Ultimate College Softball
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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #121 

I don't KNOW it, but it would be sort of irresponsible to do it any other way.

I am guessing a lot of walkons or books kids. I.E. a lot of players from very well-to-do families.

It will skew toward normalcy with each ensuing year till the 2021 season, when it is totally settled in to a dozen.

 

Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #122 
A lot of private schools have large endowments and are very generous with needs based financial aide for students who qualify.  Since needs based aide and athletic scholarships cannot be combined at a lot of colleges, there is a good chance some players would qualify for more needs based aide than the amount of athletic money the coaches could offer.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_JAD
A lot of private schools have large endowments and are very generous with needs based financial aide for students who qualify.  Since needs based aide and athletic scholarships cannot be combined at a lot of colleges, there is a good chance some players would qualify for more needs based aide than the amount of athletic money the coaches could offer.
Point taken... with 4-5 athletic schollys employed a team would largely be made up of very wealthy families, OR impoverished ones. Like with a lot of other programs in society, a significant donut hole not making attending as easy for the middle
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #124 
Softball isn't the kind of sport that lends itself to having a lot of kids qualifying for need based financial aid.  The weeding out for softball based on income starts early when families of modest means realize that travel ball costs much more than they can afford and low cost local options aren't competitive. 

Our family actually went through the need-based qualification process with a mid-major D1 private academic school that is in the same ballpark as Duke in terms of cost.  I think the coach knew it was a hail-mary because we went to their camp half way through dd's junior year after the coach committed athletic money and probably even a lot of non-athletic money to other recruits.  They did offer some significant grant money but even with that it was going to cost almost twice as much as it would have just to send dd to a state school and not play ball at all.  I know their interest was strong because they spent a lot of time with us and made a strong appeal to the value of their school's education but ultimately we just couldn't justify the cost.  I do have a lot of respect for the coach for not altering any deals he made with prior recruits to accommodate my dd though.

It would seem a lot more likely to find a player willing and able to pay full freight at Duke than qualify for need based money.  I know of a kid like that who's parents could afford to send her anywhere that's committed to Stanford.  Good kid but not the kind of softball talent out of HS that would warrant an all-expenses paid to a PAC12 school but could develop into a good player for them.  Hopefully Duke has a few kids like that on their roster but I seriously doubt they have 6-8 like that.

While it may be irresponsible to commit more than about 4-5 of your overall athletic scholarship money to your first class would that be more irresponsible than having a tiny roster with no depth in your first year?   
 


3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #125 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
Softball isn't the kind of sport that lends itself to having a lot of kids qualifying for need based financial aid.  The weeding out for softball based on income starts early when families of modest means realize that travel ball costs much more than they can afford and low cost local options aren't competitive. 

Our family actually went through the need-based qualification process with a mid-major D1 private academic school that is in the same ballpark as Duke in terms of cost.  I think the coach knew it was a hail-mary because we went to their camp half way through dd's junior year after the coach committed athletic money and probably even a lot of non-athletic money to other recruits.  They did offer some significant grant money but even with that it was going to cost almost twice as much as it would have just to send dd to a state school and not play ball at all.  I know their interest was strong because they spent a lot of time with us and made a strong appeal to the value of their school's education but ultimately we just couldn't justify the cost.  I do have a lot of respect for the coach for not altering any deals he made with prior recruits to accommodate my dd though.

It would seem a lot more likely to find a player willing and able to pay full freight at Duke than qualify for need based money.  I know of a kid like that who's parents could afford to send her anywhere that's committed to Stanford.  Good kid but not the kind of softball talent out of HS that would warrant an all-expenses paid to a PAC12 school but could develop into a good player for them.  Hopefully Duke has a few kids like that on their roster but I seriously doubt they have 6-8 like that.

While it may be irresponsible to commit more than about 4-5 of your overall athletic scholarship money to your first class would that be more irresponsible than having a tiny roster with no depth in your first year?   
 


no... this is the process the first few years
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_JAD
A lot of private schools have large endowments and are very generous with needs based financial aide for students who qualify.  Since needs based aide and athletic scholarships cannot be combined at a lot of colleges, there is a good chance some players would qualify for more needs based aide than the amount of athletic money the coaches could offer.


The private school coach I mentioned in my previous post would put every recruit through the needs based qualification process to see if that was an even an option.  Anyone know if this is standard operating procedure at Duke?
Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #127 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
The private school coach I mentioned in my previous post would put every recruit through the needs based qualification process to see if that was an even an option.  Anyone know if this is standard operating procedure at Duke?


Do not know standard operating procedures at Duke, but it would make sense for any coach at a school that offers significant needs based financial aide to ask every recruit to go through the process of determining how much they would qualify for.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #128 
Seems it better to use needs based funds first to save the athletic dollars. (i guess schools can do that)
TruDat

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Reply with quote  #129 
Here's how I understand this. If a school gives need based funding, these dollars are viewed as no different than athletic scholarship dollars to the NCAA. Otherwise, you could recruit a dozen "poor" kids and another dozen "athletic" scholarship kids and have twice as many full rides as another school. Softball is an Equivalency sport and the need based aid counts for that.
lurker123

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Reply with quote  #130 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruDat
Here's how I understand this. If a school gives need based funding, these dollars are viewed as no different than athletic scholarship dollars to the NCAA. Otherwise, you could recruit a dozen "poor" kids and another dozen "athletic" scholarship kids and have twice as many full rides as another school. Softball is an Equivalency sport and the need based aid counts for that.


I think you've got it wrong. Needs based aid would only be a counter if you tried to add athletic aid on top of it - I think. Anyone who attends the university is eligible for the needs based aid.

Anyone can walk on and tryout for the team if the team holds an open tryout. It would be insane for a coach to say, "you can't play for my team, because your needs-based aid would count against my scholarships and you have to give it up to play softball."
scfastpitch

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Reply with quote  #131 
TrueDat posted : Here's how I understand this. If a school gives need based funding, these dollars are viewed as no different than athletic scholarship dollars to the NCAA. Otherwise, you could recruit a dozen "poor" kids and another dozen "athletic" scholarship kids and have twice as many full rides as another school. Softball is an Equivalency sport and the need based aid counts for that.


I don't believe you're correct on this . Might be true for head-count sports , but not equivalency sports . Baseball is certainly an equivalency sport , and this is exactly what some coaches are complaining about concerning schools that have a lot of endowment money , and therefore a high income ceiling for need-based money .  
BigTenSoftball

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Reply with quote  #132 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker123


I think you've got it wrong. Needs based aid would only be a counter if you tried to add athletic aid on top of it - I think. Anyone who attends the university is eligible for the needs based aid.



This is correct. Need based money only counts as athletic money if you are offering athletic money on top of it.
Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTenSoftball


This is correct. Need based money only counts as athletic money if you are offering athletic money on top of it.


Which is probably why a lot of schools will not allow you to combine needs based money with athletic scholarships...
Dusty

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Reply with quote  #134 
That was my understanding too, that you could stack need based with non-athletic money but not on top of athletic money.  The coach I referred to has been with that school a long time and been very successful there so I believe the strategy was to run everyone through the need-based process first to see if a recruit qualifies and if they do use non-athletic money to come up with whatever else, if anything, is needed.  The athletic money would then be saved for the recruits that don't qualify for needs based funding.

I could see why coach Young hasn't come around to this as of yet at Duke as it is a time consuming and intrusive process that requires recruits families to submit detail financial information as well as tax returns.  You may run a few recruits off by starting with this first but it also lets a coach know how badly a family wants to send their kid to their highly regarded academic school.
TruDat

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Reply with quote  #135 
Thanks guys. I see where I was mistaken. If someone gets only need based financial aid and is therefore not a Counter, it doesn't count as equivalency money. So the trick would be to not mix the two. If you are pretty far under 12 scholarships, it might be to your advantage to mix the two to get the athletes you really need.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #136 

http://theacc.com/news/2017/11/8/big-ten-acc-softball-challenge-matchups-set.aspx

Tallahassee

FSU/Notre Dame/Michigan/Minnesota

Chapel Hill

North Carolina/Pittsburgh/Wisconsin/Illinois

Raleigh

N.C. State/Louisville/Northwestern/Ohio State

Atlanta

Georgia Tech/Boston College/Nebraska/Indiana

Durham

Duke/Virginia Tech/Penn State/Purdue

Sealfinger

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Reply with quote  #137 
ACC or B10: who ya got overall? Agree with the match-ups, in terms of competitiveness?
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #138 
I'll take Big Ten in Chapel Hill and Raleigh, ACC in Tally and Atlanta.... tossup at Duke
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