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ssrules

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Posts: 171
Reply with quote  #31 
A couple of players were suspended as well for several games (don't remember how many).
softballinfo411

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Posts: 69
Reply with quote  #32 
My mistake on SEMO and UCONN being on the list I threw out there.  Thought I had out all the new coaches at programs.  My apologies.  Like I stated I have no opinion either way or first hand knowledge of these programs, just was looking at a losing record the last couple years.  Some of these will be fine but unfortunately some will never win which I guess gives us folks something to talk about during these cold winter months.

Great input by all and I'm glad this string is staying nice and not getting salty like some I have seen. 
CoachB25

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Posts: 2,234
Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by softballinfo411
My mistake on SEMO and UCONN being on the list I threw out there.  Thought I had out all the new coaches at programs.  My apologies.  Like I stated I have no opinion either way or first hand knowledge of these programs, just was looking at a losing record the last couple years.  Some of these will be fine but unfortunately some will never win which I guess gives us folks something to talk about during these cold winter months.

Great input by all and I'm glad this string is staying nice and not getting salty like some I have seen. 


As an FYI, I wasn't being critical.  I knew you didn't know about SEMO.  I do because I know Coach Redburn.  He recruited my dd but she went elsewhere.  He will improve that program.  I also appreciate the tone of this thread.  It enables some of us to share what we know while our opinions are being shared in a great discussion. 
TylerDurden

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Posts: 3,868
Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrules
Don't know all the details. But I remember hearing 3 scholarships and the team was left in shambles. Previous coach took a lot of players and left current coach with only a couple that were D1 players. The first year or two was a mess.


What school - the loss of scholarships was never publicized, and if true, should have been.  Players leaving with a coach and being suspended happens all the time.
TylerDurden

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Posts: 3,868
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker123
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruDat
To turn around a "dead" program takes years. UVA is a prime example. Maryland is as well. To get the high profile players you need to identify them by 10th grade. That's at least three years before they graduate and get on your field. Transfers won't help and neither will walk ons. The biggest obstacle is getting a stud pitcher. They are less inclined to go with a rebuilding team. You can be the best coach in the world and you will need time. Now if the seeds are already there and coaching is the problem (see Auburn) then it can happen quickly.


I don't think you can discount transfers. Auburn obviously had some pieces in place before Myers took the job but I'm pretty sure they're counting on transfers Walters and Carlson to carry the load on the mound.

At the end of the day it all depends on what the administration allows the coach to do. The quicker they can instill their vision and clean house (if they want) the quicker you should expect a turnaround. If they aren't able to cut bait on current players that aren't interested in buying in and have to honor previous verbal commits it could take 6 years before you see something. One bad apple can ruin team chemistry. If they are given free reign I think you need to start seeing the needle move in the right direction by season 3.


Good insights.  I believe most good coaches will start to see an uptick in season two and definitely season three.  New coaches that take over bad programs need to seriously look at their OOC schedule and try to get some wins in season two and three, and worry about there OOC SOS later. 
Mark46

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Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sballwatcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
Big Ten
Iowa
Indiana
Michigan State
...
Not sure about the smaller conferences, but also not sure the schools actually care.

MSU is a great example of a school that doesn't care about their softball team's record.
- 2007 was last winning season
- 2004 was last NCAA Regional appearance
- 2003 was last winning record in the Big Ten

They've won less than 20 games in 3 of the past 4 seasons and 21 or less in 5 of last 7. Their 4-19 B1G record in 2015 put them in last place (i.e. 14th) and made them 1 of 2 teams to be excluded from the B1G tournament.

FWIW, JJ is slated to be inducted into the NFCA HOF next December.

The most likely coaches on the HotSeat are at schools that have recently fired coaches from other lower-profile sports for not winning.
What you are missing is that JJ's family is a huge booster to MSU.


It would appear that, after Hutch, Jacqui Joseph has the most secure job in the Big 10. A long string of awful seasons trumped by allegations of abuse from a player was barely noticed by the MSU administration. I love it.
AtlUmpSteve

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Posts: 111
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sballwatcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
Big Ten
Iowa
Indiana
Michigan State
...
Not sure about the smaller conferences, but also not sure the schools actually care.

MSU is a great example of a school that doesn't care about their softball team's record.
- 2007 was last winning season
- 2004 was last NCAA Regional appearance
- 2003 was last winning record in the Big Ten

They've won less than 20 games in 3 of the past 4 seasons and 21 or less in 5 of last 7. Their 4-19 B1G record in 2015 put them in last place (i.e. 14th) and made them 1 of 2 teams to be excluded from the B1G tournament.

FWIW, JJ is slated to be inducted into the NFCA HOF next December.

The most likely coaches on the HotSeat are at schools that have recently fired coaches from other lower-profile sports for not winning.
What you are missing is that JJ's family is a huge booster to MSU.


It would appear that, after Hutch, Jacqui Joseph has the most secure job in the Big 10. A long string of awful seasons trumped by allegations of abuse from a player was barely noticed by the MSU administration. I love it.


I would tend to agree, EXCEPT the allegations were fully investigated, both internally (which would be questionable if standing alone) and by an outside police agency (when it became a criminal complaint), and reported to be proven to be a personal vendetta concocted by the accuser, and completely without merit.

Her record of awful seasons year-after-year stands on its' own.  Hard to argue that point (nor would I).
Mark46

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Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sballwatcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
Big Ten
Iowa
Indiana
Michigan State
...
Not sure about the smaller conferences, but also not sure the schools actually care.

MSU is a great example of a school that doesn't care about their softball team's record.
- 2007 was last winning season
- 2004 was last NCAA Regional appearance
- 2003 was last winning record in the Big Ten

They've won less than 20 games in 3 of the past 4 seasons and 21 or less in 5 of last 7. Their 4-19 B1G record in 2015 put them in last place (i.e. 14th) and made them 1 of 2 teams to be excluded from the B1G tournament.

FWIW, JJ is slated to be inducted into the NFCA HOF next December.

The most likely coaches on the HotSeat are at schools that have recently fired coaches from other lower-profile sports for not winning.
What you are missing is that JJ's family is a huge booster to MSU.


It would appear that, after Hutch, Jacqui Joseph has the most secure job in the Big 10. A long string of awful seasons trumped by allegations of abuse from a player was barely noticed by the MSU administration. I love it.


I would tend to agree, EXCEPT the allegations were fully investigated, both internally (which would be questionable if standing alone) and by an outside police agency (when it became a criminal complaint), and reported to be proven to be a personal vendetta concocted by the accuser, and completely without merit.

Her record of awful seasons year-after-year stands on its' own.  Hard to argue that point (nor would I).


"Fully investigated" and "completely without merit" are in the eye of the beholder. As the link states the key witness for the player was never interviewed.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2015/08/11/investigation-clears-msu-softball-coaches-wrongdoing/31456461/

I'm very familiar with the cozy relationship between the MSU athletic department and the Ingham County Prosecutor's Department which brings pretty much every "investigation" into doubt. ESPN is working on an expose about MSU and just won a lawsuit to gain the names of MSU basketball players involved in an alleged rape case that was covered up. Stay tuned.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/12/23/michigan-state-espn-student-records-lawsuit/77835900/
Mark46

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Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sballwatcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
Big Ten
Iowa
Indiana
Michigan State
...
Not sure about the smaller conferences, but also not sure the schools actually care.

MSU is a great example of a school that doesn't care about their softball team's record.
- 2007 was last winning season
- 2004 was last NCAA Regional appearance
- 2003 was last winning record in the Big Ten

They've won less than 20 games in 3 of the past 4 seasons and 21 or less in 5 of last 7. Their 4-19 B1G record in 2015 put them in last place (i.e. 14th) and made them 1 of 2 teams to be excluded from the B1G tournament.

FWIW, JJ is slated to be inducted into the NFCA HOF next December.

The most likely coaches on the HotSeat are at schools that have recently fired coaches from other lower-profile sports for not winning.
What you are missing is that JJ's family is a huge booster to MSU.


It would appear that, after Hutch, Jacqui Joseph has the most secure job in the Big 10. A long string of awful seasons trumped by allegations of abuse from a player was barely noticed by the MSU administration. I love it.


I would tend to agree, EXCEPT the allegations were fully investigated, both internally (which would be questionable if standing alone) and by an outside police agency (when it became a criminal complaint), and reported to be proven to be a personal vendetta concocted by the accuser, and completely without merit.

Her record of awful seasons year-after-year stands on its' own.  Hard to argue that point (nor would I).


"Fully investigated" and "completely without merit" are in the eye of the beholder. As the link states the key witness for the player was never interviewed.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2015/08/11/investigation-clears-msu-softball-coaches-wrongdoing/31456461/

I'm very familiar with the cozy relationship between the MSU athletic department and the Ingham County Prosecutor's Department which brings pretty much every "investigation" into doubt. ESPN is working on an expose about MSU and just won a lawsuit to gain the names of MSU basketball players involved in an alleged rape case that was covered up. Stay tuned.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/12/23/michigan-state-espn-student-records-lawsuit/77835900/


It can't be described as a "full investigation " when the main witness isn't even contacted. If they dismissed the witness as you have ahead of time then the whole investigation is a sham.
Mark46

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Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
It is my understanding that this "witness" was in on it with the player and had an ongoing relationship with the player. So no go there.

Criticize the coach on other factors, not that one. The player's dad was known as a blowhard and the family went off wimpering after the finding, never filing the great big lawsuit they claimed they were going to do.

BTW: What college had NCAA violations, a coach that stole players afterwards, and a new coach? Have not heard of any school with all that--maybe two out of the three but not all three.


Oops. I made my response under the wrong post. An investigator can't dismiss a witness based on allegations from the other party and remain credible. I have no idea what the truth is, but I do believe the investigation was a sham.

I haven't no idea what your your BTW comment even means.
AtlUmpSteve

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Posts: 111
Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
It is my understanding that this "witness" was in on it with the player and had an ongoing relationship with the player. So no go there.

Criticize the coach on other factors, not that one. The player's dad was known as a blowhard and the family went off wimpering after the finding, never filing the great big lawsuit they claimed they were going to do.

BTW: What college had NCAA violations, a coach that stole players afterwards, and a new coach? Have not heard of any school with all that--maybe two out of the three but not all three.
Oops. I made my response under the wrong post. An investigator can't dismiss a witness based on allegations from the other party and remain credible. I have no idea what the truth is, but I do believe the investigation was a sham. I haven't no idea what your your BTW comment even means.


While I can't recall all the specifics at this point, I didn't stop at reading the PR statements masked as news.  Somewhere I found links to the full and actual police reports of the interviews with all the witnesses and team members and read and drew my own conclusions.

What was clear was that the one and only person alleging to have heard this "plot" was in a close and personal relationship with the player.  And that absolutely no one else, particularly her teammates that would have insight into who she really was, believed his/her allegation.  And the total and complete absence of any anecdotal commentary, no other allegations from unhappy team members, no one crawling out of the woodwork to piggyback, as seems to always happen, even with overblown and false accusations.  There have to be players and former players that don't like that coach, yet none had a story to tell to support the credibility of any accusation.

You may well have more insight into other issues with athletics at MSU.  In the eye of this beholder, this specific case was no more than a discredited witch hunt started by a spoiled attention-seeker and her "friend".
Mark46

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Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
It is my understanding that this "witness" was in on it with the player and had an ongoing relationship with the player. So no go there.

Criticize the coach on other factors, not that one. The player's dad was known as a blowhard and the family went off wimpering after the finding, never filing the great big lawsuit they claimed they were going to do.

BTW: What college had NCAA violations, a coach that stole players afterwards, and a new coach? Have not heard of any school with all that--maybe two out of the three but not all three.
Oops. I made my response under the wrong post. An investigator can't dismiss a witness based on allegations from the other party and remain credible. I have no idea what the truth is, but I do believe the investigation was a sham. I haven't no idea what your your BTW comment even means.


While I can't recall all the specifics at this point, I didn't stop at reading the PR statements masked as news.  Somewhere I found links to the full and actual police reports of the interviews with all the witnesses and team members and read and drew my own conclusions.

What was clear was that the one and only person alleging to have heard this "plot" was in a close and personal relationship with the player.  And that absolutely no one else, particularly her teammates that would have insight into who she really was, believed his/her allegation.  And the total and complete absence of any anecdotal commentary, no other allegations from unhappy team members, no one crawling out of the woodwork to piggyback, as seems to always happen, even with overblown and false accusations.  There have to be players and former players that don't like that coach, yet none had a story to tell to support the credibility of any accusation.

You may well have more insight into other issues with athletics at MSU.  In the eye of this beholder, this specific case was no more than a discredited witch hunt started by a spoiled attention-seeker and her "friend".


Maybe, but a credible investigation interviews witnesses from both sides and doesn't accept second hand opinions that that witness is biased.
TylerDurden

Registered:
Posts: 3,868
Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
It is my understanding that this "witness" was in on it with the player and had an ongoing relationship with the player. So no go there.

Criticize the coach on other factors, not that one. The player's dad was known as a blowhard and the family went off wimpering after the finding, never filing the great big lawsuit they claimed they were going to do.

BTW: What college had NCAA violations, a coach that stole players afterwards, and a new coach? Have not heard of any school with all that--maybe two out of the three but not all three.
Oops. I made my response under the wrong post. An investigator can't dismiss a witness based on allegations from the other party and remain credible. I have no idea what the truth is, but I do believe the investigation was a sham. I haven't no idea what your your BTW comment even means.


While I can't recall all the specifics at this point, I didn't stop at reading the PR statements masked as news.  Somewhere I found links to the full and actual police reports of the interviews with all the witnesses and team members and read and drew my own conclusions.

What was clear was that the one and only person alleging to have heard this "plot" was in a close and personal relationship with the player.  And that absolutely no one else, particularly her teammates that would have insight into who she really was, believed his/her allegation.  And the total and complete absence of any anecdotal commentary, no other allegations from unhappy team members, no one crawling out of the woodwork to piggyback, as seems to always happen, even with overblown and false accusations.  There have to be players and former players that don't like that coach, yet none had a story to tell to support the credibility of any accusation.

You may well have more insight into other issues with athletics at MSU.  In the eye of this beholder, this specific case was no more than a discredited witch hunt started by a spoiled attention-seeker and her "friend".
Maybe, but a credible investigation interviews witnesses from both sides and doesn't accept second hand opinions that that witness is biased.


IMO, this is secondary to her being on the hot seat for her record alone.  Some schools in the BIG keeping these coaches (MSU/IU) around is just another reason why they will continue to lag behind other conferences in softball.  That, and a particular hiring policy, will keep it this way until they are addressed.
Mark46

Registered:
Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
It is my understanding that this "witness" was in on it with the player and had an ongoing relationship with the player. So no go there.

Criticize the coach on other factors, not that one. The player's dad was known as a blowhard and the family went off wimpering after the finding, never filing the great big lawsuit they claimed they were going to do.

BTW: What college had NCAA violations, a coach that stole players afterwards, and a new coach? Have not heard of any school with all that--maybe two out of the three but not all three.
Oops. I made my response under the wrong post. An investigator can't dismiss a witness based on allegations from the other party and remain credible. I have no idea what the truth is, but I do believe the investigation was a sham. I haven't no idea what your your BTW comment even means.


While I can't recall all the specifics at this point, I didn't stop at reading the PR statements masked as news.  Somewhere I found links to the full and actual police reports of the interviews with all the witnesses and team members and read and drew my own conclusions.

What was clear was that the one and only person alleging to have heard this "plot" was in a close and personal relationship with the player.  And that absolutely no one else, particularly her teammates that would have insight into who she really was, believed his/her allegation.  And the total and complete absence of any anecdotal commentary, no other allegations from unhappy team members, no one crawling out of the woodwork to piggyback, as seems to always happen, even with overblown and false accusations.  There have to be players and former players that don't like that coach, yet none had a story to tell to support the credibility of any accusation.

You may well have more insight into other issues with athletics at MSU.  In the eye of this beholder, this specific case was no more than a discredited witch hunt started by a spoiled attention-seeker and her "friend".
Maybe, but a credible investigation interviews witnesses from both sides and doesn't accept second hand opinions that that witness is biased.


IMO, this is secondary to her being on the hot seat for her record alone.  Some schools in the BIG keeping these coaches (MSU/IU) around is just another reason why they will continue to lag behind other conferences in softball.  That, and a particular hiring policy, will keep it this way until they are addressed.


True, my only point is that with her record and what I consider a sham of an investigation (whether she's guilty or not isn't the issue) she has a guardian angel there and apparently a lifetime contract. But, if MSU is happy I'm happy.
softballinfo411

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Posts: 69
Reply with quote  #45 
Interested in input now. A few improved and some seem still on same pattern.
CAAggieFan

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Posts: 347
Reply with quote  #46 
From out West I would add:

Utah Valley
UNLV
Bosie State (I know only second year)
Cal State Bakersfield

If Nevada coach stays, it is only due to a powder puff schedule
goblue

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Posts: 385
Reply with quote  #47 
What do you think happens at Michigan when Hutch retires. Besides naming the stadium after her, Brundage and Tholl have stuck with her forever, I wonder if it's understood one of them will take over? There are also a bunch of former Wolverines who coach at other programs. Merchant and Young come to mind.
Mark46

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Posts: 696
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue
What do you think happens at Michigan when Hutch retires. Besides naming the stadium after her, Brundage and Tholl have stuck with her forever, I wonder if it's understood one of them will take over? There are also a bunch of former Wolverines who coach at other programs. Merchant and Young come to mind.


I'd be shocked if Bonnie Tholl doesn't become head coach when Hutch retires, but I think Hutch is 58 so that could still be a long way off. Tholl has been the chief recruiter since she arrived and Michigan's program really took off the new heights ever since.
Skinny

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Posts: 309
Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAAggieFan
From out West I would add:

Utah Valley
UNLV
Bosie State (I know only second year)
Cal State Bakersfield

If Nevada coach stays, it is only due to a powder puff schedule
I cant believe Dodd has never had a winning record at UNLV.
PH2

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Posts: 231
Reply with quote  #50 
I think Austin Peay's coach can be added to this list.  He's only been head coach for a year, but has been on staff for several years and took over from the previous head coach who quit to pursue a non-softball job opportunity.  The team has not been good for years, but has gotten worse the past 2 years.  Won 9 games last year and sitting at 8 this year.  If anything will save him, I guess it's low expectations considering they have barely reached 20 wins once or twice in the last 10+ years.
jayrot

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Posts: 16,411
Reply with quote  #51 
I doubt she's actually on the hot seat, but can we add HOERNER HOERNER HOERNER HOERNER HOERNER.
jhenry1

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Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #52 

"I cant believe Dodd has never had a winning record at UNLV."

Why is that?
Skinny

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Posts: 309
Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhenry1

"I cant believe Dodd has never had a winning record at UNLV."

Why is that?
I couldn't tell you, she has a hell of a background as a player and as an assistant. Why isn't it working?
PlayersCoach

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Posts: 115
Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PH2
I think Austin Peay's coach can be added to this list.  He's only been head coach for a year, but has been on staff for several years and took over from the previous head coach who quit to pursue a non-softball job opportunity.  The team has not been good for years, but has gotten worse the past 2 years.  Won 9 games last year and sitting at 8 this year.  If anything will save him, I guess it's low expectations considering they have barely reached 20 wins once or twice in the last 10+ years.
PlayersCoach

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Posts: 115
Reply with quote  #55 
OK let's pump the brakes a second on this one. Take a look at the program, they have never been good. Also if you know the history of the previous coach you will get an inside look at how AD's sometimes do things. Try connecting the dots on this nutty story. The previous head coach had zero experience at coaching until she was given an opportunity by the new head coach at their former D2 school. Both coaches (unbeknownst to both) applied at AP for the vacant H/C position 4 years ago. The inexperienced coach received an interview and the experienced coach didn't get a phone call. Again her ONLY experience as a coach was under her former H/C. She got the job and she offered him the asssitant position. The current H/C at Peay knows what he is doing and is trying to be competitive with athletes the former H/C recruited without his input. As far as their record the previous few years, that was with a very inexperienced head coach who was running the show. I actually saw her squeeze with the bases loaded in one game with their best hitter, down by 3. Maybe going for the element of surprise? The new H/C, previous A/C with the old H/C and former H/C to former AP H/C, holy cow, will truly teach these young athletes the game of softball, he is a great teacher of every aspect of the game and will get AP going in the correct direction.
PH2

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Posts: 231
Reply with quote  #56 
Don't know anything specific about the coach or his abilities, just looking at the situation.  He's been on the staff for several years and actively involved in recruiting from what I've seen, so these aren't just the old coach's players.  The coach of any team that regularly wins 8-18 games a year should probably be considered on the hot seat.  I don't think it's off-base to include him on this list given the situation and performance.  I don't know whether he deserves to be let go or not, don't have an opinion on him as a coach or recruiter one way or the other, don't know what the administration thinks of him or what the expectations were of him when they gave him the job.  Just throwing the situation out there as one that should be considered.
CAAggieFan

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Posts: 347
Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny
I couldn't tell you, she has a hell of a background as a player and as an assistant. Why isn't it working?
 Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting the one thing that gets most former players problems.  Being able to recognize talent, unfortunately at an ever earlier age, and convincing players to play for you.
sportz_fanz

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Posts: 401
Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden


PAC 12
ASU
Oregon State



The interim ASU coaches are 99.9999% gone.
UMassFan

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Posts: 5,119
Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportz_fanz


The interim ASU coaches are 99.9999% gone.

I think Berg is quite safe at OSU. They are moving in the right direction.

__________________
Go!
Go U!
Go UMass!
Go UMass!
Softball98mom

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Posts: 98
Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportz_fanz


The interim ASU coaches are 99.9999% gone.


Any word on who ASU is hiring?
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