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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #121 

I don't KNOW it, but it would be sort of irresponsible to do it any other way.

I am guessing a lot of walkons or books kids. I.E. a lot of players from very well-to-do families.

It will skew toward normalcy with each ensuing year till the 2021 season, when it is totally settled in to a dozen.

 

Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #122 
A lot of private schools have large endowments and are very generous with needs based financial aide for students who qualify.  Since needs based aide and athletic scholarships cannot be combined at a lot of colleges, there is a good chance some players would qualify for more needs based aide than the amount of athletic money the coaches could offer.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_JAD
A lot of private schools have large endowments and are very generous with needs based financial aide for students who qualify.  Since needs based aide and athletic scholarships cannot be combined at a lot of colleges, there is a good chance some players would qualify for more needs based aide than the amount of athletic money the coaches could offer.
Point taken... with 4-5 athletic schollys employed a team would largely be made up of very wealthy families, OR impoverished ones. Like with a lot of other programs in society, a significant donut hole not making attending as easy for the middle
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #124 
Softball isn't the kind of sport that lends itself to having a lot of kids qualifying for need based financial aid.  The weeding out for softball based on income starts early when families of modest means realize that travel ball costs much more than they can afford and low cost local options aren't competitive. 

Our family actually went through the need-based qualification process with a mid-major D1 private academic school that is in the same ballpark as Duke in terms of cost.  I think the coach knew it was a hail-mary because we went to their camp half way through dd's junior year after the coach committed athletic money and probably even a lot of non-athletic money to other recruits.  They did offer some significant grant money but even with that it was going to cost almost twice as much as it would have just to send dd to a state school and not play ball at all.  I know their interest was strong because they spent a lot of time with us and made a strong appeal to the value of their school's education but ultimately we just couldn't justify the cost.  I do have a lot of respect for the coach for not altering any deals he made with prior recruits to accommodate my dd though.

It would seem a lot more likely to find a player willing and able to pay full freight at Duke than qualify for need based money.  I know of a kid like that who's parents could afford to send her anywhere that's committed to Stanford.  Good kid but not the kind of softball talent out of HS that would warrant an all-expenses paid to a PAC12 school but could develop into a good player for them.  Hopefully Duke has a few kids like that on their roster but I seriously doubt they have 6-8 like that.

While it may be irresponsible to commit more than about 4-5 of your overall athletic scholarship money to your first class would that be more irresponsible than having a tiny roster with no depth in your first year?   
 


3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #125 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
Softball isn't the kind of sport that lends itself to having a lot of kids qualifying for need based financial aid.  The weeding out for softball based on income starts early when families of modest means realize that travel ball costs much more than they can afford and low cost local options aren't competitive. 

Our family actually went through the need-based qualification process with a mid-major D1 private academic school that is in the same ballpark as Duke in terms of cost.  I think the coach knew it was a hail-mary because we went to their camp half way through dd's junior year after the coach committed athletic money and probably even a lot of non-athletic money to other recruits.  They did offer some significant grant money but even with that it was going to cost almost twice as much as it would have just to send dd to a state school and not play ball at all.  I know their interest was strong because they spent a lot of time with us and made a strong appeal to the value of their school's education but ultimately we just couldn't justify the cost.  I do have a lot of respect for the coach for not altering any deals he made with prior recruits to accommodate my dd though.

It would seem a lot more likely to find a player willing and able to pay full freight at Duke than qualify for need based money.  I know of a kid like that who's parents could afford to send her anywhere that's committed to Stanford.  Good kid but not the kind of softball talent out of HS that would warrant an all-expenses paid to a PAC12 school but could develop into a good player for them.  Hopefully Duke has a few kids like that on their roster but I seriously doubt they have 6-8 like that.

While it may be irresponsible to commit more than about 4-5 of your overall athletic scholarship money to your first class would that be more irresponsible than having a tiny roster with no depth in your first year?   
 


no... this is the process the first few years
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_JAD
A lot of private schools have large endowments and are very generous with needs based financial aide for students who qualify.  Since needs based aide and athletic scholarships cannot be combined at a lot of colleges, there is a good chance some players would qualify for more needs based aide than the amount of athletic money the coaches could offer.


The private school coach I mentioned in my previous post would put every recruit through the needs based qualification process to see if that was an even an option.  Anyone know if this is standard operating procedure at Duke?
Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #127 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
The private school coach I mentioned in my previous post would put every recruit through the needs based qualification process to see if that was an even an option.  Anyone know if this is standard operating procedure at Duke?


Do not know standard operating procedures at Duke, but it would make sense for any coach at a school that offers significant needs based financial aide to ask every recruit to go through the process of determining how much they would qualify for.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #128 
Seems it better to use needs based funds first to save the athletic dollars. (i guess schools can do that)
TruDat

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Reply with quote  #129 
Here's how I understand this. If a school gives need based funding, these dollars are viewed as no different than athletic scholarship dollars to the NCAA. Otherwise, you could recruit a dozen "poor" kids and another dozen "athletic" scholarship kids and have twice as many full rides as another school. Softball is an Equivalency sport and the need based aid counts for that.
lurker123

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Reply with quote  #130 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruDat
Here's how I understand this. If a school gives need based funding, these dollars are viewed as no different than athletic scholarship dollars to the NCAA. Otherwise, you could recruit a dozen "poor" kids and another dozen "athletic" scholarship kids and have twice as many full rides as another school. Softball is an Equivalency sport and the need based aid counts for that.


I think you've got it wrong. Needs based aid would only be a counter if you tried to add athletic aid on top of it - I think. Anyone who attends the university is eligible for the needs based aid.

Anyone can walk on and tryout for the team if the team holds an open tryout. It would be insane for a coach to say, "you can't play for my team, because your needs-based aid would count against my scholarships and you have to give it up to play softball."
scfastpitch

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Reply with quote  #131 
TrueDat posted : Here's how I understand this. If a school gives need based funding, these dollars are viewed as no different than athletic scholarship dollars to the NCAA. Otherwise, you could recruit a dozen "poor" kids and another dozen "athletic" scholarship kids and have twice as many full rides as another school. Softball is an Equivalency sport and the need based aid counts for that.


I don't believe you're correct on this . Might be true for head-count sports , but not equivalency sports . Baseball is certainly an equivalency sport , and this is exactly what some coaches are complaining about concerning schools that have a lot of endowment money , and therefore a high income ceiling for need-based money .  
BigTenSoftball

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Reply with quote  #132 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker123


I think you've got it wrong. Needs based aid would only be a counter if you tried to add athletic aid on top of it - I think. Anyone who attends the university is eligible for the needs based aid.



This is correct. Need based money only counts as athletic money if you are offering athletic money on top of it.
Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTenSoftball


This is correct. Need based money only counts as athletic money if you are offering athletic money on top of it.


Which is probably why a lot of schools will not allow you to combine needs based money with athletic scholarships...
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #134 
That was my understanding too, that you could stack need based with non-athletic money but not on top of athletic money.  The coach I referred to has been with that school a long time and been very successful there so I believe the strategy was to run everyone through the need-based process first to see if a recruit qualifies and if they do use non-athletic money to come up with whatever else, if anything, is needed.  The athletic money would then be saved for the recruits that don't qualify for needs based funding.

I could see why coach Young hasn't come around to this as of yet at Duke as it is a time consuming and intrusive process that requires recruits families to submit detail financial information as well as tax returns.  You may run a few recruits off by starting with this first but it also lets a coach know how badly a family wants to send their kid to their highly regarded academic school.
TruDat

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Reply with quote  #135 
Thanks guys. I see where I was mistaken. If someone gets only need based financial aid and is therefore not a Counter, it doesn't count as equivalency money. So the trick would be to not mix the two. If you are pretty far under 12 scholarships, it might be to your advantage to mix the two to get the athletes you really need.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #136 

http://theacc.com/news/2017/11/8/big-ten-acc-softball-challenge-matchups-set.aspx

Tallahassee

FSU/Notre Dame/Michigan/Minnesota

Chapel Hill

North Carolina/Pittsburgh/Wisconsin/Illinois

Raleigh

N.C. State/Louisville/Northwestern/Ohio State

Atlanta

Georgia Tech/Boston College/Nebraska/Indiana

Durham

Duke/Virginia Tech/Penn State/Purdue

Sealfinger

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Reply with quote  #137 
ACC or B10: who ya got overall? Agree with the match-ups, in terms of competitiveness?
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #138 
I'll take Big Ten in Chapel Hill and Raleigh, ACC in Tally and Atlanta.... tossup at Duke
midwestfp

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Reply with quote  #139 
A few ACC schedules.  Wasnt able to find 2018 schedules for FSU or UNC.  If anyone else has a link for those, please share.

Here's Louisville's schedule.  Personally I am a bit disappointed with it.  

http://www.gocards.com/schedule.aspx?path=softball
midwestfp

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Reply with quote  #140 
Notre Dame's schedule.  Very tough 7 game stretch beginning with Michigan and ending with Washington.  

http://www.und.com/sports/w-softbl/sched/nd-w-softbl-sched.html
midwestfp

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Reply with quote  #141 
Very impressed with Boston College's schedule.  They had some momentum last year.  

http://bceagles.com/schedule.aspx?path=softball


springball

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Reply with quote  #142 
Here is Virginia Tech schedule.Pretty good out of conference 

http://www.hokiesports.com/softball/schedule/
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #143 
UVA's spring schedule isn't very impressive but there is more info out about the new facility.  From the RFP:

The softball program will relocate from their current home at The Park to the historic Lambeth Field and Colonnade.  The new venue will provide an indoor hitting/pitching facility to provide maximum flexibility for player development.  Other highlights of the project include the following field level areas: team locker rooms, lounge/nutrition area, and a sports medicine room, team meeting rooms, home/visitor bullpens, laundry, and field maintenance.  Coaching and support staff offices will be located on an upper level of the facility. A new press box will be located above the concourse and it will accommodate the PA/scoreboard system, replay booth, and spaces for TV, radio and print media. Upgrades to the surrounding site and access road will be necessary to better facilitate pedestrian and vehicular connections to the stadium.   
 Construction is anticipated to begin in spring 2018 and will need to be completed by 2019 season play.  The adjacent Lambeth Field Residences will remain open throughout construction. 

https://www.fm.virginia.edu/docs/fpc/ads/2017/RFP17-103SoftballStadiumLambethField.pdf

2018 Spring Schedule:

http://www.virginiasports.com/sports/w-softbl/sched/va-w-softbl-sched.html

outofzone

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Reply with quote  #144 
UVA's spring schedule isn't very impressive but there is more info out about the new facility.  From the RFP:


Dusty, good post. Hardin is a genius. UVA not going to OK. She's just looking to build off last year & make it back to the ACC tourney. She's got ALOT question marks in her team so what she didn't do was set her team up to fail with a tough schedule heading into her ACC dates. UVA starts off with 21 winnable games. While she's not bragging about her the RPI, I think she's done a good job to build early confidence in Feb & March. 

Unlike Duke who kinda went in the opposite direction. 
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #145 
Genius is a bit of a stretch although I do think it was smart not to schedule beat-down OOC opponents given where the program is currently.  I like that they start with her old school McNeese St, I've long thought a good mid-major program would be competitive in the ACC and that will provide a good measuring stick for where UVA is at the start of the year.

Smarter still was her decision to take as her first P5 HC job a school that's an easy sell for location and academics but so rock bottom in softball and facilities that no one else wanted it so expectations couldn't be lower.  The new facility will be about 2 blocks from the center of campus turning their biggest recruiting liability into a huge asset.  I'm sure they won't tear down the colonnade, a row of Greek style pillars that form a semicircle around the field, so it will be interesting to see how they incorporate that into the facility.
Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #146 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
Smarter still was her decision to take as her first P5 HC job a school that's an easy sell for location and academics but so rock bottom in softball and facilities that no one else wanted it so expectations couldn't be lower.


I wonder if Blake Miller will get a Christmas card from Coach Hardin this year...
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #147 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_JAD


I wonder if Blake Miller will get a Christmas card from Coach Hardin this year...


Holiday Greetings from UT Corpus Christi, The other UT! 

Ok, I got that backwards but thought it would be more fun if Blake sent Hardin a card.  If Hardin sent it the card would most likely be returned to sender either because Blake got fired or the postal carrier couldn't find his office at UTCC.
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #148 
The new UVA facility is not a done deal, getting some community resistance:

Newly-formed plans to construct a softball stadium for the women’s varsity softball team at Lambeth Field have proven to be controversial, as some students and local residents say they believe the University has excluded them from the planning process for the proposed project. The University’s Board of Visitors will be discussing the plans — which are in the early stages of development — at a meeting Thursday.

The good news for UVA softball is that even if they don't build it at the proposed site, the admin does want it at a new location capable of hosting an ACC or NCAA tourney:

The University originally had plans to renovate the existing softball field, but those plans changed when the renovations would not allow the team to host major collegiate championships.

“It turned out that even with the renovations we had anticipated, we could not get that softball field up to competition level, which means we would never be able to host the ACC,” University President Teresa Sullivan said in an interview last Friday. “We would never be able to host the NCAA.” 

 http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2017/12/softball-stadium-planned-for-lambeth-field-stirs-controversy


outofzone

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Reply with quote  #149 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
The new UVA facility is not a done deal, getting some community resistance:

Newly-formed plans to construct a softball stadium for the women’s varsity softball team at Lambeth Field have proven to be controversial, as some students and local residents say they believe the University has excluded them from the planning process for the proposed project. The University’s Board of Visitors will be discussing the plans — which are in the early stages of development — at a meeting Thursday.

The good news for UVA softball is that even if they don't build it at the proposed site, the admin does want it at a new location capable of hosting an ACC or NCAA tourney:

The University originally had plans to renovate the existing softball field, but those plans changed when the renovations would not allow the team to host major collegiate championships.

“It turned out that even with the renovations we had anticipated, we could not get that softball field up to competition level, which means we would never be able to host the ACC,” University President Teresa Sullivan said in an interview last Friday. “We would never be able to host the NCAA.” 

 http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2017/12/softball-stadium-planned-for-lambeth-field-stirs-controversy



Lambeth Field is surrounded by Dorms, School facilities & Fraternity/Sorority Houses. Doesn't look to be a potential burden on any local residential areas. Be sad if they start throwing out bunch of BS excuses or worse, let one sideways neighbor start complaining about their phobia to yellow softballs

Dusty

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Reply with quote  #150 
You say "proposed new stadium" to NIMBY's and they think 50k plus people will be routinely invading their space, tailgating and making lots of noise at all hours of the night.  Most people outside of softball don't realize that 2k is a huge crowd for a college softball game and most games are in the middle of the afternoon. 
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