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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #61 
IMHO! Greed has become a word like racist, homophobe, etc... that is used to shut people up.  Instead of people looking at actions that people have done they just thinkI dont want to be thought of that way, its not good.  I am ver glad to see people stepping up for ChicFil A.  If the guy was greedy I dont think he would be closed on Sundays and be building christain svhools etc... to help community and country, but thats not convenient for a certain ideology that benefits from tearing down christianity andstealing freedom with big govt that robs us of the TRUE AMERICAN DREAM.
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Susan
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #62 
10er - Then why is it that I'm not a multi millionaire?    
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #63 
Your example of granpa dewey may as well been frodo trying to destroy the one ring....a story.

You continue to ignore the fact that racial segregation was going on during that time and many top businesses and companies supported segregation.
There was no interracial marriage groups protesting or fighting for interracial marriage...there were groups fighting for women's rights, civil rights, and integrating. There was no internet or cell phones or cable tv. If you complained about a business you personally had to go protest. You took the risk of getting your butt whipped by those supporting the restaurant and as blacks or native americans etc. you had no rights back then so it was your word against theirs and you started the violence is how it will show in police report. You will be beaten up then arrested. It was not 2012 with point and click or tweet. Blacks were at the back of the bus and gays were in the closet. Why didn't most gays come out of the closet back then? Why did no gay celebrities, politians or athletes come out then? It was a different time.

People did not support anti-interracial marriage back then.....segregation took care of that. Being married to a white woman was secondary to not being able to eat with her in public, sit with her in public, be in same part of bus as her, be in same movie theatre, or live together. White's only areas and businesses meant you could be together in public anyways in those states.

As far as companies that supported things are there people boycott university of alabama for it's part in trying to keep segregation going and requiring feds to force them in person to allow blacks in?

What about coke? Pepsi decided to tap the black marget back then. They used posters and ads that portrayed blacks in positive way.



They hired blacks and expanded their appeal. They caught coke in sales. How did coke respond--their drivers attacked pepsi deliveries and even started a rumor that a black man drowned in one of Pepsi's syrup tanks, leading to a boycott of the cola in North Carolina. After the owner died they went back to status quo advertising and operating.

Coke played both sides during World War Two... they supported the American troops but also kept making soda for the Nazis. Then, in 1941, the German branch of Coke ran out of syrup, and couldn't get any from America because of wartime restrictions.

International success of coke was in germany. When they ran out it they had to do something. At this time owner died and his right hand mand, german born Max keith took over. With no means of making coke he created a new drink for the company - Fanta.
The name contest winner said let your fantasie (german for fantasy) run wild. And the name fanta was born. Fanta was the soft drink of germany during ww2 and it's sugar shortage. Coke keep interests going in germany during ww2.  We had manufactuers like hugo boss that made nazi uniforms.


A lot of banks sided with the Nazis during World War Two. Chase is the most prominent. They froze European Jewish customers' accounts and were extremely cooperative in providing banking service to Germany.

Going to boycott ford?
Henry Ford was anti-Semite.. He was Hitler's most famous foreign backer. On his 75th birthday, in 1938, Ford received a Nazi medal, designed for "distinguished foreigners."
He profiteered off both sides of the War -- he was producing vehicles for the Nazis AND for the Allies

How about IBM?
IBM custom-build machines for the Nazis that they could use to track everything... from oil supplies to train schedules into death camps to Jewish bank accounts to individual Holocaust victims themselves.
In September of 1939, when Germany invaded Poland, the "New York Times" reported that three million Jews were going to be "immediately removed" from Poland and were likely going to be "exterminat[ed]."
 IBM's reaction? An internal memo saying that, due to that "situation", they really needed to step up production on high-speed alphabetizing equipment

The list goes on.
There are books about IBM, ford, etc and their involvements.
There are comapnies and universities that supported segregation but there was no big interracial debate going on nationally since at the time blacks were segregated had their own neighborhoods, schools, businesses, theatres, stores etc.
This is not the case with gay mariage today. There are nto seperate water fountains, facilities, etc. and gays cannot vote, hold office etc. No sign saying chick fill a doesn't serve gays not one saying gay couples cannot come in and eat. Local sheriff isn't arresting people for being gay at a heterosecual only restaraunt. Disney doesn't have a gay section of park. Not the same. Different time.

And sure a couple who dislikes chick fill A can not eat there out of protest. But having kiss ins and people like rosanne barr cursing the company etc is over the top. And there is no justification for people trying to punish them nationally via social medium (which didnt exist back then). My point was if we punish people for things they suppoted alot of things would be on the list like coke,  ibm, universities, people, etc.


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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #64 
Susan - It's all a matter of values.  Gordon Gecko said "Greed is good" and gave carte blanche to a whole generation of capitalists to desert their previous values system in favor of the singular value of the profit motive.  Speaking of words, define "corruption" for me in terms of the profit motive.

Before you leap, I am not saying that all capitalists are corrupt, just some.  

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #65 
Joisey, I would reply but it would be redundant since others have already spoken the same sentiments.
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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix
And there is no justification for people trying to punish them nationally via social medium..



fhoenix - How about throwing chickens off a ship?  I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of but I'm just saying telling folks they can't marry the adult they love is going to upset some people and they are going to voice their concerns and protest the efforts to deny them of their rights.  Now they could put the CEO of Chik-fil-a in clown face and post it all over the internet but that wouldn't be very constructive and their support would dwindle.  But refusing to spend your money in a business contributing towards efforts to deny you your rights is perfectly understandable.  By the way, can chickens fly?  I wouldn't want them to get hurt. ;-)

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by musftblfan
Christianity: where "keeping to the faith" means snidely going out of your way to be a dick by buying chicken sandwiches from a corporation. 

I'm gay and don't mind that their CEO has so and so opinions. But seriously, this is the best you can do? Keep up the good fight, Christians. Keep it up.


This is truly one of the most offensive posts I have read on this forum. Shame on you.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #68 
Dewey - explain this to me. If many people are put off by same sex kissing, as we both know the majority of people are, why would throwing that in the face of the general public do anything to support the cause?

I plenty of gay folks. It's not for me, but what they do at home is their business. I wouldn't start making out with my wife in a Chick Fil A. I imagine that would put some people out.

I think that acting out in that way hurts the cause more than helps it.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #69 
No, they will be lauded by their peers as "fighting the good fight" and they will get their 15min of fame on various media outlets.
We truly have become a nation driven by the vocaL minority. 
The age of instant electronic media gives credence to any and every viewpoint no matter the merit. 
note..Generic statement before anyone accuses me of being a homophobe, not that I care...
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #70 
mikec - I haven't read what's planned with regards to kissing but I would probably agree with you and say such a protest would not be at the top of my recommendation.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #71 
Sorry - shouldn't have questioned you so specifically. I thought at first you were defending the kiss in, but after re-reading, it seems you were more defending the right to protest. That, and maybe gay marriage as well, but that's too big of a topic to even try to discuss.

Apologies.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #72 
This is not a gay rights issue.  This is a first amendment issue.  It's infuriating that gay militants are so hypocritical in their intolerance of what others believe.  Cathy only re-affirmed his belief in traditional marriage.  The horror!  He said nothing disparaging about gay people and nobody can point to any of his actions with regard to customers that would lead one to believe he is malicious toward the gay community.  The real issue is the intolerance of the vocal gay community.  Some on this thread have identified themselves as gay and not particularly caring about this issue.  I respect those people.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #73 
mikec - No problem.  I thought you were simply asking my opinion.  As for the majority of people being put off by same sex kissing, I'm not sure how anyone knows that.  Instead, I'd be put off if someone found a need to poll such a question.  In my case, I find the ceremonial kiss at same sex weddings, or any wedding for that matter, to be quite touching.

pabar - I could start a thread saying citizens of Southern States should not have a right to vote and probably spark a little outrage.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #74 
Dewey - I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying but I will always defend your right to state an opinion such as the example you cite (knowing full well you would never make such a statement in reality).  Again, my frustration with this topic is that I feel the most important issue has been subordinated to the issue that is advanced by the most vocal community.

Rahm Emanuel is certainly welcome to say he will try to prevent from Chick-Fil-A from building in Chicago but from a legal standpoint, he would lose.

Our society is at risk if we start allowing people to punish others simply for exercising their first amendment rights.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #75 
pabar - Punish is a vague word.  Ask Van Jones, Senator Lott, Congressman Wiener, Reverend Wright, Jane Fonda, Michigan Rep. Lisa Brown,....
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #76 
I wasn't saying don't protest I was saying quit making revisionist examples from 1960 to justify actions of 2012. Back then gays were in closet, women were seen but not heard and homemakers that had few rights , blacks were second class citizens in their own neighborhoods and segregated so they do not mix with whites, and indians were on the reservations and not mixing with whites. A different time.

If you protest a business because of their views and whom they support then you will protest many companies to be true to your convictions. If you are offended chick fill A supports traditional marriage you probably don't drink coke products, nor use ibm, don't use bayer asperin, don't wear certain clothes because several companies had their clothes done in factories in germany during ww2 and they were made by slave labor from rounded up slavs and jewish peoples. You don't support alabama because of the universities national part in segregation. You don't eat girl scout cookies because the girl scouts are partnered with planned parenthood. Some of our luxury products and items come from overseas child labor and sweat shops.

If you personally eat at chick fill A because you support their beliefs or personally will not eat at chick fill A because of their beliefs---fine.
But don't try and compare chick fill A supporting traditional marriage as evil and they must be punished.
I like chick fill A chicken. Got some friday. But I will not be there on Aug 1 or Aug 3.

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airborne

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Reply with quote  #77 
The owners of OPEC do not support same sex marriage. Hell they don't support same sex anything. Their penalties are far worse than anything done over here too. Anyone boycotting their gas?

Didn't think so.

Hypocrites

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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #78 
JG, IMHO, people are trying to make profit  equal to greed. It suits their dislike of capitalism. As I have said on here before govt has created much of what is being screamed about.  Look at fannie and freddie.  Liberals are back to fining banks for discrimination when these people simply cant afford the home loans and that is what started the recent economic crash.  Govt has made the regs that have made banks to big to fail while padding the pockets of their buddies.  John Corzine is a perfect example.  The competition of capitalism usually will not allow monopolization.  Its when govt screws things up all for the sake of making things better and safer, that is kills the capitalism natural safe guards with people control.  But naturally people controlling doesnt suit those who favor govt centered control which has proven to create more of the crap you are talking about over history than capitalism when left alone.

Is there greed yes.  The amount is far less than many would like us to believe as it suits their ideological bent.  Greed and profit have become dirty words.  Capitalism if left alone polices itself much better than govt because you leave control in all of the peoples hands where govt takes the power and puts it in too few hands.

When the mayors of cities start trying to dictate speech, values, etc.. it is not only illegal, it is wrong.  Talk about precursor to tyranny.  Chicago is a good example of the Liberal ideology and how poorly its worked.  

 Chik Fil A deserves the backing of all that believe in this country, our constitution, free speech, and good ole capitalism.

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Susan
10er

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Dewey - I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying but I will always defend your right to state an opinion such as the example you cite (knowing full well you would never make such a statement in reality).  Again, my frustration with this topic is that I feel the most important issue has been subordinated to the issue that is advanced by the most vocal community.

Rahm Emanuel is certainly welcome to say he will try to prevent from Chick-Fil-A from building in Chicago but from a legal standpoint, he would lose.

Our society is at risk if we start allowing people to punish others simply for exercising their first amendment rights.
The Mayors of Chicago & Boston in my view have crossed the line. They do not have the right to favor people or a business in this case  or disfavor them based on if they the business favors their personal beliefs. If they were successful in closing down or stopping a Chic-Fil-A from opening, would they not be stepping on the rights of those who put them in office in the first place-those of which like or frequent the restaurant. The question; If allowed, what others can these mayors shut down or hinder? Who do these people think they are? Let the people decide?

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big 10-#1
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #80 
10er - Agreed.  Dewey - maybe I should have said "attempt to punish".  Of all those mentioned, the only one I'll mention is Jane Fonda who is truly a traitor to this country and who I would spit on if given the chance.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airborne
The owners of OPEC do not support same sex marriage. Hell they don't support same sex anything. Their penalties are far worse than anything done over here too. Anyone boycotting their gas?

Didn't think so.

Hypocrites


hmmmm

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #82 
CNN plays Stupid Girls before showing video of Sarah Palin and her husband Todd supporting Chik Fil A.  Another perfect example of media bias and how they are manipulating what the CEO said.
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Susan
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #83 
By the way, we don't know if the CEO supports civil unions.  Nobody has bothered to ask him.  I suspect not given his religious views but it goes to show the hysteria that the left naturally creates when they feel "wronged".  CNN is not a legitimate "news" organization.  Nor is ABC or the others in the so-called mainstream media.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #84 
pabar - As opposed to the "hysteria" of the right when they feel wronged?  Of course the right, especially the Christian right, has all the answers while others are still analyzing the questions and looking for solutions to problems. The far left does the same thing with an emotional hysteria that often erupts into violence.  Wow, plenty of reasons to look at both askance and use ones nature given intellect to seek personal answers to societal problems.     Frank
PS:  I once had a brilliant professor who said, "The huge problems in thought throughout history are not problems of right and wrong, but rather problems of right and right. Cool perspective !!! 

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #85 
A constant refrain from the left on such issues.  "You do it too".  Look, the left has all the main and not-so-main media outlets at their disposal - ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, PBS, NYT, LA Times, Washington Post, the majority of college faculty, and Hollywood.  The right has FoxNews and talk radio.  We hardly have the ability to create the hysteria that the left does. 

The hypocrisy in this case is stunning.  Rahm Emanuel says he will try to ban Chick-Fil-A from building stores in Chicago because its CEO says he supports traditional marriage.  Meanwhile, Emanuel embraces Farrakhan, a known anti-Semite and leader of the Nation of Islam.  And what group is specifically hated by Muslims besides Jews and Christians? Gays.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix
I wasn't saying don't protest I was saying quit making revisionist examples from 1960 to justify actions of 2012. Back then gays were in closet, women were seen but not heard and homemakers that had few rights , blacks were second class citizens in their own neighborhoods and segregated so they do not mix with whites, and indians were on the reservations and not mixing with whites. A different time.

If you protest a business because of their views and whom they support then you will protest many companies to be true to your convictions. If you are offended chick fill A supports traditional marriage you probably don't drink coke products, nor use ibm, don't use bayer asperin, don't wear certain clothes because several companies had their clothes done in factories in germany during ww2 and they were made by slave labor from rounded up slavs and jewish peoples. You don't support alabama because of the universities national part in segregation. You don't eat girl scout cookies because the girl scouts are partnered with planned parenthood. Some of our luxury products and items come from overseas child labor and sweat shops.

If you personally eat at chick fill A because you support their beliefs or personally will not eat at chick fill A because of their beliefs---fine.
But don't try and compare chick fill A supporting traditional marriage as evil and they must be punished.
I like chick fill A chicken. Got some friday. But I will not be there on Aug 1 or Aug 3.


fhoenix - Again, you're losing me and maybe our readers too.  A CEO chose to state his beliefs publicly and apparently had contributed money to organizations who financially support the fight against making same sex marriage legal.  That is offensive to millions of Americans.  If he does not want his financial support to be used in the fight against same sex marriage, he should probably say that out loud.

I don't know if these upset Americans find this CEO evil, heartless, misguided, wrong, or uncaring, but I do know they are quite upset that anyone would make an effort to deny them of their individual rights.  Most every one of us would react the same.  It's just that simple and you, or anyone, telling them a boycott of Chik-fil-a, or publicly rebuking the CEO is unwarranted, will likely be ignored.  There is no requirement that we must protest everything we find unfair in life in order to protest one thing we find discriminating.  I suppose if Companies come out and say we support child labor and sweat shops and are searching to find more for use, they'll find themselves in hot water too.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
10er - Agreed.  Dewey - maybe I should have said "attempt to punish".  Of all those mentioned, the only one I'll mention is Jane Fonda who is truly a traitor to this country and who I would spit on if given the chance.


See, we all have our breaking point where we find a need to hold somebody accountable.  We're more alike than people realize.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #88 
Dewey - again, this is a free speech issue.  If either the mayor of Boston or Chicago attempt to deny the company from opening a store in their city based on comments made by the CEO, who comments and contributes (if that's true) on his own behalf and not on behalf of the company, that is discrimination.  If the company sues either city, it will win.

There may be millions of Americans who find his beliefs offensive.  I would be willing to bet that there are many more millions of Americans who agree with his beliefs.  Does that not matter?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #89 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

fhoenix - Again, you're losing me and maybe our readers too. 


Count me in the number that is not lost.  fhoenix style of writing and refreshing, respectful and informative posts is perhaps the least partisan of any of the members of this misc. forum.  I had once wanted to ask fhoenix if they are a writer by profession.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #90 
keepinitreal - Then explain it to me.  Is he saying protest or not to protest?  Is he saying you can't protest this discrimination if you don't protest all that's wrong in the world?  Is he saying women who fought for the right to vote are different than gays who fight for the right to marry?  Set me straight.

PS:  You should read fhoenix more carefully as he has shared his profession many times.  Yes, he is very thoughful, well spoken, and respectful in what he writes.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
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