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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #61 
Charlie - Yes to everything you said.  Power corrupts.  Check out the stalemate called our Congress.     Frank  
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Charlie - Yes to everything you said.  Power corrupts.  Check out the stalemate called our Congress.     Frank  


The major difference, of course, is that in the free enterprise system an upstart can topple the market leader. See AOL, MySpace, Blackberry, et al. This gives us hope that the ASA will be toppled by one of the upstarts.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #63 
Team Japan won the World Cup of Softball last week in OKC with an 18 year old straight out of high school on the mound to start the game and a 19 year old to finish it off.
No former Olympians played in the game for Japan. Half the players in the game were 19 or younger and played in Canada the week before in juniors. They won with a young relatively new team that day and without dominating pitching or Olympians.

Team USA will be fine and be on top again. They, like USA softball fans, need to stop looking at past glory and superstars and concentrate on this group getting it done. Monica Abbott is not walking thru that door to pitch for them. They have the talent to win championships......they just need the fire and dogged determination to get it done in crunch time when the going is tough.

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LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #64 
fhoenix,

I'm not sure what age has to do with it.  It's about having the best players available to represent our country. It would appear that Japan does this, but the USA doesn't.  I don't think I'm looking at the glory days when I can look at a game in New Jersey and see better American players than are in Canada.



evenflow

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix
Team Japan won the World Cup of Softball last week in OKC with an 18 year old straight out of high school on the mound to start the game and a 19 year old to finish it off.
No former Olympians played in the game for Japan. Half the players in the game were 19 or younger and played in Canada the week before in juniors. They won with a young relatively new team that day and without dominating pitching or Olympians.

Team USA will be fine and be on top again. They, like USA softball fans, need to stop looking at past glory and superstars and concentrate on this group getting it done. Monica Abbott is not walking thru that door to pitch for them. They have the talent to win championships......they just need the fire and dogged determination to get it done in crunch time when the going is tough.


what you're saying is.. Japan beat the best of what we have available with a team of 18-19 year olds..
that doesn't sound promising for team USA
And the Aussies deliver the knock-out punch in Canada..
USA with the bronze
all4AU

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by evenflow
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix
Team Japan won the World Cup of Softball last week in OKC with an 18 year old straight out of high school on the mound to start the game and a 19 year old to finish it off.
No former Olympians played in the game for Japan. Half the players in the game were 19 or younger and played in Canada the week before in juniors. They won with a young relatively new team that day and without dominating pitching or Olympians.

Team USA will be fine and be on top again. They, like USA softball fans, need to stop looking at past glory and superstars and concentrate on this group getting it done. Monica Abbott is not walking thru that door to pitch for them. They have the talent to win championships......they just need the fire and dogged determination to get it done in crunch time when the going is tough.


what you're saying is.. Japan beat the best of what we have available with a team of 18-19 year olds..
that doesn't sound promising for team USA
And the Aussies deliver the knock-out punch in Canada..
USA with the bronze


Huge upset for the Aussies. When USA tied it at 1 in the 7th, I thought they'd win eventually. Also, when Australia failed to score more than 1 in the 8th, I also thought it wouldn't be enough. USA outhit Australia 11 to 7. It was an all around GREAT game to watch.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #67 
11 hits and 1 run for Team USA against Australia.  USA eliminated 2-1 in 8 innings. USA left runners on base at second and third in bottom 8.   Too many LOB throughout the game. USA takes Bronze (haven't heard that for a while).  Congratulations to Australia who are now guaranteed of at least a silver as they face Japan in the gold medal game.  USA is left to mull over the experience.  
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
UGASBFan

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Reply with quote  #68 
Did Parnaby pitch for Australia? Being American, I obviously do not want to root against them in any way, but I was always a fan of Parnaby while at Hawaii. Great athlete.
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #69 
Exactly........Team USA lost to teenagers in gold medal game on the mound.

And the panic button was just pushed.....Australia was up 1-0 going into bottom of 7th when Gibson and chamberlaion got on and USA got 1 run to tie it.
Australia scored 1 run in top of 8th (and could have scored more) and USA gets 2 runners on and all the way to 2nd and 3rd when pinch hitter Raven Chavonne pops up to short stop to end it.
Australia wins 2-1 in 8 innings.
Australia beats Team USA for first time since 2000.

Australia was tied with USA going into 8th inning in round robin play on Thursday. Australia scored 2 runs in top of 8th to take lead. USA scored 3 runs in bottom of 8th for the win......so it wasn't like Australia wasn't close to beating team usa before.

Team USA's luck and confidence wnt downhill when Ricketts was sent packing.

Look at the glass half full (as the Surrey paper noted before Canadian Open) USA losing in OKC helped softball chances to get in Olympics. The Canadians writers and the people replying to the article agreed that USA dominating and spanking everyone and winning in OKC would have sealed the deal on no softball in 2020. Japan winning lit the candle of hope. Japan winning without Ueno in championship vs USA lit the torch. JApan beating USA in Canada lit up the dugout. Australia beating team usa lit up the sadium. The world sees it has a chance if it can get good pitching for a game. The USA learned that crushing people in round robin play is not the goal---winning in crunch time when the going is tough. Adversity does not build character---it reveals it.

Still love me some team USA and will go out and get the granddaughter a jersey.Told her team needs your support more when they lose than when they win. Lots of people are around to celebrate with you when you win but people disappear when you lose so we will support them nomatter what. And....as a international softball fan I will catch the final online too between Japan and Australia. An upset win by Australia would be HUGE. More than kangaroos would be jumping in Australia if they won and it would be a huge deal for their program and their country who is not used to seeing softball gold and haven't sniffed championship in any event since 90s. ::waving my tiny Australian flag for their game against japan:::

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #70 
Parnaby, our gal from U of Hawaii, pitched and was pulled after she gave up a hit and then hit the next batter.
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LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
11 hits and 1 run for Team USA against Australia.  USA eliminated 2-1 in 8 innings. USA left runners on base at second and third in bottom 8.   Too many LOB throughout the game. USA takes Bronze (haven't heard that for a while).  Congratulations to Australia who are now guaranteed of at least a silver as they face Japan in the gold medal game.  USA is left to mull over the experience.  


Unfortunately I didn't see the game.  But a game where there are a lot of hits and few runs smells of a game where the slappers were doing the hitting.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #72 
Charlie - Good observation, but in this case not true.  Hits were spread all over the lineup. RBIs weren't.  Hits to drive in runs were not.  Even in bottom 8, trailing 2-1, USA had runners at second and third with one out, and Moultrie and Chavonne (two fine hitters) coming up. Only situation better would have been Gibson and Chidester.   No runs produced.  Mama said there'd be days like this !!!!      
Frank

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #73 

8 players had a hit of the 12 the usa sent to the plate.
Gibson, chamberlains and taylor had 2 hit each.  Gibson and chamberlain were 3 and 4 in lineup and chamberlain had the lone RBI. Taylor batted 9th. Pop ups and stike out with runners in scoring position and the hit into the double play with bases loaded (1-8-3) then a strike out.

 I am not going to make more of the game than it was since these same two team went 8 innings 4 days ago and USA needed 3 runs in botton of 8th to win.
Australia was due and found a way to win. For the 3rd time this week they were ahead of the americans to close it out.....this time they did.


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SECsoftballDad

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Reply with quote  #74 
It's clear the best talent is in the NPF.

Chicago Bandits and USSSA Pride could both have won both the World Cup and the Canada Cup with ease.

Would you rather have Chavanne and Moultrie...?

Or Wiggins and Watley?

Nevins and Hawkins...?

Or Cat and Abbot?

Ziegenhirt, Gibson, and Chidester...?

Or Sandberg, Goler, and Marder?

...lol Team USA is a JOKE! Definitely nepotism at its finest.

Ken Erikson is a bigger joke!




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LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #75 
The USA team has a lot in common with Blackberry: Once the feared leader, now a distant third.



JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #76 
SEC Dad -  Vicious !!  Unnecessarily so.  Shame on you.  Yet, you are entitled. The Team USA is a joke, the coach is an even bigger joke, and you are what?     Frank
PS - Please read Teddy Roosevelt's "The Man in the Arena" (google it - it's a short read).  It carries an important message for "fans".

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #77 
Charlie - And you take great glee from that?  Kick em when they are down?  I have difficulty understanding the attitude.  Don't they represent you and your nation?   No empathy?    Frank
PS - I too am disappointed, but feel no need to disparage them in any way.  Yes, players from the pro league would have made up a more competitive team, but that obviously wasn't possible.  I do think that the kids on Team USA did not lose because of a lack of effort or effective coaching.  I think they represented us as well as they could given selection conditions.  There are lazy losses and learning losses.  I do hope that today's loss to Australia was a learning loss.  Bronze to me just doesn't go well with USA.  I too am spoiled by past successes. 

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #78 
Most die hard Team USA fans will yell and scream about it yet accept losing to Team Japan since the 2008 Olympic team lost to Ueno pitching too. Take a shot of wiskey, a punch in the gut and swallow Team USA losing to Japan.........BUT losing to team Australia for first time in 13 years will be hard to swallow and nothing will wash that taste away for many fans. Hard to forget once it is in your head like the theme from rocky, the final jeopardy theme, or the Macarena.

I take the kick in the groin and move on. It happened. The stars of the past are not coming back and USA softball will succeed or fail on the arms and bats of these kids.
I support them win or lose. I love the international game not just Team USA dominating. It is not fair to just be there when they win. The team needs us now when they are down not just when they are winning and we celebrate with them.

If softball is at 2020 Olympics it is because of these past 12 days.

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bamanetny

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECsoftballDad
It's clear the best talent is in the NPF.

Chicago Bandits and USSSA Pride could both have won both the World Cup and the Canada Cup with ease.

Would you rather have Chavanne and Moultrie...?

Or Wiggins and Watley?

Nevins and Hawkins...?

Or Cat and Abbot?

Ziegenhirt, Gibson, and Chidester...?

Or Sandberg, Goler, and Marder?

...lol Team USA is a JOKE! Definitely nepotism at its finest.

Ken Erikson is a bigger joke!





Say what you want about the others, but Lauren Gibson deserves to be on Team USA regardless of whether or not you include players from the NPF. She has been outstanding this summer and I'm not just some homer Tennessee fan saying this either. There is a reason she was SEC player of the year.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #80 
fhoenix - Oh boy, do I agree with what you just wrote - and I identify especially with that Macarena. Can't you just hear that beat with LOB?   I absolutely can identify with fans who are disappointed, and especially with the loss to Australia as you point out.  Still, I don't think venting nasty anger and making fun or lashing out toward the team is an acceptable way to demonstrate disappointment.    Frank 
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #81 
0-0 score with Australia batting in the bottom of the 7th.
2 hitter for Ueno and Stokes was lifted for parnaby to start 5th and she has given up 1 hit in 3 innings of work.

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #82 
Japan scores 2 in top of 8th inning to go up 2-0.....Australia batting in bottom of 8th.
porter is intentionally walked. Now with 2 on and 2 outs. Strike out to end game.
Ueno gets the win. 8 innings pitched, 2 hits, 10 k's, 1 bb (had another k but it was dropped and runner got on)

Ueno did not pitch in round robin. Pitched all 4 tourney games and was 4-0, gave up 4 total hits, 38 strike outs, 3 walks, and 2 no-hitters and ZERO runs scored on her.
Japan scored 21 runs and gave up 0 in the 4 tourney round games.....after getting run rules twice in round robin and going 1-6. they turned it up a notch when it counted. Congrats to them and congrats to team Australia who played back to back 8 inning games on Monday against USA and Japan and were a hit away in bottom of 7th from winning it all.

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all4AU

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Reply with quote  #83 
I know it's been ages since Australia last beat Team USA, but I think Australia should be cut some slack here. They've played some close games and some not-so-close games with USA over the years, and today they finally closed one out. 

After 2008, Australia (like many other teams) had many players retire. Australia in fact had some ANCIENT players retire. They had a LOT of rebuilding to do after 2008, but their efforts are finally starting to pay off. Porter and Bowering are the only two remaining Olympians on the Aussie squad. Stokes and Parnaby have proved they can go toe-to-toe with anyone currently in the international game (except for Ueno, and they even hung with her for 7 innings tonight). 

The team that beat USA tonight is essentially the same team that took bronze at Worlds last year. These girls have been together and had more time to develop chemistry than the current USA squad. Like it or not, this loss was better for the game of International Softball.

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AdolfLed

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Reply with quote  #84 
Query:

Ueno pitches in the Japan Pro Softball League and so does Monica. 

Why can't USA Softball get Monica to pitch for the USA? or Cat ? 

What's the politics in USA softball, ASA and NPF? The Ricketts fiasco stinks. The USA problem is with the ASA officials' egos.



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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #85 

** From Sunday...Ueno's 31st birthday...A canadian view***

METRO VANCOUVER - Japan was coming off winning the title at the women’s softball World Cup in Oklahoma earlier this month where it beat the powerful Americans twice. And the Japanese are the reigning world champions, after winning that title in 2012 in Whitehorse.

So when the visitors from Asia went just 1-4 in the round-robin at the Canadian Open Fastpitch last week, giving up a stunning 32 runs in those five games, there were a lot of quizzical looks in the stands at Softball City in South Surrey.

Order was restored on the weekend, however, thanks to Yukiko Ueno.

The game’s most dominant pitcher, who sat and watched as a succession of young Japanese pitchers got their shot, threw back-to-back no hitters on Saturday – 7-0 in five innings over the California A’s and 7-0 in six innings over Australia.

On Sunday, she allowed just two hits and struck out 10 as Japan beat the U.S. 5-0 in a semifinal during the double knockout playoff round.

Ueno, who turns 31 today, is a national hero in Japan, plays for a company team in the Japanese pro league and stars in television commercials.

She cemented her superstar status at the Beijing Olympics in 2008 when, over two days, the rubber-armed chucker threw a stunning 413 pitches in 28 innings over three games as Japan upset the U.S. for the gold medal.

Ueno throws as hard as anyone – 75 miles an hour – but also has an amazing repertoire that includes riseballs, screwballs, dropballs and changeups.

Canadian outfielder Caitlin Lever, a veteran of seven years in the international game, says six-foot-two Americans Cat Osterman and Monica Abbott, past stars of the U.S. national team, might have had the best spin and speed, respectively.

“But Ueno has got both, she’s got speed and spin. And she can basically be her own reliever. She can be a fastball-riseball pitcher early, then in later innings she can become a drop ball pitcher.”

Lever says she’s not surprised Ueno is still going strong.

“I think she’s cryogenically frozen each year and then they just bring her out when they need her. She’s got the full package.”

Ueno threw twice at the World Cup, going seven innings and allowing nine hits and two runs in a 3-2 win over Australia and then allowing four runs on eight hits in a 7-4 round-robin victory over the U.S. She didn’t pitch in the gold medal final, in which Japan beat the U.S. 6-3.

“I heard she had a blister on her hand down there,” said Lever.

Given the no-hitters over California and Australia, it appears she’s over that little problem.

*Canada, which beat Venezuela 9-4 and lost to the U.S. 7-4 on Saturday, stayed alive in the playoff round Sunday afternoon with a dramatic 1-0 victory over the California A’s.

The game was scoreless – a pitcher’s duel between Canada’s Jenna Caira and California’s Paige Parker, a highly-regarded freshman-to-be at Oklahoma in the fall – until Jenny Gilbert belted a towering home run to right field in the top of the sixth.

Gilbert, who was born in Saskatoon but grew up in Texas and attends Ball State University in Indiana, said she “kind of guessed right,” getting a rise ball that didn’t break.

Caira, who might just have the best pull-the-string changeup in the game, kept the A’s, a collection of top college and graduated players from around the U.S., guessing all game. She allowed just three three singles and struck out 10, including the final two California batters in the bottom of the seventh with a runner on second.

Canada faced Australia in the late game Sunday, with the loser eliminated.



Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Victoria+Hayward+hopes+help+Canada+climb+champion+ladder/8685188/story.html#ixzz2ZqydU3Lt

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LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Charlie - And you take great glee from that?  Kick em when they are down?  I have difficulty understanding the attitude.  Don't they represent you and your nation?   No empathy?    Frank
 


Frank,

I made a statement of fact with no emotion whatsoever in it.  I don't believe I showed any attitude whatsoever.  I don't understand how you can leap the cavern and believe that I was presenting you with glee or kicking them when they are down.   For an English teacher sometimes you read into words things that aren't there.
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #87 
I think it's become abundantly clear that neither or nation nor the top players really care about a national team if there's no Olympics at the end of the tunnel.  If there softball were to be included in the 2016 team you can bet we'd have seen different personnel and probably a different head coach on this national softball team. 

Without the incentive of the Olympics the real players go their separate ways and the door opens up for the second tier players.  Unfortunately, from the attitude of the tweets from the players on this national team that I saw these players really thought they were something.






JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #88 
LMUFan - I am both an English teacher and a teacher of English.     At least I was 25 years ago.  If I am reading into your attitude, I believe the last paragraph in your last post explains why.  By the way, I was not privy to those posts, or maybe I would have a 'tude also.  Doubt it, but one never knows.  I completely agree that with the loss of the emotions tied to the Olympics, fewer folks have a deep emotional tie to fastpitch.  I think it's very much a collegiate game now.     Frank

PS - Check the background of the current USA coach with the Olympics and national teams, both as an assistant and as a head coach - absolutely qualified and devoted to USA international ball.  So much time and effort just like assistants Mike White and Bergey, but an easy "blame" mark with "only" a bronze to show for it this time around !!!  I have been around athletics most of my life and understand that everybody loves a winner, especially if they can skim some vicarious glory from the winner.  "Loser" is not a good word in the minds of we Americans.

I remember an incident from my pitching days when the world was young.  A little Hispanic boy came up to me before a game and asked for my autograph on some sort of matches cover.  He said, "Frangie, you are a super pitcher, man".  In the sixth inning, I gave up a base hit, and I heard that same voice shouting out, "Frangie, you stinga".  So it goes sometimes.  My gunny in the service told me, "That's the problem with being out front - everybody is shooting at you".  

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
ucs2010

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Reply with quote  #89 
To quote Jerry Maquire: "Show me the money"
The best players (in any sport) have always and will always play wherever they get paid(salary, bonus, endorsement and commercial opportunities) the most.
For US women's fastpitch between 1996 and 2008, the best gig was Team USA, because of the money the team received from the US Olympic Committee and the commercial endorsement opportunities (most from fast pitch equipment manufacturers, who target young girls many who aspire to play college softball)
Today, the best (gaijin) players are playing in the Japanese pro league. Some of these players also play NPF, which conveniently schedules its season between the end of the first and second halves of the Japanese season.

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #90 
ucs2010 - Jerry knew some stuff !!!      Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
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