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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1171 
Edward Snowden's just joined twitter.

His first tweet?


@Snowden: Can you hear me now?
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #1172 

It isn't a matter of being heard, but for how long.

Better than Snowden was Pee Wee Herman's remark at MTV Awards...

"Heard any good jokes lately?"

Even better, Hillary's comments in April 2014 remarking about Snowden with, "I have a hard time thinking that somebody who is a champion of privacy and liberty has taken refuge in Russia under Putin's authority."

Just like I would have a hard time thinking that a Secretary of State would use a private email server for classified information.

Kettles & pots on the fire.


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Bill Smith
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info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1173 
Judge rules again that NSA phone collection is unconstitutional.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151109/12181632767/judge-again-says-nsa-phone-records-program-is-unconstitutional-orders-nsa-to-stop-collecting-phone-records-plaintiffs.shtml

Last time, this same judge stayed his ruling pending an appeals court hearing. Not surprisingly it took the appeals court years to decide on the case and they kicked it back, not so much on legal merit but because the plaintiff lacked standing. This time, the judge made sure the plaintiff had standing, and he did not stay his decision.

The link provides a great review of where this stands now and what's next.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #1174 
I expect the appeals process will be much quicker since he didn't stay his decision. The government had no incentive to move quickly last time.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1175 
Yes, this judge appears to have corrected his errors from last time around.
woody

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Reply with quote  #1176 
Yes, the Judge says the aggrieved party is a specific law firm. Perfect.
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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1177 
We know now that the government has been far more intrusive than they admit to, and likely up to all manner of shenanigans to continue what is likely unlawful surveillance and collection.

So in rewriting the rules, aka Patriot Act 2, it seems the Obama DOJ has lied to the court. (Or to be diplomatic, they have been "inaccurate.")

How do we know?

A sitting US Senator just ratted out the DOJ, and submitted the classified documentation to prove it.

No doubt this is boring in the Era of Trump, but the business of Big Government crushing the people continued apace. It's too bad most Americans simply don't care that their constitutional rights are being trampled.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/another-privacy-canary-coal-mines
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #1178 
I just debated a Conservative who wants our Federal Government to sterilize Americans.  Talk about rights being trampled.  I say ask those voters who are waiting hours in a line somewhere in order to vote who the real Government intruders are. 
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #1179 
That was a debate? Is that what you call it?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1180 
In the present instance you have the actual USG lying to a court, in your post you have a single poster's idea.

There's a term called "false equivalence" you'd do well to learn if you ever hope to present a coherent argument.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #1181 
The only "equivalence" discussion that matters around here is whether the Democrats or the GOP winning the WH and the Congress, would make for a better America.  I'm going with the Dems and making the case for them.  Any inconsistency I run across can be a useful example toward that regard.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #1182 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
In the present instance you have the actual USG lying to a court,

From the ACLU link FIB posted...

The government has withheld the OLC opinion on common commercial service agreements in its entirety and defended that secrecy in court. Last month, after the government filed its brief in our lawsuit, Sen. Wyden wrote a public letter to the attorney general noting that the government’s brief in our case contains a “key assertion” that is “inaccurate” and “central to the DOJ’s legal arguments.” He also attached a classified annex to the letter that discussed this inaccuracy in detail. Senator Wyden then submitted an amicus brief in support of our lawsuit, urging the court to review the classified annex to his public letter. (Five days later, the ACLU filed its brief challenging the government’s suppression of the opinion.)

FIB - Any credible info on what what the OLC opinion contains?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1183 
PDad - no one (that I know of) is better at deciphering these goings-on than Marcy Wheeler, and she's still not certain, but has some good info here:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/03/24/doj-claims-the-cybersecurity-related-olc-memo-is-also-a-stellar-wind-memo/

It looks like it goes back to Stellar Wind and the fight over whether the USG could collect US citizen information while collecting data on foreign terror suspects. Its relevance today would appear to relate to how commercial companies are impacted by USG collection measures. That Wyden says the memo describes USG actions (or authorizations) that are vastly different than what the public understands the government to be doing could mean a variety of things, but remember it was Wyden who was blowing the whistle on surveillance programs that Snowden later came forward and confirmed in spades. If history teaches us anything in regard to Wyden pushing this hard, there's plenty of there there, and the Obama admin is using it in ways that most Americans would object to.

Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #1184 
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/mystery-solved-box-on-phoenix-utility-pole-belongs-to-atf
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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1185 


Think ATF might have been monitoring ammunition purchases? I Wonder if they tapped into the stores computer systems and phones as well.
woody

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Reply with quote  #1186 
Why buy from a store when you can bulk purchase 1000 rounds, 55 gallon drums or even pallets of bulk ammo online with free shipping, and no state sales tax?

Some of these sites have constantly updated prices for bulk ammo. Ammo Grab is purty good

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/american-eagle-xm855-556-62-grain-centerfire-rifle-ammunition--12500-round-barrel

https://www.ammograb.com/556x45mm-nato/

http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Bulk-Ammo-s/2083.htm

http://www.midwayusa.com/ammunition/c?cid=653

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #1187 
Remember when the government said they weren't spying on Americans and any information they inadvertently captured would be discarded.

And some of us didn't believe them

Well, it's now officially on the record that the FBI (once upon a time they said only the NSA was doing the spying, how quickly that changed!) can use collection from their spying efforts as it sees fit.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-fisa-court-records-20160419-story.html

Remember when Americans despised the evil Soviet and East German governments for exactly these types of activities?

Is there really a difference who authorizes this type of governmental misconduct, between say Stalin and a secret court judge?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #1188 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
FIB - My understanding is they are collecting phone call data.  That's it.  If you have other evidence, where did you get it?  Do you have an inside source?  In any event, you are free to believe what you want.

As far as during Bush presidency, I had no reason to be against the NSA program.  It didn't bother me then and it doesn't bother me now.  In addition, I don't accept your premise that Obama drastically expanded it.  You're just back on your "Obama is bad" kick.  If he did, I'm confident they followed the law as they understood it to be.  I don't believe there is anything sinister going on here and everyone on record has said no abuses have been discovered.  Bill will say I'm naive.  So be it.  

Finally, which organizations are you talking about?  I agree there are those out there that fight and expose all the Government does or doesn't do and that's a good thing in my opinion.  In any event, all I wanted to know was if you would have voted yay or nay on the Freedom Act as well as a complete re-authorization of the Patriot Act?  Maybe you care to share and maybe you don't.



 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
The first line is the very definition of "willful ignorance."

How do I know they are doing more? My inside source, of course. His name is Edward Snowden. Perhaps you've heard of him? Perhaps you've heard of the NYT, WaPo, LAT, and pretty much every news organizatikn that covers national and international news? They too are my secret sources. Them there is Congress and numerous current and foreign intel officials, all among my secret sources. 

Hard to believe anyone hasn't heard anything about the programs Snowden revealed, but somewhat easier to believe considering who that person is. Pretty disrespectful of our knowledgable readers, to insist all the surveillance state does is collect phone info. I think we are on 30 pages now on this topic, and yet... "Only phone records!" 

Lol 



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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #1189 
dewy is for collection of phone data but he doesn't know what phone data is.  One thing we do know, understanding phone data is above dewy's pay grade
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #1190 
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ForeverInBlue 

Registered:10/19/11
Posts: 9,752
   #1081 
When Congress re-authorized the Patriot Act in 2006 they included mandates to protect the privacy of US citizens. The DOJ and FISC ignored FBI abuses until some real transparency in the form of Edward Snowden exposed them in 2013. That's five years into Barry's presidency that they were cheating. So there's obviously precedent to suggest the DOJ under Obama will not prosecute abuse, and also precedent to suggest the FBI will not comply with legal mandates. 

Take a minute and go back and read liberal Ron Fourniers peice on the danger facing all Americans from a government they cannot trust. 

Here's the article

http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/why-we-can-t-trust-the-nsa-and-why-that-s-a-crisis-20150601
 
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Dewey 

Registered:08/08/04
Posts: 23,808
   #1082 
The way it was explained last night was the collection of data was not unconstitutional in its own right but the Act wasn't made specific enough by Congress to allow the NSA the right to collect and hold it.  Evidently, the new law will now clarify this ability with some changes as to who will hold the data.
 
ForeverInBlue 

Registered:10/19/11
Posts: 9,752
   #1083 
What are you even talking about? Why should anyone believe anything you post? With the way you make things up and troll the board all day, what credibility do you think you have? 
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#MakeDCListen #End Socialism #NoDems #2016 #ForAmerica

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,616
Reply with quote  #1191 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith


Quote:
Quote: dewy
Generally speaking I have no problem with the Patriot Act, or Freedom Act, or whatever they want to call it, because I do nothing wrong.



While you feel you are doing 'nothing wrong', those that have the metadata may not agree with your self-assessment. And therein lies the problem.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 22,616
Reply with quote  #1192 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Remember when the government said they weren't spying on Americans and any information they inadvertently captured would be discarded. And some of us didn't believe them Well, it's now officially on the record that the FBI (once upon a time they said only the NSA was doing the spying, how quickly that changed!) can use collection from their spying efforts as it sees fit. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-fisa-court-records-20160419-story.html Remember when Americans despised the evil Soviet and East German governments for exactly these types of activities? Is there really a difference who authorizes this type of governmental misconduct, between say Stalin and a secret court judge?


posted 420/2016^

https://sharylattkisson.com/obama-era-surveillance-timeline/

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Posts: 9,809
Reply with quote  #1193 
Thanks for update kiir!

I came here to post that same timeline [smile]

The timeline by Sheryl Atkinson is stunning, clearly shows how Obama weaponized US Intel for political purposes.

That's more than just a little illegal. He belongs in prison, which is unlikely, meaning every president going forward can flagrantly abuse the system without fear of repurcussions

Imagine if Hillary had that power. Trump has it now, which in itself is worrisome.

No president should have such powers, but we're beyond that now. This adds to Obama's disastrous legacy.
mikec

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Posts: 8,056
Reply with quote  #1194 
Gotta love the way it starts:

"President Obama takes office; pledges unprecedented transparency."
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