts to be precise.

No tax cuts for 8 years.  $9.1T in new debt.

I know you like the pabar and narator to chase you around on terms.  But it until you explain the $9.1T in new debt over 8 years, no tax cuts, then it comes up as silly games.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #60 
Would’ve been another 1.6 trillion if it wasn’t for the Republican Congress.
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