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3leftturns

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Posts: 11,014
Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron
<< Yes, when you play absolute schlock in your conference except for one good team, who you play at home, you are going to do well on the road. >> (3LT)

Hmmmmmmmm.....

I seem to remember that Oklahoma went 2-0 vs. a great SEC team in the super regional... 
at Auburn (and outscored them 9-2).

I guess that makes their undefeated record against opponents that were playing on their own home field... 
just a little bit better than pure schlock. 
That 79 AVERAGE is already slimmed down by those two 7s. Pure schlock
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #32 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
Yeah, until OU can go on the road and beat some of those powerhouse SEC teams, the Sooners will keep on being just another overrated team whose reputation is built on beating up on the Sisters of the Poor schools.

Wait. What???
They got it good alright, not breaking news obviously.

Cruise through the last two months playing Kansas, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Texas, Oklahoma State, and then one legit series against Baylor.

If someone is tight or aching, kid can sit with no threat to the W-L record. Keep everyone nice and healthy for the Sweet 16, when games get competitive again.

Then, they stay where the wind comes right behind the rain from mid-May till June.

And, that's OK, would be damn near perfect if there were video review in play.

It's a great venue, and the weather isn't crazy hot there quite yet in early June.

LandLottery

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Reply with quote  #33 
The weak schedule concept is getting old.  Most of that arises as OU goes on the road out west to develop a team.  In 2016, OU took a bunch of freshmen on the road to find out who could play.  They took some freshmen and sophomores on the road in 2017, but also attempted to integrate some transfers into the program.  Result:

February, 2016:  10-4
February, 2017:  9-4
May, 2016:  17-1, 10-1 in NCAA
May, 2017:  17-1, 11-1 in NCAA

Record against Pac12 2016, February:  2-2
Record against Pac12 2016, May:  0-0
Record against SEC 2016, February:  0-0
Record against SEC 2016, May:  6-1 (also 2-0 against SEC in April)

Record against Pac12 2017, February:  1-1
Record against Pac12 2017, May:  2-0
Record against SEC 2017, February:  1-2
Record against SEC 2017, May:  5-0

The point of this is quite simple.  The rpi may be a bit too concerned with what occurs in the developmental part of the year, a time in which OU tends to stay on the road out west.  When it comes time to play for championships, OU has their team working. 

The only game won by Pac12 or SEC team in May against OU in the past two years was the game in which OU rested Paige Parker against Auburn.

For some reason, the rpi didn't pick up on the strength of an Oklahoma State that took Florida to three games at Florida, nor did it take the strength of a Baylor team that took two of three from Arizona on their home field in the NCAA tournament.
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #34 
<< The point of this is quite simple.  The rpi may be a bit too concerned with what occurs in the developmental part of the year, a time in which OU tends to stay on the road out west.  When it comes time to play for championships, OU has their team working.  

The only game won by Pac12 or SEC team in May against OU in the past two years was the game in which OU rested Paige Parker against Auburn.

For some reason, the rpi didn't pick up on the strength of an Oklahoma State that took Florida to three games at Florida, nor did it take the strength of a Baylor team that took two of three from Arizona on their home field in the NCAA tournament. >> (LandLottery)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nicely stated, LandLottery. 

RPI has not been very successful at predicting the NCAA champions in 2016 or 2017.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #35 
If the games were played in neutral surroundings and with video review, RPI would look a whole lot better.

That said, its rankings still worlds better than anything else that is out there.
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #36 
So, we're back to the tired, old argument that OU wins natties because the Sooners get to play the WCWS in their backyard?
HoustonBear15

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Posts: 168
Reply with quote  #37 
http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/w-softbl/spec-rel/071717aab.html

Baylor adding 3 SEC transfers. Carlee Wallace, Regan Green and Nicky Dawson. Welcome to Waco
3leftturns

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Posts: 11,014
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
So, we're back to the tired, old argument that OU wins natties because the Sooners get to play the WCWS in their backyard?
I never give a crap how tired or old someone may perceive an argument to be, just how accurate it is
dadxfour

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
So, we're back to the tired, old argument that OU wins natties because the Sooners get to play the WCWS in their backyard?



Winners win ...   others make excuses.
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
I never give a crap how tired or old someone may perceive an argument to be, just how accurate it is


And you obviously don't give a crap that your argument is and always has been a turd, no matter how hard you try to polish it.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #41 

There IS no argument. The RPI is pretty damned accurate, every time.

Like anything else, there is a tweak here or there that could improve it.

But there is no human poll that might value April wins over Kansas and devalue early losses that would be in the same zip code, accuracy-wise


scrybe

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Reply with quote  #42 
The only "tweaks" needed: Stop rewarding SEC and Pac 12 teams for losing, and start rewarding Big 12 teams for winning. Out of conference and in conference.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #43 
Always should reward teams for playing a schedule.

Oklahoma, an awesome team with a good schedule, was No. 1 at selection in 2013
Oklahoma, a very good team with an excellent schedule, was 3 at selection in 2016.
Oklahoma, an up-and-down team with a mediocre schedule, was 10 in 2017

RPI does just fine (I would have had Oklahoma as an 8 seed this year, but 10 is in the ballpark)
LandLottery

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Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #44 
First:  OU beat Auburn at Auburn twice in May---not in OKC.  Baylor beat Arizona in Arizona two of three, in May.  Oklahoma State took one of three from Florida at Florida, the top-ranked team.  OSU never beat OU anywhere.

Secondly:  For years, the winner emerging from OKC was always from the West Coast, nearly all from Arizona or California.  Their victories seemed to have little to do with OKC or where it was played.  They also won when the title game was played in Georgia.

It didn't take a mathematician to look at the rpi standings this year and question the validity.  Certain teams were receiving high rpi rankings despite the fact that they were playing nearly all of their games in their home state, mostly on their home field.  Florida, e.g., was a good team.  But, Florida played almost nobody outside the State of Florida, and they lost to a very weak Maryland team in Florida.  Somehow, losing to Maryland didn't seem to affect Florida.  Why  not?

Losing to Houston in College Station didn't seem to affect A&M's rpi.  Why not?

Losing to Penn State in Baton Rouge didn't seem to affect LSU's rpi.  Why not?

Losing to Nebraska-Omaha and Nevada in Utah didn't seem to affect Utah's rpi.  Why?

Losing to Pitt early twice didn't seem to affect Kentucky's rpi.  Why?

For some reason, OU was penalized for losing to some good teams on the road in tournaments.  We also beat a couple of good teams on the road in those tournaments.  But, those losses seemed to really limit OU, the defending national champion.  Why were others not having their rpi affected by losses to some weak teams---on their own home field?  This is what needs to be repaired about the rpi.  If you beat one good team and played really bad teams on your home field and won, the rpi seemed to hold you high.  Beat Prairie View A&M, A&M-Kingsville, Texas San Antonio and lose only to Houston---really, Houston?  Your rpi will be high.

When you start looking at the individual schedules, the fact that the SEC had losses to each other wasn't that impressive.  They had suffered some rather silly losses outside the conference for which they were never really punished.  Why not?

3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #45 

I have to go on shift, but excellent, thought-provoking post, LL...

Will try to delve at that tomorrow

sball11

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Posts: 34
Reply with quote  #46 
Ku softball grabs 4 transfers!


http://www.kuathletics.com/news/2017/7/17/kansas-softball-adds-talent-experience-with-four-transfers.aspx
scrybe

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Posts: 230
Reply with quote  #47 
Megan Smith is recruiting well and under her guidance Kansas could again become competitive in the Big 12. Those of us who are Big 12 fans already know the conference is stronger than it's given credit for. The Big 12 still needs to add few teams, but in its current configuration it has the best team in the nation and at least three other teams that would likely finish among the top 7-8 of the SEC. And of course that would ensure that each of them would earn a Top 30 seed and qualify for the postseason.
scrybe

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Posts: 230
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Always should reward teams for playing a schedule.

Oklahoma, an awesome team with a good schedule, was No. 1 at selection in 2013
Oklahoma, a very good team with an excellent schedule, was 3 at selection in 2016.
Oklahoma, an up-and-down team with a mediocre schedule, was 10 in 2017

RPI does just fine (I would have had Oklahoma as an 8 seed this year, but 10 is in the ballpark)


Let's see:
Oklahoma 2013: No. 1 seed – National Champion.
Oklahoma 2016: No. 3 seed – National Champion.
Oklahoma 2017: No. 10 seed – National Champion.

This year's OU squad, at No. 10, was the lowest seed ever to win a WCWS title. I've stopped caring where the NCAA seeds the Sooners or any Big 12 team, for that matter. But it's obvious to anyone but the most biased among us that OU was the best team at OKC and was way under-seeded for this year's postseason tournament.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #49 
Oklahoma the only team to lose to a 4 seed and win a natty for sure.

They went 5-0 in OKC, scratching by in 17 innings in one of them, and getting two massive calls in two others.

They won those games, so congrats.

But that is the only commonality with 2016 and, certainly 2013.... a team that coulda won the title if the WCWS was held in Gainesville and they had gotten banged by multiple brutal calls.

Maybe the best team ever
Soonereagle

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Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #50 
I think this OU team has the chance to be the best since 2013. They have a returning team that is stacked and experienced. In the field they return 8 of 9 starters only losing the 7 hole hitter left fielder. Lets not forget they are adding a transfer from Missouri Parker Conrad that's going to add more pitching depth. They are adding  freshman, Jocelyn Alo who some say is the best power hitter in the class. So you add Alo's bat and the lineup is even better. Also adding the #21 outfielder and #28 infielder of the class according to Flosfoftball. Also bring in another catcher that some think could challenge for some playing time. Its hard for me to believe they'll get challenged that much in the Big 12. I actually think Baylor will get a challenge from Oklahoma St. for the #2 spot. Texas will be about the same as they have been. On paper another Florida/OU matchup seems very possible. Florida didn't lose much either. Even though they did lose Gourley who is an ace on most staffs. Now the 2019 season could get interesting. They have high profile recruits(3 in the top 10 including #1 Vestal) but there is going to be a lot of change over losing both Paige's, Pendley. Wodach, and Arnold. There will have to be some pitchers step up to the plate to be the ace and #2. 
Doctor

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Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #51 
Ok- In a conference of their own 
Bay and Ok St- solid improving and able to compete on national stage
Texas, Can challenge for 4th or 5th
TT, Sinking ship
Kan, Who knows??
Iowa St - See above  

__________________
Doctor
dropout

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Posts: 120
Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonBear15
http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/w-softbl/spec-rel/071717aab.html Baylor adding 3 SEC transfers. Carlee Wallace, Regan Green and Nicky Dawson. Welcome to Waco


These are 3 HUGE transfers for Baylor. Those are definitely 2 starters (Wallace - C, Dawson - 2B) and potentially a 3rd, as Green could be the 1A or 1B starter.
The 3,4,5 spots of the lineup featuring Wallace, Friudenberg and McGlaun could finally provide some power fear to opponents.
TXSB_FAN1

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Reply with quote  #53 
Does anyone have any info on Potts from Baylor? They have a good team coming back along with awesome transfers. Having a deep staff would have really helped them! 
HoustonBear15

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Posts: 168
Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSB_FAN1
Does anyone have any info on Potts from Baylor? They have a good team coming back along with awesome transfers. Having a deep staff would have really helped them! 

She's no longer listed on the BU roster. She struggled with a back injury last season and only pitched 5 innings. I'm thinking she is simply retiring from the sport as she truly loved Baylor and the team. She was at every game last season cheering as loud as she can. Maybe the injury was just something she couldn't get over. Tough loss for Baylor because she was a solid pitcher. She lead the team in ERA two season ago. The same team that had Heather Stearns as the ace and Kelsee Selman in the bullpen.
HenryLouisAaron

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Posts: 543
Reply with quote  #55 
Landlottery - Just wanted to commend you on this excellent post below.
Interesting points - well stated.


<< First:  OU beat Auburn at Auburn twice in May---not in OKC.  Baylor beat Arizona in Arizona two of three, in May.  Oklahoma State took one of three from Florida at Florida, the top-ranked team.  OSU never beat OU anywhere. 

Secondly:  For years, the winner emerging from OKC was always from the West Coast, nearly all from Arizona or California.  Their victories seemed to have little to do with OKC or where it was played.  They also won when the title game was played in Georgia.

It didn't take a mathematician to look at the rpi standings this year and question the validity.  Certain teams were receiving high rpi rankings despite the fact that they were playing nearly all of their games in their home state, mostly on their home field.  Florida, e.g., was a good team.  But, Florida played almost nobody outside the State of Florida, and they lost to a very weak Maryland team in Florida.  Somehow, losing to Maryland didn't seem to affect Florida.  Why  not?

Losing to Houston in College Station didn't seem to affect A&M's rpi.  Why not?

Losing to Penn State in Baton Rouge didn't seem to affect LSU's rpi.  Why not?

Losing to Nebraska-Omaha and Nevada in Utah didn't seem to affect Utah's rpi.  Why?

Losing to Pitt early twice didn't seem to affect Kentucky's rpi.  Why?

For some reason, OU was penalized for losing to some good teams on the road in tournaments.  We also beat a couple of good teams on the road in those tournaments.  But, those losses seemed to really limit OU, the defending national champion.  Why were others not having their rpi affected by losses to some weak teams---on their own home field?  This is what needs to be repaired about the rpi.  If you beat one good team and played really bad teams on your home field and won, the rpi seemed to hold you high.  Beat Prairie View A&M, A&M-Kingsville, Texas San Antonio and lose only to Houston---really, Houston?  Your rpi will be high.

When you start looking at the individual schedules, the fact that the SEC had losses to each other wasn't that impressive.  They had suffered some rather silly losses outside the conference for which they were never really punished.  Why not? >>

scrybe

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Posts: 230
Reply with quote  #56 
Lefty: Three left turns and your argument winds up right back where it started.

HLA, LandLottery, myself and countless others know where the WCWS title (and three of the last five) resides. We have no reason to argue. [smile]
dadxfour

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Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
Lefty: Three left turns and your argument winds up right back where it started.

HLA, LandLottery, myself and countless others know where the WCWS title (and three of the last five) resides. We have no reason to argue. [smile]

                ^^^
                This
Soonereagle

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Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #58 
Yeah I think its time for everyone to quit feeding the troll. 
scrybe

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Posts: 230
Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soonereagle
Yeah I think its time for everyone to quit feeding the troll. 


Soonereagle, your post was right on the mark, but it also gave me a great idea. 3leftturns should change his user name to "1trollleftstanding." [biggrin]
TXSB_FAN1

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Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron
Landlottery - Just wanted to commend you on this excellent post below.
Interesting points - well stated.


<< First:  OU beat Auburn at Auburn twice in May---not in OKC.  Baylor beat Arizona in Arizona two of three, in May.  Oklahoma State took one of three from Florida at Florida, the top-ranked team.  OSU never beat OU anywhere. 

Secondly:  For years, the winner emerging from OKC was always from the West Coast, nearly all from Arizona or California.  Their victories seemed to have little to do with OKC or where it was played.  They also won when the title game was played in Georgia.

It didn't take a mathematician to look at the rpi standings this year and question the validity.  Certain teams were receiving high rpi rankings despite the fact that they were playing nearly all of their games in their home state, mostly on their home field.  Florida, e.g., was a good team.  But, Florida played almost nobody outside the State of Florida, and they lost to a very weak Maryland team in Florida.  Somehow, losing to Maryland didn't seem to affect Florida.  Why  not?

Losing to Houston in College Station didn't seem to affect A&M's rpi.  Why not?

Losing to Penn State in Baton Rouge didn't seem to affect LSU's rpi.  Why not?

Losing to Nebraska-Omaha and Nevada in Utah didn't seem to affect Utah's rpi.  Why?

Losing to Pitt early twice didn't seem to affect Kentucky's rpi.  Why?

For some reason, OU was penalized for losing to some good teams on the road in tournaments.  We also beat a couple of good teams on the road in those tournaments.  But, those losses seemed to really limit OU, the defending national champion.  Why were others not having their rpi affected by losses to some weak teams---on their own home field?  This is what needs to be repaired about the rpi.  If you beat one good team and played really bad teams on your home field and won, the rpi seemed to hold you high.  Beat Prairie View A&M, A&M-Kingsville, Texas San Antonio and lose only to Houston---really, Houston?  Your rpi will be high.

When you start looking at the individual schedules, the fact that the SEC had losses to each other wasn't that impressive.  They had suffered some rather silly losses outside the conference for which they were never really punished.  Why not? >>




SEC gets bias help in almost any sport. Notice Baylor had an RPI ranking of number 9 on May 14, but yet they end up as a 15 seed. They also had a very impressive pre season. SEC gets a pass. They are the best conference, but have been beaten twice by the Big 12 in Championship in last two games. Doesn't matter what sport they are doing they will always get bias help. 
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