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mikec

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
I bet he was related to kazoo, gutless.  I just heard the story about the SRO

https://nasro.org/


gonna be hard for that guy to go sleep at night for the rest of his life, I would think.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #62 
So many failures in this case, and they all had to happen to allow him through to do his murder.  Just sad all the way around.
woody

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


gonna be hard for that guy to go sleep at night for the rest of his life, I would think.


I feel bad for the guy. He was either not properly trained and prepared, or didn't have the mindset to do the job. A lot of people can be a cop, write the tickets, and take a few bad apples into custody. But being thrown into a violent mass shooting when you are the only person on site is a different animal. Every person is different and have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure combat veterans each experienced a similar moment. This must be agonizing to the guy. I don't know where he goes after this type of event.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #64 
They should only hire combat vets I guess. There are plenty of them that could do the job
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kazoo

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


Between the deputy sheriff hiding like barney fife [duaine] and the FBI ignoring the warnings, why aren't the gun grabbers squawking over failure of law enforcement in this situation?  freshturd has said FBI is beyond reproach but they dropped the ball.  His knee jerk reaction, eliminate rifles. pure brilliance to wait on law enforcement to save your life, when your life is on the line


What was the FBI going to do to the kid? Answer: nothing. There was nothing to do--by it or the police--because the kid had not broken any laws. What, were they going to put him in jail? Sit outside his house day and night? Talk to him?  

As for the cowardly guard: Contrary to your point, his inaction only shows that the NRA/Trump notion that some teacher or guard is going to morph into James Bond in the heat of the moment and save the day--amid hundreds of people running in all directions--is the usual gun-lobby nonsense. Look at the police who responded to Columbine--it took them HOURS to enter the school--disgraceful--during which time a wounded teacher died. They were cowardly. So forget this silly, stupid idea that some Rambo gym teacher will save the day. He'd probably shoot the wrong person. You realize that the swat team in Parkland surrounded the wrong kid--had their guns trained on him. Had the kid made a wrong move with his arm he would have been killed. Even under the best of circumstances, that being a highly skilled guard who is close to where the shooting starts and acts courageously--would do nothing but limit the death count. There would still be dead people. In other words, this idea is not a solution in the least. NRA = dishonest lobbying group spouting BS.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #66 
I didn't say arm the teachers.  Until Lost1 says that could be a solution, I'll hold off on that idea.  I said hire combat vets as SROs.  Do you have reading comprehension issues.

As far as the FBI, some of his behavior and actions could have led to a search warrant.  He made terroristic threats, bingo, find guns.  That's what you pussy gun grabbers want isn't it?  Take guns away from those that shouldn't have them?  Or just take all guns?  Why don't you be the first to start taking guns internet tough guy.

  You want to screen for mental illness before sickos kill?  Didn't think so, you're retarded yourself

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo


What was the FBI going to do to the kid? Answer: nothing. There was nothing to do--by it or the police--because the kid had not broken any laws. What, were they going to put him in jail? Sit outside his house day and night? Talk to him?  

As for the cowardly guard: Contrary to your point, his inaction only shows that the NRA/Trump notion that some teacher or guard is going to morph into James Bond in the heat of the moment and save the day--amid hundreds of people running in all directions--is the usual gun-lobby nonsense. Look at the police who responded to Columbine--it took them HOURS to enter the school--disgraceful--during which time a wounded teacher died. They were cowardly. So forget this silly, stupid idea that some Rambo gym teacher will save the day. He'd probably shoot the wrong person. You realize that the swat team in Parkland surrounded the wrong kid--had their guns trained on him. Had the kid made a wrong move with his arm he would have been killed. Even under the best of circumstances, that being a highly skilled guard who is close to where the shooting starts and acts courageously--would do nothing but limit the death count. There would still be dead people. In other words, this idea is not a solution in the least. NRA = dishonest lobbying group spouting BS.


What’s your solution?

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quite a bit of stupid to unpack here, and not enough time, but a couple of notes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo


What was the FBI going to do to the kid? Answer: nothing. There was nothing to do--by it or the police--because the kid had not broken any laws. What, were they going to put him in jail? Sit outside his house day and night? Talk to him?  

As for the cowardly guard: His name is Scot Peterson. Contrary to your point, his inaction only shows that the NRA/Trump notion that some teacher or guard is going to morph into James Bond in the heat of the moment and save the day--amid hundreds of people running in all directions--is the usual gun-lobby nonsense. Your argument here is that because one cop didn't engage the shooter, all cops would respond in the same manner. Interesting. That's like saying because one black guy in Chicago killed someone, all blacks in Chicago will kill someone. Or because one illegal Mexican raped an American girl, all Mexican illegals will rape American girls. You clearly put a lot of thought into your position. Well done.   Look at the police who responded to Columbine--it took them HOURS to enter the school--disgraceful--during which time a wounded teacher died. They were cowardly. They weren't cowardly, they were following protocol at the time, which almost everyone agreed needed an upgrade. The current protocol calls for engaging the shooter immediately. So forget this silly, stupid idea that some Rambo gym teacher will save the day. He'd probably shoot the wrong person. Probably? How many licensed concealed carriers have engaged and shot the wrong person in the past year? You realize that the swat team in Parkland surrounded the wrong kid--had their guns trained on him. Had the kid made a wrong move with his arm he would have been killed. Do you have a link for this? Are you aware it's SWATs job to evaluate everyone present until the culprit is apprehended. It sounds like they were doing their job, and didn't shoot the wrong kid. IOW, they did their job properly. Good on them. Even under the best of circumstances, that being a highly skilled guard who is close to where the shooting starts and acts courageously--would do nothing but limit the death count.  There would still be dead people.  If Peterson had immediately confronted the shooter, there's a decent chance some of those 17 children would be alive. While a few extra dead kids clearly doesn't mean anything to you, it would mean a lot to those families to have their children back. In other words, this idea is not a solution in the least. NRA = dishonest lobbying group spouting BS.


What's your solution?

 

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kazoo

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
So many failures in this case, and they all had to happen to allow him through to do his murder.  Just sad all the way around.


No, not so many failures. Are you aware of how many people there are who act weird or crooked, or even might be considered dangerous? A lot. Law enforcement can do nothing about oddballs if they have not broken the law. And since the right-wing crazies think dangerous weapons should be as easily accessible in America as ham sandwiches, since the NRA encourages anyone and everyone to buy handguns and semi-automatic rifles, the kid did and carnage was the result. The only real failure was having semi-assault rifles available for purchase--you can buy an assault rifle before you can buy a beer. There's your failure. The rest is just NRA/right-wing bull$hit. The NRA facilitates our violent gun culture and then wants to blame others--"the elites!" for not protecting students from the dangers they've worked hard to create. But right-wingers tend to avoid uncomfortable facts--that's their MO. 

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Quite a bit of stupid to unpack here, and not enough time, but a couple of notes:



What's your solution?

 


Change our gun culture. Show our young people that guns are not only unnecessary, but do more harm than good for our society. I need a semi to hunt hogs. I need a semi to hold off the home invasions that occur every day in my neighborhood(sic). I need a semi to outgun the evil horde I cross every day going to work. I need a semi to fight the guvmint when they come to take my guns. I need a semi because it makes me look like Rambo. I need a semi because I want one. I need a semi to shoot Bobby and his friends for making fun of me in front of Linda Lou. 
All very legitimate reasons, but are any of them really worth a single human life. We can't remove all the guns at once, but limiting their availability will eventually cut the source. Hey, I wouldn't mind a national effort, with a nationally assembled task force, to pull neighborhood sweeps in areas where gun violence is rampant. Put police under cover(use local informants) and on the street to find the centers and go in and bust them. It will take time, but it is necessary. It is clear what we are presently doing is ineffective and turning schools into fortresses is counter to who we are and inhibits the educational experience. What happens to a school with all the entrances barricaded to allow for weapons checks, ala TSA, if a fire breaks out. Multiply this by the number of schools in our nation. 

Track gun sales and ownership
Hold owners accountable when guns are lost or stolen
Make stiff penalties for allowing legally bought guns to fall into the hands of criminals
Tax gun ownership to fund a reliable national data base that automatically updates purchases, transfers, and criminal and psychologically unstable behavior.
Hunt with single shot rifles.
Protect yourself with handguns and shotguns
Quit being stubborn and admit guns are the problem.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.         Eliminate one of them.



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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #71 
Fresh, here's the truth...........

The Congress and the FBI cannot be involved in solving the school safety problem.............Both are incompetent and corrupt.............

The solution has to come from school administrators..........Make it their job to keep their schools safe..........

I was carrying a coat under my arm entering a college softball game the other day..........They made me shake-out my coat to show 'em there was nothing under it..........No way an AR-15 gets in there..........Don't need a law for that...........


kazoo

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Posts: 1,174
Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
What’s your solution?


My solution is get rid of guns--ban all handguns and semi-assault rifles: no manufacture, no sale, no import, no trade. It would take some time to take effect--but we'd have a huge drop in gun crime. There is absolutely no reason to have semi-assault weapons for sale--totally insane and an example of how stupid America has become. If you want to play Rambo and shoot assault weapons, go to a licensed gun range and get your jollies there. Of course we had an assault-weapons ban in America and the craven GOP let the ban expire. 

Handguns are used for most violent gun crime in America. Get rid of handguns and cities become much, much safer--who would dispute that? Of course, the NRA and right-wing crazies would start another civil war if the government banned handguns. The NRA needs violent crime to promote the self-defense myth that has long been its hook for selling guns. If the bad guys don't have handguns, then the "good guys" don't need them--and then you don't have a gun industry in America. I lived in Japan for a time: It has zero gun violence because there are no guns in Japan. It's pretty nice--and Japan has a right-wing, but it's a pretty small country and, unlike in America, their backward yahoos don't have so much political clout. 

Nothing was more pathetic that seeing our moronic president at the listening session with students. First, he had to have crib notes to remind him to be human and empathetic, which of course do not come naturally to a man who's essentially a sleazy, corrupt mobster. Second, Trump sits there and parrots the idiotic NRA talking point about arming teachers, which is just more uncivilized behavior and is the opposite of a solution. Think about it for a moment: The NRA is saying: We need to arm teachers--who do not want to be armed--so that they can counter the other people in America who we have encouraged to buy arms! There's your right-wing virtual reality. Maybe the solution to gun violence is to stop selling and promoting guns. Duh! But conservatives prefer to pretend that problems don't really exist: this is their MO, and they spout a ton of BS trying to deflect attention from the problem. We see this with global warming--major disinformation campaign; we see it with health care; we see it with poverty and income inequality; we see it with gun violence. The GOP has no interest in solving real problems. It only wants to promote big business and give more breaks to the wealthy. 

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #73 
FBI couldn’t have done anything? Local law enforcement couldn’t have done anything?

Are you aware of Florida law on this situation? You are coming across as especially stupid on this one, and that’s saying a lot for you.
kazoo

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Posts: 1,174
Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Quite a bit of stupid to unpack here, and not enough time, but a couple of notes:



What's your solution?

 


I didn't suggest that all guards would act cowardly. I said that this NRA/GOP idea that more guards or arming teachers is a solution is stupid and insulting. First, if somebody wants to go to a crowded place--school, office complex, shopping area--and start shooting, nobody is in a position to stop him. So there will always be dead people; it's just a question of how many. If if there are dead people, then you haven't done anything to solve the problem. Even in the best of circumstances--a quick response from someone who's brave and well trained--there will be victims. So, again, arming MORE people does not solve the problem, as any logical person can see. So Trump just insults us by parroting the crazy NRA line. And my other point is that while some guards might act decisively, others will not. This is just the NRA/right trying to foist the responsibility for cleaning up their BS on somebody else. "Gee, why didn't you people protect those students from the people we encouraged to buy guns!?" Insulting. 

And the mental health excuse is a non-starter, too. 

It's time for people to understand that the GOP does not care about average Americans--does not care about the poor or disabled, does not care about human health or human safety. It cares about promoting business interests above all else. And so Republicans choose to promote gun sales rather than protect Americans from guns. It's how they roll. Same with pollution, some with health-care price gouging, same with everything....

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #75 
Arapahoe HS in Colorado, 2013.

Gunman goes on killing rampage and - oh wait - gunman immediately confronted by armed security and...

https://www.denverpost.com/2013/12/14/arapahoe-high-school-shooting-gunman-intended-to-harm-many-at-school/

What a good guy with a gun does.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #76 
Vance - Why so much hate and why so much low intellectual talk ming out of you? You have seemed to be intelligent before, but I think you’re letting your emotions get the best of you.


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #77 
So one of these knuckleheads wants to eliminate all handguns and his twin brother wants to eliminate long rifles.  The gun grabbers can't agree on what they want to get rid of now.  In typical fashion, guns will not be eliminated, they'll be made harder to get.

My one solution that I will offer up, just like alcohol, no sales to under 21.  There's a reason they don't sale alcohol to minors and guns are equally deadly to minors under 21

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #78 
Kaplooey is on tilt.  -----> Drink.
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keepinitreal

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Posts: 31,602
Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce
Kaplooey is on tilt.  -----> Drink.


I am

Medium Roast

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #80 
With “great minds” like Kazoo out there it’s no wonder we are in the situation we are.
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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #81 
Libs:
Let 16 year old kids vote. We need to hear their great ideas

Libs also:
At 21 you are not mature enough to own a gun. Your brain is not sufficiently developed

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #82 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo


What was the FBI going to do to the kid? Answer: nothing. There was nothing to do--by it or the police--because the kid had not broken any laws. What, were they going to put him in jail? Sit outside his house day and night? Talk to him?  

As for the cowardly guard: Contrary to your point, his inaction only shows that the NRA/Trump notion that some teacher or guard is going to morph into James Bond in the heat of the moment and save the day--amid hundreds of people running in all directions--is the usual gun-lobby nonsense. Look at the police who responded to Columbine--it took them HOURS to enter the school--disgraceful--during which time a wounded teacher died. They were cowardly. So forget this silly, stupid idea that some Rambo gym teacher will save the day. He'd probably shoot the wrong person. You realize that the swat team in Parkland surrounded the wrong kid--had their guns trained on him. Had the kid made a wrong move with his arm he would have been killed. Even under the best of circumstances, that being a highly skilled guard who is close to where the shooting starts and acts courageously--would do nothing but limit the death count. There would still be dead people. In other words, this idea is not a solution in the least. NRA = dishonest lobbying group spouting BS.

We don't need no James Bond.  We just need officer Gregory Stevens.  

Texas shooting: Officer with pistol stops rifle-wielding attackers - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/05/us/texas-police-shooting-hero/index.html


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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Libs: Let 16 year old kids vote. We need to hear their great ideas Libs also: At 21 you are not mature enough to own a gun. Your brain is not sufficiently developed


haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa the irony

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #84 
The SRO appears to have been an actual Parkland Police officer.  Broward County sheriff suspended Scott Peterson without pay, and Peterson resigned.

In that statement he stated that all officer training changed after Columbine.   Prior to Comubine the nation training protocol, which I believe comes from the FBI, was to establish a perimeter and wait for swat to get setup and take the guy out.  Post Columbine officers have been trained to immediately enter the building and engage the shooter in the fastest possible manner. 

Sheriff clearly believes Peterson was derelict in his actions. 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-shooting-sro-20180222-story.html

The sheriff has restricted two of his officers after reviewing the 30 visits to Cruz's residence.   This is in reference to not applying "the Baker Act".  2 of these visits included mental health counselors, and resulted Cruz getting anti depressant medicine.  Several of the visits and phone calls Cruz indicated he wanted to get a gun and shoot people.  A caller in November said he felt Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making.”

Clearly Florida law was not followed or Cruz would have been restricted from purchasing by the background check system.

Also the lack of FBI to be able to identify the person on the youtube comment that claimed he was going to be a school shooter, when that person used his actual name, is another major failure.

The system as designed had at least 3 opportunities to stop this, and it failed because people failed to do their job.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/florida-shooter-cruz-records-police-calls-to-home-invs/index.html

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BAMASportzLuvr

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Posts: 464
Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo


What was the FBI going to do to the kid? Answer: nothing. There was nothing to do--by it or the police--because the kid had not broken any laws. What, were they going to put him in jail? Sit outside his house day and night? Talk to him?  

As for the cowardly guard: Contrary to your point, his inaction only shows that the NRA/Trump notion that some teacher or guard is going to morph into James Bond in the heat of the moment and save the day--amid hundreds of people running in all directions--is the usual gun-lobby nonsense. Look at the police who responded to Columbine--it took them HOURS to enter the school--disgraceful--during which time a wounded teacher died. They were cowardly. So forget this silly, stupid idea that some Rambo gym teacher will save the day. He'd probably shoot the wrong person. You realize that the swat team in Parkland surrounded the wrong kid--had their guns trained on him. Had the kid made a wrong move with his arm he would have been killed. Even under the best of circumstances, that being a highly skilled guard who is close to where the shooting starts and acts courageously--would do nothing but limit the death count. There would still be dead people. In other words, this idea is not a solution in the least. NRA = dishonest lobbying group spouting BS.


Nope big stud - you are the one spouting BS. This merely shows you've not got the nads to come out from behind your mommy's skirt to take action when action is required. Here's a scene for you: We each have a weapon and are intent of removing the other from CO2. You best believe I am going to be the aggressor. I may not be the one without anymore need for oxygen but, you'd be damn close to the very same need. 

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Libs: Let 16 year old kids vote. We need to hear their great ideas Libs also: At 21 you are not mature enough to own a gun. Your brain is not sufficiently developed


This is exactly right.  They are currently pushing both of these ideas.  Crazy.

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BAMASportzLuvr

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Reply with quote  #87 
Liberals have their guts owned by Satan. He owns them and rejoices in their cowardly mannerisms. Libs would put their immediate family member(s) as shields in front of them, as any advancement towards them has the wusses of the world react in this manner. Nads? They probably have the outer cores, but there is close to nothing inside them. The world has those who do and those who don't.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist



The system as designed had at least 3 opportunities to stop this, and it failed because people failed to do their job.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/florida-shooter-cruz-records-police-calls-to-home-invs/index.html


Sounds like we have some coaching opportunities here.  Rule 1, don't hire pussies like kazooturd and freshyturd

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #89 
Exactly UWA - Baker act. Too busy to look it up today.

Fraud Vance Law exposed for regurgitating dem talking points.
Lost_1

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Posts: 3,597
Reply with quote  #90 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
Ask the students if they if care what liberal and conservative are. (They don't). They are the unified voices that will bring change.

Good luck finding all those Vets to work as SRO for the school system pay. We work on voluntary Vets hiring to get to around  seven percent or more of a company's workforce, and it is difficult. There is just not enough of them. If you have a security clearance you are going elsewhere for the pay (NSA and government contractors will triple the pay of what you get in the school system and actually use your brain).

They are already trying to get retirees to come back as teachers and some come back but to then Vet and then want to be a security guard? Again small group. Good luck. (I am all for this idea, but it is not the answer. Banning a gun that took out an entire organ and just killed a HS school student in Florida is the answer. If it had been a pistol, the student would have lived.)





Really a stupid statement, .223 is a rifle cartridge that has been around for well over 60yrs. 

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


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