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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #61 
Fresh has been Grubered.
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #62 
Can't the Right get a think tank to put out a study showing the tax bill not adding to the debt?  Is it just bad luck on their part that all the studies so far appear to say otherwise?
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #63 
See what Cato says duaine
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #64 
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/republican-tax-plan-no-revolution-it-will-boost-us-economy
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #65 

Republican Tax Plan Is No Revolution but It Will Boost the US Economy


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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #66 




#notsnopes

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #67 
A boost to the economy...yes.  Enough to increase revenue to cover the lost tax income...no.  Therefore long term debt rises.  The CATO link makes that point and suggests Republicans should pay heed.

A more legitimate economic concern is the effect on the US public finances. The bill is forecast to add $1.5 trillion over 10 years to the national debt — lower once the macroeconomic effects on growth are factored in; higher again if the tax cuts are not allowed to expire.

This sum is unlikely to have catastrophic consequences for the US’s ability to borrow, not least because it’s relatively small compared to capital available on global markets. But with the potential impact of a future recession and the headwinds of an ageing population to come, there is a case for getting the US’s fiscal house in order and this inevitably will not help. Republicans have been right to highlight over many years how, at a first approximation, the US’s terrifying debt outlook is driven by rising entitlement spending caused by an ageing population.

But they may find it a bit harder to make the case for cutting future healthcare or pensions spending if they are seen to be blasé about the debt in relation to tax cuts today.


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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
A boost to the economy...yes.  Enough to increase revenue to cover the lost tax income...no.  Therefore long term debt rises.  The CATO link makes that point and suggests Republicans should pay heed.

A more legitimate economic concern is the effect on the US public finances. The bill is forecast to add $1.5 trillion over 10 years to the national debt — lower once the macroeconomic effects on growth are factored in; higher again if the tax cuts are not allowed to expire.

This sum is unlikely to have catastrophic consequences for the US’s ability to borrow, not least because it’s relatively small compared to capital available on global markets. But with the potential impact of a future recession and the headwinds of an ageing population to come, there is a case for getting the US’s fiscal house in order and this inevitably will not help. Republicans have been right to highlight over many years how, at a first approximation, the US’s terrifying debt outlook is driven by rising entitlement spending caused by an ageing population.

But they may find it a bit harder to make the case for cutting future healthcare or pensions spending if they are seen to be blasé about the debt in relation to tax cuts today.


They should cut entitlement spending and other government spending.  The debt could quickly be brought to zero, and are tax money could be used for services instead of servicing the debt.

A plan to cut all spending by 1% across the board per year until the deficit was erased is a solid plan.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #69 
The Cato article warns of ignoring debt by expecting future spending cuts to cover the added debt of a tax cut.  In 2018, deficit may be $700-$800 Billion.  What in the world can we cut to offset that deficit?  Are Republicans planning on cutting SS in half?  That's what prompts the grandma off the cliff analogies.  Unreasonable suggestions that large deficits can be easily wiped out.
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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
The Cato article warns of ignoring debt by expecting future spending cuts to cover the added debt of a tax cut.  In 2018, deficit may be $700-$800 Billion.  What in the world can we cut to offset that deficit?  Are Republicans planning on cutting SS in half?  That's what prompts the grandma off the cliff analogies.  Unreasonable suggestions that large deficits can be easily wiped out.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Lost 1 - Don't ask me any questions on this subject as I know almost nothing about it.   
 

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #71 
Standard Dewey. Ask a question, one that he really has no desire to hear an answer for, buries it in a ramblings opinion piece.
When others reply to said question he moves the goal posts.
Same old carp for years

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#SCOTUS

Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #72 
Cutting 1% from the budget would likely take 15 years to reach a balanced budget.  Let's address what this actually means.

Suppose your SS is $2000/month and inflation is 1% per year.  This means in fifteen years your SS will be $2320/month.  If we elect to reduce 1% per year in Federal expenditures, in fifteen years your SS will be $1721/month.  This assumes there are no more people added to the SS roles who will need to tap into the fund.  Somebody better tell granny.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #73 
Looks like someone has already whispered in the ear of grandpa
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#SCOTUS

uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Cutting 1% from the budget would likely take 15 years to reach a balanced budget.  Let's address what this actually means.

Suppose your SS is $2000/month and inflation is 1% per year.  This means in fifteen years your SS will be $2320/month.  If we elect to reduce 1% per year in Federal expenditures, in fifteen years your SS will be $1721/month.  This assumes there are no more people added to the SS roles who will need to tap into the fund.  Somebody better tell granny.

Your math is a mess as usual.  If you get a 1% increase for inflation.  Then the 1% cut would effectively eliminate the inflation increase.   So you would get $2000. 

Anyway.  Another way to cut SS is to have people wait until 66 or 67 to get benefits.  With the average age jumping up the last few years, this makes great sense.

Another way is to tighten the SS disability rules back to something reasonable.  Now people can claim almost anything and they get SS disability.  They feel like sitting on the porch - SS Disability.  Saving SS Disability for those that are truly disabled.  

It cannot always be the taxpayer that has to take the hit.  

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #75 
If that is your formula, then in fifteen years the SS is still $2000 or about 85% of the buying power the individual once had.  What if inflation is higher than 1%?

Look at defense spending and assume 1% inflation.  A $600 defense budget today would need to be about $700 billion in fifteen years just to be as strong as we are today.  However, once we cut 1% per year, the budget will be just over $500 billion in fifteen years which makes us about 30% weaker.

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #76 
The 1% theory needs to be clarified.  If we spend $1 Trillion on SS in 2017, how much do we spend in 2018, 2019, and so on?  And what about the fact more people will be on SS?  Forget about changing ages and just explain the 1% theory.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
The 1% theory needs to be clarified.  If we spend $1 Trillion on SS in 2017, how much do we spend in 2018, 2019, and so on?  And what about the fact more people will be on SS?  Forget about changing ages and just explain the 1% theory.

It is simple math, unless you are dense.

Let's say 2017 is $1T (1 Trillion dollars).
Let's say the 2018 budget is projected to be $1.1T, the increase being because of more people, more costs, inflation, whatevers.  Well you take $1.1T - ($1.1T * 1%) 
1% of $1.1T is 11,000,000,000
So 2018 would be  $10,890 Billion dollars

Simple f'n percentages fam.  That liberal education has really failed you.  The fact that you can be that dumb and still vote is annoying.  Tell us again that story about how you run your own company and make loads of money. 

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #78 
Once you have a budget number, you figure out how to go meet that budget.  What changes are necessary, what those changes look like.  Just like you do at home. 
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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #79 
End of Clinton years we had a balanced budget.  Then tax cuts took away some revenue.  Then recession took away more revenue.  Then wars added spending.  Should we have raised revenue through taxes to pay for the war or was borrowing the wiser route?  Should we have reduced our Federal revenue with tax cuts?  Anyway, the balanced budget is far far back in our rear view mirror.

The division in Congress revolves around those who say lets cut SS recipients 1% of their real income per year and then give tax discounts to wealthy and middle class folks.  The solutions are somewhere else and they will be difficult to reach.

Btw, the politicians will simply change their projections to offset the cuts you propose.  They'll project an annual increase in defense spending of inflation plus maybe 2% to counter the reduction.  There are many problems with that theory.

In any event, it is agreed revenue growth must ultimately exceed spending growth or this debt never stops growing.  We were there once with a balanced budget, and with revenue climbing at a higher annual rate than spending, when wars and tax cuts stepped in to interfere.  What we need is Republicans to stop stifling Government revenue and agreeing to pay for goods and services ordered from today's tax base.  Unfortunately, it appears from various studies we have just reduced our payments for today's Government services and put that money on the kids CC.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #80 
Dewey - you always, and I mean always, omit the fact that Clinton worked with a GOP Congress that was equally responsible for that balanced budget.  That is why people know you are dishonest.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #81 
Clintons balanced budget was the outcome of Reagans massive economic growth and that was largely tied to tax cuts.  Clintons own welfare reform helped quite a bit as well. 

Yes politicians are free to later change the budgets and spending amounts.  That is what congress does, correct?

Taxes are regressive to the economy.  They keep it from growing.  An effective growing US economy creates a wave that raises all boats.   People get better jobs.  They make more money.  The get better opportunities.  They then invest in their children, in their healthcare, in their education. 



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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #82 
Dewey really has a problem with fact based history




Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) was the lone 'no' vote in Congress against the war in Afghanistan in 2001, voting against an authorization for use of military force (AUMF) shortly after the 9/11 attacks.


 In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.

Hours earlier, the House approved an identical resolution, 296-133.


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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #83 
The balanced budget was here at the end of the nineties and the GOP immediately shredded it with tax cuts and not paying for wars.  Now we're debating how to get back there.  Some of the answers are right in front of our face.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #84 
Obviously the Cato article was a reminder to the GOP to not just dismiss the added debt.  They pointed out how important the debt component will be when it comes to entitlement reform discussions.  Nowhere did they say the tax cuts would be completely offset by additional revenue.  I'm still curious why some other Conservative think tank didn't come out with an economic study saying there would be no added debt as a result of this tax bill.  It would have given the GOP something to hang their hat on.  Instead they're left all to their own to smack down all the other studies showing added debt. 
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #85 
At 2.9 percent growth rate there is no added debt.

Taxpayers should not always be the ones that have to take it in the arse.

Government is massively wasteful.  Cut spending to balance the budget.  The inefficiency of the government has long been proven. 

Let the layabouts get jobs if they want this or want that.  Work is good for them.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #86 
"At 2.9 percent growth rate there is no added debt."

This can't be something these GOP Senators heard on the radio.  They need a study they can point to which shows this bill will probably pay for itself.  Without one, their constituents will have a field day down the road when they see the debt climb.  Do you remember how angry the Right was when debt rose under President Bush?  There will be a repeat unless they have solid evidence explaining their vote.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeweyWillieHueyTurd
"At 2.9 percent growth rate there is no added debt."

This can't be something these GOP Senators heard on the radio.  They need a study they can point to which shows this bill will probably pay for itself.  Without one, their constituents will have a field day down the road when they see the debt climb.  Do you remember how angry the Right was when debt rose under President Bush?  There will be a repeat unless they have solid evidence explaining their vote.

Read the title of the thread dense one.  CBO score clearly stated that a 2.9 percent growth rate would result in zero additional debt. 

Now that the fed has raised their, historically, conservative GDP growth rate to 3.3 percent before the Tax Cut we will definitely be seeing better than that numbers.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Read the title of the thread dense one.  CBO score clearly stated that a 2.9 percent growth rate would result in zero additional debt. 

Now that the fed has raised their, historically, conservative GDP growth rate to 3.3 percent before the Tax Cut we will definitely be seeing better than that numbers.


Everybody knows that the bipartisan Joint Congressional Taxation committee says there will be 1 trillion in additional debt, allowing for projected growth. Everybody.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #89 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Everybody knows that the bipartisan Joint Congressional Taxation committee says there will be 1 trillion in additional debt, allowing for projected growth. Everybody.

nope.  CBO says 2.9% growth will be 0 additional debt.  That is how it works.  No growth, lots of debt.  Just ask odummer, he learned it the hard way.

BTW the Fed up their estimate to 4.0%.  So plenty of growth.

See a growing economy creates a wave that raises all the boats up.  Even a sh1tty shack of a boat with a hammock and confused f'er sitting out front.



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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #90 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Everybody knows that the bipartisan Joint Congressional Taxation committee says there will be 1 trillion in additional debt, allowing for projected growth. Everybody.


At 1.9% GDP.
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