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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #61 
Gangsta O is a racketeering scourge.
Progs are unrepentant baby killers.

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B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #62 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/obama-apple-google-facebook-tainted-prism

Good take by Guardian


What the president needs to do,imo is to have a conversation with the American people about all that has been going on & level with them. He would have to tell them, that many of the things that he was critical of President Bush for during his run for office, he now finds out are needed to keep us safe.
In order for him to have this conversation, he will have to put his ego behind him & tell it like it is. I'd start with Benghazi & go right on down the list. If he continues to act like all these things are no big problem or that he had nothing to do with them, all or some will come back to bite him.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #63 
The problem with Obama coming clean now is that he is too vested in the lies he has been foisting on America and the world. No one would ever trust him again (except for you know who) and rightfully so.

It's like if your wife cheated on you, you might be able to patch things up but there would always be some residual mistrust. Her behavior would have to be above reproach.

Obama would never subject himself to that scrutiny or those standards, so bloated is his ego. Nor would he be capable of honesty to that degree. He's a thug politician, it's in his bones, and he can't change his spots.

Better to just get rid if him ASAP and start fresh. Obama is damaged goods.

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GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #64 
Dewey, Bush through the NSA only tracked phone calls made to and received from countries like Yemen, Libya, and other know terrorist countries. That is a far cry from Obama tracking litterally every call I make to my grandmother.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Bush tracked calls and gathered information to target terrorist, Obama tracks calls and gathers information to target political enemies.

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #65 
The main business of the Obama administration is racketeering.

Did Google, Apple, Yahoo, et al get tax breaks to cooperate with PRISM?

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #66 
"This administration acts like violating our civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not." - Obama in 2007

Flip flop much?

Obama. A man with no principles.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #67 
Obama - a man with principles that disagree with blue's principles.  Fair enough but really quite irrelevant.  Can one man, even a powerful one by right of office, apologize for or control  the corruption and mismanagement of an entire government?  Did George W. Bush apologize for the agenda he forwarded in terms of wealth redistribution and Hawkish foreign policy which succeeded in dividing two sovereign nations but gave Haliburton and subsidiaries the opportunity to make a huge buck in the cleanup?  Now that financial agenda fit in well with Congress's real "Mission Accomplished".  One certainly cannot say the same about today's issues like Obamacare or hateful Party warfare and the wall that exists between Congress and the Executive branch.  "Mr. Mitchell, tear down that wall".   LOL  It's the system, folks.  

 
Washington and its "good ol boy" power elite cuts up elected officials and spits them out like cherry seeds.  Idealism is not accepted there and economic pragmatism prevails.  That limits the responses of even the most powerful neophytes theoretically unless they too are part of the base that creates the very corruption that is our current $ystem, electoral and governmental. I almost, but not quite, feel sorry for those politicians who are caught in the power principles of Washington's meat grinder.   Frank

PS - When I was a young child, we swam in a sewer outlet that we called BAB (bare ass beach), and our biggest concern was eluding the "brown fish".  Politicians in Washington must feel that way - and they wear fancy suits while they are swimming for survival.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
The problem with Obama coming clean now is that he is too vested in the lies he has been foisting on America and the world. 


There are no lies being told by President Obama.  These handful of folks inside here and your Right leaning TV and radio pundits can say it 10,000 times and it still won't be true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyFan
Dewey, Bush through the NSA only tracked phone calls made to and received from countries like Yemen, Libya, and other know terrorist countries. That is a far cry from Obama tracking litterally every call I make to my grandmother.
You are comparing apples and oranges.


Grizzly - Nope, you are comparing apples and oranges.  Candidate Obama objected to President Bush listening to your phone calls without any court approval.  President Obama is not listening in to your phone calls.  The NSA program is collecting "data" to be used to track terrorism should it be necessary.  President Obama went to the court for approval and provided the information to both Houses of Congress.  Whether you are for or against collecting data in this manner, all branches of Government know it's happening and the Court approved it.  There is no lie unless you think classified information is akin to lying.  The President has the support of many Republicans with regards to this program aimed at keeping all of us safe.  That won't stop some from using it to attack him politically.

Our readers can make up their own minds but it's important to know the President is still against unapproved listening in to your phone calls.  He remains against surveillance without court approval.  Know the facts before you judge this President and this NSA program then draw your own conclusions. 
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #69 

We only know what we are told.
We do not know all that any past, present, or future president was tracking unless it is brought to our attention.

This topic did not exist until days ago when british press leaked the story (because they were looking into their calls being monitored by their own government).

This is like a novel or movie plot. Country/planet under attack so government steps in to protect but at the expense of civil liberties and rights. People were ok with it but don't see that government slowly steps on more rights and liberties in the name of national security. Ever since 9/11.

I said this to my daughters, grandkid, and members of my BBS and forums when I ran them many years ago---Anything you state electronically is archived and monitored and you will be held accountable. Anything you say on the phone, xbox live, internet, forums, facebook, myspace, commenting on topics on websites, etc. is monitored. Your credit card activity, tv watching habits, internet activities, email activity, phone call usage, banking, etc. is monitored. If you are "on the grid" you are monitored.
This didn't just begin....it has been going on strong for past 12 years and nomatter who was elected in 2008 and 2012 it would have continued.
Terrorist acts (including domestic--school shootings, theatre shootings, etc) give the government the emotional leverage and excuse to monitor, search, and regulate more. From privacy to travel to guns.


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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
The problem with Obama coming clean now is that he is too vested in the lies he has been foisting on America and the world. 


There are no lies being told by President Obama.  These handful of folks inside here and your Right leaning TV and radio pundits can say it 10,000 times and it still won't be true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyFan
Dewey, Bush through the NSA only tracked phone calls made to and received from countries like Yemen, Libya, and other know terrorist countries. That is a far cry from Obama tracking litterally every call I make to my grandmother.
You are comparing apples and oranges.


Grizzly - Nope, you are comparing apples and oranges.  Candidate Obama objected to President Bush listening to your phone calls without any court approval.  President Obama is not listening in to your phone calls.  The NSA program is collecting "data" to be used to track terrorism should it be necessary.  President Obama went to the court for approval and provided the information to both Houses of Congress.  Whether you are for or against collecting data in this manner, all branches of Government know it's happening and the Court approved it.  There is no lie unless you think classified information is akin to lying.  The President has the support of many Republicans with regards to this program aimed at keeping all of us safe.  That won't stop some from using it to attack him politically.

Our readers can make up their own minds but it's important to know the President is still against unapproved listening in to your phone calls.  He remains against surveillance without court approval.  Know the facts before you judge this President and this NSA program then draw your own conclusions. 


Obama: "Everyone in Congress was fully briefed."

Congress: "Uh, no."

Yes, our readers can make up thir own minds, and there aren't very many who believe Obama.

And it's obvious that he believes very strongly in using court approved surveillance -TO SPY ON EVERY AMERICAN!

Stalin is in the White House. His government is out of control.


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B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
The problem with Obama coming clean now is that he is too vested in the lies he has been foisting on America and the world. 


There are no lies being told by President Obama.  These handful of folks inside here and your Right leaning TV and radio pundits can say it 10,000 times and it still won't be true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyFan
Dewey, Bush through the NSA only tracked phone calls made to and received from countries like Yemen, Libya, and other know terrorist countries. That is a far cry from Obama tracking litterally every call I make to my grandmother.
You are comparing apples and oranges.


Grizzly - Nope, you are comparing apples and oranges.  Candidate Obama objected to President Bush listening to your phone calls without any court approval.  President Obama is not listening in to your phone calls.  The NSA program is collecting "data" to be used to track terrorism should it be necessary.  President Obama went to the court for approval and provided the information to both Houses of Congress.  Whether you are for or against collecting data in this manner, all branches of Government know it's happening and the Court approved it.  There is no lie unless you think classified information is akin to lying.  The President has the support of many Republicans with regards to this program aimed at keeping all of us safe.  That won't stop some from using it to attack him politically.

Our readers can make up their own minds but it's important to know the President is still against unapproved listening in to your phone calls.  He remains against surveillance without court approval.  Know the facts before you judge this President and this NSA program then draw your own conclusions. 
It is all about context, context, context, you say there are no lies by the president & you could be right.
If that's the case why doesn't he go before the country & say what really happened with fast & furious [ not even the parents of the dead border agent know ] & why have those involved just been transferred or retired? What really happened in Benghazi? Where was the president ? Where was Hillary ? Who changed the talking points [ ordered it done & why ], Who told the IRS agents to treat right wing groups like they did? I don't think it came from the president, but it sure a heck didn't come from some low level employee. Level with the people on Rosen, he sure as heck wasn't be investigated for the leak they say [ if no big deal, spill it ], NSA actions & its expansion of Bush policy, why not admit that Bush was right & he was wrong? Is that so hard? Why is the war on terror over [ speech last week ] & expansion of tracking American's every move needed to fight the war on terror [this week]? Why is the killer of those at ft. Hood still considered work place violence & not a terrorist [ we ALL know what he is ].
I'm sure none of this bothers YOU, but it does bother many & in context of all this, you are asking us Mr. President & Mr Reid, to " Just relax " nobody is listening in on your phone call.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #72 
Re court approved, they had to go to three judges before they found one who allowed them to spy on Rosen.

Some court approval - just keep asking judges until you find one that agrees, or caves in to your pressure.

The admin is in court now trying to block the release of documents that show some Patriot Act searches were disallowed. Again, they simply went to other judges until they got what they wanted.

All "court-approved" means is that they could find a judge that would bend to their will. That's ethical to these thugs.

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B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Obama -   

  
Washington and its "good ol boy" power elite cuts up elected officials and spits them out like cherry seeds.  

.
JG- watch that reference to cherry seeds [ pits ], you know that that's my livelihood, don't want them to have any connection with politicians...cherries are GOOD for you.

All you on UCS, be watching for Cherries from the NORTHWEST, will be arriving in your stores in next couple weeks......better than those California cherries
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #74 
FIB - You are getting all mixed up. You're confusing court approval for DOJ subpoenas with FISA court approval for national security issues. I'd fully explain the distinction but it's too hard to do on my phone while I'm at my granddaughter's All Star game. Maybe later.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #75 
T - I thought you were apples.  F
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #76 
yeah dewey, don't forget to check in from your DGD's all-star game between innings.  obama needs you now more than ever
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
yeah dewey, don't forget to check in from your DGD's all-star game between innings.  obama needs you now more than ever


LMAO!

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #78 
Dewey- let me save you the time. I may be confused with so many scandals going on, but if it was a critical point I would have looked it up. The fact is they're trying to suppress a court ruling related to one of the scandals. That alone is a red flag for me. Besides, it would probably be a long reply, and I don't often read your long posts - like the scandals, they tend to blur. Besides I already read most of the talking points so pretty much know your response before you type it - kind of like the NSA under O'Stalin.
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B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
FIB - You are getting all mixed up. You're confusing court approval for DOJ subpoenas with FISA court approval for national security issues. I'd fully explain the distinction but it's too hard to do on my phone while I'm at my granddaughter's All Star game. Maybe later.
When I go to my grandkids games, no cell phone at all....I got bigger fish to fry [ like watching the game ]. I was at a granddaughters soccer game a while back & they had a nice sideline crowd of 40-50 parents, grandparents & as I watched them I saw maybe 30 of them that could not help scrolling up & down their phones, while giving an occasional watch at game. Kind of sad in one respect.
Of course that was before they knew that the WH was watching their every word.

I say, put the phone on vibrate & in your pocket or better yet turn off & put in your man bag. Watch your grandkid & her team play, your distractors will wait.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
T - I thought you were apples.  F
No, no, Cherries from the Northwest. Maybe the best fruit for your health that you can eat. If you like Cherries, buy a few pounds in August, before they disappear from the shelves & freeze them. Rinse off, put in a baggie & enjoy for 3-6 months.

Publix out by you is one of our best cherry accounts [ wish it was my account] & can get some good cherries there.
Sorry guys for getting off the subject, don't let it throw you off point.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #81 
JG the sad thing is Obama has given more tax money than Bush ever dreamt of to his corporate cronies and you act like he hasnt.  Plus hes given a ton of cash to alot of union cronies etc....  Obama has blown Bush out of the water when it comes to cronyism with the trillions he spent!  Blame Bush is the best thing you guys have still.  Pretty sad what your Chicago thug is turning America into!  I dont think the man knows how to be honest.
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Susan
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #82 
Susan - "you act like he hasn't".  To the best of my knowledge that is a comparison that I've never made. probably because I'm ignorant of the data.  When you begin your rants with "you libs" or "you act like" I'm afraid that I don't pay any attention to the rest where you scratch your itch.  You  see, once again, you attack Obama, and I attack the system.  Therein lie our differences and samenesses of perspective.   Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #83 
T - If you had gone to that Publix (where my wife shops and which is ten minutes from my house and where my wife just purchased cherries) you might have purchased a PowerBall ticket which paid $590 million dollars.  The interesting story there is that an 84 year old local woman was in a hurry, so a young woman allowed her to get in line ahead of her to purchase a Powerball ticket.  That 84 year old woman won the $590 million Powerball - no good deed will remain unpunished !!!      LOL       Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
mikec

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Reply with quote  #84 
The sheer breadth of this data gathering is breathtaking. Live monitoring of chats? Reading emails in real time? Intercepting Internet searches?

Wow, this is incredible. I have a hard time understanding how any American is not outraged. This is not what this country was founded on.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
Wow, this is incredible. I have a hard time understanding how any American is not outraged. This is not what this country was founded on.


mikec - If we intercepted a nuclear dirty bomb or prevented any nuclear device from destroying a city, neighborhood, or similar, would you still feel the same way?  Sen. Chambliss said every Senator has known of these various surveillance programs since day one.  Under Obama, the courts have been used for authorization.

Sen. Feinstein says, “There have been approximately 100 plots and also arrests made since 2009 by the FBI.”  

Does this carry any weight in making your decision?  All three branches of Government are well informed of our national security surveillance programs.  In any event, I'm sure this will spark more national debate over how far we want our Representatives to go to protect us.

Finally, there have been some emails mistakenly intercepted and officials had to go to the national security court and data was destroyed.  It's a tough call in a world of terrorism but at least the President, Senate, House, and Courts are all working together in reviewing these programs.  Undoubtedly, many citizens will still object.  It's certainly not as easy a decision as you make it out to be. 


spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
every Senator has known of these various surveillance programs since day one.>

We know this to be a lie but don't let it stop you from repeating it.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Sen. Chambliss said every Senator has known of these various surveillance programs since day one.>
We know this to be a lie but don't let it stop you from repeating it.


The leaders of the Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday said senators were informed of the administration’s sweeping surveillance practices, which they said have been going on since 2007.

“Everyone’s been aware of it for years, every member of the Senate,” said Sen. Saxby Chambliss (Ga.), the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

spazsdad - I don't mind you disagreeing with me but why in the world won't you give me a link or something to substantiate your claim?  I'm just going by what I read.  Do you have something else I should look at?  I try hard not to just show up here and post crazy things and ask people to just believe them.  Point me in the right direction if I have this wrong.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #88 
spazsdad - You're not really going to leave it there are you?  I quoted Chambliss who said all Senators had been informed.  You say I'm posting a lie.  Do you know a Senator who is denying having the information?  You're too responsible of a poster to accuse me of promoting a lie without giving some evidence to the contrary.  Please.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #89 
Here from Maddow on MSNBC:

Tonight on our show, Senator Jeff Merkley (D-Oregon) took issue with that characterization:

Certainly what the president said today stretched several things. He said that Congress had approved this program. Well, if Congress approves something with very specific standards, and those standards were secretly eviscerated -- the guts were torn out of them so they were meaningless -- then Congress really hasn't approved the program at all. And so I disagree with the president on that.

And when he said that members have been briefed, well, I was one of, I think, the few who sought a briefing on the cell phone side, because of what I'd heard in the public press, but I don't think many others outside of the intelligence committee got that briefing, so if the President believes that a hundred members of the Congress knew the details of that program under Section 215 [of the Patriot Act], I think he's wrong. I think very few outside of the Intelligence Committee, and in terms of the Prism program, which I think very few had ever heard of -- I certainly never heard of it -- I doubt that more than the Intelligence Committee would have known about that.


http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/07/18835480-senator-merkley-certainly-what-the-president-said-today-stretched-several-things?lite


Apparently Chambliss doesn't know what he's talking about either.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #90 
FIB - Thanks, I now see the differences in the two Senators stories.  Sen. Merkley says he wasn't "fully" briefed on the extent of surveillance.  In other words, he did know about surveillance but took no action to make himself fully aware of what the surveillance included.  I imagine you could say that about many Senators who probably didn't take the time to fully understand what the NSA was doing.  But they could have learned all they wanted had they taken appropriate steps.  To me, this sounds like Sen. Chambliss is telling the truth that all Senators were briefed as to an NSA surveillance program and some sought out more details while others did not.  I guess we can debate which Senator is telling the truth but doubt we could ever fully know.

Edit:  You know you're really stretching things when you have to tell the readers a "Republican" Senator is now lying in order to convince them President Obama is doing something inappropriate.  You have no bounds.  In any event, if Sen. Chambliss tells the President he has briefed every Senator and Obama repeats this fact in a speech, who's to blame if it turns out to be untrue?
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