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rudymartinez

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Reply with quote  #151 
No need to apologize Eurl. I will continue to use sardonic statements to express my contempt for those who cannot recognize ridicule and derision. Obviously, like a 12 year old boy, it just pleases myself.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #152 
If you don't mind, explain this more: "As for the military and pigs, just pawns for ultra-elite. "
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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #153 
BTW: Eurl, that is funny.   I told you guys we would like Rudy. 
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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
rudymartinez

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Reply with quote  #154 
OK Udub here goes -

The military-industrial complex needs war to make money. War requires soldiers. The military-industrialist invent reasons for war, essentially every conflict since WWII. Our soldiers are only useful when able to engage in combat. Hence the appalling care or lack of care for  the  wounded and disabled men and women by the VA administration. As for the police, although I believe they are mindless lackys, they do have a limited purpose. In the all to near future when robot soldiers and cops are in place, we won't have to worry about the human element.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #155 
Rudy..is that really you?
rudymartinez

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Reply with quote  #156 
Yes Freshy, it is I. Do not be afraid.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #157 
Looks like a melding of Oliver Stone and Elon Musk...
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #158 
A conspiracy wacko and a guy that has stolen billions of tax dollars in subsidies to fund his pet projects. Quite a combo.
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#SCOTUS
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #159 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudymartinez
OK Udub here goes -

The military-industrial complex needs war to make money. War requires soldiers. The military-industrialist invent reasons for war, essentially every conflict since WWII. Our soldiers are only useful when able to engage in combat. Hence the appalling care or lack of care for  the  wounded and disabled men and women by the VA administration. As for the police, although I believe they are mindless lackys, they do have a limited purpose. In the all to near future when robot soldiers and cops are in place, we won't have to worry about the human element.

Who is "military-industrial' complex?  Do they have names, can we pin 'them' down?  Like is it CEO Boeing - Dennis Muilenburg, CEO Lockheed - Marillyn Hewson, CEO Raytheon Thomas Kennedy ...   Or are these guys are also just mindless lackys caught up in it all like us?

Who shall control these robot soldiers of the near future?   These CEOs, politicians, community police boards?   What algorithms do they run?  For instance could these robots try to right the wrong of racial bias by only arresting X number criminals from specific races, then just stop and let the rest go?  Since we have not invented a 'mind' yet, those robot soldiers would definitely be mindless.  Not sure why we replace mindless lackys with mindless robots. 

Interesting take on things.  Quite different from Early's.  It has me thinking.   

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
rudymartinez

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Reply with quote  #160 
Military industrial complex?  Eisenhower, as President and former Supreme Commander of WWII defined it in his exit speech from the office. It's the ultimate shell corporation. Everybody answers to somebody. We'll never know. As for robots, much superior human lackys, who may occasionally suffer a twinge of compassion.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #161 
uwA, you seem not to understand some basic facts................

* Governments don't make bombs, weapons and ammunition - they buy 'em.............


Another basic fact............

* Governments don't have the money to buy this terribly expensive war stuff, so they borrow the money...........


The people who print the money, at no cost to them, and loan the money to the Government, also own the factories who make, and sell, the war stuff to the Government...........

The Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about is, well, alive-and-well............And, if this group of people didn't want wars, there wouldn't be any........We didn't listen to Eisenhower...........
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #162 
As our industrial culture winds down, unfortunately it's consequences ramp up. The five percent of our species who live in the USA have burned through a grossly disproportionate amount of the planet's non-renewable energy and resources, and produced a grossly disproportionate amount of carbon dioxide.  
Nearly all of the members of our species who live outside the handful of industrial nations, and a large chunk of citizens who live in them, have had the displeasure of carrying most of the costs of our reckless resource extraction, while receiving few if any of the benefits.
People around the globe, and our kin, will have to live with and deal with the depleted and damaged planet that we are leaving them. 


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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
woody

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Reply with quote  #163 
Well, that sounds like a load of crap. We helped industrialize the modern world. If other countries didn't have the societal and economic ability to advance, that's not our fault. If you want to say our young industrial surge is responsible for all the words environmental woes, I call even bigger BS. Look at China, and India, and tell me how their foray into industrialization has played out for the environment.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #164 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce
As our industrial culture winds down, unfortunately it's consequences ramp up. The five percent of our species who live in the USA have burned through a grossly disproportionate amount of the planet's non-renewable energy and resources, and produced a grossly disproportionate amount of carbon dioxide.  
Nearly all of the members of our species who live outside the handful of industrial nations, and a large chunk of citizens who live in them, have had the displeasure of carrying most of the costs of our reckless resource extraction,  NEGATIVE while receiving few if any of the benefits.
People around the globe, and our kin, will have to live with and deal with the depleted and damaged planet that we are leaving them. 



Sucks to be them in many ways

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #165 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Well, that sounds like a load of crap. We helped industrialize the modern world. If other countries didn't have the societal and economic ability to advance, that's not our fault. If you want to say our young industrial surge is responsible for all the words environmental woes, I call even bigger BS. Look at China, and India, and tell me how their foray into industrialization has played out for the environment.


I understand what you are saying. Help me understand exactly what part of what I wrote this morning that you think is inaccurate? I wasn't laying fault, I was stating facts. We in the US had a big head start on massive-scale extraction and depletion of fossil fuels.  And I'm including China and India in the group of 'industrial nations' that I'm talking about. 

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


Sucks to be them in many ways


Agreed. And it will suck for nearly everyone 100 years from now. We have burned through a billion years of stored sunlight in 400 years, and our great-grandkids and their families won't be able to un-ring that bell.

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
woody

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Reply with quote  #167 
I feel no aingst for our developing into a superpower, while other nations lived like savages. If we used huge amounts of fossil fuels and non renewable resources in order to be a safe and prosperous nation, led the world in scientific innovation, so what. We also passed along our science, agriculture and medicine to other nations. Don't go around on an apology tour like Obama. We are a nation of people with the intelligence to create greatt things that helped the world. When fossil fuels ever run short, and economics necessitates new forms of energy to be developed, it will likely be our nation on the leading edge of technological development again. Stop apologizing for not living in a grass hut and watching your children die of diseases that we eradicated because of our will and determination to do great things.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #168 
Not sure where you are reading angst or an apology. Although I would say that an apology to future generations would be appropriate, but we will be gone before that bill comes due.
I'm trying to be as objective and factual as possible. No reason to compare me to obama. I have a different belief as to the non-fossil fuel future, and I don't believe that any yet-unknown technology will save us. (And by save us, I mean that same thing that I think you mean when you say 'economics necessitates new forms of energy")
Not sure what to make of the grass hut thing. But I thank you for adding to the thread. I'm not getting much traction. 
To narrow things down, I'll leave this straight-forward statement. Humans are drawing down a billion years of stored sunlight (fossil fuels) over a period of roughly four hundred years. It is non-renewable. It will be effectively exhausted in maybe 40 years. Most of our great technological achievements over the last 100 years were possible due to cheap energy. I hope the new technology arrives soon. I know it won't be fusion/fission/solar/wind/hydrogen.
 

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
woody

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Reply with quote  #169 
How do you know it won't be fusion, or fission? What about hydro? My thought is that we are going to see a combination of technologies used in conjunction on micro grids. These grids are already established in solar rich areas. The down side is at night they can't stand alone with current storage devices. So, we develop better storage. That takes money and resources. The other major player will be increased efficiency of not just lighting, but in particular motor loads. If you want to manufacture goods efficiently, you will need electric motors or pneumatic motors that are extremely efficient Once we have made all these great leaps in technology, then those that can afford it can use it, and feel good that they aren't using fossil fuels. I'm not sure where that leaves the undeveloped parts of the world, or even parts of the United States. We can show 3rd world countries our shining new technology, even show them how to develop it, but they will likely lack the economy to provide it to anyone other than the wealthy or political leadership. Everyone else gets to live in their grass hut.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #170 
Quote:
 Humans are drawing down a billion years of stored sunlight (fossil fuels) over a period of roughly four hundred years. 


Grayce, every time you say this, I'll dispute it............The Bible tells us the earth has been in existence for only 4,000 - 6,000 years...........


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #171 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce
Not sure where you are reading angst or an apology. Although I would say that an apology to future generations would be appropriate, but we will be gone before that bill comes due.
 


Again, you are looking at tomorrows problems with today's eyes.  What do you think our parents would have thought about an I-phone when they were kids?

American ingenuity is the greatest resource (if it doesn't get killed off by socialist on the left), and they will find a way.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #172 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog


Grayce, every time you say this, I'll dispute it............The Bible tells us the earth has been in existence for only 4,000 - 6,000 years...........




Geology 101

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #173 
Actually we already have several ways.  It is really just an economics problem.

Fission alone could double our base load ability and half our fossil fuel consumption.  Problem is that would not do anything.  The reason we spend the last 30 years transition to Natural Gas is that was all fossil fuels we were burning off for free.  We are now capturing, and using to produce electricity.   It was deemed that using ng that was going to get flared off is less costly and less environmentally damaging that the nasty fission materials left from running nuke plants. 

Our only problem right now is making the alternatives less expensive than the fossil fuels.   There will be a 20-30 year transition.  

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
woody

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Reply with quote  #174 
We have the economy and infrastructure to do it, but what about 3rd world countries? Who pays for them to get free stuff we did the R&D on?
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
We have the economy and infrastructure to do it, but what about 3rd world countries? Who pays for them to get free stuff we did the R&D on?

Once our economy implements something prices drop drastically.  After making it reasonable marketplace technology for America, the next engineering effort is to drive the cost down as far as possible.  That is both to maximize American profits, but also to make technology in foreign lands. 

If people were truly interested in reducing CO2 there is a clear series of easy to accomplish steps.  Get LNG going.  Get solar to the next level.  Get batteries to the next level.  Get windmills more efficient.  Continue to invest in longer term physics problems.  Space solar concentrators, Fusion.






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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #176 
Sounds like this is a conversation brewing between friends for a few years?  Am I correct?
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
EarlyGrayce

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Posts: 4,374
Reply with quote  #177 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog


Grayce, every time you say this, I'll dispute it............The Bible tells us the earth has been in existence for only 4,000 - 6,000 years...........




I wouldn't have it any other way.

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #178 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Sounds like this is a conversation brewing between friends for a few years?  Am I correct?


You talking to me?

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #179 
The rise and fall of 'Civilizations' over the last five thousand years of recorded history has many relevant lessons, but I'm thinking that the most important lesson is that they are Temporary.

To the disciples of the religion of Progress, every previous society was just a way station on the road that led to us. The believers of Progress think that things will just continue to a future that is just like our present, only more so.

This makes it easier to marginalize and minimize the VAST differences between previous civilizations and ours. I suspect, however,  that the civilization that follows us will be unlikely to resemble ours.

In any case, Civilizations typically take about 1,000 years to cycle through their normal life cycle and collapse.  After collapse, there is ALWAYS a period of time before a new civilization emerges, and that period of time we have named Dark Ages. Many people misunderstand this cycle, and think that there has only been one 'dark age' period. That is incorrect. They reappear about every 1,000 years. The last dark ages (precipitated by the collapse of the Roman civilization) ended around 1000 C.E.







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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #180 
Evolution is an accepted fact to most people (dog notwithstanding).

Humans evolved being surrounded by and immersed in Nature. Then 'Civilization' came along, which by definition is the creation of a living environment that excludes Nature. 

'Civilization' also allows humans to be intensely creative, as they no longer have to spend mental energy on issues that all prior humans dealt with in Nature as they evolved. Over the thousand year run of a 'Civilization', humans create many orders of magnitude more of the products of culture (religious traditions, art, etc.) than their non-civilized counterparts.

Unfortunately, without the corrective feedback of Nature, humans make bad global and regional choices. Without the negative feedback loops of Nature to correct us, we don't notice that failure is taking place. We live a self-feeding delusion that always collapses.

A metaphor from the plant world will help:
Civilizations are Annuals, putting all of their energy into one glorious flowering process, then going to seed and dying, while non-civilized societies are Perennials, flowering less spectacularly, but remaining green and alive thereafter.

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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