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mikec

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Reply with quote  #1 
I just read that CA was the first and only state to impose a carbon change tax on oil and gas.  Estimates are that gas prices will rise from $0.40 to $1.30 per gallon.

The goal is to get people to drive less by making gas too expensive.  That sounds like a great economic recovery plan.

Pabar - come on down south - it's time buddy.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #2 
and FIB too, spazsdad too

Leave dewy there to defend his socialist positions to the rest of the knotheads who stay

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #3 
I would think the liberals will willingly and happily pay $5.50/gal
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #4 
I'm so close.  [bawl]
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #5 
Increasing gas prices hits consumers more than just in their driving. The cost if pretty much everything will go up, as it will cost more to get foods and services to market. Restaurant purveyors deliver daily, their rates are going up, taking the family to dinner will cost more. Grocers get deliveries daily, everyday staples will cost more. CVS pharmacy, prices going up. Sears, macys, target, prices going up. Gardening service, pool service, plumbers, all manner if service costs will rise. I may notice it, I may not, but there's no question the hardest hit by these price increases costs will be the poor, eating up more if their already meager income. That's democrats looking out for regular people.

No doubt liberals will hail it as California's economic miracle. Yeah, tax the blood out of your citizens and call it a miracle. Dem voters believe this is good for them. Lololol!

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#MakeDCListen #End Socialism #NoDems #2016 #ForAmerica
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #6 
Gasoline tax? Who cares! We are all driving the $80,000+ Tesla. Plug and don't pay.
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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #7 
The sad thing is that it's going to disproportionately hit the poor.  They're least able to absorb the impact of the price increase.  And in Southern California, where mass transit has little impact on ability to get around, car drivers will be screwed.  
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #8 
Like it doesn't already cost me a fortune to run my work van at 12 mpg. If it wasn't for my 88 yr old mother I would be so gone. At least the statewide plastic ban failed. Of course it's comforting to know the pressing issues that our legislators are focused on. Freakin libs
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
  Estimates are that gas prices will rise from $0.40 to $1.30 per gallon.



That's what Fox News is reporting.  Oil companies estimate about $.15 per gallon.  In addition, money raised is improving the mass transit industry.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #10 
Mass transit is essentially impossible in Southern California.  It will never happen.  It's too spread out.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
It will never happen. 


Can I have a link as to how you know this to be fact?

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #12 
Pabar is 'in' the know
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
It will never happen. 


Can I have a link as to how you know this to be fact?

Its called common sense.
Mass transit in SoCal is nothing more than a liberal pipe dream that has swallowed billions of tax dollars with little to no return. It only survives on continuing subsidies.
My link is my 50+ years of living here and seeing it first hand.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #14 
With regards to mass transit, I would say it depends upon the definition of feasible.  However, they will not "pay for themselves" in a traditional sense.

Roads don't "pay for themselves" either.

I have a whole very long list of facts I could use to debunk your transit ideas.  Planning mass transit systems is one of the things that I do.  I have a whole list of conservative reasons why mass transit works - and can work there too.

One last thing - then I'll get back to the tax.  I can't even tell you how hard it is to be a conservative at a mass transit convention.

Back to the tax - the legislature there and the oil companies estimated at least $.40/gal.  Some oil industry analysts are saying more like $1-$1.30.  It is not only "Fox News", the source of all even in the liberal world, that says that.  But, you will find out soon enough.

The point of this tax is punitive - make it expensive so people have to drive less, carpool, take transit, limit trips, walk or bike, or whatever, to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.

That's the kind of thing that gets me in trouble with my professional peers - punitive taxes don't do anything other than punish people, and make everything more expensive.  If mass transit, and those other options, are to work, then they have to be competitive, on a time and cost basis, with driving.  Making driving more expensive isn't the answer - it's making the transit more efficient.

This particular argument goes in circles in my world, and it drives me insane.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Its called common sense.  My link is my 50+ years of living here and seeing it first hand.


pabar - I kind of expected you'd have a different standard for yourself. [wink]

Btw, you have every right to post what you find to be a sensible comment based on what you think, believe, or know.  I'm just ribbin' ya for all the times you fail to allow others to do similar without demanding some link as proof.

Edit:  OK, I screwed that up.  I must not be awake yet.  This wasn't pabar that responded.  My apologies to you pabar.  I'll wait and let you respond for yourself.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
It will never happen. 


Can I have a link as to how you know this to be fact?


I don't need a link.  I lived there for twenty years.  I've been to West LA, Riverside, South Orange County, Whittier, Long Beach, Anaheim and all over that place.  If mass transit was possible, wouldn't they have it by now?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #17 
OK, now my previous post applies.

How a ballot initiative, a visionary mayor, and a quest for growth are turning Los Angeles into America’s next great mass-transit city.

California Transit


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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
woody

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Reply with quote  #18 
How many billions will this all cost? Where will the money come from?
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DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #19 
Congrats, California, for new legislation (assuming Brown signs it, which he should) banning disposable plastic shopping bags.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/california-legislature-passes-ban-on-disposable-plastic-bags-1409381457

Maybe plastic water bottles should be next?  At the least, more states should impose deposits on plastic bottles.  It won't result in 100% recycling, but it would help.  Remember when a 2 cent deposit on glass pop bottles was enough to get most people to save them and return them to the store?  Remember putting the empty milk bottles in the "milk box" for the "milk man" to pick up and refill?

We were more environmentally conscious 60 years ago than we are now.  Sad.  Now it's all about convenience.

Fast Facts on Plastic Bags

• Over 1 trillion plastic bags are used every year worldwide. Consider China, a country of 1.3 billion, which consumes 3 billion plastic bags daily, according to China Trade News.
• About 1 million plastic bags are used every minute.
• A single plastic bag can take up to 1,000 years to degrade.
• More than 3.5 million tons of plastic bags, sacks and wraps were discarded in 2008.
• Only 1 in 200 plastic bags in the UK are recycled (BBC).
• The U.S. goes through 100 billion single-use plastic bags. This costs retailers about $4 billion a year.
• Plastic bags are the second-most common type of ocean refuse, after cigarette butts (2008)
• Plastic bags remain toxic even after they break down.
• Every square mile of ocean has about 46,000 pieces of plastic floating in it.

The Problem

• An estimated 6 billion plastic bags are consumed--just in that county--each year. (William T. Fujioka, 2008)
• It is estimated that worldwide plastic bag consumption falls between 500 billion and 1 trillion bags annually. That breaks down to almost 1 million every minute.
• The average family accumulates 60 plastic bags in only four trips to the grocery store.
• In good circumstances, high-density polyethylene will take more than 20 years to degrade. In less ideal circumstances (land fills or as general refuse), a bag will take more than 1,000 years to degrade.
• An estimated 3,960,000 tons of plastic bags, sack and wraps were produced in 2008. Of those, 3,570,000 tons (90%) were discarded. This is almost triple the amount discarded the first year plastic bag numbers were tracked (1,230,000 tons in 1980). (EPA)
• Anywhere from .5% to 3% of all bags winds up recycled. (BBC, CNN)
• Every square mile of the ocean has about 46,000 pieces of floating plastic in it. (UN, 2006)
• Ten percent of the plastic produced every year worldwide winds up in the ocean. 70% of which finds its way to the ocean floor, where it will likely never degrade. (UN, 2006)

http://www.reuseit.com/facts-and-myths/facts-about-the-plastic-bag-pandemic.htm

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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #20 

Believe I referred to this in another thread:

Plastic Waste in Ocean is Disappearing

Synopsis:

Fields of waste plastic are measuring less. Scientists have conjectured ideas of why the decrease, but truly don't know.

Could be Mother Nature cleansing her planet. Then again, all the microbes that might be chomping on waste plastic could collectively belch noxious fumes that turn the human race into...

[Zombie2-2]


 

 


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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #21 
It's ridiculous DC. That's what it is and just another reason CA is in the toilet.
Remember when we had paper bags? Had to stop using them to save the trees. So we went plastic. Now plastic is bad so we move on to reusable bags. Guess what? They have their own problems with spreading bacteria to your food not to mention we are feeding the beast of China's mostly unregulated industry that is doing more damage to the environment than we could have ever imagined. Electric cars, oops. The manufacturing of the batteries is toxic. CFLs, oops. They contain mercury and contrary to advertising many don't last even as long as a incandescent and then we throw the mercury in the landfill.
And your recycling fee is another joke. Do you realize in CA the recycling fund is going bankrupt? They collect the money and most people put them in the trash, some in a recycle can, so the state wasn't paying out the money collected. Guess what they did, yep, started spending the money on other pet projects. With the economy in the toilet people are digging them out of the trash to get the . 05 and the money isn't there to pay out.
How about mandated fuel economy. Now everybody drives more efficient cars, they use less gas, so the state collects less tax revenue. The road tax, which also gets pilfered by scum sucking politicians, is not enough for them now and the law says they can't raise it so they just vote in new fees to make up for it. They are also talking about a new " road use" tax
Just more examples of liberal politicians stepping on our d*cks cause they know what's best for us and people like you eat it up and ask for more.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #22 
Did you guys even bother to read the fine print. You can still get a dime bag. At least inflation is in check in California. :-)
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #23 

Quote:
Did you guys even bother to read the fine print. You can still get a dime bag. At least inflation is in check in California. :-)


I see what you did there.

Could see two young socialites arguing about the merits of a dime bag and an original LOL, little old lady, joining the conversation extolling the virtues of plastic over paper. Probably happening everyday in my neighborhood.

Socialite #1: I'm all for paper bags. It is environmentally responsible. Don't you think Muffy?
Socialite #2: Yes, Stuffy. Could not agree more wholeheartedly. That's how I want my dime bag.
Grandma: You're both whack. Plastic is better, I'm telling you. Don't want to end up with stems and seeds.
Socialites: Standing silently. Dazed and confused.

 


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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #24 
Bill - That's funny. Personally, I'll always be partial to paper. Used them to carry my lunch and to lose my lunch. All purpose and, no doubt, tmi. ;-)
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
woody

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Reply with quote  #25 
Ban plastic bags, and kill a tree for the sake of the environment. While we are growing pulp timber, lets turn some into Liberal newsprint, and contaminate the waterway downstream of the paper plant, and sell the unused wood chips to China, so that they can sell it back to us as IKEA, and Wal Mart quality furniture. Yep, ban plastic, and kill trees. That's what the Timber industry in Texas prefers. We raise trees, and KILL THEM for a living. Life is good. Next time you want to frame a new home, would you prefer paper, or plastic? Or should I ask, would you like Southern Yellow Pine, Old Growth Northeastern timber, or Metal frame? It's all about your money, and how you want to spend it. Buy an 80k POS plug in car and feel green, and while you are at it, buy some foreign produced steel studs, that pollute the environment "over there", and feel all smug about it. It's like binge watching Portlandia.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #26 
Dewey- Don't fly well?

woody- Blaming California? We were/are the forefront of the new millennium. It all starts here. Why? We cornered the market by being the last frontier, the western most accessible spot in America where dreamers, schemers, the adventurous, down-trodden, wind blown, gold seeking and entrepreneurs congregated. From their collective wisdom, drive, energy and intellect have come the products that keep these United States of America ahead of the free-trade world. Blame us if you will, but without Silicon Valley here in sunny California, you'd be hard pressed to compete in the world market. [tongue]

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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
woody

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Reply with quote  #27 
OK let the pissing match begin. Try producing a computer chip, or a plastic bag without oil. Texas has a little of that for sale.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #28 
DC - Sounds like California has a littering problem, not a plastic problem. "Plastic bags remain toxic even after they break down."? "A single plastic bag can take up to 1,000 years to break down."? I've been in polymer research for 22 years and can't be fooled by this propagandist drivel. You should probably fact check your "Fast Facts".
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue
I've been in polymer research for 22 years and can't be fooled by this propagandist drivel. You should probably fact check your "Fast Facts".

But the low information voter eats it up.
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #30 
http://www.plasticsindustry.org/AboutPlastics/content.cfm?ItemNumber=829&navItemNumber=1280
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