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Dewey

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In reviewing some of what was written while I was away, I must say I'm in complete agreement with JoiseyGuy when he says the battle lines for our upcoming election are drawn quite clearly.  The candidate's philosophies are completely different and the choices are clear.  That said, the other comments suggesting this Country is as divided as ever is about as inaccurate as can be.  Complete malarkey, imo.
 
Those who say this President has divided this Country cannot be more wrong.  I think these views represent a smaller minority than some might think.  Compared to our divide during the last Administration, we've come miles.  To begin with, I can't think of any policies this President has put forward that Hillary, Bill, or most any other Democrat President wouldn't have done almost identically.  Sure, we'll hear those talk about Obama's demeanor, choice of words, arrogance, or whatever negative connotation they want to place on him but, ideologically speaking, we've achieved exactly what any other Democrat President would have pursued had they been in office.  Hillary wanted an insurance mandate from the get-go and Obama eventually fell in line too.  I can't think of one Obama policy that a former President Bill Clinton would not have similarly supported.  As much as our opponents chastise this President, he took us where most Democrats, and I hope many Independents, wanted to go.
 
Divided?  Nah.  Think back a few years.  This Country was divided over, of all things, torture.  Now I'd say we've put that issue behind us and we surely won't see waterboarding again in our history.  We've come to accept this decision together and the subject is mostly irrelevant, let alone divisive.
 
Could the wars have been more divisive?  Nope.  Soon these too will be behind us and I think most of us have come together in a sense of relief.  Speaking of wars, we were once divided on whether gays should serve openly.  This too is mostly behind us as we appear to have come together in acceptance, (did I read we now have a gay General).  I know, we're still a bit divided on gay marriage but give that a little more time and we'll come together on this issue too.
 
When the financial crisis hit, we came together as a Country with regards to TARP and made the changes necessary to avoid a full on depression.  A Country that was growing apart would probably have failed.
 
Was the AHCA unconstitutional?  Yes, no, yes, no.  Well turns out it is constitutional and I suspect this controversy is moving behind us too.  Our division over the Supreme Court's decision will subside and we'll come together and accept this new law over time.   In fact, I'm confident, by this time in 2016, we'll be discussing ways to make it even better.
 
How about our deficits?  Yes, Democrats were up in arms over a previous Administration that took a balanced budget and helped reverse it's direction with unnecessary tax cuts and unfunded wars.  Fortunately, Republicans were up in arms too and we've come together in understanding fiscal responsibility is nothing to ignore.  Contrary to what others might say, this President is not searching for ways to exploit spending.  As I've said many times before, it's not in a Democrat's best interests to have budget deficits.  The spending most folks despise are those mandated by law as safety nets for our citizens during a time of crisis.  As proof, President Obama made certain his health-care act was deficit neutral as he worked towards taking control of our rising expenditures in health spending in a bold move to tackle our budget woes.  Such a mandated insurance program was once popular on both sides of the aisle and I believe it will be again.  I find the fight over addressing our Country's health care needs to be less of a divided Country and more about one side using this window of opportunity to gain political advantage by suggesting we're throwing money down the toilet rather than reigning in our spiraling health care costs.   They're taking advantage of these tough economic times, and our lack of revenues, to make it sound like we're in a spending frenzy.  Simply isn't true.  Funny thing, I heard tonight that Ryan's budget doesn't balance until 2030-2040.  I'm confident Obama has a similar or earlier target as well.  Recovering from our near collapse will be a long term process for sure but we'll come together to resolve it.
 
Some will not like me saying this but I agree with those who say there's a percentage of people, (I like to believe it's a very small percentage), who cannot accept a black President.  That said, if and when Obama wins in November, the race, or ethnicity, of our future Presidents will forever be but a small blip on a very large screen.  Yet another end to another divide, however small it might be.
 
No...in my opinion the Country is nowhere near as divided as we once were.  Those who claim otherwise, mostly based on a universal health plan, are simply blowing things way out of proportion.  Civil war, violence, a Country on the verge of collapse...all a bunch of talk in this poster's opinion.  Instead, as I see it, the division you see is in the Republican Party as they fight over compromising to move this Country forward or to take this once in a lifetime opportunity to strip a financially strapped Government to the bare bones.  That's a battle our friends on the Right will have to work out.  I suppose if you listen to me debate a Tea Party individual here at UCS, it appears to be an extremely divided Country but, based on everything I just mentioned above, such a conclusion would be folly.  Once Obama is re-elected, there will be little choice other than to see the two sides work together to improve the economy much faster.  No more birther talk, Socialism rubbish, or threats of violence.  We'll just grow more together as a Country and resolve the issues that need addressing.  At least that's what I think.  
 
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #2 
As fhoenix often says:

smh
masare

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Dewey, that was well written...thanks.  I'm afraid that misc. is completely one sided...the rants are extensive.  There are a few who post some thoughtful words but for the most part it's just more of the "annihilation of anyone who doesn't hate president Obama and hooray for the haters"!  This is not what I hear when friends or colleagues engage in discussions...nor is it what I read or watch in news sources. 
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
This is not what I hear when friends or colleagues engage in discussions...nor is it what I read or watch in news sources. 


No offense, but that probably has to do with your choice of friends, your profession, and which news sources report what you believe.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks masare.  To be honest, there are few political exchanges in my life outside of here because some folks just get too emotional.  You're correct, this forum is mostly one sided, and quite emotional too, but it allows for the other perspective to be presented without a commercial break, an interruption, or a risk of bothering those who don't want to hear it.  If they're not interested in the perspectives of others, simply stay away.  Our many unregistered readers can now read what we have to say and come to their own conclusions.  That's good enough for me and besides, this will all be over in 84 days.  I still say few people will hang around and bash a lame duck President just for the purpose of bashing.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #6 
" To be honest, there are few political exchanges in my life outside of here because some folks just get too emotional."

One reason you're so clueless....Obama has divided this country and the battle-lines are drawn......America's freedom is at stake....The Government giveaway programs will be restructured into something which makes sense.....The tax rates will be dropped....The burden will be lifted from the middle class....And, Obama can openly put his arms around his reverend Wright once again and go back to being a community activist back home wherever that is.....The prodigal son will have returned....
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
  My experiences are exactly the opposite of Dewey's.


You lost me.  Are you talking about circles for discussing politics?  What's your thoughts on this forum as a place to read the perspectives of others?  Good?  Bad?  Neither?  I'm curious.  I can quietly learn what is in the heads of many people on the other side of the aisle and I'd be interested in what better ways there are to form opinions than reading what others think and say, particularly when you can chime in if you wish.  I suppose this deserves a thread of its own.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #8 
OK. 
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #9 

Some people on left said bush divided the country. Some people on right say obama divides the country.
Some people said bush didn't like black people. Some people say obama favors black people.
Michael moore made movies about Bush misteps. Palin movies were made in anticipation of her running in 2012.
Every election the side that lost is unhappy and will complain about it the entire time their guy is not in office. Happened with Bush and happening with obama.....it will happen with romney. No president will unite america in our age of self-importance, social media, twitter, facebook, blogs, political pinheads paid to fan the flames of division via radio/tv/internet, complain about everything that we don't like and blame all problems on "them". People don't want a better america--they want their vision of america. Period. No compromises.


Talk of the country dividing has happened with other presidents. It seems "bigger" now because social media gives everyone a soapbox. In the past people had to go outside during lunch break or their day off and speak on a real soapbox to crowds--now it is effortless as they sit from home or work and do it in seconds reaching thousands to millions of people via the internet.

We hear more of the complaining because of our social media. People are more likely to complain than praise. If your cable or phone service is great do you call to tell them "good job"? But when your service sucks you let them know and tell them to fix it. Same with politics. We are quick to vent. Bush was first president to get the full internet treatment as facebook started to grow, cell phone shrunk in size and grew in power, and political pinhead shows became popular. Now with smartphones, tablets, streaming, etc. from any and everywhere you can let people know how you feel in seconds and you can follow those who feel the same. It will be worse for romney and even worse for president after him.

And replying to "people vote for someone based on factors other than their ability to do a good job"--- There were blacks that voted for obama because he was black. I know several that did. There were whites who would not vote obama because he was black. Know a few of those too. There are women that would support a woman. Majority of gays would support a gay presidential candidate and there would be people that would not vote for a gay candidate for president. An atheist would lose some christian votes and gain wiccan and other votes.
Romney being mormon will get him votes from people that will vote mormon and he will lose some that won't support a mormon...the plus side outweighs the down side--same with black candidate or woman candidate...you attract more votes for than votes lost. People voting party lines are no better than someone voting for someone because of race, religion, gender, sex preference. I am not voting against obama...I am voting for romney. I didn't slam him in favor of santorum nor gingrich or flavor of the moments cain, perry and bachmann. So I am not "anyone but obama". If that were the casse i would vote a 3rd party candidate. Which i would have done instead of voting gingrich or perry if they had won.

 


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #10 

The country will always be divided on sex preference, abortion, religion, and that their solution is the right one and an opposing one sucks....doesn't mean the next civil war is coming. People talk a tough from behind a screen while typing and this should not be taken as them willing to go out and physically do anything...especially not risk their lives. Most talking tough won't do military service or civic duty so they aren't locking and loading and doing anything unless it is on Xbox 360 call of duty game.
Internet breeds rambos...as long as they can type fight. A civil war isn't happening because america political division cannot split the country geographically into 2 seperate countries. If america had another civil war we would end up divided like africa. The continent of africa has 54 countries/nations. We would be the Divided states of america and each state would be recognized as it's own nation and several states would band together to form their own unions and confederacies. States would have birder cities break off to form on their own (because it wouldn't stop with states---cities would also break free of states). And when the states and cities reform other countries will jump in to stake their claim and pick sides (just like france and england did during civil war)....except this time mexico and canada will be involved and some northern states and cities could float towards maple leaf. Other countries don't have civil wars without other nations (like the usa) getting involved so we know if usa, england, or canada had splits others would get involved. And enemies of america would rejoice. Terrorism from terrorist groups and now american terrorists would increase. The might of america would be severely watered down and our way of life would change. Pro sports would all change. College sports would drastically change. Politics would drastically change. Media and tv would change.
Nothing would be the same. No.....civil war is not happening....just people venting, protesting and complaining about "them" screwing up america. The battle lines are drawn in the internet sand.


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix

 No.....civil war is not happening....



Precisely and, like I said, we're less divided than years past, imo.  We'll get through it all and there's no need to be running around in fear.

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #12 
Actually, I thought that there was much more use of "fear" as a political tool in the last three elections (pre emptive strikes for example).  Karl Rove was a master of "fear" in politics. The only "fear" tactic that I have noticed lately is that SOCIALISM (Cold War Communism)  is going to take over the United States of America.  Of course we could have learned from the "Domino Theory" that led us into Vietnam or the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that led us into Iraq.  As a nation, we do tend to respond to fear.  

  Unlike Charlie, I haven't experience any fear in the last four years except the fear that the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations have dumped on me as the federal debt grew and grew, although I disagreed with our excursions into Iraq and Afghanistan at great loss of billions of tax dollars and much too much blood of our young servicemen and women.  And the results????  We have gained what?   And the price???  Fear is a terrible motivating factor, but an effective one.  If you don't vote my way, the sky will fall on you and your children.       Frank

PS - My only real "fear" is that whoever is elected will not lead a crusade to eliminate corruption and thievery in government by instigating effective oversight.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
vol52

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Reply with quote  #13 
Has the political rhetoric of today changed much from the past?  From the year 1800:

Thomas Jefferson was attacked by ministers who accused him of being an "infidel" and an "unbeliever." A Federalist cartoon depicted him as a drunken anarchist, and the president of Yale warned that if Jefferson came to power, "we may see our wives and daughters the victims of legal prostitution." A Connecticut newspaper warned that his election would mean "murder, robbery, rape, adultery and incest will openly be taught and practiced" - though the paper (now the Hartford Courant) did apologize some years later.


and

John Adams, the sitting president in 1800, also got hit with his share of slung mud. James Callender, a journalist in league with Jefferson, told the country that Adams was a rageful, lying, warmongering fellow, a "repulsive pedant" and "gross hypocrite" who behaved neither like a man nor like a woman but instead possessed a "hideous hermaphroditical character." There was also a nasty rumor that Adams had sent his veep to Europe to bring back four mistresses, two for each of them.

______________

Steve Rhodes

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
  My experiences are exactly the opposite of Dewey's.


You lost me.  Are you talking about circles for discussing politics?  What's your thoughts on this forum as a place to read the perspectives of others?  Good?  Bad?  Neither?  I'm curious.  I can quietly learn what is in the heads of many people LMAO on the other side of the aisle The Psycho-analyzer and I'd be interested in what better ways there are to form opinions than reading what others think and say, particularly when you can chime in if you wish. 
I suppose this deserves a thread of its own.  Name the thread, "How I Baffle Them with Bull Feces"


Let's just say that as far as future personal security is concerned I've never felt more frightened as I have the last 3.5 years.  No kidding I've never heard anyone say things so opposite to my beliefs than Mr. Obama. More than ever


Divided more than ever, wake up and smell the coffee!!



__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #15 
wow Dewey. You think Obama has united our country? With his rhetoric on class envy/class warfare, war on women, calling everyone racist when they don't agree with his socialist policies, etc...
Obama's strategy is to divide this country into groups based on color, religion, income, age, sexual preference, gender, and everything else he can think of. Then he tells each group how they have been a victim of the other groups and the only thing that will help them is a government program.

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #16 
I just wonder how much of everyone's fear is fact-based.  Many of my relatives send me emails with their comment "this is so scary" and then the email is pure BS about Obama.  The emails blame Obama for everything under the sun that they think is wrong with our country.  I would hope most UCS members are better informed, but based on some of the stuff that has hit the board, it looks like they have been sucked into these bogus emails sometimes, too.  The internet is a great thing, but it has destroyed politics.  Thus he reason for all the internet hoax sites, fact-checking sites, etc.  One must do his/her homework before believing anything they read on the internet, especially in blogs and emails.
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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #17 
Grizzly - I've reread my original post and agree with it even more today.  Once again, you have the strategy of the President all wrong but that's for another day, (not sure how you got inside Obama's head to know what his strategy is but when I asked you to get inside Bush's head to explain his deficit strategy, you couldn't).

Anyway, back to the divide.  You can see many issues that previously divided us are slowly disappearing and we're back to the most famous two....women's right to choose and those who like President Obama versus those who don't.  In fact, we're not even divided on the Republican nominee for President because, as I understand it from everything I read, very few of us are actually "for" him.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #18 
We're very divided on wanting a socialist Government....
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #19 
people wake up.
if Obama wins,  we will be known as UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA.
if you want to be a socialist vote for Obama.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #20 
"hideous hermaphroditical character".

Man, those guys had a way with words. Wish we still talked like that - that's awesome.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #21 
Country is more divided now than it has been for a long time!  Maybe since the Civil War.
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Susan
fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #22 
More divided than ever? Those who died fighting the civil war would disagree.

America was divided on staying loyal to england or rebelling.
America was divided on staying loyal to union or rebelling.
America was divided during 8 years of Bush...only thing that changed was point of view. Those defending government during Bush are now attacking it and those who attacked Bush are now defending Obama.
America has been divided over civil rights, women rights, gay rights, prohibition, anti-war and race riots, vietnam and other wars (americans were divided over fighting germany and entering wwII until pearl harbor years later). 

Social media makes us think it is more divided. We have blogs, radio, political tv, magazine, ezines, facebook, twitter, etc. and everyone can gripe 24/7 at any place at any time. Pick up your smart phone and share your feelings.

And the money is in the medicine not the cure...so political pinheads wil fan the flames of division. It is how they make their living. To listen to both sides talk on tv and radio you would not want to vote republican nor democrat. Like voting between getting punched in the stomach by a pro boxer or kicked in the stomach by an MMA fighter.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #23 
fhoenix - Precisely.  As I pointed out in another thread, all the budget resolutions since January of 2011, including all the discretionary spending, including the deficit projections and new debt estimates that accompanied them, were signed off on by both sides of the political aisle.  We're divisive only until we come to a consensus.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #24 
fhoenix - Again, brilliant !!!  Some people are so focused on the ant that they can't see the ant hill.    Frank
PS - Once again, however, I will say that politically we are too much PARTY and not enough NATION in our perspectives and actions.   And in our current state of affairs, it might be the HAVES versus the HAVE NOTS.  

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #25 
Hammer - That's just much too general and too slanted a vision.  Obama is not a Socialist, but he will incorporate some aspects of socialism as did FDR to meet head on the financial situations that our nation faces.    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #26 
Bluedog - Wasn't Jesus Christ a Socialist???   Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #27 
Frank, Obama's father was a socialist.
i have not read Obama's book,but people that have read it say he is.
rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #28 
Too many people speaking with the wrong end of their body to make any sense.
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I voted for Trump. 
10er

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Hammer - That's just much too general and too slanted a vision.  Obama is not a Socialist, but he will incorporate some aspects of socialism as did FDR to meet head on the financial situations that our nation faces.    Frank
Frank & which of Obama's few accomplishments & more so repeated goals & promises are not socialist? He is a socialist, what I don't get is why he just doesn't admit it & see if the voters support him. I have a thought that maybe there are many out there that like his socialist ideas.

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big 10-#1
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10er

He is a socialist, what I don't get is why he just doesn't admit it & see if the voters support him.


This line is repeated so often inside here that it begs for me to repeat my same question.  Tell me what President Obama has done, Socialist wise, that is any different than what a President Bill Clinton or a President Hillary Clinton would have done if they were in office.  If one is unable to name a distinction, then the Socialist label is either an extremely unfair one or you believe all Democrats are Socialist. If it's the latter, then I have to question why this President has been singled out for criticism.
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