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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #151 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61

  Obama is all tax increases and spending.



Once again, Republicans lower tax rates, (hopefully to lock them in forever), and call it tax savings.  Democrats leave rates the same but return some of the revenue, when tax savings are called for, and it goes down as spending.  See stimulus 2009 for one of the largest tax cuts in history that Republicans label as spending.  I don't know how they label payroll tax cuts.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #152 
"......and then I shall consult someone who is a bible scholar and much more reputable than you."

Funny, Joisey, how you talk about reputation when Satan, himself, is as fine a Bible scholar as there is....And, the master of lies and deception......
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #153 
Look, bluedog, I see no reason to get into a peeing contest with you about your beliefs about the bible.  One of your friends posted that you are a nice guy.  I'll accept that, but not your personal bible interpretation.  Stick with personal values with me, and I think we will concur on many things.  Have a wonderful life.    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #154 
"........but not your personal bible interpretation."

Joisey,....I will not accept any false teacher spreading the lies of Satan by misrepresenting the Bible.......I will stick with that philosophy and I will never change.....

"Thou shalt not kill" was never meant to mean no killing allowed by the Creator....Many of the Bible patriarchs killed.....Some by command of the Creator....Moses, King David and Paul were amongst those who killed....And, someday, I will meet them, all....
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #155 
bluedog - OK but it sounds like an Iranian ayatollah pronouncement to me. As I said, live your life with good principles and values and I'm the first guy in your corner.  However, for me to really believe that you are the one guy anointed by the almighty to interpret the bible correctly is a huge stretch.  Simply amazing hubris (arrogant pride).  Dante Aligheri had a particular circle in Hell in "The Inferno" for those with arrogant pride. Beware !!   
Frank

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
10er

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Reply with quote  #156 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
JG - an impressive and epic post.  But I take issue with the characterization that "prime the pump" and "trickle down" have had similar results.  Reagan's policies of lowering taxes (called trickle down by the left) was intended to spur production which is the true driver of the economy.  The result was superior economic growth as compared to this recovery.  That conclusion is supported by GDP growth numbers in both Reagan's and Obama's first few years in office.  "Priming the pump" throws money at consumers with the flawed idea that consumer activity will create demand and, therefore, create the need for production.  The problem is that putting more money into the system has the consequence of raising prices because there are too many dollars chasing relatively too few goods.  Those excess profits are then returned to the investors who have put their money into the companies that provide the best return on their investment.

Except for the impact of printing money, there is a finite supply of capital circulating throughout the economy and, as Susan points out, the more of it that is guided through government, the less there is seeking the best return on investment.  We all know that government neither creates economic activity nor provides returns on investment.  Austrian economics tells us, with historical evidence, that a free market economy, or capitalism, works best when unfettered by government intrusion.  That is because governments don't have a profit motive which is required for innovation and growth.  Dollars seeking return.  Keynesian economics, on the other hand, insists that government must step in periods of diminished economic growth with stimulus to spur the economy through consumption.  It doesn't work because consumption is a result of a strong economy, not the driver of it.  It's all about production.

The longer we go borrowing and monetizing our debt the more painful will be the inevitable correction.
Great Post. As I have said before the problem is that the politicians do not have a clue on how to get by without borrowing huge sums of money.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #157 
pabar - What a great response to my post.  Your points are deeply imbedded in my mind except for one that I disagree with and is too insignificant to debate.  Love your post !!!  We live and learn if we are relatively open minded and seek understanding and not simply reinforcement of our already assumed perspective.      Frank
PS - If production is the driving force in economics, must it occur within a nation state to drive the micro economy??????   We have become used to discussing government only in economic terms.  Is government an economic system??  If it is, what is the result??  

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #158 
I might not post after this for a long while, but I wanted to say this.  I read a lot of Party rhetoric here that has little if anything to do with the reason that our beloved nation is headed for second tier in our world or for that matter anything like a solution for our demise.  In my opinion, the real problem in our nation is neither Party, but the corrupted Washington Way that has allowed corruption to be the method of doing business daily, and the method of doing business is almost solely economic and personal economic gain.  The nobility of ideas that once was my nation has been buried in corporate contracts and the purchasing of power by an upper echelon of our society that enjoys the adage that "money makes money".  What once was "The American Dream" is realistically open to a very, very few.  We no longer talk in terms of the noble values that our founding fathers assumed, but rather in term of whatever is the fallout from the profit motive.  Simply put, we are not the nation that our forefathers gave to us, but rather a status seeking, profit motive deciding group of people who can't understand that nobility is not carried on the back of a dollar bill.  In some ways I am glad that I'm very old and have seen the best of my nation before its decline.    Frank 
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #159 
JG - I agree with your characterization of a corrupted Washington Way.  That aspect of our system is inherent in both main political parties.  Most of our politicians focus primarily on their own careers.

I don't agree that the American way is open to only a few.  What I believe has happened is that expectations have been lowered incredibly so that some in our political class try to push dependency rather than personal responsibility.  Thus, we have record numbers on welfare and food stamps and a record low workforce.

I also don't believe that the profit motive has caused the majority of the problems we currently face.  It HAS contributed but government interference, in my opinion, has had a greater impact.  Think support of FNMA and FMAC.  Think Dodd-Frank.

To answer the question in your previous post, government isn't, or shouldn't be, an economic system. Government's role should be that of impartial observer and occasional referee.  Think Sarbanes-Oxley which many people don't like but I think makes companies more responsible.  It should also provide a safety net but not a hammock.  I stole that last one from someone else but I don't remember who.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #160 

fairuse palin chickfila cc 120730 wblog Palin, Santorum and Dewhurst Stand by Chick fil A That Mayor Dubs Hate Chicken

Image credit: Facebook/Sarah Palin


Chick-fil-A has worn out its welcome with the mayors of Boston, San Francisco and Chicago, but some Texas politicians are more than ready to welcome the controversial restaurant chain with their Southern hospitality.

Texas Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, who’s engaged in a tight GOP primary to fill retiring Kay Bailey Hutchison’s U.S. Senate seat, held a campaign rally outside an Austin Chick-fil-A this morning to show his support for the restaurant. The company has been embroiled in controversy for the past week after its CEO, Dan Cathy, said he does not support gay marriage, only the “biblical definition of the family unit.”

Dewhurst, who supports a constitutional amendment defining marriage between one man and one woman, chastised Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel for saying Chick-fil-A wasn’t welcome in Chicago because its “values are not Chicago values.”

“In Texas, we don’t try and be politically correct,” Dewhurst said today, according to the Dallas Morning News. “We want people to have freedom of their beliefs, freedom of religion.”

Dewhurst spokesman Matt Hirsch told ABC News that the Dewhurst campaign chose to hold one of its final events before Tuesday’s election at the South Austin Chick-fil-A to “show his support for the company” and remind voters that Dewhurst is “encouraging people to come to Texas to invest and create jobs.”

At a rally this weekend for rival Ted Cruz, conservative darling Sarah Palin said she loves “me some Chick-fil-A” and promised to stop by the restaurant after her speech.


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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #161 
pabar - Terrific post well thought out - thanks !    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #162 
CoachB258 - Same sex marriage should be supported in the Democrat platform. 

On another note, what do you mean by we're headed for a great battle in our Country.  A violent one or the normal partisan divide we have now?  I've heard others say the same and I'm interested in why the warnings and what's the meaning of a "battle"?

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #163 
Is the discussion about gay marriage a religious one (sacrament?), or a biological one (one man and one woman can make babies and two men or women can't), or a financial one (we're joining to form a legal person)??  Maybe we should just call it by a different legal name, like "committed union" or something.  Then again, the word "union" is a dirty word to many corporate people.  Geez, I'll have to rethink this whole thing.   Frank

1.  I am not of any religion so I don't view marriage as a sacrament.

2.  My wife is 77, and I am 80, so we aren't going to be making any babies soon - does that mean we aren't married anymore?

3.  Aha, I get it - it's a financial thing wherein two folks get together in a common feeling of love and caring, and establish a legal entity, both a taxable entity and an entity entitled to the financial benefits of all "legal unions"  and often those of any nuclear family in our nation.  

4. I must have gone astray somewhere because some folks have their tail feathers all ruffled up about this.  Think they are coming from a different frame of reference??  

Frank

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
10er

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Reply with quote  #164 
Just a thought, why are they protesting Chic-Fil-A anyhow, the CEO & his family didn't build that business , the Gov did. The protest should be at the WH.
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DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #165 
Frank -
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Gonein2point6

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Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocklifter
  I shudder to think what would have happened to his business if he stated something racial....the stores would have been marched upon, protested, and his life would be in danger. 
 


Interesting that the percieved reaction to racial comments is the thing that would bother you.

I love this board.

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There's plenty of white to go around
Do you think its right when you hit me to the ground
Well, light me up when I'm down"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #167 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocklifter
  ..the stores would have been marched upon, protested, and his life would be in danger. 
 


That will have to wait until August 3rd.

August 3rd made me think for a second what is about to happen.  Dewey seems to think vitriol has no place in politics, wrong.  Someone who stands by their convictions will get very emotional at times.  That brings me to August 3rd, how can you chastise one side for being emotional on a subject and not the other?

The Chick-fil-a nearest to where I live is always packed with people.  Drive thru is full, the dining room is full, the take-out line is full.  It is a really busy fast food joint.  Many, I would say half of the crowd, at any given time is 12 yrs old and under.  There are birthday parties here almost daily for children, they are the new McDonalds of birthday parties.

How is the kiss-in and the PDAs going to be received in this arena of youth?  And Dewey, how will the kiss-in get others to receive their message without first being very, very pissed off? 

PDAs are for 13-15 year old immature teenagers.  Homo, bi, or heterosexuals or trannies for that matter, do not normally act this way.  Will this be something people will have to get used to in public settings or will it go away?

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #168 
Pabar and Frank love your posts.

Agree with pabarre decreased taxes equal increased GDP and it has been shown historically here.  Lately even in Canada and is why they are doing better than we are.

Frank to me the federal govt is not obligated to make sure people have minimal standards of living or healthcare.  Those are humanitarian standards that socialists and communists like to attribute to govt to take money and power.

To me there is no national morality.  Once again morality is about people not govt.  I believe Americans are great and the majority of the people in America are moral, good people and is shown by its giving over the centuries.  Sometimes I think we are too generous and that is used by a small minority.  There is good and bad in everything in life and as you say it is finding that balance.

IMHO, it is the govt  that has been the biggest discriminator of all and created the most haves and have nots.  Some of this intentional, some from unforseen consequences.



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Susan
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #169 
Pabar and Frank love your posts.

Agree with pabarre decreased taxes equal increased GDP and it has been shown historically here.  Lately even in Canada and is why they are doing better than we are.

Frank to me the federal govt is not obligated to make sure people have minimal standards of living or healthcare.  Those are humanitarian standards that socialists and communists like to attribute to govt to take money and power.

To me there is no national morality.  Once again morality is about people not govt.  I believe Americans are great and the majority of the people in America are moral, good people and is shown by its giving over the centuries.  Sometimes I think we are too generous and that is used by a small minority.  There is good and bad in everything in life and as you say it is finding that balance.

IMHO, it is the govt  that has been the biggest discriminator of all and created the most haves and have nots.  Some of this intentional, some from unforseen consequences.



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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #170 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
  Dewey seems to think vitriol has no place in politics, wrong.  Someone who stands by their convictions will get very emotional at times. 


Funny, I thought these threads started out because people objected to the emotional reaction of supporters of same sex marriage along with a couple of mayors.  Now we've done a complete 180.  Enjoy your sandwich.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #171 
Sorry tablet being pain again.  

Frank to finish, I do believe the American Dream is live and well. It may be a little harder these days, but still is very alive.  Thank God.

Yes, there are materialistic people but I do believe strongly that the majority are good hard working people that do have our founders values.  They just arent usually as vociferous as the others, but they are learning to use their voices and how to take a stand to swing the pendulum back to look for a better balance once again.

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Susan
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #172 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
  Dewey seems to think vitriol has no place in politics, wrong.  Someone who stands by their convictions will get very emotional at times. 


Funny, I thought these threads started out because people objected to the emotional reaction of supporters of same sex marriage along with a couple of mayors.  Now we've done a complete 180.  Enjoy your sandwich.


Sorry dewster, it started with your one person celebration of the good times for the demos [I saw no others celebrating the 'good' times with you], the match in the hay barn with me, and it continued with your fascination that someone could call your president a clown.

No 180 here, a horse is a horse, of course of course.  (Pics provided by Bill)

Way to avoid the question about what would happen if your grandkids were asking questions about the kiss-a-thon while they were eating their meals.  I am sure you would tell them straight wouldn't you Dewey?

Sorry you don't even know the time line either, it started with Mr. Cathy appearing on Huckabee, Mr. Cathy did not suggest the August 1st eat at CFA day, Mike Huckabee did.  It gained steam and was too big to stop from the Huckabee show.  The mayors are the ones who reacted to the CFA appreciation day.  Mr. Cathy, I saw the interview live, just shrugged his shoulders and answered questions, the mayors are idiots (and have basically admitted they reacted too quickly) and should have never been involved. 

****I am not making this up and I do have links

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #173 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonein2point6
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocklifter
  I shudder to think what would have happened to his business if he stated something racial....the stores would have been marched upon, protested, and his life would be in danger. 
 


Interesting that the percieved reaction to racial comments is the thing that would bother you.

I love this board.


I sometimes wonder where your head is.....
I merely mentioned that if it were a racial comment the reaction would be much worse. My opinions are mine. We are all products of our upbringing. If you do not like my views so be it. Like it or not I agree with Mr. Cathy.

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #174 

To counter Huckabee, numerous boycotts ("Eat at KFC Day") and silent protests organized by supporters of same sex marriage are scheduled for Aug. 1. And the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation is backing the National Same-Sex Kiss Day on Aug. 3, to be held at Chick-fil-A restaurants nationwide.

Since being founded by Dan Cathy's father, Truett Cathy, in 1946, all 1,608 Chick-fil-A stores have been closed on Sundays, a day of rest for most Christians. The WinShape Foundation—Chick-fil-A's charitable arm—donated more than $1.1 million between 2003 and 2008 to groups that advocate for traditional marriage (and against same-sex unions), doubling that amount to $2 million in 2009.


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix

 And the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation is backing the National Same-Sex Kiss Day on Aug. 3, to be held at Chick-fil-A restaurants nationwide.

 



Some of you dewey should put your money where your keyboard is and visit Chik-fil-a with your grandkids on Friday August 3rd.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #176 
kir-

Mindful of your request,



Even though this is about Chick-Fil-A, figured you didn't want a .gif of choking a...


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Bill Smith
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info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #177 
Twenty years from now we'll be reading stories like this.  There is no jail time being threatened today but you'll get the idea.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #178 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan

I ate at In-N-Out and they were packed with the overflow crowd that didn't want to wait in line at Chick-fil-A.  Same thing at Five Guys. 


Interesting that this agenda is being launched against Chick-fil-A, while little ol' In-N-Out isn't have anything to do with it.  Maybe because In-N-Out isn't a national chain, but weren't the founders of In-N-Out just as Protestant, and maybe they are even more in-your-face about it with the bible verses they put on their containers.  I personally stay away from In-N-Out because I'm not a native Californian and the real reason is because I can't stand the line that always forms there.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #179 


The line outside an Englewood, Colo., Chick-fil-A, Aug. 1, 2012

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #180 
Positive support trumps negative.

Showing up to support a company and buying their product helps them socially and financially.
Showing up to same sex kiss will not hurt them financially nor will it financially help gay marriage groups. Occupy chick fill A is a flash-mob reaction. Instead of going out same sex kissing at chick fill A  put your money where your mouth (lips) is---donate to gay marriage groups.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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