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GoYard

Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 1,291
Reply with quote  #1 
Thoughts & prayers going out to the families in Newtown CT.  Reports are now saying at least 26 killed, including 18 children.  This is so tragic.

Edit:  News sources are now saying 20 children and 6 adults.  Plus the shooter.

Confusion about the shooter being Ryan Lanza or Adam Lanza.  All this could change, so we'll have to wait for more definitive information.
Dewey

Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 16,516
Reply with quote  #2 
This is horrific.  I didn't realize so many had been killed.  This is heartbreaking. How does a community ever recover from such an incident?  Our thoughts and more must be with these fellow Americans.  Simply devastating.
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #3 

.......
Sandy Hook Elementary School

Reports are still at 18 children and 8 adults dead.

An entire classroom of students remains unaccounted for, according to a report by The Hartford Courant.

The suspected shooter, the father of a student there, was also killed, CBS News reported. The principal and school psychologist were among the dead, CNN said.

...................


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
pabar61

Registered: 07/07/11
Posts: 3,406
Reply with quote  #4 
Praying for the victims, their families, and everyone at the school who endured this.  So incredibly tragic.
jayrot

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 13,115
Reply with quote  #5 
Kids age 5 to 10.  How can anyone even in a crazy state of mind justify even thinking about walking into an ELEMENTARY school and shooting kids.  Really?  As someone stated on facebook: "Dear America, we are broken."
BillSmith

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 5,611
Reply with quote  #6 
A tragedy to be sure.

Don't try to understand "crazy". The price we pay for freedom is the occasional sacrifice of the innocent, so that we ALL can act as we wish. A very, very large price to pay for that freedom. Be it war, terrorism or violent acts such as this, it is a necessary evil.

We are bowed, but not broken. Be braced, but without backlash.

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Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #7 
The shooter has been identified. He was 24.

Mom was a teacher at the school. She was shot and killed at the school.


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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
jayrot

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 13,115
Reply with quote  #8 
Hasn't been taken down yet, but as fhoenix has stated, he has been identified.

https://www.facebook.com/rlanza
jayrot

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 13,115
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith
A tragedy to be sure.

Don't try to understand "crazy". The price we pay for freedom is the occasional sacrifice of the innocent, so that we ALL can act as we wish. A very, very large price to pay for that freedom. Be it war, terrorism or violent acts such as this, it is a necessary evil.

We are bowed, but not broken. Braced, but without backlash.


Luckily we can disagree.
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #10 
Ryan Lanza was from of New Jersey. A dead body has also been found in his parents’ home, officials said. Lanza’s body was found in the school.
Reports state he went into the classroom where his mom was teaching and shot her and the kids that were in her class. He walked into hallways and principal and 2 others walked out o their office and he shot them.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
ForeverInBlue

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 5,657
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrot
Hasn't been taken down yet, but as fhoenix has stated, he has been identified.

https://www.facebook.com/rlanza


You guys sure about this? Hearing the abhorable MSM blew it again going with this guy.

The guy in the photo posted to hisFacebook that it wasn't him, then closed his account.

http://ow.ly/g79cf


Leaking his name was bad, but not nearly as disgusting as interviewing schoolchildren on the scene.


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#MakeDCListen #End Socialism #NoDems #2016 #ForAmerica
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #12 
Fox news, cnn, and msnbc have all interviewed parent and children.
Fox news had megan go into "this guy must be atheist" and MSNBC went into guns and that the guy is a republican. CNN has so far kept all politics and issues out of it except that a crazy man killed his parents then other kids at a school shooting. Now every shooting, mental illness, and other expert are on channels talking about it. I don't know what they are saying because I have it on picture in a picture with sound off while watching espn.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
BillSmith

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 5,611
Reply with quote  #13 
jayrot,

Excuse my optimism.

__________________
Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
jayrot

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 13,115
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrot
Hasn't been taken down yet, but as fhoenix has stated, he has been identified.

https://www.facebook.com/rlanza
You guys sure about this? Hearing the abhorable MSM blew it again going with this guy. The guy in the photo posted to hisFacebook that it wasn't him, then closed his account. http://ow.ly/g79cf Leaking his name was bad, but not nearly as disgusting as interviewing schoolchildren on the scene.


Supposedly the picture and FB account are the brother of the actual shooter (the picture/fb account were of Ryan, who is the brother of 20yo Adam).  So yes, it was botched all the way around.
jayrot

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 13,115
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith
jayrot,

Excuse my optimism.


It's not the optimism that bothers me in the slightest.  It's that the optimism isn't shared by everyone else.

Saying freedom comes with the price of violent acts seems a little less optimistic.  Especially when those violent acts to the masses seem to be picking up a little more steam.  We live in America, and as Americans we could have it so much worse that we currently do (even in this state of economic downfall), and the fact that anyone thinks this is the only sure way of ending their problems is sad.  The fact that there aren't people out there that show this kid enough love to keep him from doing this is sad  (or do we think that these people are just born this way and aren't molded by the environment around them).  Yes, there are many many great people out there, but when society is letting down those people who need the help mentally like the Aurora shooter or the Newton shooter then it is sad.

Not saying you did this, but when outsiders attack America is spoken about in the same breath as Americans attacking Americans that doesn't equate to me.
BillSmith

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 5,611
Reply with quote  #16 
"...or do we think that these people are just born this way and aren't molded by the environment around them."

What do you believe?

__________________
Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
jayrot

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 13,115
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith
"...or do we think that these people are just born this way and aren't molded by the environment around them."

What do you believe?


Personal opinion is that their environment and those surrounding them aid in sending these people over the top.  Is that riding the fence, enough?     But really, I think all of us are born with the ability to "come unhinged" but it is the environment we are raised in, the environment that we surround ourselves with, and how we are taught to react to positive and negative events in our life that cause us to create our own existence.  I feel that in our current environment the world oftentimes forces us to deal with our lives individually and if we cannot do that then we are weak or incapable of being a successful person.

Although you didn't ask this part, I do think that the current environment/economy has us all so focused on ourselves and making sure we cover ourselves that we forget to step back and survey everything around us.  Again, all of this is informed by my own experiences, and my own way of handling situations. I do often have to remember to step back and take in the whole picture.  I have to remind myself that I need to talk to those around me (whether I have time for it or not, or whether it directly benefits me or not).  Like my neighbors.  Our lives have little in common, but understanding and hearing their lives makes for a better representation of what the world currently is beyond just myself.

How do you view it some 300+ miles further north than I am?
BillSmith

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 5,611
Reply with quote  #18 
I like your view regarding taking the time to "Know thy Neighbor". Had a professor that rued our path of living in a world that increasingly became more steeped in secondary relationships.

Don't know that my more northern climes give me a differing view, just like you, my experiences color my kaleidoscope.

Crazy is crazy. Can conditions tip an individual? Sure. But crazy is crazy. Can fence them in, can take away sharp objects, can reduce opportunity, but...CRAZY IS CRAZY.

A problem is deciding on who is crazy and the parameters in which crazy exists. Given my experience, I'd rather endure the slings and arrows than have them taken from all crazy persons. If that makes me crazy, then consider my point taken.

My plea would be simple. Judge not the course for this nation by the actions of a crackpot. Prohibiting things and behavior has not shown to be effective. For those that doubt me, I give that period of American history named such, Prohibition.

Regarding the lack of care and nurturing for those who might be disturbed. A noble cause. In any specific case, such as what unfolds today, I could never say whether a shooter was a product of environment versus being genetically, poorly wired. You are right that more can be done to avoid individuals feeling this disconnection, however, in my opinion, nurture does not overcome nature.

Don't know if it is happening more often. Don't have those statistics. Modern media feeds us more, unsure whether it is more or just more focus and volumes of delivery. Question whether the perpetrators are getting younger, therefore, sadly, their targets are ones of opportunity. Hard to wrap your mind around that much angst being built to such a rolling boil in such a young person, but such is crazy.

__________________
Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
sbmom1812

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 3,002
Reply with quote  #19 
Prayers for all those involved.  Very sad.
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Susan
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #20 

Selfless: Victoria Soto threw herself in front of her first grade students and was killed as a result

She was 27 and been a teacher at the school for 5 years.



Principal Dawn Hochsprung

Hochsprung was killed in the shooting, the sound of which was reportedly broadcast over the school's PA system.

Prayers for all the families

__________________
‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
masare

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 2,575
Reply with quote  #21 
Why would a hunter need an automatic rifle? Start by banning automatic weapons to minimize the violence that happened to those poor families in Connecticut! Please take some kind of action to stop the slaughter of innocent people!
sbmom1812

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 3,002
Reply with quote  #22 
How bout looking at the moral and mental decay.  A gun doesnt kill, people kill.
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Susan
masare

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 2,575
Reply with quote  #23 
"How bout looking at the moral and mental decay. A gun doesnt kill, people kill."

Yeah but how's that argument working for us so far?
bhblue

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 1,212
Reply with quote  #24 
masare - Where have you heard that these were automatic? It seems you're ignoring the"semi" prefix or ignorant as to its meaning.
mikec

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2,472
Reply with quote  #25 
This is just beyond horrible. When I first heard the news yesterday, it was about 3, and I was on the way to pick up my own kids after school. I had to pull over and collect myself for a few minutes before I could gather it together enough to pick them up.

I've coached several hundreds of kids over the years, and lost one a few years back. Her death caused my own daughter to quit softball, and to even not go to her sister's games, in TB or college, for about 5 years. It was hard for me, too, to step back out there, but we had to go on, for the sake of everyone else. At nationals, my daughter's first college game, HS state playoffs, or any other big SB moment, as a coach or parent, I always take a moment to reflect on this girl, who was taken early, and didnt get to experience those things in this life. She was not on my team when she passed, but her coaches pulled themselves together and moved on in a graceful, dignified way, and helped her teammates go on as well. There is just no way to make sense of losing someone like this.

While none of us are over it, we have been able to move forward with time. I still get tears in my eyes when the song that was played at her wake comes on the radio. Yesterday, I prayed that she help to comfort these children that have joined her in heaven. Knowing her, and her amazing personality, wonderful smile, and love of life, I know that she is doing just that. God I still miss that kid, and always will.

I don't know how a family, or community, recovers from something like this, but I pray that they do. I know It will take a lot of time.

Let's take a moment and keep these children, administrators, teachers, their families, and their community in our thoughts and prayers.

Masare - why you don't make a new thread to discuss gun control. Trust me, I will be more than happy to engage you in that debate, but not in this thread.
GrizzlyFan

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 1,522
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
Why would a hunter need an automatic rifle? Start by banning automatic weapons to minimize the violence that happened to those poor families in Connecticut! Please take some kind of action to stop the slaughter of innocent people!

mass air, I knew we could count on you to exploit this situation to further your political cause. But since you went there let me point out a couple of inconvenient truths for you.

1) Those were not automatic weapons that he used.
2) All of the recent gun violence has happened in "gun free" zones. Thus the killers knew there would be no deadly resistance. (So how are those "gun free zone" laws working out for you?)
3) Guns are not just for hunting, they are for protection.
One thing that keeps bad guys from breaking into my house is that they know they will be greeted by a 9mm semi automatic full of hollow points. You take away our guns and we are all sitting ducks for those who ignore the law.

I believe that a country that has moved away from Christian principles and moral absolutes and shifted to indoctrinating kids with moral relativism is much more to blame for this violence than simply having access to guns.

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
vol52

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 834
Reply with quote  #27 
I sat with the paper this morning reading about yesterday's tragedy and trying to comprehend the reality of it all through the pictures on the front page. We all mourn the loss of these innocent children and adults, and I ponder the innocence of childhood that has been ripped from the surviving children, never to be replaced.  I move on to the opinion page, and there is an article written about the plight of the Palestinians in the Gaza strip and the human death toll that has occurred...1,477 children since 2000. Unfortunately, similar stories from across the world are easy to find.  Unfortunately the new reality is that yesterday's tragedy reinforced on our society is much more commonplace in many parts of the world.  We will read and discuss the pros and cons of gun control, the ethnic strife in Africa, or the conflict in the Middle East ad nauseam.  I have no solution to this sad state of affairs other than to get on my knees and pray for peace.
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Steve Rhodes
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #28 
His mom owned guns and he took her guns and killed her with them and then took them to the school and shot up 5-10 year old and even reloaded to keep shooting them.
It isn't about automatic weapons...and it isn't about gun-free zones. A criminal attacks when you are vunerable. Putting keys into the car, tying your show, talking on cell phone, using laptop or tablet, walking, jogging, working, washing your car, etc. People aren't walking around with their guns in their hand but the person wanting to rob or shoot you has his out. Criminals know their target and when they will strike....victims do not. The element of surprise.

Of course an elementary school is a gun-free zone. 5 year olds aren't going to have guns and the staff that stepped out to see what was happening or protect the kids got shot. Have security check visitors as they come in. Many high schools have metal detectors and scanners for anyone coming in. A church is not a gun-free zone and people have been attacked at churches since firearms were invented. Even this year.
There have been shootings at military bases and those are not gun-free. Look at all the co-worker mass shootings at post offices and offices and stores. Some of the victims were armed. Some were gun-free and some were not. Note in most of thise situation the shooters had on body armor. The reality is Criminal Intent does not care if zone if gun free or not...they are not thinking as a normal rational human being....they will take body armor and a weapon with a faster rate of fire and spray areas if they have to. Look at the Tucson shooting of Giffords and others at the supermarket. Some armed people did not pull out guns. The retired 74 year old army colonel who was shot and tackeled the shooter was armed. An armed man from a store next door ran in and was on fox and friends talking about how he ran in and saw a mn with a gun and started to shoot him but grabbed him instead....good thing since that man had just gotten the gun away from the shooter Loughner. Several others said they didn't know if there was a second gunman and some sad they heard there was...who is shooting people and who is there to help? You don't know if someone with a gun out is friend or foe during a mass shootout....especially those coming from outside to help which is why non of them fired.

Gun control is not the issue. He took the guns from his mom and killed her with them then used them to kill others.
Guns aren't the issue...crazy people are. And we have to stop with confidentiality for these mentally unstable people. I hate hearing after the fact that these killers had known mental issues as if that excuses it. If they are so mentally bad off they can snap and kill people then it should be known and their access to places and things should be limited and monitored closely like people on probation (where they live, have to have a job or be in school, no firearms, etc). Don't blame guns--blame crazy. And anyone who can shoot a bunch of kindergarden kids and reload to shoot more of them was sick and crazy.

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‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
fhoenix

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,891
Reply with quote  #29 

All of the victims were women and children. The kids were all age 6 or 7 and the six adults were all women.



In memory of the victims of this tragedy

CHILDREN

Charlotte Bacon, 2/22/06, female (age 6)

Daniel Barden, 9/25/05, male (age 7)

Olivia Engel, 7/18/06, female (age 6)

Josephine Gay, 12/11/05, female (age 7)

Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 04/04/06, female (age 6)

Dylan Hockley, 03/08/06, male (age 6)

Madeleine F. Hsu, 07/10/06, female (age 6)

Catherine V. Hubbard, 06/08/06, female (age 6)

Chase Kowalski, 10/31/05, male (age 7)

Jesse Lewis, 06/30/06, male (age 6)

James Mattioli, 03/22/06, male (age 6)

Grace McDonnell, 11/04/05, female (age 7)

Emilie Parker, 05/12/06, female (age 6)

Jack Pinto, 05/06/06, male (age 6)

Noah Pozner, 11/20/06, male (age 6)

Caroline Previdi, 09/07/06, female (age 6)

Jessica Rekos, 05/10/06, female (age 6)

Avielle Richman, 10/17/06, female (age 6)

Benjamin Wheeler, 9/12/06, male (age 6)

Allison N. Wyatt, 07/03/06, female (age 6)


ADULTS

Rachel Davino, 7/17/83, female (age 29)

Dawn Hocksprung, 06/28/65, female (age 47)

Anne Marie Murphy, 07/25/60, female (age 52)

Lauren Russeau, 1982, female (age 29)

Mary Sherlach, 02/11/56, female (age 56)

Victoria Soto, 11/04/85, female (age 27)


__________________
‎"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
ForeverInBlue

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 5,657
Reply with quote  #30 
Fhoenix, Agree 100% with the mentally unstable issue. I would like to know what meds these kids are on... When I read the side efects of some medication s I am appalled... Depression, severe depression, suicide, hallucinations, death, etc. America is pumping our children full of dangerous drugs. If one out 10,000 or 100,000 or 1 million has a severe negative reaction they are capable of anything.

Someone has to do in depth study of these perpetrators as a collective. Medical history, drug history etc.

The BigPharma lobby will contest any finding, the same as the NRA opposes gun control. But I don't think the Bill of Rights will protect drug companies, which have run amok in recent decades. Coincidence?

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