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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #151 

Name the number of terrorist attacks that were assessed, responded, managed and yielded documentable results in stemming such atrocities subjected on the American people.

1) Zero
2) Nil
3) None
4) All of the above


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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #152 
Bill - If I understand what you are saying, do you accept any of these?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #153 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Bill - If I understand what you are saying, do you accept any of these?


Are any of those attributed to PRISM?

Because no one is making claims like that now.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #154 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Bill - If I understand what you are saying, do you accept any of these?
Bill, read Key points on right of Dewey's link & what Obama did his first 1 1/2 years until he realized how wrong he was a how right Bush was. While a senator Obama tore into the Patriot act & espionage act of 1917, now he has expanded the Patriot act & used the espionage act to go after FNCs Rosen.
Myself, I think it is all going to far & I go with this quote from Ben Franklin, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety ".
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #155 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith

Name the number of terrorist attacks that were assessed, responded, managed and yielded documentable results in stemming such atrocities subjected on the American people.

1) Zero
2) Nil
3) None
4) All of the above



Four Bill! My answer is 4!! All of the above! Zero, Nil, None.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #156 
B10 - What would Ben say about pat downs at the airport?   (Please don't say you don't have to fly because one could easily say you don't have to call folks on a phone).

FIB - Rep. Rogers said the plot to attack NY subway in 2009 was foiled in part due to PRISM.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #157 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
B10 - What would Ben say about pat downs at the airport?   (Please don't say you don't have to fly because one could easily say you don't have to call folks on a phone).

FIB - Rep. Rogers said the plot to attack NY subway in 2009 was foiled in part due to PRISM.
Having spent some time with Ben, I would guess that he would lean to more profiling. He did like being padded down, but not by the likes of airport security. He didn't say much about cell phones when I talked to him last, did have a lot to say about Obama, but I promised him, that I wouldn't repeat.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #158 
I already posted a story on that claim by Rogers.

So all you have is one, that didn't result from PRISM, yet there are two - Boston and Ft. hood - that they missed entirely.

That's the kind of bang for our buck we're getting from Obama.

And folks, does anyone else find it hilarious that Dewey linked to a Heritage article ( from 2010 no less) ? Apparently to justify Obama's massive totalitarian ramping up of a state security apparatus to satisfy his hideous infatuation with spying on the people he was elected to govern. Kiss liberty good bye.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #159 
The ACLU has filed a suit with the FISA court to declassify its interpretation of Section 215 of the Patriot Act, citing Obama's willingness to have a discussion on government surveillance.

It seems right that Obama shoud join in this request, to facilitate the discussion he wants to have with the American people. He hasn't, yet, but its still early.

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/fisc_unsealing_motion.pdf



DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #160 



July 27, 1970 .......

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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #161 
If you are asking whether,

"Are any of those "terrorist acts" in the link listed directly attributed successes from data culled by the indiscriminate data collection of American cell phone use?

No.


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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #162 
Bill - I took your post as saying no intelligence surveillance whatsoever has played a role in stopping any terrorist plots.  What is your response to Rep. Rogers and the NY Subway attack?  Do you give no credit to this NSA surveillance and what convinced you they deserved none?

My understanding is the Government has always had the authority to access phone records, upon court approval, if deemed necessary.  The problem is, every few months all these records are destroyed and this NSA program allowed these records to be gathered and stored in the event they were needed.  In other words, access has always been there assuming records hadn't been discarded.

BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #163 
Quote:
Bill, read Key points on right of Dewey's link & what Obama did his first 1 1/2 years until he realized how wrong he was a how right Bush was. While a senator Obama tore into the Patriot act & espionage act of 1917, now he has expanded the Patriot act & used the espionage act to go after FNCs Rosen.


And Hillary Clinton, upon coming into her cabinet position exclaimed she was going to take dead aim on the secrets of America and declassify secrets with her new powers, using the Freedom of Information Act as her weapon. Thankfully, she stuck to UFOs. ;-)

When these people put on the "big boy pants", they learn a whole lotta humility. And a few reasons not to lend their secret decoder rings out to reporters or the public at large.

PRISM is not an Obama issue. Not a political issue. It certainly is a constitutional issue. And it is essentially useless, in that culling this much data weighs down those that must comb through it. Some of you here won't even do each other's little homework assignments. Whose going to sift through all that call data? Aint' me.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #164 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith


PRISM is not an Obama issue. Not a political issue. It certainly is a constitutional issue.


Bill - I recommend you watch the cable shows I watch.  The network starting with "F" thinks it's very much an Obama issue.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #165 

Dewey,

Explained in greater depth in a PM.

Yes, with warrant, the gov't can near about do anything that infringes on personal privacy. That's a given.

Didn't say ANY intelligence gathering, merely this particular program. Isn't that what the thread is about?


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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith


PRISM is not an Obama issue. Not a political issue. It certainly is a constitutional issue.


Bill - I recommend you watch the cable shows I watch.  The network starting with "F" thinks it's very much an Obama issue.

IMO the program is too large & I'm not to sure we have it secured. When some 29 year old goof ball can get access to it, kind of bothers me a bit.
I also get a little upset when politicians from either side, you name them, say relax, don't worry, nothing new is being done, etc, that also bothers me.
It more or less appears to me that our government has run amok & thinks we should just blow off the likes of their screw-ups. I at one time had a great deal of trust in my government, not so much any more.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #167 
B10IS1- The twenty-somethings that have access to this information could hardly be classified as 'goof balls'. Occasionally imbalanced perhaps. Ha ha ha. The community tasked to performing these jobs live with Loc-Tite on every screw. Sometimes they get over-torqued...or a conscious...but they aren't goof balls.
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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #168 
B10 - Your concern for who has access is similar to what O'Reilly is ranting about.  He too is worried that corrupt individuals might use this date improperly.  Of course corrupt individuals can abuse the power they've been given.  That's true everywhere.  Corrupt cops can taint evidence.  Corrupt judges can issue undeserved warrants.  Corrupt IRS workers can leak personal information.  Corrupt NSA workers can abuse the data.  That same argument can be used to shut down every Government Agency we have. 

I tend to believe our laws do an excellent job of offsetting such abuse.  One guy is in Hong Kong and may eventually find his way back here for prosecution thanks to these laws.  It's risky to be corrupt.  People go to prison for it.  We simply can't shut everything down because corrupt people abuse their positions.  That said, this subject is worthy of debate and hopefully it will be an intelligent one.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #169 
Like I said in another thread
I guess we should all approach the things like F&F, Benghazi, IRS investigations, AP taps, Rosen taps, prism, new state dept cover ups as just political witch hunts by the right to " cause fear & divide " or maybe just say, " What difference does it make "
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #170 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
B10 - Your concern for who has access is similar to what O'Reilly is ranting about.  He too is worried that corrupt individuals might use this date improperly.  Of course corrupt individuals can abuse the power they've been given.  That's true everywhere.  Corrupt cops can taint evidence.  Corrupt judges can issue undeserved warrants.  Corrupt IRS workers can leak personal information.  Corrupt NSA workers can abuse the data.  That same argument can be used to shut down every Government Agency we have. 

I tend to believe our laws do an excellent job of offsetting such abuse.  One guy is in Hong Kong and may eventually find his way back here for prosecution thanks to these laws.  It's risky to be corrupt.  People go to prison for it.  We simply can't shut everything down because corrupt people abuse their positions.  That said, this subject is worthy of debate and hopefully it will be an intelligent one.
I'm with you. I see the guy in Hong Kong, where are all the other corrupt people in all these cases? Heck, most of them have retired on Gov pensions, are suspended with pay, transferred or maybe even in a couple of cases promoted.
Many under Bush were just as corrupt, but at least there were firings, dismissals, resignations or even some prosecuted.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #171 
The guy in Hong Kong admitted he broke the law.  This wrongdoing is clear.  Your side too often throws out the corruption accusation where it isn't, or at least hasn't been proven.  That's a whole different story.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #172 
Quote:
Originally Posted by B10IS1
Like I said in another thread
I guess we should all approach the things like F&F, Benghazi, IRS investigations, AP taps, Rosen taps, prism, new state dept cover ups as just political witch hunts by the right to " cause fear & divide " or maybe just say, " What difference does it make "


That's right, because that's the way government is supposed to operate. The leftists said so.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #173 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
The guy in Hong Kong admitted he broke the law.  This wrongdoing is clear.  Your side too often throws out the corruption accusation where it isn't, or at least hasn't been proven.  That's a whole different story.
One thing I will admit about Bush versus Obama, he was a lot worse at cover ups. Republican's usually don't do a very good job of it in general.
Obama stands in a great line of pros from Kennedy to Clinton to Obama.

But you go ahead and keep boasting how much of a saint you have in the WH, I'm betting it comes back to bite you some day.
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #174 
June 11, 2013, 9:03 am

Boehner Calls Snowden a Traitor

WASHINGTON – The House speaker, John A. Boehner, offered harsh criticism of the man who leaked classified information on the government’s Internet and telephone monitoring programs, and gave his strongest defense of the surveillance efforts on Tuesday.

“He’s a traitor,” Mr. Boehner said in an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Tuesday. He added: “The disclosure of this information puts Americans at risk. It shows our adversaries what our capabilities are. And it’s a giant violation of the law.”

Last week, as revelations about the National Security Agency’s electronic surveillance programs were still unfolding, Mr. Boehner was more circumspect, saying it was incumbent on President Obama to defend the efforts to the American people. But the leaders of both political parties have now closed ranks around the Internet and telephone surveillance programs, especially with the emergence of Edward J. Snowden, a former N.S.A. contractor, as the source of the leak.

“When you look at these programs, there are clear safeguards,” Mr. Boehner said. “There’s no American who’s going to be snooped on in any way, unless they’re in contact with some terrorists somewhere around the world.”

The speaker added: “There is heavy oversight of this program by the House Intelligence Committee on a bipartisan basis and the Senate Intelligence Committee. And that’s why I feel comfortable that we can operate this program and protect the privacy rights of our citizens.”

Mr. Snowden claims he is a truth teller. In an interview in The Guardian, he said the American people had a right to know about government abuses that were hidden from them.

Mr. Boehner’s strong stand makes a legislative response to curtail the programs or declassify aspects of them even more unlikely. Some liberal Democrats and libertarian-minded Republicans have said Congress should respond with more public debate and legislation to explicitly prohibit the search for phone and Internet records of any individual without a warrant showing probable cause.

But so far, such calls have not expanded beyond the small number of lawmakers who have been expressing such concerns for the past three years – to little effect.


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“A good leader takes a little more than his share of the blame, a little less than his share of the credit.” Arnold H. Glasow
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #175 
Think of all the info our government is gathering on us. Think of the power they have.
It's been said," power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'.
To me its not that nothing has happened to hurt us, the problem is what could happen. I read where the nsa employs almost 1M private contractors , I am sure they are all trustworthy?
I say leave me alone & my personal info. If you think I am guilty of a crime, get a court order & listen in on me & come after me. In the meantime, leave my private info alone.
Wonder if Amazon is giving them the books I buy or Visa, AE, MC & Pay pal what I buy? Who knows or maybe that's next?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #176 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke

Boehner Calls Snowden a Traitor



Who cares what Boehner called him? 

I call him a hero

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #177 
Quote:
Originally Posted by B10IS1

Wonder if Amazon is giving them the books I buy or Visa, AE, MC & Pay pal what I buy? Who knows or maybe that's next?


Exactly, 'it' will eventually record and log all purchases except maybe cash purchases, if is isn't being done already

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #178 
When you hear legal, remember that the government can define legal to suit its purposes. Nor does legal necessarily mean constitutional.
Also, remember that slavery was legal. Everything Hitler did was legal.
Legal, moral, and ethical aren't always synonymous.
Lovemesomesoftball

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Reply with quote  #179 
Wanted to add my point of views but found myself writing a book. This video best sums up my disappointment.

bluedog

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Reply with quote  #180 
We must, all, be suspected of a crime! 
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