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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #121 
Read that FISA court approves 99.97% of requests. Like a rubber-stamping kangaroo court.
Congressional oversight is only as good as what they are told, an easily subverted process.

Not far to go from a government that serves the people to a government that serves itself. We aren't far from there now.

As JG frequently points out, many officials in Washington are in it for themselves, hence the Washington way of cronyism, waste and abuse, all at the taxpayers expense. Lust for power and greed have supplanted serving the nation, and it's time to shrink the over-reaching federal behemoth and return power to states and local communities.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #122 
FIB - I'll take that as you're in the Rand Paul camp and are against this NSA program.  It would seem to me you aren't giving Congressional oversight much credit.  All the intel committees agreed they were fully informed and it appears all info was available to all members of Congress.  If we take you and mikec at your pessimistic word, it doesn't matter if you make programs legal or not.  The three branches of Government will simply get together and say "do it anyway", we won't talk.  I have more faith in our democracy and I think it's a poor argument to dismiss the fact three branches of Government must be involved.  That's a pretty good checks and balances system if you ask me.  Of course, if you can make the FISA court seem meaningless, then you can suggest Bush avoiding court approval and Obama requiring court approval as being one and the same.  Not so my friend, not so.

spazsdad - Sorry, I missed your post.  NSA needs court to sign off too before they can access data collected.  I was using the analogy about cops getting warrants, what keeps them from going beyond?  That was mikec's slippery slope argument I was trying to counter.
woody

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Reply with quote  #123 
MSNBC says that surveys indicate that the majority of people expect to have their private emails, phone calls and facebook pages monitored by the government. So what is the big deal? (sarcasm emonicom inserted here)

Edit, Dewey, I don't mind the NSA spying on foreign nationals and combatants, and foreign governments, but regardless of administration, this is unacceptable. This is indeed 1984. Nobody assumed that a government would be able to watch you through a TV set, and now it has become reality through the technology of the Internet, and cell phones. Big government no longer follows the bill of rights. Citizens have now become monitored, potential enemies of the state apparatus. Everyone is a potential criminal, and should be held to scrutiny. All must be monitored. It is for your own safety, and the security of the nation. The government knows what is best for us, and we should just go along with it. Right?

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You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #124 
woody?  woody?  Oh man, you forgot to state your position.
woody

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Reply with quote  #125 
I sometimes tend to beat around the Liberal Bush with a big stick.
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You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
I sometimes tend to beat around the Liberal Bush with a big stick.


I think you're with me on this one and can't bring yourself to admit it.

oops!  I guess not.

Edit:  I must say, I don't know how you guys held your tongue back then when Bush first put this NSA program together.
woody

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Reply with quote  #127 
I didn't, the Patriot Act is an abomination to our Constitutional Rights. The DHS should be abolished along with a few other alphabetic named revenue sucking entities. "You are either with us or against us." I heard that somewhere before from a Liberal politician in the Republican Party.
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You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #128 
Peggy Noonan has some thoughts on the surveillance state

http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/06/08/the-era-of-metadata/

Excerpt:

1. The thing political figures fear most is a terror event that will ruin their careers. The biggest thing they fear is that a bomb goes off and it can be traced to something they did or didn’t do, an action they did or didn’t support. They all fear being accused of not doing enough to keep the citizenry safe.

This is true of Republicans and Democrats. Their anxiety has no ideology. They all fear being the incumbent in the election in which the challenger says, in a debate: “That’s all well and fine, Senator, we’re sure you’re upset at what happened. But at the moment it counted, when you could have supported all efforts to keep the people safe and bust the terror network, you weren’t there. You were off giving lectures on what you call civil liberties, and explaining why you were voting ‘no.’ Well, life is a civil liberty—and now a thousand people are dead.” Nobody wants to be that incumbent.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #129 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
I didn't,


Yeah, but nobody got angry enough to go political inside here until Obama inauguration day.  That's what I mean about you guys never criticized your man in office while he was in office.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #130 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Some of our UCS members jumped on this story as another anti-Obama supposed scandal.  I'd sure like each and every one of you to listen to Sen. Feinstein and Rep. Rogers and then come back and share your opinion, (this means you too woody).  Tell the readers what you agreed with and what you disagreed with.  So much for using this issue for Obama bashing.  By the way, Republican Rep. Rogers confirms no emails are being read.


Why are you asking others to read your little homework assignment and then to tell the readers what they agree and don't agree with, but then not do so yourself? Do your own assignment, I'm sure others will comment if so inclined.

Btw, just because some in Congress defend this doesn't make it right.

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #131 
Anything that comes out of Feinsteins mouth is garbage. She epitomizes everything that is wrong with government. She wouldn't know the Constitution if it hit her in her surgically altered face.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #132 
FIB - I thought it was both an interesting and important subject that this Country is going to have to come to terms with, one way or the other.  These two Representatives made a very good case, one I was able to accept.  (I said this earlier in case you missed it.)  I think this NSA program had the appropriate oversight, was minimally invasive, and has likely done a great deal to help protect us from additional attacks.  Whether it was right or wrong will be each individuals own decision to make.  Don't chime in if you don't want to but I thought it would be interesting to ask who found this program acceptable and who didn't.  I wasn't inviting Feinstein attacks, just opinions on a matter in the news.  Sorry if you thought that was out of line but we are known to discuss politics inside here and I thought this subject would be good one to kick around.  Don't get so worked up.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
I didn't,


Yeah, but nobody got angry enough to go political inside here until Obama inauguration day.  That's what I mean about you guys never criticized your man in office while he was in office.


That really bothers you, doesn't it?  You say it at least once a week.


About 1/10th as much as the ongoing concern inside here that I won't speak ill of President Obama.  The most bogus theme perpetrated in here is the "at least we criticize our own" suggestion.  When a Libertarian criticizes President Bush, it is far from of their own.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #134 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
In my opinion, everyone has faults, even Mr. Obama.  Ignoring them perpetuates the Pollyanna persona and strategically weakens one's credibility in any argument.  


Man, people in here are really concerned with my credibility.  They bring it up at least once a week.  Like the President, my own family has faults but I won't bring them up in public.  If I've ever said the President has no faults, please share it with us.
bhblue

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Posts: 1,963
Reply with quote  #135 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
When a Libertarian criticizes President Bush, it is far from of their own.
Where is all this Libertatian business coming from Dewey? Were you given talking points from Prog headquarters to label anyone complaining about the NSA or IRS situations as a Libertarian? You sure have been throwing the word around on here the last few days.  Don't remember you using it much before.
B10IS1

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Posts: 623
Reply with quote  #136 
http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2013/06/10/109948

I shouldn't have said that the president had no leadership skills, my wife & I got a visit last night
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #137 
bhblue - What's wrong with saying Libertarian?  Rand Paul says he's a Libertarian.  At least I didn't put "tard" on the end of it as I would never consider doing that.  Many people inside here refuse to identify themselves, (they have no problem calling everyone on my side Liberals), so I'm left to guess on my own what different folks might consider.  I'm saying a Libertarian will never criticize a Libertarian, a Tea Partier will not criticize a Tea Party candidate, and a moderate Republican won't criticize a moderate Republican.  I didn't think I said anything derogatory, did I?  I'm simply saying you're all, (regardless how you identify yourself), the same as me in that regard.  I guess I don't understand your objection.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #138 
I for one am not concerned with dewey's credibility. 

Just like obama and his administration, they, plus dewey, have no credibility, as in zero.  Like FIB said in one of his posts, dewey can't be taken serious any longer with his pom poms for this president and his lengthy, spinning, hyperbole of posts are just ignored by the 50,000 readers here

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #139 
bhblue - that darkness you're sensing?  That's the rathole you're being sucked into.
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #140 
Myself, I am a registered Republican, just rejoined the local Tea Party [ so I can go to a few of the potlucks & get the emails on local issues ], but I am leaning toward registering as a libertarian. Rand Paul is a guy that I agree with on more issues than any. I think he is a straight shooter.
Would pay to see him debate Hillary Clinton, she would blow her stack.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #141 
Wouldn't it be nice if we could do away with the labels and just identify people by the positions they hold?  Here are my views on the matter:

Obama - believes government is the answer to most problems and will aggressively seek to expand government's role in most aspects of our lives. 
Harry Reid - holds the same beliefs as Obama and further believes that it is his duty to carry out Obama's priorities as best he can.
Nancy Pelosi - see Harry Reid.
Hillary Clinton - is beholden to one ideology - that of advancing the cause of Hillary Clinton.
Bill Clinton - is beholden to one ideology - that of advancing the cause of Bill Clinton.
Al Gore - one of the most brilliant people of the 20th and 21st centuries - single-handedly perpetrated the single biggest hoax (man-made global warming) in history and reaped huge personal economic gain from that hoax.
John Boehner - wants to carry out a conservative agenda but believes he must try to work with Democrats like Reid and Pelosi and is afraid to hold a true conservative opinion publicly.  Is completely ineffective in carrying out a conservative agenda.
Mitch McConnell - see John Boehner.
Paul Ryan - of the old guard Rebublicans, has the most consistent views of advancing conservatism but is haunted by inconsistency in voting record (i.e. - Stimulus)
Rand Paul - a stalwart of consistently conservative views such as limited government, stemming the erosion of personal freedoms, and defending the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Ted Cruz - see Rand Paul.
Tea Party Movement - a movement that was begun when people in this country saw their freedoms being taken away and the Constitution shredded.  Has been the subject of the most vicious slander attacks ever perpetrated by the Obama sycophants in the mainstream media.
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #142 
Dewey - Not objecting. Just wondering why the new tactic. If I start hearing it from the usual suspects in the media, I'll have my answer.

pabar - If you mean Dewey's usual M.O., not happening.  Just pointing out an observation and moving on.

Am I the only one here that senses growing desperation in him based on some of his recent posts?  His heroes are making it increasingly harder for him to defend them with any reason or logic.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #143 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue
Am I the only one here that senses growing desperation in him based on some of his recent posts?  His heroes are making it increasingly harder for him to defend them with any reason or logic.


bhblue - Hey, wake up.  You're dreaming.  Not a chance.  Immigration reform has picked up another Republican Senator.  The IRS controversy was started by a Conservative Republican.  The NSA is a Republcan program made right by Obama using the Court and the Congress.  Markets are up and jobs are added.  We're making slow progress despite obstruction.  The GOP is splitting three ways.  Boehner can't keep peace between one extreme and the other.  Rubio's getting dizzy.  Christie is being dismissed.  What in the world would I be desperate about?  Maybe the NSA needs to have some more debate but that's good.  It will have both Parties on both sides of the issue and will look bi-partisan.  I'm good but thanks for your concern.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #144 
pabar - I don't know how many times that makes where one member had to warn another member, "don't bite, it's Dewey".  Odd, to say the least.  In any event, bhblue is a big boy and far more than capable of carrying on an exchange with yours truly.
GoHawks

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Posts: 481
Reply with quote  #145 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhblue
Am I the only one here that senses growing desperation in him based on some of his recent posts?  His heroes are making it increasingly harder for him to defend them with any reason or logic.


bhblue - Hey, wake up.  You're dreaming.  Not a chance.  Immigration reform has picked up another Republican Senator.  The IRS controversy was started by a Conservative Republican.  The NSA is a Republcan program made right by Obama using the Court and the Congress.  Markets are up and jobs are added.  We're making slow progress despite obstruction.  The GOP is splitting three ways.  Boehner can't keep peace between one extreme and the other.  Rubio's getting dizzy.  Christie is being dismissed.  What in the world would I be desperate about?  Maybe the NSA needs to have some more debate but that's good.  It will have both Parties on both sides of the issue and will look bi-partisan.  I'm good but thanks for your concern.


Hey Dewey! Right On (as usual).

You'd probably have more people on your side here if you weren't doing such a great of job of doing all the work (and having the patience ).
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #146 
Dewey - you're true to your master in the White House.  Trying to dictate what people say and how.  Yes, bhblue is capable of carrying on a conversation and I'm free to express my opinion on the matter and offer advice, requested or not.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #147 
GoHawks - Thanks.

pabar - Whether it's Ron Paul, Rand Paul, or Ted Cruz, you'll no doubt be equally supportive of your candidate.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #148 
FISA court approves 99.97% of requests.

"But the FISC has declined just 11 of the more than 33,900 surveillance requests made by the government in 33 years, the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday. That's a rate of .03 percent, which raises questions about just how much judicial oversight is actually being provided."



http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/fisa-court-nsa-spying-opinion-reject-request

So much for judicial review.

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #149 
It wasn't just Obama who flip-flopped on surveillance. Kerry and Hagel opposed it as well.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/10/Sen-Obama-Opposed-Government-Fishing-Expeditions-Under-Patriot-Act

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #150 
Let me provide some more very important information.  There's no doubt Obama is still against fishing expeditions.  These records are not reviewed unless there is a reason to do so and the Court approves.  The Congress is briefed so checks are in order.  The reason these records are collected and held is because phone companies destroy them after so many months.  Finally, readers need to keep in mind the President supported the FISA Act, much to the chagrin of many Democrats, and greatly improved the checks and balances missing during the Bush Administration.  You're free to be against this program, just as you're free to be against taking shoes off in the airport, but it's legal, it has oversight, and it is done to stop terrorist attacks.  Two of these attacks have been described and being classified keeps others from being shared with the public.  Again, most Republicans support this program and if one is including this as part of an anti-Obama campaign, they're being disingenuous.  It should be directed as an anti-FISA Act comment.
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