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mikec

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Reply with quote  #91 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Lost 1 - If one of these articles and another article I linked are at odds, which one is accurate, in your opinion, and explain the differences?  Why would the Conservative Chamber of Commerce provide misleading information?

Edit:  I think Gov. Kasich confirmed the input by other local principals and teachers.


Your link calls it the "US" Chamber of Commerce, not the "Conservative" CoC.

I know you have a point to make, but that is a misleading misnomer.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #92 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
I can't imagine the President wanting to do something that wouldn't help the working people.


Please tell me you didn't really just post this.  I have to check the date - is this thread 3 weeks old?  Was this line posted on April 1?

There can't be any other explanation.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #93 
mikec - Many others have referred to the COC as being Conservative and I thought it important the readers understand it wasn't a political observation, but an objective one.  IOW, it was a Conservative group chiming in on two Conservatives debating.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #94 
Here is a good read for my state:

http://www.sj-r.com/article/20150413/OPINION/150419816/2012/OPINION?rssfeed=true
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #95 
CoachB - Clearly there are lots of different opinions on Common Core.  Did you read the link about the success story in the NY school district?  In any event, this Democrat, and I think most Democrats, don't subscribe to this approach characterized in your article...

...while running a broad-based public relations campaign that portrays educators and anyone associated with the profession as under-performing, inept, lazy and potentially harmful to students.

We admire the teaching profession and know the vast majority are trying to do what's best for our kids.  Now have a good day.


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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #96 
Yes, I read the link.  17 in a classroom?  We have 34.  28 in our elementary.  Did you read it?  They are receiving additional funds, more time for training, flexible schedules, and the kicker is that only 2 classes were tested for that article.  Did you note that they were "tracking" their students?  Try that sometime anywhere else in America and wait for the lawsuits to come.  Dewey, that was so representative of those that support Common Core.  Small sample size, perfect students and perfect classroom.  That is not the reality of education in this country.  I had an observer come from St. Louis University last week.  By the end of one class, that observer could not figure out how I do what I do in class.  Students with sever learning disabilities, other disabilities, 504 plans, ... all comprised my classes.  In the school from which that article was taken, students are just being diagnosed with those problems at 4th grade.  Some times those problems come and go in waves.  It is highly possible that the previous year where the school didn't score well was due to a greater class makeup of students that will be diagnosed with various learning disabilities after 4th grade.  My daughter is doing her practicum in 4th grade, she is helping with the evaluations.  One class has a tremendous number of students that will need additional services while three others have only one or two.  That is comparable to what might have happened in that school.  In short (LOL) the results of that school/article are so limited as to be worthless. 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #97 
Feds Play The Race Card To Crush Parents Revolt Against Core


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417476/feds-play-race-card-crush-parents-revolt-against-common-core-david-french

Ex
The federal government is flexing its muscles to protect an allegedly state-run program. Liberals are treating other liberals like they’re racist. Even the teachers’ unions are calling Common Core’s rollout “botched” and walking back their “once-enthusiastic” support for the program. It looks like the education technocracy is every bit as ineffective as the rest of our national technocracies.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417476/feds-play-race-card-crush-parents-revolt-against-common-core-david-french
Read more at http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417476/feds-play-race-card-crush-parents-revolt-against-common-core-david-french#fwSCf3jkDcEgxm6J.99
BamaHoHo

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Reply with quote  #98 
Somebody needs to use some Common Sense and get rid of Common Core.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaHoHo
Somebody needs to use some Common Sense and get rid of Common Core.


+1
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #100 
Long, but very spot on.




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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #101 
This would align with what I have seen and the teachers I have talked to.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/05/11/why-the-common-core-wont-do-what-supporters-say-it-will-principal/


Dear Jayne,


In my last letter, I asked a question that I think lies at the heart of the Common Core debate. I was disappointed that you did not respond to it. Here it is again, with context:

Jayne, there was nothing to prevent you from challenging all children before the Common Core arrived. I am certain you had strategies to level the playing field for economically disadvantaged students prior to 2010. Why do you believe you need the Common Core?

You told me in a previous letter that Florida parents and teachers reviewed the Common Core and made minor revisions. But this wasn’t the first time standards were reformed in Florida. In 2006-07, your state adopted the Sunshine State Standards, then changed to the Florida (Common) Core Standards in 2010, and then tweaked and renamed them the Florida Standards in 2014. My question remains, why did you need to go from one set of standards to another?

According to a report by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, the Sunshine State Standards were at about the same level of rigor and quality as the Common Core. In English Language Arts, Fordham gave the Sunshine State standards a B while the Common Core grade was B+. In math, the Sunshine State were rated A and Common Core received A-. Do you agree with Fordham’s findings that the level of difficulty was about equal? If so, do you support Common Core because you believe that all states should have the same standards?

Here is why I ask the question. Those who support the Common Core standards often claim they are needed because state standards were weak and, if states would adopt the same standards, the achievement of all students would rise. The problem is there is no evidence that standards per se make a difference in student performance, and there is some impressive scholarship that says they do not make any difference.

Tom Loveless of the non-profit Washington D.C.-based Brookings Institution has shown that similar reforms over the past three decades have not improved student achievement, even when the standards were “rigorous” and schools did their best to implement them. He points out that when we look at National Assessment of Educational Progress scores, that the range of scores within individual states is “four to five times greater than differences” in state averages, even though states had vastly different standards. Back in 2010, writing for the National Education Policy Center, William Mathis made similar arguments based on both national and international data.

As principal, I’ve seen transfer students from Florida adjust easily and I’ve seen those who fell apart. The same goes for students who transferred from other New York schools. The quality of the prior school, the effort of the student, and all of the social and economic factors that impact learning, made the difference in how the student adjusted. Any reform, by state or national standards setting and testing, is a waste of precious financial resources and time. We should be working hard to improve the lives of our students and the quality of our schools. Public schools have not failed America, Jayne. America has failed its public schools.

Nevertheless, if the standards are developmentally or academically inappropriate and the tests are aligned with them, damage can be done. You asked in your last letter where is the evidence that parental unhappiness with New York testing and test prep has anything to do with the Common Core. It is a great question.

New York had high-stakes testing just like every other state since NCLB. It was only when the Common Core tests began that the opt-out movement started. Florida is in year one. We are in year three. The Common Core standards were implemented, and the tests followed. During the first year, it was apparent that the Common Core-aligned Pearson tests were unreasonably difficult. Many young children became physically ill from the stress of taking a test that made them feel like failures. Eight prominent principals wrote a protest letter to the State Education Department. Hundreds of other New York principals signed it. Nothing changed.

Proficiency rates dropped to around 30 percent and, as a result, teachers pushed the Common Core standards even harder. In year two, 2014, based on their experiences during the first year of Common Core testing, 60,000 students opted out of the test. Year two testing was just as bad. When the third cycle of Common Core testing came around, the number rose to 200,000. The tests were perhaps even worse this year, based on word of mouth and sample questions posted online.

You argue that the Common Core has nothing to do with New York’s issues around high-stakes testing and opt-out. Of course, it does. Prior to the Common Core and the tests aligned to it, New York parents simply did not protest either the tests or the curriculum.

You asked, “Where will the line be drawn on what will be assessed and what will not be assessed?” Right now over 50 percent of my ninth grade class refused last year’s Common Core tests. Not one of them has ever protested a test or the state Regents exams. Parents understand the difference between fair tests and unfair tests.

Carol


__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #102 
Common Core is just the next straw thrown on the camels back. These education philosophies ALL teach to the lowest common denominator. The days of constantly challenging your students are headed to a bygone era.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bright-students-left-behind-1440024541


The Bright Students Left Behind

While everyone focuses on boosting the weakest students, America’s smartest children are no longer being pushed to do their best.


A great problem in U.S. education is that gifted students are rarely pushed to achieve their full potential. It is no secret that American students overall lag their international peers. Among the 34 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, whose students took the PISA exams in 2012, the U.S. ranked 17th in reading, 20th in science and 27th in math.

Less well known is how few young Americans—particularly the poor and minorities—reach the top ranks on such measures. The PISA test breaks students into six levels of math literacy, and only 9% of American 15-year-olds reached the top two tiers. Compare that with 16% in Canada, 17% in Germany and 40% in Singapore.

Among the handful of American high achievers, only one in eight comes from the bottom socioeconomic quartile. In Canada it’s one in four; Germany one in six; and Singapore one in three.

What has gone wrong? Thanks to No Child Left Behind and its antecedents, U.S. education policy for decades has focused on boosting weak students to minimum proficiency while neglecting the children who have already cleared that low bar. When parents of “gifted” youngsters complained, they were accused of elitism. It is rich that today’s policies purport to advance equality, yet harm the smartest kids from disadvantaged circumstances.

High achievers were taken more seriously during the Sputnik era. The National Association for Gifted Children was founded in 1954, the same year as the Supreme Court’s Brown v. Board of Education decision. As the country concerned itself with educational equity, John W. Gardner, the president of the Carnegie Corporation (and future U.S. secretary of health, education and welfare), posed a provocative question in a seminal 1961 book with the title, “Excellence: Can we be equal and excellent too?”

The year 1983 brought “A Nation at Risk,” the celebrated report of the National Commission on Excellence in Education, which declared that poor schools were contributing to national weakness: “Our once unchallenged pre-eminence in commerce, industry, science, and technological innovation is being overtaken by competitors throughout the world.” Five years later Congress passed the sole federal program to focus specifically on gifted students, which intermittently provides a modest $9 million a year for them.

Poor test scores show that gifted American children still aren’t reaching the heights they are capable of. How do other nations achieve better results? We set out to examine 11 of them—four in Asia, four in Europe, and three that speak English—for our forthcoming book, “Failing Our Brightest Kids: The Global Challenge of Educating High-Ability Students.”

Unsurprisingly we found that culture, values and attitudes matter a great deal. Parents in Korea, Japan and Taiwan push their kids to excel, and often pay for outside tutors and cram schools. So costly has this become, so taxing for parents whose children come home exhausted late at night, that families are apt to have only a single child—unwittingly contributing to their nations’ demographic crashes.

Finland is a different story. Equity and inclusion are the bywords, and teachers are supposed to “differentiate” instruction to meet the unique needs of every child. Elitism is taboo and competition frowned upon. Yet Helsinki boasts an underground of specialized elementary schools that parents jockey to get their children into. Most Finnish high schools practice selective admission, including more than 50 that, as a local education expert told us, “can just as well be called schools for the gifted and talented.”

In Germany and Switzerland, too, the high schools (“gymnasiums”) that prepare students for university are mostly selective. A handful also have intensive tracks with extra courses for uncommonly able youngsters.

Western Australia, like Singapore, screens all schoolchildren in third or fourth grade to see which of them show academic promise. Those who excel can choose to enter specialized classrooms or after-school enrichment programs. Both places also boast super-selective public high schools akin to Boston Latin School or the Bronx High School of Science.

Both Ontario and Taiwan treat gifted children as eligible for “special education,” much like disabled students, giving them access to additional resources. But these students are also squashed under cumbersome procedures: For instance, a committee must review their progress annually, and generally they may not transfer out of the school that the bureaucracy assigns them to.

What lessons can the U.S. take from this research on how to raise the academic ceiling, while also lifting the floor? States could screen all their students and offer top scorers extra challenges. They could encourage smart kids to accelerate through school or—more disruptive—allow every child to move through the curriculum at his own pace. Why must every 11-year-old be in fifth grade? Technology eases such individualization, but this change would also require agile teachers and major revisions to academic standards, curricula and tests that now assume every child should progress through one grade a year. Schools would have to ensure that extracurricular and social activities remain more or less based on age. But liberating fast learners to surge forward academically would do them—and society—a world of good.

If and when Congress finishes reauthorizing No Child Left Behind, it should encourage states to track and report not only progress by low achievers, but also academic gains by gifted students, as Ohio already does. Lawmakers should direct the Education Department to gather far better data on strong students than are available today.

For their part, states and school districts need to offer better options for high-ability pupils, such as schools that admit on the basis of academic potential, the way that Stuyvesant High School in New York City does. This model should be extended to middle and elementary school. Gifted poor children, in particular, need that kind of academic support from the start.

If we cannot bring ourselves to push smart kids as far as they can go, we will watch and eventually weep as other countries surpass us in producing tomorrow’s inventors, entrepreneurs, artists and scientists.

 




__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


pabar61

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Reply with quote  #103 
Consistent with much of what the left preaches.
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #104 
Once again:



Oh Dewey..........


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/09/08/the-surprising-things-new-yorks-mayor-said-about-common-core-and-4-year-olds/

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #105 
The US Department of Education should be shut down. The federal government does not belong in our classrooms. Cut the costly bureaucracy of Washington.
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #106 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/common-core-tests-why-opt-movement-isnt-losing-152655291.html?nhp=1


Parents argue that the tests assess their children on information they haven't learned while implementing new learning approaches that "look like pure nonsense — or just a lot of extra work," as The Atlantic's Alia Wong wrote last year. In some cases teachers have joined parents in opposition, arguing that their teaching evaluations should not be linked to a frivolous test. 


Long Island, in particular, is "the hotbed of testing residence," Carol Burris, a former New York high school principal, writes for the Washington Post. "There is also evidence that the Opt Out movement is gaining ground with parents of color, with many no longer willing to buy the spin that taking Common Core tests will improve their children’s life chances." 

In theory, standardized testing helps identify gaps and hold districts accountable for all students' success. "We need a measure that allows us to get a snapshot that is consistent across communities and zip codes, that allows us to see where we are missing the mark for some groups of kids as opposed to others," Sonja Brookins Santelises, the vice president of K-12 policy and practice for the Education Trust, which works to reduce the achievement gap, told the Monitor last April.

But for many parents, it's one more example of schools making major decisions without community input.

"Public schools have historically excluded parents of color from the conversation regarding policies that impact their children the most," Jamaal Bowman, the principle of a Bronx middle school, told Ms. Burris, noting that years of testing have not yet leveled the playing field for poorer students. "These tests are about profit and power, not helping black and brown children," he said. 


__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #107 
"These tests are about profit and power, not helping black and brown children"
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #108 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/04/12/teacher-what-third-graders-are-being-asked-to-do-on-2016-common-core-test/
__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #109 
Has dewy approved that message?
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #110 
Common Core results get rave reviews from Alabama superintendent.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #111 
I didn't think so
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #112 

Aliens are living among us, declares former high ranking politician who wants US to reveal UFO secrets


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #113 


Makes sense, they are ranked 45th in the nation in education, with an overall grade if D+.

http://www.edweek.org/ew/qc/2015/state-highlights/2015/01/08/alabama-education-ranking.html?override=web
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #114 
Tyler - I don't see the relevance of grading Alabama back in 2014 in order to dismiss their results today.  In any event, I think we need to do something with regards to education and it seems Common Core is one area many on both sides support.  Better than doing nothing in my opinion.  Whether it be education, immigration, or health care reform, count on the Right to have few suggestions before the fact but many criticisms after the fact.

Here are some more results...

http://hechingerreport.org/the-surprising-initial-results-from-a-new-common-core-exam/


__________________
President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #115 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Common Core is evil!  Dewey, did you read the article you linked?  It says in the article that it is too early to tell what caused the increase in scores.  Teachers are simply teaching the test or what the administration thinks will be on the test.  Some of the most basic parts of the curriculum that was once taught is now ignored.  For the first time in my teaching career, I had to take a week out of my class to teach my students do simplistic stuff my students have always known. 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #116 
CoachB - Too many real evil things in this world to find a sincere attempt to improve the education of our children as being evil.  That said, please let me ask?  Do you respect Michelle Rhee, Sec of Education Bennett, and Gov Bush?  They're all supporters of Common Core.  Maybe your side will ultimately be found to be on the right side of this issue but, until then, I hear too many advocates saying give this a chance for me to come down against this reform at this time.  I would have felt a lot better if you had some positive things to say about CC but, that aside, I guess we'll see how this plays out.  I may have mud on my face down the road for supporting these advocates.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #117 
Like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #118 
Quote:
Do you respect Michelle Rhee, Sec of Education Bennett, and Gov Bush?  They're all supporters of Common Core.


Dewey, I'll answer our question.......No, I don't!

Coach is absolutely correct.......Common core is evil and a rotten apple at it's very core!
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #119 
Dewey, it isn't about respect at all.  It is about changing the educational system of this country when real experts opinions have been ignored in lieu of some pseudo experts who teach a test and then say see, we're doing well.  No kidding EXCEPT FOR ALL THE THINGS NOT BEING TAUGHT.  Dewey, I was my school's representative to attend all of the Common Core Training.  I took classes for 3 or 4 weeks.  I was told I was no longer a "History Teacher."  I was an English Teacher who will get to have my students write papers about some historical topics.  When I asked how I would cover all of the other content that they will no longer be exposed to, I was told that they will read on their own in their own time to learn that stuff.  It is just another way to deny these student a basis for their heritage. IMO, it is evil. 
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #120 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
Makes sense, they are ranked 45th in the nation in education, with an overall grade if D+. http://www.edweek.org/ew/qc/2015/state-highlights/2015/01/08/alabama-education-ranking.html?override=web






The increase in graduation rates is because Alabama quit administering the EOI test. I guess graduation rates can go up when you quit testing to see if they can graduate......

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


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