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bisonfan

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Reply with quote  #1 
I can certainly see calling the IP's if they are ACTUALLY happening....but to call them for the hell of it because "big brother" MAY  be watching is insane....
Might as well have each batter go up to the plate with a 1-0 count.
Read somewhere online that in ONE game, IP called 43 times.....wow

sbteacher

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Reply with quote  #2 

Bottom line pitch correctly and you don't get called. What everyone is complaining about is like letting every pitcher in baseball balk because all of them do it.

mikec

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Reply with quote  #3 

What are they calling - pitching lane violations, leap and replant, or other?  It'd be interesting to know.

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec

What are they calling - pitching lane violations, leap and replant, or other?  It'd be interesting to know.



Mostly leap and replant

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #5 
Another whiney thread about rules violators getting caught

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ozomaha

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Posts: 104
Reply with quote  #6 
"why change things?"..
Silly me. Because it is the right thing to do, the right thing to teach not cheating.
Silly ethics. Would you want your other school or college teachers teaching your kids
with that same system of ethics, cheat until you are caught? That teacher would be run out on a rail.


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ozomaha
iwitness

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozomaha
OR....quit whining and crying about be caught? God, would that would be unique. For years the gutless have let it go, now they have a fit of integrity and the world is coming to an end. Blame the scumballs that taught kids to break the rules or the administors, umpires, parents,and coaches that encourage it. Please don't give me that lame excuse the kids don't know, they know.They know who the adults were that encouraged them to do it too.

First off I am not whining or crying about my pitchers or any others being caught...It is about time.  And second, I have spent 4 years working with one of my pitchers and now 2 years with another one about not crow hoping and I can yell at them all I want, but unless they want to change things, they won't...I know from personal experience because I was a college pitcher, that if the umps don't call IP's then why change things?  I got called only about 6 times in 4 years for stepping back off the back of the mound and I did it all the time.  But why change when they aren't going to call it...And no my parents, coaches, or pitching coach didn't teach me to do that either...So some times the pitcher is to blame for their mistakes!
iwitness

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Reply with quote  #8 
UMMMMM...maybe because it's the RIGHT/legal thing to do?? GEESH!!!!
HomeFry

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwitness
UMMMMM...maybe because it's the RIGHT/legal thing to do?? GEESH!!!!

I know it is the right thing to do.  But no one is going to change things if they aren't enforced. That is how kids think these days.  ANd I know that first hand cause I have heard pitchers say it.  Oh and by the way, I don't teach my pitchers to step off the mound either way.  I have spent a lot of time working on them to do it right!
iwitness

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFry
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwitness
UMMMMM...maybe because it's the RIGHT/legal thing to do?? GEESH!!!!

I know it is the right thing to do.  But no one is going to change things if they aren't enforced. That is how kids think these days.  ANd I know that first hand cause I have heard pitchers say it.  Oh and by the way, I don't teach my pitchers to step off the mound either way.  I have spent a lot of time working on them to do it right!


Good for you....for doing the right thing.....kinda...
Mizzoufan

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Posts: 607
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Another whiney thread about rules violators getting caught


Aw c'mon KIR...  if the blues would just close their darn eyes, we wouldn't have to worry about this IP nonsense.
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizzoufan
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Another whiney thread about rules violators getting caught


Aw c'mon KIR...  if the blues would just close their darn eyes, we wouldn't have to worry about this IP nonsense.
I

It took you a year to come up with that snappy response?
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizzoufan
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Another whiney thread about rules violators getting caught


Aw c'mon KIR...  if the blues would just close their darn eyes, we wouldn't have to worry about this IP nonsense.

Wait, I thought that most blues did keep their eyes closed most of the games.  Isn't that what accounts for the horrible strikezones
CoachZ

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Posts: 270
Reply with quote  #14 
For all of you,

  Your "big picture" view is way too small for the good of your sport.  The logic associated with the IP calls went out the window over a year ago, once we moved past the lane violations. 

  First, approximately half of the calls I have witnessed in the past 2 years (though only half) were incorrect calls.  An actual quote from an umpire regarding a called IP (not a warning and yes, a Division I umpire): 

  "your pitcher's pivot foot isn't quite off the ground, but she has too much weight on her front foot"


  Actual game situation, bottom 7th inning, 0-0 game, first runner on third all day.  You guessed it, IP call, game over.  No warnings all game, no mention, no indications.  The umpire then refused to talk to the coaches and left.  

  Now, aside from what's happening at a level where umpires are actually educated and checked on ... consider for a minute what's happening at the youth levels of the game!!!!!!!!!!  So many of these umpires have been watching it on TV and trying to make the same calls and THEY'RE MISSING IT BIG TIME!!!!! Actual Youth Level (travel ball)calls:

1.  "you have to take the sign before you step on the rubber"

2.  "you must step on the rubber with the ball in your pitching hand, not in your glove.  otherwise, you're not 'presenting the ball'".
 
  Also, for those of you that are cheerleading this nonsense, you apparently haven't watched any of these TV games with people who are not rabid fans or family, but are perhaps just mildly interested in our game... you know the ones, potential converts for us!  After one of these debacles, they're not even mildly interested anymore.  I'm glad that as a former player, current or former coach, or parent of a current of former player that YOU are interested in watching our sport.  Considering the fan base and financial support that we LACK at the highest levels of our sport, don't you find it a bit short-sighted to have such an appreciation for would-be fans watching us fight amongst ourselves??!?!?!
 
  I'm not disagreeing with calling pitchers for rules violations, but it is completely out of hand and not well-regulated at more than just the Division I level.  Altogether, it is making a mess and a mockery and hurting all of us in terms of building a bigger fan base.  Because, if none of you have figured it out, until we get more than just moms, dads, boyfriends, and girlfriends in the stands ... our sport will continue to flop at the highest levels.  Outsiders are not showing up to watch this mess and we need them!

  By the way, I get it, everyone should play by the rules.  However, my last point is that the spirit of the rule is so that a pitcher does not gain an "unfair advantage" over the hitter.  If you can truthfully tell me that a kid whose weight transfers too quickly to the stride leg (actually taking power away) thereby allowing the pivot foot to break contact for a gap of two inches really affords her more power, then I'll just assume you haven't watched many power hitters.  I know I haven't seen many who get their back foot up in the air well before contact and produce an unfair amount of power. 

tman

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Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #15 

Then the coaches, who are the rules committee, need to change it! Thats the only way the pitching rules can be changed.  We cannot leave it up to an umpire to decide if he or she thinks a pitcher is gaining an advantage!  The umpire can only follow the rule book and the rule book states that these particular pitches are illegal.  Again, no we all know that it is not called consistently but that is a whole other issue.  The coaches seem to have a big problem with this leap issue and want the rule changed.........wait,,,,,,,or is it only the coaches who have illegal pitchers on their team....????? hmmm

dew1162

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Posts: 20
Reply with quote  #16 

While I agree that the pitcher is losing power from her legs and shredding her shoulder in the process,  the advantage is gained when the pitcher lands 6in to 1ft closer to the plate upon delivery.  Try it.  Stand on the rubber and push off the rubber landing on your left foot (or right foot).    Then, "leap" off the rubber landing on either foot (with that back toe off the ground).  Measure the difference.  DeAnna Earsley.

UCLADreamin

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Posts: 826
Reply with quote  #17 
If I thought about the total number of IP's called in Div. I then I could likely ask myself this question: How many HPBs have there been this year? 

From the "tough to sit through" to the 'painful to watch," all it is is some food for thought. 

I do think there are moments in key match ups where the outcome is too often determined on the IP count. That's when I get visibly annoyed by it. (And oh yeah, do I ever make myself look loony--- I scream at the TV! )

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2011: Epic again!!
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #18 

Again, reduce the penalty to a ball only, with the batter also having the option to select the result of any ball in play, and this issue pretty much goes away.  Stop advancing base-runners.

keepinitreal

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Posts: 19,137
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Again, reduce the penalty to a ball only, with the batter also having the option to select the result of any ball in play, and this issue pretty much goes away.  Stop advancing base-runners.



WOW!! I agree with Dewey.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Prowler

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Posts: 1,159
Reply with quote  #20 
Just the opposite: increase the penalty.

Dramatically.

Three IPs in one game and the pitcher is ejected.

Three ejections and the pitcher is suspended for a month.

One more after returning from suspension and the pitcher is out for a full calendar year.

If this was installed as the new rule at the end of the 2011 season, every coach in the country would decide maybe it's worth teaching pitchers to stay within the rules. You wouldn't see any ejections because those who struggle so mightily at being legal would find quickly that they can adjust.


irishmafia

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Posts: 171
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Again, reduce the penalty to a ball only, with the batter also having the option to select the result of any ball in play, and this issue pretty much goes away.  Stop advancing base-runners.

 

F.Y.I. 

 

This was proposed this year in ASA and was rejected by consensus.  I believe the reasoning was that if the penalty was so light, the pitchers would not worry about it and throw them with the intent of gaining an advantage.  And if it gets called, big deal it is only a ball on the batter.

 

However, it should be noted that the automatic base does cause some umpires to hesitate.

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