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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #31 

Guys, it's knee jerk populist agenda. Problem perceived, solution offered, elected officials make law (after consulting with their big money lobbyists) and maybe, just maybe, the result is actually successful in bringing about a desired effect. As spazsdad notes, panders to the public perception, though I would point out that some "low information voters" aren't idiots. Quite the opposite. It comes down to a spin on the "Zero Sum" economics theory. In this case, what footprint is our population actually placing on the planet's ability to sustain resources?

Most regulations placed on the consumer are only a drop in the environmental bucket of resources and waste.


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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #32 
bhblue- Thanks for the link. Granted, biased slant to be sure, but even the most simple math might reveal that the increased weight of transporting paper bags to stores in place of plastic might use more fossil fuel in shipping that saved by converting consumer bagging at stores from plastic to paper.
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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #33 
Basic American philosophical question - "How does it affect the bottom line?".   Therein lies an answer.  
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"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #34 
JG - The fact that polyethylene, the resin used for grocery bags, does not leech any toxins has nothing to do philosophies or bottom lines. How about you find a source that shows HOPE does leech, DC?
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Basic American philosophical question - "How does it affect the bottom line?".   Therein lies an answer.  

In the case of liberal agenda that is hardly the case. They don't care because it is never their money being spent.

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith
As spazsdad notes, panders to the public perception, though I would point out that some "low information voters" aren't idiots.

I never said they were idiots just that swallow whole the propaganda from many various social causes. They will tell you something is bad because someone told them it is bad without ever being able to explain why, or how, or even if it is bad. Especially prevalent regarding environmental issues.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #37 
It's easy for me to accept sides can disagree on these various issues but as soon as it's suggested one side is more susceptible to swallowing hook, line and sinker, then I find a response to be necessary.

First, we have the two threads here.  One has readily swallowed how California is foolish in her environmental concerns and the other has gulped down the "global cooling" theme.  Both themes being presented by Conservatives passing along everything they accept to be true.  Please tell me which political side is absorbing and promoting propaganda in these two cases here?

Conservatives will tell you lowering tax rates will increase revenue and then ignore how after Bush lowered rates, revenues dropped three of the eight years, when compared year to year.  Unprecedented in our history.  Conservatives will tell you providing preventive care to poor citizens is bad and ignore the lives that have been saved thanks to early detection.  I suppose they've been convinced the cost to save these lives is prohibitive but, to show how easily they can swallow a theme of a different flavor, they're quick to join the crowd who questions this President, with regards to international affairs, for not taking supposed life saving steps immediately and at any and all costs.

Add in those here who took their serving of "orbital fracture" and "a dozen eyewitnesses with contrary testimony" in our recent Missouri case, shared it with all of us, without hesitation, as maybe being factual, and I think I've made a fair case how all sides are capable of being spoon fed.  I'm guessing almost everybody knew this already.

Edit:  Oh yeah.  I remember many on the Right promoting a theme that gay marriage would hurt traditional marriage.  I just passed 41 years this month and I see no truth to the claim whatsoever.  Now I suppose we should get back to the subject at hand.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #38 
So, jump in, throw out a bunch of off-topic, tired old liberal talking points, then say it's time to get back to the thread topic.

Classic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
It's easy for me to accept sides can disagree on these various issues but as soon as it's suggested one side is more susceptible to swallowing hook, line and sinker, then I find a response to be necessary.

First, we have the two threads here.  One has readily swallowed how California is foolish in her environmental concerns and the other has gulped down the "global cooling" theme.  Both themes being presented by Conservatives passing along everything they accept to be true.  Please tell me which political side is absorbing and promoting propaganda in these two cases here?

Conservatives will tell you lowering tax rates will increase revenue and then ignore how after Bush lowered rates, revenues dropped three of the eight years, when compared year to year.  Unprecedented in our history.  Conservatives will tell you providing preventive care to poor citizens is bad and ignore the lives that have been saved thanks to early detection.  I suppose they've been convinced the cost to save these lives is prohibitive but, to show how easily they can swallow a theme of a different flavor, they're quick to join the crowd who questions this President, with regards to international affairs, for not taking supposed life saving steps immediately and at any and all costs.

Add in those here who took their serving of "orbital fracture" and "a dozen eyewitnesses with contrary testimony" in our recent Missouri case, shared it with all of us, without hesitation, as maybe being factual, and I think I've made a fair case how all sides are capable of being spoon fed.  I'm guessing almost everybody knew this already.

Edit:  Oh yeah.  I remember many on the Right promoting a theme that gay marriage would hurt traditional marriage.  I just passed 41 years this month and I see no truth to the claim whatsoever.  Now I suppose we should get back to the subject at hand.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #39 
mikec - One shot at me personally by name, a shot at the supposed Liberal agenda, and a shot at low information voters, code for Liberals, and you hoped they'd all go unchallenged?  Your friends on the Right are the ones who hijacked your goal to discuss the wisdom of California, as it relates to environmental concerns, not me.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #40 

spazsdad- Poor sentence structure on my part, as it did put words in your mouth. I was just advancing a point that I believe we share in common opinion. That some who should don't do enough background research before supporting the common cause of the moment. Something catches fire in the media, social or otherwise, bandwagon acceptance, though no one actually pauses to ponder.

 


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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #41 
Hey Dewey, you forgot to mention that gays can openly serve in the military. Not to anyone's benefit but by god let them express themselves and the rest of us be dammed.
I finally feel proud to be an American.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
How many billions will this all cost? Where will the money come from?


[C733d2qVUAASaMa]

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #43 
CA sucks ballz.
woody

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Reply with quote  #44 
CA and other Socialists states are like an alcoholic, or Meth/Heroin addict. They just haven't hit rock bottom, or haven't had an interdiction that cut off their supply of OPM yet.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #45 
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19369/california-state-system-will-no-longer-force-elliott-hamilton
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #46 
I am sensing an end of 'no income tax' in washington state.  They are really struggling with the 11% sales tax.  That is not enough for them.  They also have a 20-something percent sugar taxes on soda, candy etc. 
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
I am sensing an end of 'no income tax' in washington state.  They are really struggling with the 11% sales tax.  That is not enough for them.  They also have a 20-something percent sugar taxes on soda, candy etc. 


double jepoardy

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
PDad

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Reply with quote  #48 
Thanks Dems! http://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/25/california-leads-the-nation-in-poverty/

One in five Californians live in poverty, according to a new U.S. Census Bureau report.

Using the Supplemental Poverty Measure, which accounts for regional cost-of-living, the average poverty rate in California from 2014 through 2016 stood at 20.4 percent, the highest among the states and second only to the District of Columbia’s 21 percent average. The national average over that period of time was 14.7 percent.

Despite boasting one of the largest economies in the world, California has consistently topped national rankings of poverty. While the state only accounts for about 12 percent of the national population, for example, Californians comprise one-third of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families beneficiaries.

One of the largest factors driving California’s shamefully high poverty rates is the high cost of housing.

According to a draft report on the housing crisis by the California Department of Housing and Community Development, “production averaged less than 80,000 new homes annually over the last 10 years, and ongoing production continues to fall far below the projected need of 180,000 additional homes annually.”

As a result, homeownership rates are at the lowest they’ve been since the 1940s, as increasing proportions of renters find themselves rent-burdened. According to the California Budget & Policy Center, more than half of renter households pay more than 30 percent of their incomes for housing, and one-third pay more than half of their incomes for housing.

This situation, which also contributes to California’s unfortunate distinction of being home to approximately 22 percent of the nation’s homeless population, has imposed significant hardships on millions of people across the state, and exacerbated California’s high poverty rate.

spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #49 
A veritable liberal utopia. Here in SoCal the homeless problem is out of control. A high percentage of those people have drifted here from other states. It wouldn't surprise me if someone is paying for their bus ticket out here. And just like the illegals there has cropped up a whole activist network enabling these people with ever increasing handouts and obstructing efforts to eradicate them with screams of rights violations.
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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #50 
Bad in Hawaii too. Remember the song verse, "I'm going where the weather suits my clothes"? Midnight Cowboy?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #51 
Using dewilly logic, I've always been amazed at dewilly's ability to never comment on his home state in anyway. If you cared about your state, you would compliment it because you trust those in charge or you would criticize your state because you don't trust those in charge. Strange, very strange that dewilly does neither. Strange dewilly
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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