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Dewey

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There are babies born into poor families and babies born into great wealth.  I've seen kids with only one parent and kids who have both.  I know folks who have black or brown skin and I know folks with blond hair and blue eyes.  I know a lot of straight people and I know a few gay ones.  I personally know people who have proudly served this Country and suffered injuries and/or serious trauma.  I also know many who didn't serve at all.  I have a couple of acquaintances who have cared for a family member much of their life yet I know many friends I'd call carefree.  I've seen people with significant contacts who help them gain a college education or career while I've seen many others that have none.  I've seen the athletically gifted and I've seen those that definitely aren't.
 
I knew of, and still know, people who engaged in premarital sex when young and became parents long before they ever anticipated.  I know others who did likewise and give thanks every day that they fortunately avoided a similar outcome.  I've seen speeding, texting, and drinking damage more lives than I care to think of while I've seen others do all of the above and come out completely unscathed.   Needless to say,  I've seen people in the right place at the right time and I've seen people in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
Yes, success and opportunity are equally available to each and every one of us while the "road" getting there is equally different.  If you've been fortunate enough to find success and great happiness in your life, like me, I say count your lucky stars...don't count your money.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #2 
Dewey - Me too.  Personally, I can't tell you how many times I've told my wife how very fortunate we have been and are.  As for the rather constant "debating" on UCS, however one phrases the situation, we must go back to a rather simple question - To what degree, if at all, should the federal and state governments be responsible to all the citizens, and to what, if any, degree should the state in the USA be responsible for those "less fortunate" in wealth distribution and in creating more or less equality of opportunity?  In doing that, one must regard the entire USA, not merely his own pocket book (therein lies the perspective rub).  Once a person answers that question for himself, he can then recognize clearly where he stands in regard to the role of government in our representative republic in relation to all the citizens. One man's role as his brother's keeper is another man's "nanny state".  
 

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
indyrun

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Reply with quote  #3 
One thing I that think gets completely lost on those that LOVE to point fingers at certain groups of individuals (and love "grouping" those same individuals), is that NONE of us - anybody, anywhere - had one single thing to say about where we were born, grew up, who are parents were, weren't, what our parents did or didn't do, in raising or not raising us, AND just how fortunate so many of us were, are and will be, IF those stars happened to align.

Even tho not of a religious persuasion, I think that "there but for the grace of god, go I", is about as apt as it can get. 
POV

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Reply with quote  #4 

I've had the privilege and the heartache of working with the disadvantaged.  While there are those who's intent is to scam the system, there are so many more who aren't. Many do not have some of the basics that many take for granted.  Those basics......a safe place to sleep, a parent to love and teach you, a piece of toast in the morning are what provides the self esteem and confidence necessary for success. I wonder if I would have the strength to "pull myself up" or to just survive they way many do if I hadn't had the daily encouragement and solid foundation that I had.

It's hard to win the game when you start with 10 runs against you.

oldscout

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Dewey - Me too.  Personally, I can't tell you how many times I've told my wife how very fortunate we have been and are.  As for the rather constant "debating" on UCS, however one phrases the situation, we must go back to a rather simple question - To what degree, if at all, should the federal and state governments be responsible to all the citizens, and to what, if any, degree should the state in the USA be responsible for those "less fortunate" in wealth distribution and in creating more or less equality of opportunity?  In doing that, one must regard the entire USA, not merely his own pocket book (therein lies the perspective rub).  Once a person answers that question for himself, he can then recognize clearly where he stands in regard to the role of government in our representative republic in relation to all the citizens. One man's role as his brother's keeper is another man's "nanny state".  
 

JG-I am a strong believer in taking care of the less fortunate, my problem is how we do it.

Here's my question,lets say I give $ 4000 to my local Hope House that provides food, clothing,utility asst.,gasoline vouchers,etc directly to those in need.
                                      { OR }
Lets say they raise my taxes and i don't have the $ 4000 to give because I have less money,so the Gov gets it to redistribute.

Which one do the best job of  redistributing most my money to the needy?

I guess one might conclude that many would not give to those in need & thus the Gov must do it. This has always perplexed me,especially when I see all the waste & misuse of our tax dollars[ this is a partisan thought]

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #6 
old scout - Per usual you have named the problem.  The waste and corruption that attend the government's current means of caring for the less fortunate is unforgivable, and I understand why those who note this oppose the system.  My answer would be to clean up and streamline the system and base it more on hand ups and less on hand outs (though hand outs are absolutely necessary at times).  I
suggest more oversight and less overlook.    Frank

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #7 

Quote:
Originally Posted by indyrun

Even tho not of a religious persuasion, I think that "there but for the grace of god, go I", is about as apt as it can get. 


I hoped when I visited the forum today I'd see this exact quote.  Thank you indyrun.

My post was never intended to imply one side cares or gives more than the other.  When it comes to charitable service, most here blow me out of the water.  Additionally, feel free to continue the debate over how best we address the problems of our fellow citizens.  Instead, my goal here was simply to ask that before we wrap our entire society in the "If I can make it...", theme, we stop and reflect on our own lives and our own particular breaks, good or bad, and understand how our lives may have been different. 

POV had it right when he said there are some folks who won't hesitate to take advantage of the good intentions of both the public and private sectors.  That said, it pains me to hear terms like "nanny" and "dependency" applied to the rest of the folks accepting assistance.

We've all made mistakes in our life, some we paid for and some we didn't.  Many of us have been knocked down by a setback we couldn't avoid.  There are way too many stories to tell and generalizing about any group in society seems unfair.  I hoped a little personal reflection might lead one directly back to indy's quote.   
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #8 



Quote was credited to a christian scholar I believe by the name of Bradford[I think]He said it as he watched prisoners being marched to be hung. & said " there but for the grace of God,go I ". very well said,better watch out though,he was burned at the stake a short time after saying this.

My signature below might want to be the extent of my personal reflections


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
masare

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Reply with quote  #9 

Quote:
That was a powerful statement Dewey, thanks for that!
 

ditto that  


oldscout

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Reply with quote  #10 

http://www.healthiertalk.com/may-you-always-sing-or-howl-no-one-s-listening
I think we can all be in agreement that this is great-I say sing & dance like nobody is watching.

This might be Deweys dog or who's.The dog has to be taking walks with somebody that is pretty upbeat to be this happy.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #11 
Terry - Thank you.  My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed the video, but our doggie thought that the "singer" was a tad off key.   
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
indyrun

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Reply with quote  #12 

So clever - thanks for posting.

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #13 
Red team blue team
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

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"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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